nutsaboutfishing

An end to carp?

40 posts in this topic

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 4:06 PM, big Neil said:

Here's something I can get my teeth into. Several things will (most likely) happen when the virus takes effect.

The numbers of Carp will be greatly reduced = pluses and minuses. Water turbidity will be reduced and there will be more food available to other fish sharing the water. HOWEVER, for the fish that have Carp as part of their natural diet (ie Murray Cod, Yellopwbelly), there will be fewer Carp there to be eaten. Outcome = more predation on their own species, resulting in fewer Cod and Yellowbelly.

One thing is for sure. We can't sit back and do nothing about the plague proportions that Carp have achieved, it will continue to get worse. Carp will never be eradicated completely. It's difficult to say what the short term outcome will be in respect of other species. It's even more difficult to say what the long term outcome of Carp reduction will be. 

The entire Carp problem was started by mankind, now it's time to do something about putting the problem right.

I've read all the preceding comments and there's a very healthy discussion thread happening. I trust the research, which has been done,IMG_5818 (1280x960).jpg in regard to crossover to native species. Japan and Israel have been using this virus for 6 years or so with no such problems reported. Time will tell. So what's next...eradicate Trout and Redfin? 

If Carp do become more difficult to target and catch, we'll definitely be missing out on one of the best freshwater fighting fish that there is. That part will be unfortunate, but hey, who knows what the future has in store. Keep the commentary going people. Good topic this one. BN

I think massive native fish kills are likely if this virus is released and an adequate clean up plan is not in place. If the virus works as stated and kills within 48hrs there will mountains of carp piling up daily. Whilst this problem maybe easy to overcome around towns. I think in remote areas the problem could become a totally different beast,with piles of dead fish choking up waterholes and poisoning the water. Possibly resulting in the death of large stretches river in inaccessible areas(the areas we want to fish in). Human and stock health issues could also occur.

"Eradicate Trout and Redfin "

Tricky one this. I think it depends what sort of inland waterways we're after. If we want native fish to return in numbers then they must be removed. Both species are aggressive predators that our natives don't have the instincts to cope with. Trout were responsible for the near extiction of many species natives, including. several species of galaxia,pygmy perch,macquarie perch, grayling and trout cod long before the carp showed up. Both species would be relatively easy to control with a virus that kills redfin already existing which knocked around European populations in 80s/90s. Trout being very temp sensitive  (die at 24c). So cutting dam releases during summer and a decent drought should almost see the end of them.

If we don't care that much about native fish stocks and want invasive species in our rivers. We should be prepared to put up with trout and not much else in our cooler rivers with masses of redfin and a small population natives in our warmer ones. Maybe we should just fill the joint up with "cool" invasive species like nile perch, tigerfish and peacock bass and be done with it. The fishing will then be the best it's ever been. Plus think of the tourism jobs. 

Carp make the longest sustained runs of any southern freshwater fish hands down. Although big mullet run faster.Fish light and you'll be in for a serious fight. Sight fishing to big fish in shallow water is something that will convert the most ardent haters.

just my opinion. What do you guys think?

Matt

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G'day Matt. You've constructed a very good doco there with lots of viewpoints. Every viewpoint we put forward is a complex combination of what is now and what may be in the future. As anglers we are always very interested in what we can target today and fewer of us are overly concerned about what will be there tomorrow... although this is changing quite rapidly among younger anglers. Yet the time is upon us to start thinking seriously about what we want from our waterways, in the forseeable future. However we (anglers) have limited clout in the decision making process...though we do have some. Certainly we are led by scientific research when we are informed about the IMPACT that various species are having within our waterways. We have to trust the information which we are given in relation to (say) Carp. Few would argue that they are prolific and can survive where other species may not...but we can only believe what we're told about their impact on other species.

I read somewhere that there would be controlled introduction of the herpes virus for the Carp populations. My understanding (from what I read) was that a smallish area would be targeted. After release and subsequent death of the Carp in that area, the dead fish would be cleared before moving on to the next area. I believe the clean up would be done by volunteers (angling clubs, etc). It's quite a while ago that I first read of the virus and I don't know where the information came from. Suffice to say that I didn't imagine it (lol).

With regard to eradication of other species, I think it would be very wise to see what impact there is AFTER the Carp are reduced, before any assault on other species. The balance of co-existence of the many and varied species needs to be assessed on an area by area basis because each area will have its own unique combination of species and environmental circumstances. It's true that an assault on Trout or Redfin would have serious impact on the economy of some areas. This is probably not the case with Carp as few anglers target them on a regular basis. Carpathons and the like excepted!

Personal experiences where I regularly fish (Murrumbidgee River) would indicate that there is nowhere near the numbers of Carp being caught by myself or others in recent times. In fact it appears that they are merely an occasional by catch of fishing for native species, nowadays. Obviously I can only comment on the 80 kms or so that I fish regularly. Why this is so, I don't know?As far as I know the Carp virus hasn't been introduced here (yet). Definitely there's an increase in the numbers of native species in my region and other factors may play a role in maintaining that statistic (blackwater, salinity, etc) in the future. Neil

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if this virus could possibly kill other species I would say no..but I think they have tested it fully..i have never seen redfin in any waterway where I have fished so I cant comment on them..one river I fish has carp to the headwaters and is dirty thru the whole system.another I fish has carp up to natural falls and none above so far..clear water all the time..i have seen the natives thriving in both so the cod and goldens in my clear river obviously don't need carp to survive..the amount of small fish I seen on the wknd was amazing..also tiny cod that make the population look so healthy its not funny..the only thing missing in my spot is large fish which I think are being taken by bait fishos during holiday periods..the carp in the downstream section are huge and in large numbers I would love to see them gone or thinned out at least .in my opinion the river would come back to its previous years of quality when I first fished it 35 yrs ago before carp were  a problem and the water was clear     ......next

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G'day guys

Still can't see how they are going to clean up the dead fish. Contolled releases may seem like the answer but I can see how they can work in REALLITY.

 How big will the sites be? Sites will have to be small enough that the carcasses can be collected before they foul the water. Even small sites will require serious man power. Maybe too much work for the local lions club and a few volunteers.

 How will the virus be contained? This is going to prove almost impossible. Birds are believed to transfer the virus between carp populations in Japan. Some clown will transport infected fish to his local river or dam.

How will inaccessible areas be accessed? Just getting people in and out of some areas will be almost impossible without choppers. And some of the wetland areas will just be impossible. 

How will unseen carcasses be removed? When most fish die they sink , bloat then float. This will leaves large numbers stuck in snags,undercut banks, tree roots and the miles and miles of blackberry and lantana that line some waterways. These fish will be almost impossible to remove and if left will foul the water.

 Time is another problem. By the time the controlled releases are completed there will be another population of resistant back at the first site. Time to start again with a new strain of virus that will need all the same testing as this one.

As much as want to see the back of carp I'm starting think this may be a dangerous waste of money. But given the track record of the bodies involved I'm probably wrong and they've thought of all senarios.

 

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i might be wrong but I don't think 47million carp are going to die instantly all over the country and foul every waterway they are in...I would think over a lengthy period the dead fish will dissipate..i don't recall millions of rabbits laying all over the countryside when mexo or callici was introduced...panic is not needed in this scenario..a calm approach and some more information from relevant bodies might be the best bet..rick

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You make some valid points Matt and I understand your concern about ridding the affected areas of the dead fish. Two things I'd like to say about the points which you make.

1  Nothing is perfect when it comes to issues like the reduction of the impact, a species has on a particular environment. I'm sure the authorities charged with responsibility for this process have thought of these concerns (and others) and done whatever is humanly possible to overcome these issues. Sure some areas may be TOO DIFFICULT to effect reasonable control measures...maybe they will not attempt to reduce Carp in these areas. Remember the process is about eradicating the impact of a pest, not exterminating a species.

 

2  NATURE. Nature, in all its wonder has provided answers to problems which we humans create. The freshwater systems have "built in" cleaning systems. These come in the form of shrimp, yabbies and crayfish. Their purpose in the big picture is to help keep the rivers and dams clean by eating anything that is dead in the system. Who knows? Maybe all the dead Carp will (inadvertantly) increase the populations of Natures cleaners.

Just my thoughts.

PS I went out fishing last night, with a mate. He told me that there were 800 Carp caught in the Annual Fishathon...and less than a 100 Cod. I don't fish that area, but where I do fish it's the other way around. Stacks of Cod and an occasional by catch of Carp. Go figure??? BN

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As much as I support the virus I feel it is 30 years too late and believe now the ecosystems have adapted to the carp so I am unsure on the effect it will now have...

On the carp being a great fighting fish or not so great, have you ever caught one on lure with bass gear? When the bass shut down the plastic bugs come out for sightcasting carp. check out "windsor bait and tackle" youtube channel, full of videos targeting them and the fight they put up...(Note: thats not an advertisement just simply a youtube channel to watch).

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I fish for carp on occasion, pulled in a few 4kg plus on 4-6lb line. Loads of fun!

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Posted (edited)

IMG_4443.JPGWas working in Tamworth for the last couple of days and spotted this in the local shop.

since I am going to be working there for the next 2yrs on and off, might have to have a crack.

i spotted heaps of carp from the Dam wall and most were massive 60cm or more with one that had to be easily 80cm, to bad it's illegal to fish at the Dam wall as these carp know they are safe.

 

Edited by jeffb5.8

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Get rid of the filthy things, rotting carcasses is the big worry. In terms of the balance of native fish stocks, the eco system will re-balance, nature always finds a way. Spotted carp(trout) should be eradicated as well........(that will get a few going :ph34r:)

I couldn't disagree more about them putting up a good fight, I've caught hundreds of the things on both bait and sight casting with lures. You can knock over 6-8 kg carp on 8lb braid and a 3-5 kg stick in no time, after 1 or 2 short runs it's like hauling in a wet blanket. 

I think the simple fact is that we all need to live with the idea that the cat is out of the bag, they are here and unlikely to ever be successfully removed unfortunately........

 

 

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4 hours ago, Saboo said:

Get rid of the filthy things, rotting carcasses is the big worry. In terms of the balance of native fish stocks, the eco system will re-balance, nature always finds a way. Spotted carp(trout) should be eradicated as well........(that will get a few going :ph34r:)

I couldn't disagree more about them putting up a good fight, I've caught hundreds of the things on both bait and sight casting with lures. You can knock over 6-8 kg carp on 8lb braid and a 3-5 kg stick in no time, after 1 or 2 short runs it's like hauling in a wet blanket. 

I think the simple fact is that we all need to live with the idea that the cat is out of the bag, they are here and unlikely to ever be successfully removed unfortunately........

 

 

Hooray, finally someone agrees with me about Carps fighting abilities (or lack of it). Was starting to feel lonesome ........thanks Saboo :D

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Carp are no kingfish but name any southern native that pulls much more than 10/15m of line. 8 kg carp will pull any bass backwards.

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1 hour ago, Mr Mullit said:

Carp are no kingfish but name any southern native that pulls much more than 10/15m of line. 8 kg carp will pull any bass backwards.

 You're not going to encounter an 8kg bass obviously so no way you can use that comparison! 

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2 hours ago, Mr Mullit said:

Carp are no kingfish but name any southern native that pulls much more than 10/15m of line. 8 kg carp will pull any bass backwards.

Power to weight ratio mate, no comparison.

I've been owned by bass on the same gear i've man handled carp on.

Anyway not looking to start anything, intersting to hear everyone's opinions. 

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No dramas mate . But this was about losing the hardest fish to fight. Not the hardest fighting fish pound for pound. So with 15+kg carp out there that get angry when you hook em. There is no comparison. What area do you bass fish in man? I do a fair bit on the south coast and in the hunter. Take it easy. Matt

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