outdoors

Back into fishing and losing lures like crazy when surf casting

24 posts in this topic

Was hoping for some friendly advice...

Today was the first time I've fished in about 20 years and it was fun, but expensive given I lost 3 lures in about 1 hour of fishing!

It went something like this....fished for 30 mins and everything seemed alright with a 70g Halco. Then it seemed like my rod got hungup mid-cast and the lure sailed off into the distance without my line following.  I was quite surprised by this and it looked like the line had failed at the braid (possibly at the braid to fluoro leader). I tied a FG knot on the beach with a 60g Halco but lost that straight-away on the next cast. It seemed like something similar had happened. This was frustrating so I decided to change knots in case that was the issue. The knot I used was an Albright Special which I found on an animated knot website.  Next cast I lost a 55g lure. At this point I figured I was doing something wrong and decided to head back to do some further investigating online.

The gear I'm using is a 12ft Daiwa crossfire surf rod, Shimano Baitrunner 6000 OC, 20lb braid, 30lb fluorocarbon for the leader. The leader was about 1.5-2 rod lengths. There is probably about 250 yards of line on the reel. 

When it comes to casting, I'm definitely not the smoothest so I wasn't sure if perhaps I'm doing something that is causing the line to break? There didn't seem to be much difference in the way I was casting at the start and the later part when I was losing all of the lures. 

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

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how old is your braid..it might be failing no matter what knot you use..also check your guides to make sure they are not cracked especially the tip ..this will cut your line in a blink..rick

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Hi mate, albright is what i use when joining braid to leader,

Reckon your leader is too long, make sure the albright knot is not on the reel when casting as it can get caught in the roller on the reel as its coming through.

i like the knot a couple inches out of the reel when ready to cast then the knot doesnt have to come off the reel at a right angle before going through rod guides.

pretty sure thats your problem, also lubricate that knot and tie it down tight, then trim tag ends as short as you can, tighter knot can handle short tags and will run through guides nicely.

hope this helps.

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Yep definitely the leader is too long as Hooked-up says. Good advice from Rick too. Check and double check the line AND the rod. Your "rustiness" at casting shouldn't be too much of a problem, if everything else is ok. BN

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Thanks Rick, Neil and Hooked-Up

I only just bought the line and couldn't see any kind of manufacturing dates on the packaging. I also checked the guides which don't seem to have any defects. 

Yes, I don't thinking I was cutting the tag ends very short so I'll have to improve in that area. Browsing online it seems like some people use nail clippers which might be better than what I was using. When tying the knots I've been wetting them but will need to the double check the tightness and that they have formed correctly. 

The last lure I lost, I am pretty sure I did use a shorter leader and from memory it was sitting just off the reel. However, I tied the leader knot under torchlight in the dark and it was the first time tying it, so I guess that could have been the reason there.

Will head out there again after practicing my knots and with a shorter leader for sure.

Unfortunately, and I didn't mention this in my original post but the other thing I did was to accidentally crush my rod in the front door when I got home! What a rookie mistake! Not sure if I can get a replacement top half piece (as it is a two piece rod). The rod is intact but the tubing has been split for about an inch and a half or so. If not, I guess I'll probably have to bite the bullet, get a new one and put it down to a learning experience. 

Thanks, for all of your help. 

 

 

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Hi Rick

Just thought I'd let you know that I did a test on the braid by tying it to some weight plates. Even though it is supposed to be 20lb line it broke every time when trying to lift an 11lb plate off the floor. I didn't go to a lower weight than that.  This was using unused line straight from the pack so it isn't rod related or due to poor treatment on my part. Pretty disappointing when you can't trust a product and I'll have to take it back to the shop.  

Thanks

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try a few different knots and see if it still does it  ..not good considering if you stayed connected to your lures longer you may have lost a good fish to bad line..hope they replace it for you mate..rick

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Easiest fix is to not run the leader through the guides. Just give yourself 1-2 metres of trace, won't make any difference to your catch rate or cast distance. I do this with some of my heavier spinning setups as the FG knot still gets caught after a while.

The other option is to change to a rod that has a larger diameter end guide.

the other option is to downsize your lures (marginal difference).

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25 minutes ago, flatheadluke said:

Easiest fix is to not run the leader through the guides. Just give yourself 1-2 metres of trace, won't make any difference to your catch rate or cast distance. I do this with some of my heavier spinning setups as the FG knot still gets caught after a while.

The other option is to change to a rod that has a larger diameter end guide.

the other option is to downsize your lures (marginal difference).

I agree with what flatheadluke has said. Try a shorter leader that doesn't need to run through any guides. I do a hell of a lot of beach spinning and have found the short leader makes no difference to the strike rate, even when using fluoro braid.

Give it a try and at least you'll know if its your knots or your guides.

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Thanks guys, sounds like a good suggestion to use the shorter leader and I'll give that a go. 

I managed to return the line and the man in the shop thought it looked a bit thin. So, maybe there was some kind of mistake where the wrong type of line was in the pack! I bought some J-Braid 8x and comparing it to what I had before, it does seem much thicker. 

Now, I've just got to work out what to do with my slightly crushed rod. I'll try a home repair (thread and epoxy) before I give up and replace it. 

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If you could not lift even 11lb plate  - may be the problem was a braid (not a knot). With 12ft rod and  a good cast - the braid might not have been strong enough to hold the heavy lure.

As others mentioned - I  keep the leader short enough to avoid the knot touching the guides when casting. And I had a similar experiece when I purchased japanese fluoro leader with no word in English. The leader broke easily well below the expected rating when I tried to dead lift the fish.  

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42 minutes ago, savit said:

If you could not lift even 11lb plate  - may be the problem was a braid (not a knot). With 12ft rod and  a good cast - the braid might not have been strong enough to hold the heavy lure.

As others mentioned - I  keep the leader short enough to avoid the knot touching the guides when casting. And I had a similar experiece when I purchased japanese fluoro leader with no word in English. The leader broke easily well below the expected rating when I tried to dead lift the fish.  

Japanese line ratings break much closer to their stated weight comparatively to the lines we have here. 
I bought a 10lb power pro line from japan and it had the diameter of about a 3lb power pro here.
I guess their system makes more sense, a 10lb line breaking at 10lb, where as our 10lb breaks much higher than the rating. 

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make sure you double pass the the braid through the original loop of leader when you start the knot I had the same issue when starting with braid and fluro and this seemed t fix it 

another thing is to avoid whip casting the sudden crack of pressure can seperate even the best tied knots

dont overshorten your tags leave a couple of mm 

and as preiously stated shorten your leader any catch while casting and a lure of that weight will sail off into the unknown

 

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Thanks for all the advice.

Went out today and fished for twice along as previously but this time didn't lose a single lure.

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30 minutes ago, outdoors said:

Thanks for all the advice.

Went out today and fished for twice along as previously but this time didn't lose a single lure.

Have any luck?

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Posted (edited)

Got one undersized flathead that had to go back to the sea, that was on a 55g Halco twisty.

It's getting dark pretty early so I'm thinking I might have to get some dark purple or black lures to supplement the small number of metal lures I currently have. From what I understand, they're supposed to stand out better (?). Was just checking through previous posts in the forum to see what people's recommendations are.

Probably the best news was that my rod repair seemed to be pretty good and held up fine.

 

Edited by outdoors
spelling

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Posted (edited)

When the light goes you want to switch to a bait like a pillie on a 4 hook gang (you can have the 4th hook as a stinger on shorter baits). Either soak it or slow retrieve(lightly or unweighted) works.

Edited by flatheadluke
Typo

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What do you think about soft plastics with an attractant such as s-factor at night? 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I thought metals with an attractant or even smeared bait on it would still be effective

Edited by ARC H
typo

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Softies with scent work at night. Try fishing with another side by side and see who outfishes who.

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On ‎27‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 8:04 AM, outdoors said:

What do you think about soft plastics with an attractant such as s-factor at night? 

 

 

I have noticed a difference fishing at night with hardbodies  smeared with s-factor so plastics shouldn't be any different more importantly look for a light source any predators hanging around light are there to feed on the bait brought in by said light

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Most likely this:

On 5/24/2017 at 5:49 AM, rickmarlin62 said:

how old is your braid..it might be failing no matter what knot you use..also check your guides to make sure they are not cracked especially the tip ..this will cut your line in a blink..rick

I always run long leaders anywhere from 1- 5 to metres for all my outfits (from 3lb to 50lb), so i don't think thats an issue - as long as you're using a suitable knot for line size and trimming your tag ends close (especially the mono) then it shouldn't be an issue.

I spin with 30lb braid & 20lb fluoro leader off the beach, i use a double uni and this casts through the guides fine without any clunking (though any leader over 20lb, i use an FG). I also run 50lb braid with 60lb leader and connect via an FG, 

Personally i'd give 20lb leader a go for that outfit, knots will be less bulky and it will be enough for any salmon/tailor + you can tie the quick and easy double uni.

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Thanks Macca,

After trying out a few different knots for tying leaders on, I've pretty much settled on double uni knots and the occasional FG knot like you had mentioned. They seem to be working really well and haven't had anything fail.

The suggestion on going towards lighter leader sounds like a good one. I had to buy some more the other day and went up to 40lb because that was on sale. There was quite a bit of difference in tying this compared to the 30lb stuff (it was considerably harder) so next time I think I'd just get skip the sale price and get exactly what I want.  

 

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