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  1. 5 points
    hi all been getting a few Luderick in the Harbour lately got 4 this morning at Cremorne all around 30cm,mainly been fishing around Blues Pt and Mcmahons Pt attached pic was a couple a weeks ago at Blues Pt all caught on weed biggest was 40cm. Cheers
  2. 3 points
    Went to spot x in the harbour to target some calminari and cuttle tried for an hour with the 1.5 jugs no hope on cuttle one small arrow a nice surprise considering we don’t usually get them sent it out live and it was chopped in half about 20min later, switched to the 2.2 and 2.5 jigs fished the deeper water and managed 4 nice calamari and three cuttle fish perfect bait size
  3. 3 points
    Too good a day not to take the boat out. The Mrs who smiled so much her cheeks were aching after spending a few hours with dolphins and false killer whales. The false killers even found a nice little patch of kings, which we saw four holding at one point. Hard taking photos at the same time as driving but managed to grab a few more memories with the old box browny!!!
  4. 2 points
    Just awesome JonD. Being on the water is not always just about fishing is it. The sights we see are sometimes just amazing! Not a great photo on an iPhone but watching this humpback about to launch out the water on sunrise, had me put my rod down and just admire! cheers scratchie!!!
  5. 2 points
    It is part of our lives now whether you like it or not. We did a lap of Australia in our caravan last year. There were many areas in the NT and outback that had no connectivity. I almost lost my sanity being unable to check for info. I could not look at fishraider to monitor things or answer messages. No ability to check weather, find nearest places to get provisions, pre book a park for next stop, pay bills, contact family or any of the dozens and dozens of reasons I use my device for. I have worked with software developers, network specialists, analysts and IT help desk people. The younger ones are keen and bring lots to the table that some of the older guys are not up to speed with. @noelm the digital natives demand 24/7 connectivity. I can identify with your niece. Even real estate and property purchasing now revolves around being in a strong signal area. There is no way I would buy a house in an area with poor internet connectivity. Businesses simply do not survive without web presence now. No one uses a paper phone book and not sure they even print them anymore. We connect with businesses via online searches or recommendation. We just have to keep abreast of it all and not get left behind. Those of you getting the rogue phone calls - get on the “do not call” register. Only accept phone calls from numbers already in your phone. Answer your phone and don’t talk and they will cut the call, your voice activates the recorded rubbish message. Block callers numbers. @the skipper sorry to hear about your son and the Garmin workers. I feel lucky to be retired right now. Stay safe everyone.
  6. 2 points
    Sadly it is usually the older persons who get innocently drawn in to scams. It is the age of technology and many older folk have jumped onboard with the changing times. This is a good thing however they tend to learn how to use a program and learn one way to use it using step by step instructions. They believe what they read online or in emails as they did by reading newspapers and printed books. Some are not early adopters of new ways and will hold on to the old way. They are called Digital Immigrants. Our digital natives, the children born after about 1995 grew up in a digital, media saturated environment. They use the internet, social media and mobile devices in every part of their lives. These folk are not lazy or useless it is the only way they know. They learn differently to us in that they think and process information differently. They don’t have a reference to any other way. Digital immigrants have a foot in the pre internet age and the new digital world. The digital natives are being taught by digital immigrants who speak in a different language. The young folk will not sit for hours in classrooms and absorb information and knowledge. They have grown up with info at their fingertips immediately. The world we live in is very different. The mobile phone started as a phone. Now it is a multipurpose device that we can’t do without. We simply do not need to remember a phone number and if you ask a young person to “dial a number” they will not understand you. Notice how the phone aspect is the last thing you look at when choosing a phone. We buy for the camera quality, size of screen, mobile internet browsing, Bluetooth, synching, touchscreen, health and wellness tracking blah. blah. I rarely use the phone these days unless I intend to have a very long conversation. Most people don’t have landlines anymore. I am a baby boomer but started my interest almost pre-digital. I have worked in Healthcare and digitising of healthcare facilities. I led teams that had to teach nurses how to navigate the clinical workflows on a computer. Some brilliant nurses wanted to resign and ended up championing systems. There are so many aspects in healthcare delivery that have truly been enhanced, improved and made safer using new technology. I can’t imagine how communication would have happened during COVID-19 if it was pre-internet. The best thing is we have forums like fishraider and we all engage with it frequently . I spend lots of time in pms with members showing them how to use the features that they want to use. Long live fishing and fishraider So back to the scammers. Take an older person or someone who is not computer literate and pull them along on the journey. Try to help them with the “new ways” and discuss the way scammers work. Enjoyed this thread 👏👏
  7. 2 points
    Being an IT guy and somewhat "senior" I can see it from both sides, technology doesn't faze me one bit, but in a strange kind of way, it's "dumbing" society down, people can't live without their phone in their hand, not on the bench, or something, but, literally, in their hand, communication skills are dwindling, no one knows a telephone number now, most don't know the street around the corner because they use some navigation device to find directions, spelling and grammar are a thing of the past. Now there might be a slim argument about moving with the times, but, sometimes in life, actually doing something by skill, memory or instinct is necessary, I really don't know how we will be in even a few years time, but it doesn't look good in a lot of ways, I have an iPhone, it's sitting in a drawer, when I go somewhere that might require contacting someone, I take it with me, but most times, it just sits at home, I have survived all these years without the dire need to answer a mindless text immediately, or see a picture of someone's lunch, if someone really wants me, they can contact me, it's been done for decades without gizmos strapped to our bodies.
  8. 1 point
    Went for a quick session after I drop the kids off to school. 1.5hr before and after high tide. Fished unweight. Drifted with school prawns. 2 big bream which went 40+ and 1 that cut me off the rock edge while I was took a phone call🤣 Great day to be out.
  9. 1 point
    Hi All, (Work in progress – putting this in as a placeholder. Also sourcing more photos to insert) Most of my successes with kingfish and jewfish has been through the use of squid as bait. I prefer squid I have caught myself as I know how fresh it is and how it has been handled. My introduction to squid fishing with jigs was pretty basic. I have put in a lot of hours in since then to refine my technique with a few aha moments along the way. I thought I’d compile some of the advice columns I’ve put together into one post. To give credit to those before me, @slinkymalinky did an extremely good article on squidding several years ago which got lost in the site renovation and is still worth reading: To Stefano – thank you for the company on squidding sessions and letting me use some of those wonderful photos. Now for those people who prefer an abridged version in video format there is an excellent one by Yamashita which will cover a lot of information on squid jigging very quickly: While putting this post together I came across an nice article on squidding written several years ago (I don’t agree with the sink rate advice as I think the author has confused it with size but the rest looks well researched) – specifically have a look at the section on retrieve styles. http://www.fishingworld.com.au/news/egi-master Before I get into the details. Squid move around and up and down through the water column. Asking for a squid spot doesn’t really help in that 15 minutes can make all the difference between them being there and the dreaded donut. There are areas in Sydney harbour where I catch them more consistently but it can be 1st cast or cast 100 or somewhere in between. If I really want to catch squid I have to try several of my spots. They have excellent eyesight. They can swim very quickly when they want so if they want your lure they can catch it but the trick is to entice them in. They can be aggressive or timid. Southern calamari seem to travel in twos and threes and of a similar size. Arrow squid I’ve hooked up to nine from what I think was a single school. I can also catch cuttlefish when I need to but I have to use a few of my spots (some of which require water access). SQUID The Southern Calamari (or green eyes). The wings run the full length of the body. Commonly referred to as arrow squid locally the wings only run the top half or third of the hood. Cuttlefish. Have a cuttlebone. Can be a little more rounded and have shorter tentacles compared to their body than the squid. While most of the ones I catch in Sydney harbour are small (up to 15cm) I’ve seen some ones bigger than a football out at the heads. SQUID JIGS Many years ago my local tackle shop was kind enough to arrange a presentation by one of the better known Japanese squid jig manufacturers. They showed us a cloth covered squid jig with a half coin as the weight and stated that it was over 300 years old. The presenter explained the Japanese are so passionate about their squid that they seeded the bays where squid would come with branches from the willow trees as a facsimile for sea grass on which the squid could lay their eggs. The research they have put into the lure design and colours is pretty impressive and that presentation is one of the reason for my bias towards Japanese jigs (as well as lightening my wallet on the night). If it came down to it I believe you could give me any legitimate squid jig and I’m confident enough in my technique that I can catch squid with it. I do, however, have my preferences. From the amount of squid that have gone for my white soft plastics I came to the conclusion a bit of white in the jigs wouldn’t hurt. I also like to have a vibrant colour such as pink or orange to make it really stand out. The clip point should be a solid ring rather than swivel – I’ve lost more squid jigs to the swivel failing over time than snags. I like the cloth covered ones for the tactile feel the squid get with a glow in the dark sub coating to get their attention at night. I want two rows of fine stainless tines as they penetrate better and will straighten on a snag meaning I have a better chance of getting it back. You will see sizes such as 1.6, 1.8, 2.2, 2.5, 3.0, etc. I’ve never found out why but my best guess is that relates to length in inches. Please don’t make the mistake of confusing size with density (or sink rate). I use a series of 2.2 sized jigs which has three different sink rates (slow, medium and fast) for different locations. Typically I find the sink rates for most jigs is around 3 seconds per meter. I’m not a fan of the razorbacks as to me it is extra clutter on the lure and I’m not sure how good the hook up rate is on the spines on top of the jig. To be honest I’ve never given them enough of a chance to come to an fair conclusion so I’d be interested in what the opinions others have of them. Companies such as Yamashita have put a lot of research into which colours work best under specific conditions (e.g. water clarity and light). For some further reading Google squid jig colour chart. Many people have found that changing the colour of a jig has resulted in the squid turning on. I will change out between a few of my more commonly used jigs but won’t bother following the chart. Some people will use scent on their jigs. It is another way of getting the squid interested. It is also another thing to carry and a hassle if it leaks through your gear and it can stain your jigs. I briefly tried some but haven’t put any serious testing against an unscented jig to see if it makes a difference. I’m not saying that they don’t work. There are companies that spend hundreds or thousands of hours developing and testing these products or alternatively just put it out there with the philosophy “build it and they will come”. Most squid jigs will have some sort of glow in the dark capability. Sometimes it is only a small band of luminescent tape and others are glow in the dark from front to back. You can hit them with a torch or street light in the area you are fishing or alternatively consider getting a UV torch as it charges them up several times faster than a normal white light torch. Spot the difference to the photo above. THE GEAR I use 2 set ups for my squidding. The first and my go to is my bream rod: 2-4kg, 3-12gram, 7 foot 6, graphite, 2500 reel, 4lb braid, 8lb leader. The second is if I am fishing a really weedy area and am expecting to get snagged up: 5-8kg, 15-45gram, 7 foot 6, graphite, 4000 reel, 15lb braid, 30lb leader. I use a swivel and duolock clip so I can quickly and easily change out jigs. Over the years I’ve heard people argue that braid with its minimal stretch will result in more pulled strikes than mono. I don’t lose many squid and if I do they were badly hooked in the first place (just a small tip of the tentacle comes back). Playing them with a soft hand makes up for the lack of stretch in the braid and I’d prefer to have the extra casting distance and sensitivity of braid. On the heavier (and stiffer) rod, backing the drag off can help with not losing them. There are specific Egi (Japanese: “squid lure”) rods. These often have a fast action (fast taper so there is a lot of bend in the tip but the body and base of the rod is a bit stiffer) and maybe a softer tip. If squid fishing is all you are interested in then feel free to get one of these rods but a 7 foot light rod will usually suffice. THE RIGS I enjoy the pursuit of squid so am happy to put the time in rather than treating it as a rushed means to an end. I fish one jig at a time attached to a swivel and duolock clip. If I am having trouble finding the bottom I can put a ball sinker in front of the jig. If it is purely for catching bait then you can improve your chances by setting two or three jigs up in a paternoster arrangement. This can work well in current but if you snag up it can be rather expensive. My rig for catching cuttlefish is a swivel then immediately after a small ball sinker fixed to say 10lb line (I friction lock the sinker in place by passing the line through the eye say 4 times), 60cm of line then a slow sinking small 1.6 or 1.8 brightly coloured jig. The ball sinker helps the jig get to the bottom quickly. Once there a small lift gets sinker and jig off the bottom, then lower the rod so the sinker drops to the bottom but the jig sinks very slowly giving cuttlefish and squid time to spot it. Let it sit for say 10 seconds and lift the line again. If you feel a bit of resistance then it can be a cuttlefish in the area so let it sit on the bottom a bit longer. They have smaller tentacles than squid so the smaller jig is required to hook them up more consistently. If you think you are getting hits but not hooking up look for a drop of white goo on the tines. This is a good indicator that it was a cephalopod (usually a cuttlefish) playing with the lure. If you hook up an feel resistance keep tension in the line all the way as you retrieve to prevent them dropping off the tines. You can put a jig (or squid spike complete with dead pilchard or similar) underneath a float as a more relaxed way of fishing. This is also a great way of slowly working across weed beds when you really don’t want to snag up. THE LOCATION Fish areas with weed and sand patches and maybe a little bit of structure. It will be the sort of area bait fish will congregate. If you are at a jetty look for the tell tale black ink marks indicating people have caught them there before. An example of this are jetties or the local baths as the netted structure can hold bait fish You can use tools such as Google earth look for the weed and sand patches as a starting point but there is no real substitute for getting out there and trying under different conditions. TIDES, TIMES, SEASON AND WEATHER My personal experience is that tides in general have little to do with catching squid. Now before I get hammered for this, the whole harbour does not start firing up the minute you get X minutes before or after low or high tide. If that was the case I’d look at the tide chart and head down to any spot by the harbor and catch squid. In specific locations tides may play a part. There might be back eddies which bunch up baitfish encouraging squid to hang around these locations more frequently. The tides do have an impact on where I fish in that the water becomes so shallow I am frequently at risk of snagging up on the exposed weed beds. The squid is both an extremely competent predator but also prey for other species so they have to be a little cautious when hunting – I find I have a little more success at dusk and dawn when they seem to be feeding more actively. Advice I’ve heard before is that from 10am till 2pm they tend to go into deeper water but having said that I’ve caught them all hours of the day. Over the years I've found that I seem to catch more squid in the warmer summer months but consistently bigger squid in the winter months. I've been told that squid don't like the change in salinity after heavy rains and that puts them off. I have a tendency to ignore that advice these days for a number of reasons. Sydney harbour is around 10 to 35 metres deep depending on where you are. The deepest part I am aware of is near pier one at 43m give or take. The average depth is about 13m depending on your source of information. Even allowing for lots of run-off it would take a fair bit of water to dramatically change the salinity of that 13m of water column. More importantly, it is not like they can hop out of the harbour and they still need to eat so a squid jig in the water has a chance of catching a squid. The reduced visibility is a pain but I've still caught squid in the cloudy water we get after really heavy rains. THE TECHNIQUE If you can fish soft plastics then you can fish squid jigs. All the basic concepts are similar. Before I get into this I had an aha moment in a quiet bay in Sydney which dramatically changed the way I fish for squid. I had a size 3 jig on and a rather large squid followed it into the shallows. It grabbed the jig but the slightest movement of the jig saw it being released with the squid backing away slightly. This happened about 5 times. The squid wanted the jig. It was of a size that the jig was no obvious threat but it was still timid. I thought about it then I waited till the squid grabbed the jig again and with a quick sharp snap of the rod tip I set the jig tines, after which the squid was mine. I have seen this aggressive and then timid behaviour multiple times since then and I slow the movement of the jig sufficiently to encourage the squid to grab the jig at which point I set the tines. This method has worked its way into my retrieves. Another aha moment has been that when distracted I have let the jig sit on the bottom a bit longer than usual. It is a pleasant surprise how often the next flick has resulted in some weight on the line which turns out to be a squid. The pause gives them time to grab the jig. You have got your gear, some squid jigs and a viable location and head out squidding for the first time. First thing to check is the sink rate. Let out about 2m of line from the tip of the rod and hold the jig just under the surface of the water. Lower the rod tip quickly so the jig can free fall. Count down the time it takes to get 1m – usually 3 seconds but this can vary. I use slow sinking jigs over shallow weed beds and faster sinking jigs if I want to get down to the bottom quickly. The guideline is fish as close to the bottom as you can WITHOUT snagging up. If it is weedy 3m underneath the surface then you can count down say 6 seconds and stay above the weed. If you are fishing beyond the weeds in slightly deeper water and a sandy bottom you can let it reach the bottom. Thus if I am fishing water I think is about 10m deep I count to 30 or a little more with my 3 second per meter jigs. If you lift the jig back off the bottom say 1m then allow at least 4 seconds for it to get back down to the sandy bottom. The jigs are designed to land nose down with the tail swinging slightly in the current. Very tempting for a squid to ambush and grab. When I started, the easiest way to fish a jig was to estimate the depth of the water, cast out, count down the lure (or watch for the sag in the line just like when fishing plastics) till it hit the bottom and then use a medium paced lift with about 1 to 2m of rod movement to get it off the bottom, reel in the slack as you lower the rod and then count it down to the bottom again. Repeat until the squid jig is at your feet. If there are weeds or snags in front of you lift the rod tip high and then retrieve the last part at a faster rate to clear the snags. Watch behind your jig as you bring it up as they can be following. If they do then pause the jig to allow them to grab it. Turn it side on to the squid to expose the body and give the squid an easy target. I find giving it the smallest of intermittent twitches lets them know your jig is still active but you need the pauses to give a hesitant squid the chance to strike. When they have the jig and short sharp flick of the jig will set the tines. Fan your casts out and work an area. Change jigs and work the area again. If nothing happens then the squid are not there or not interested. Move to the next area and repeat the process. Squid have good eyes and can swim quickly so as I got better at it I started to change the retrieve to incorporate more movement to get their attention. That is, a double flick and pause to let it get down to the bottom. These days I use a subsurface walk the dog action which involves a short triple flick which imparts a darting motion (both up and down and sideways) to the jig and then pause to let it slowly settle and allow them to grab it. The next set of flicks has the additional benefit of setting the tines if they have grabbed the jig without me being aware of it. The Japanese use a retrieve which incorporates a very vigorous sweeping movement of the rod. The theory behind it is that it gets the squid's attention and revs them up - you can find demonstrations on the internet or the Yamashita video link above. When winding in keep steady pressure on them but allow a bit of flex in the rod and your hand movements. Do not jerk the rod as you can pull the jig. They tire easily so you will get them in sooner or later. I lose very few squid on braid and that is only if they are barely hooked. When they are in close I make an assessment of how to land them. When touched they will often startle and ink. If you get inked it is not funny. If your mate gets inked it is the funniest thing ever. They need water in their jet to be able to expel ink so if you can pick them up without scaring them and lay them head down the water will trickle out. If they are hooked well enough so I can dead lift them out of the water I lower them down to about 10cm above the ground and time their spin so the jet is pointing away from me as I lay them down. Using a landing net is one of the surest ways of getting them if you come from behind the hood as their immediate response is to use the jet to make their escape. Problem is you will likely have to clean ink off the net. If (and more likely when) you catch a squid then remember exactly where you cast. Southern Calamari often travel in twos or threes. Arrow squid in groups sometimes more than 10 (8 from 8 casts is my record). Keep an eye behind the squid as you wind in as it may be followed by other squid. If you are by yourself and you can get that squid jig back out there quickly you have a very good chance of catching multiple squid. If you have a mate with you estimate roughly where the squid you are hooked on to is and get your mate to case alongside and a little past your squid jig and then work it back a little quicker than you are bringing in the squid. Fairly often your mate will hook up too and if you keep one of the squid in the water and get the jig out again you may pick up a few more. Fishing from the kayak The advantage of fishing for squid from the kayak is that I can cover ground and get in some areas which will not always be comfortable for boats. I keep a bucket on my kayak in which to drop the squid and avoid getting ink over me and the kayak. The aim is to cover ground till you find them. One of my more effective methods is to line up about 5 to 8m off the shoreline and then cast ahead and parallel to the shore and specifically the outer edge of the drop off. I want to fish just outside the weed beds. This allows any squid in the weed beds and in deeper water watch the squid jig flick by. Alternatively I can also cast towards shore and then count it down the drop off but I find that limits the ground I can cover. There are a number of weed beds in Sydney which go on for a fair distance at a pretty constant depth (say 1 to 3m below the kayak). When fishing these I use a slow sinking and really fan my casts out. If you have a spare rod holder you can put out a jig on a float set at about 1m below surface which will follow the kayak as you amble along. I've caught enough squid on the sleeper jig to not be surprised by it. MEASURING THEM As the tentacles can stretch or shrink rather than tip to tip the most consistent way of measuring them is to lay them of the belly and just measure the hood. This southern calamari hood was 38cm and you can see the green eyes in the top photo. SOME SUGGESTIONS AS HOW TO PREPARE AND STORE THEM To keep them I have a few Ziplock bags with me and put them straight into the bag and then into the freezer. These frozen squid have caught me quite a few kings and jewfish (biggest being 104cm). Be warned. There is something in the ink which over time works its way through the edges of the ziplock bags and can stain whatever it is the bag was lying on. I’m going to put together some photos on the method I use to strip them for both food and bait but here is a description. Once you have some squid if you plan to use them as bait you can put them down as whole baits but I prefer to strip them. Run your hand behind the upper side of the head and into the hood and break the join with your finger. Pull the head out. Either a whole bait or cut in half lengthwise for two baits. The two wings can be separated from the body by working the join with your fingernails. Minimum of two baits there but I slice them in strips to get more. Find the feather inside the top of the hood and pinch out with fingernails and throw away. I run a knife along where it was and open the whole hood out so I can cut long strips. If you want to keep squid for eating they are prepared more or less the same way but you don't open up the hood and you clean the inside and outside of the hood. If you want to keep them for fishing buy a packet of sandwich sized ziplock bags and drop them in there and do not wash them in freshwater. Freeze them in the bag for your next fishing outing. I find they keep quite well and I can also use them whole when chasing jewfish. A few methods on how to fish them for kings and jewfish (still to come). I like using Cuttlefish as bait for kings as they come in a convenient snack size. My usual way of hooking these is to use a 6/0 circle hook at the tip of the hood and parallel with the cuttlebone as per this photo below. This one probably needed a little bit more of the hook exposed. ODDS AND ENDS (still to come) Squid Jig design @savit had been doing some reading on squid jig design and sent me a few links to share in this article http://www.squidfish.net/squidjigdesign.shtml http://www.squidfish.net/forums/index.php?/forum/27-homemade-squid-jigs-and-tackle/ http://www.fishingpatents.com/japan-squid-jig-patents-1.shtml http://www.fishingpatents.com/japan-squid-jig-patents-2.shtml Old squid I find when squid has been in the sun for a little too long it turns a fabulous shade of pink which would do a first time pale skinned visitor from the UK proud after spending a little too long sunbathing on one of our magnificent beaches. It is also a similar colour to some of the cheaper store bought squid and when I see it in this colour in the shops I often shy away from it. Rather than throwing it out, what I have found is that it makes a pretty good bait for use in crab traps and witches hat hoop nets for blue swimmer crabs (especially when it starts to get a bit fragrant). It is also a better option than contributing to our garbage dumps. Thank you and something to think about If you have gotten this far then thank you for taking the time to read this as there is a lot of information above to process. At the time of writing this there is about 15 years of chasing squid and assisting others behind this post. One of my favourite high school teachers would utter two words of advice when demonstrating complicated mathematical proofs. These were, “have faith”, and it is advice which has served me well in the years since. I don’t mean it from a biblical sense but in a practical “I can’t see the end result from where I am but I trust I will get there”, sense. Anyone who has put together Ikea flatpack furniture will have experienced this. The same comes with squidding. There are times I feel I’ve lost my Mojo but with the right gear, technique and persistence you will feel that pulsing weight on the end of your line. Fishing for squid side by side with other people it is rare for them to pull squid after squid out while I am getting nothing. The techniques work and I have faith that they will continue to do so. To summarise (assuming you have suitable gear and jigs): • Pick areas which have a mixture of sand and weed • Fish as close to the bottom as you can without snagging up (the mental countdown will assist with this) • Short sharp movements to get their attention with pauses to allow them to grab the jig • Fan your casts out • Consider a jig change (vary colour, size and maybe sink rate) or two • Move along to the next area or put the squid jigging aside for 30 or so minutes and do something else like fishing soft plastics before trying again • Use a soft hand when bringing them in to avoid pulling jigs and generally there is no need to rush as they tire quickly • Remember where you hooked up as they of travel in schools and if you can get the jig out there quickly you can often pick up a few more • Care when landing them as you can lose them at your feet and they may still be loaded with ink
  10. 1 point
    Hahaha I’ll give you a hint it’s up near the heads
  11. 1 point
    Nice effort, just goes to show what a change in weight can do! Also can.you take some more scenic pictures, I'm trying to figure out where spot x is 😝
  12. 1 point
    They all work but not all the time. I have had success with the Tackleback model, which slides down the line while attached to a cord, but you must have a snap in the rig. It's a bit hard to operate on your own at times. And if there is something in the snag that stops it sliding down it won't work.
  13. 1 point
    Hey Raiders, Thursday afternoon Maria surprised me with a request to overnight chasing Hairtail - but a quick check of the weather showed a forecast of only 4C which ended that plan pronto. So we settled for the next option which was to spend Friday adding a few more hours running in the new Merc - interspersed with exploring the reefs off Sydney harbour. The plan was to launch from Ermington Warf and punch out past the heads heading north towards Long Reef - but on this occasion stop to fish the reefs that we would normally cruise over. So with sunrise just on 7am, we departed Castle Hill at 6am (can confirm it was 4C, infact there was icy frost on the storm covers) and 20min later at Ermington came across this .... a fit asian gentlemen taking his morning swim .... now there's a cardio workout ! Everyone launching boats at the ramp was well rugged up, 5 layers thick as Maria said. Humbled (as we had bailed on chasing hairtail) we launched, and headed toward Sydney in the pre-dawn light... Full sunrise saw us just past the bridge ..... what a magnificent city we live in ..... Rounding the heads, the water temp was 17.6C, flat and calm and we sprinted to just past Dee Why. Salted pillies, SPs and frozen squid on board. First few drifts produced 4 bluespot flatties around 40cm and two lost rigs on snags. With our past few trips being Brown's adventures it was clear we were out of practice fishing light over reef grounds. But a good start to the day. We moved around to different reef marks that were highlighted on Navionics and ones that Sam ( @GoingFishing ) had shared previously, landing a bunch of undersized pannies, and reef fish... but by 1pm had 12 solid flatties on board - a mixture of dusky and bluespot, and a keeper mowong. Maria with her 60cm dusky - caught on a sinker jig at the end of a paternoster. Z's 60cm bluespot - caught on a strip of trevally fresh caught and repurposed for bait on Sam's hybrid rig. A top day on the water, the conditions were absolute bliss, glassy at the end, but with enough run to keep the fun going. We ended the day with 2.9kg of skinned flattie fillets and a mowie which will be crispy fried Sunday lunch Thai style! The only downside to the day was the fish cleaning facility at Ermington ramp. I mean seriously - that council needs to take a lesson from Brooklyn on how to spend our license fees. The tables were the filthiest I'd ever seen - and it wasn't the fishos fault - the council had fitted push down taps that you normally see in public toilets. There was no way to keep any water flow going to wash the table. I'll be writing to them to express my views. Personally I only use the fresh water to wash the area and clean my cutting boards, knives. So I was fortunate I brought back 20L of salt water and the water in the live bait tank to rinse the fillets and cleaned fish - they never touch fresh water. I understand why we can't fully process our catch offshore and have to bring back whole fish, but the quid pro quo then should be that we have decent facilities at the ramp that can be kept somewhat hygienic. Using the facilities as they are is a sure way to spoil any fisho's catch. Anyway, enough of a rant.... I'm just wondering what do the other Raiders that regularly use Ermo do? Cheers Zoran PS: The Merc just purred, pushing the Haines through the harbour chop with ease at all revs. We rounded Sydney Heads at 42kmh 4500rpm, hit 61kmh at 5350rpm off Dee Why... 6.1hrs on the clock, nearly there.
  14. 1 point
  15. 1 point
    You didn't say if you want to trailer her or more her. If you want to trailer the boat you are limited to around the 7 mt mark unless you use a proper truck to tow. If you want to keep her in the water you may need to go to a minimum of 25' to do what you want. A 7mt ( or there abouts ) will do all you want besides the overnighting for 4, if you can somehow compromise on that ( depending on kids age) that's what I will be looking at , plenty to choose from, especially used to suit your budget, you are more limited on new. As you are going to use the boat 70% for fishing , I wouldn't go for anything like Bayliner, Searay etc. I will be looking for a cabin and or walkaround. I have a 22' Grady White Seafarer 228, fantastic boat but the cab wouldn't be big enough for 4 and very expensive, plenty of deck space though. Boats are always a compromise, it depends on what you want to compromise on. If you are going to trailer make sure you buy a boat that is under 2.5 mtrs wide, some dealers will tell you the boat is 2.5 mtrs even if they are 2.59, check it on the manufacturers website. Most 21' plus American boats are 2.59 due to their road limits there . Weight is another thing when you get to 7 mtrs, try to keep under 3.5T gross, if in doubt put her on a weigh bridge before you buy. If you plan to fish a long way offshore fuel rapacity is another thing to consider. Again don't rely on the dealers or manufacturers fuel use as it is under calm water, light load and ideal conditions, you don't want to carry jerry cans on board. If you like alloy boats , they are a little cheaper ( as a rule) than glass and a little lighter, smaller engines and less fuel. If you are happy to keep her in the water you have a lot more options, 28' is probably ideal but you will be looking at a much older boat and mostly inboards. Good luck on your search, interesting to know what you end up with.
  16. 1 point
    I tried, using manual depths which never seemed to help once bottom had been lost on the newer units. Going back to the standard first hds units I never had those problems. Having seen how much better the Garmin higher res screens are at separating and identifying fish I now can't wait to get one fitted in my boat. My daughter keeps coming home from days in the charter boats she works on with screen shots from all kinds of fish at different depths, whch clearly look different from each other. On my Lowrance I could find fish ok in waters to the start of the shelf but all these different species looked much the same, blobs of fish. Some blobs unfortunately end up being costly leather jackets!!! Even though these screen shots looked promising, having dived each of these it turned out to be sweep and damsel fish.
  17. 1 point
    If you dont have a lockable trailer hitch pin then I would be getting one, they are only about $15. I got one about 3 weeks ago, cant believe it took me so long to get although my safety chain is locked to my tow bar. If I had a very expensive boat I would also be getting an additional coupling lock. Unfortunaley councils need to be constantly pushed until you get some action, I think we are lucky at Botany as I see a guy come daily to empty the garbages & clean the fish cleaning room which is a great little facility. If you were to sue them for food poisioning they might start to take action, a bit like not filling pot holes of fixing trip hazards on pathways.
  18. 1 point
    Forgot to mention the ludicrousness of the sign advising you not to eat fish from the river. Far more dangerous to eat fish you have cleaned on that table yet they don't sign that.
  19. 1 point
    1) The asian guy has been swimming there for years. He follows the mangrove line down towards silverwater bridge and the ferry skippers I know, keep a keen eye for him especially the winter darks. We used to see him at 6am. Can"t believe a bull shark hasn't got him. 2) The table is filthy. I tried addressing the issue with council several years ago but found it's a bit of a demarcation dispute between Ryde and Parra....typical public service mentality. so gave up. We take our own large cleaning boards down there. 3)Twice in the last 4 weeks some wanker has undone the ubolt we use to secure the trailer hitch and then the hitch. Check your trailer every time you retrieve, All 3 of us checked it the last time before we left home; just to be sure we hadn't stuffed up.
  20. 1 point
    Correct about the fish cleaning tables, I have even used dish washing liquid and a scrubber on the table, before I started for that one time I actually caught a fish worth bringing home. Rydalmere / Ermington is the pick of the ramps, Silverwater the pontoon does not float so is very slippery and the wash from the river cats is huge, don't want to be there trying to get a large boat on when a river cat goes past. I wonder if it was council who did the trees, I was there a few weeks back and heard a few blokes discussing coming down with a chainsaw next time as they just broke one of their rods as it was hooked up in the tree. Putney is good and Rhodes is also good although parking is limited.
  21. 1 point
    Before Covid I went to the airport to see some people off, on the way home ( it wasn't busy ) we went by train, I leaned over and interrupted Val texting someone and said " there are 15 people in this carriage and 14 of them are using their phones ". Val smiled and turned her phone off. I have just about got to the point of cancelling my land line as I am sick and tired of getting 3-4 calls a day from Nicholl from NBN telling me they are going to close my internet down, as well as all the other scams. I have a mobile and use the buy when needed type coverage, ( no plan ) I put $20 top up and it usually lasts me more than 12 months. I do use it to take the occasional photo. Frank
  22. 1 point
    Agree, its a strange society we live in, as I said before, technology does not "scare" me, but (and maybe it's just me) it doesn't rule my life. Before this Covid business, we went on a cruise with a few family members (one being my 24 year old niece) when she lost mobile coverage after a few hours, she near died and wanted to go home, she still had her phone in her hand, "just in case" all day long, funny hey? When I was working in IT, everything was "scheduled" and alerts sent out, and in lots of ways, it made life simple, but, to me, it was just a tool to be used, not a tool to use me!
  23. 1 point
    I dont disagree at all noel but I think its not about the device more about that generations obsession with social media of which this & any forum is a part of. Its all a popularity contest to them. You only have to look at the numbers of people being fined for using their phones while driving, total halfwits! I travel into sydney CBD for work every day(well used to pre CV19) & see it by the bus/tram load, its very sad, very little socialisation or just greating happening any more. The thing is these day even for me as I dont have a landline my mobile is my main form off communication & also it helps me organise my appoinments via the calendar, helps remind me of important dates like family birthdays, I do 3/4 of my banking by phone, bill payments etc, I havent even worn a watch for about 15 years so I have to check my phone just to see the time! In the end I couldnt do without my phone but it does not control me, I control it 🙂 Its one reason I enjoy going bush & not having mobile access for a while.
  24. 1 point
    There is no doubt technology has improved our lives, my point was that people are simply obsessed with phones and iPads and the like, I just don't see the need to have the phone in your hand 24 hours a day, we went out for a family dinner last week, and just for fun, I said to my son and daughter (both in their 30s) that "no phones" at the table, you would think I just signed a death sentence, my daughter still had her phone in her hand most of the time, continually looking at it out of habit, and my son put his on the table, screen up, on silent, that's my issue with technology.
  25. 1 point
    Great report and Super photos. Well done.
  26. 1 point
    Great report Zoran and interesting rigs. Those flatties are a good size and tasty feed. I think you may have a couple of records there. Interesting rigs that you used. Its a shame about the cleaning tables and obviously not much thought has gone into the tap, I must say I have never used a public cleaning facility and prefer to do it at home when cleaning the boat,
  27. 1 point
    I agree but also disagree with that statement as well. What the internet does is open up the world instead of you having access to one small portions of it. There are so many outstanding things/products that not available here so if you want it you have to get it from OS. But also finding things on your own doorstep wouldnt happen without the net. How do you find out about them, google usually! The lazyness comes from readliy available things like Uber eats etc, so you dont even have to cook anymore, I agree with that bit In a time poor society we now choose to get things delivered, even from from across your own city, I'd rather pay $10 postage than spend 1.5hrs in traffic & spend $15 on fuel. Sometimes lazy is just smart thinking imo !
  28. 1 point
    That trip was certainly worth the effort. Some great fish there .
  29. 1 point
    I constantly get calls from "Telstra" they always go the same way, the technical department tells me my account has been "hacked" I act all surprised and they ask if I can go to me computer, I say I am at the computer, they always ask what keyboard keys are in the bottom left corner, I tell them, and they then ask to open a webpage, or a terminal window (I worked in IT for 25 years) after a while I tell them I am working with the Australian Federal Police, and have just kept them talking to trace the call, the international Police will be knocking of your door in minutes.....they then tell me where to go, and hang up.
  30. 1 point
    I cant count the number of phishing email I get every day. Somehow those B!$@$@#! get hold of an email address and just keep sending crap. Then I get multiple call every week on the home phone from ATO / Microsoft / Telstra trying to get me to let them onto my computer or get my credit card details. With those I try and keep them on the line fpr as long as posible just to waste their time. Being retired I look on that as sport. 🤣🤣 Sad for the people who do get caught.
  31. 1 point
    If it can happen to govenrments & big business the where do we stand as individual 😬 Im sure they are far far more better equipped for such attacks than we are by just having anti virus software etc! Everyday we are being attacked in many ways including scam emails & MMS messages, its only going to get worse & unfortunately leaves you feeling less secure & having the attitude that everyone is out to get you so dont trust anyone. I sometimes get 3 or 4 fake paypal or other ones say Netflix emails a day in my junk folder & sometimes 2 or 3 fake MMS a day saying rubbish like "sorry we didnt get this information to you earlier" with a link. They only need 1% of people to fall for it to make their cash!!
  32. 1 point
    We have navigation lights 😁
  33. 1 point
    Hey @Scienceman, glad you got the performance you were after. Now to fine tune the last 20% satisfaction level. 1) Seems to me if the dealer knew about prop chatter - he should have been very proactive in advising you what you need to avoid it upfront. Stick to your guns on this one. Also, FIW I had my motor fitted with a Mercury Enertia (S/S) prop ... other sites have reported this style of prop helps eliminate chatter in a 4cyl 4str - Honda example: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/prop-chatter-in-4-stroke-outboards_topic114807.html 2) The throttle linkage issue sounds like an adjustment issue - Mercury also has several types of control boxes - have the dealer confirm he installed the one recommended for your motor? All my motors have had relatively smooth progression on throttle - there should be nothing unusual about this 60HP Merc? BTW, I've sent you a PM as well. Cheers Zoran
  34. 1 point
    Good choice not to say there is anything wrong with Yamaha. Either engine would serve you well of course the 70 would go slightly better and I always like to power my boats with the max rated HP. but that's just me. For the record I prefer Mercs but I have a 250 Yam on my boat. I would definitely use the Flo Torq 2 hub kit . Some facts: The Merc you have there is the same engine as the Yamaha 60 hp. Your Merc is made by Yamaha. I don't know if they use the same gearbox. . dunc333 The Yamaha 70 Hp is sort of the same as the 60 hp Yam but not quite the same, they are the same displacement.. If you notice the weights are different due to the fact that 70 hp has a different head with 16 valves hence the extra weight. The 60 Yam has 8 valves same as Merc 60 ( they are the same engine) with different skin if you like.
  35. 1 point
    After sitting on the fence and even asking my wife to make the decision for me (risky I know 😉) I decided to go with the Mercury 60CT. Reasoning: - dealer is 5 min away Vs 1 hour - was convinced the power (torque) was very close between the two motors(see attached graph, even though this is a Mercury doc I believe the graphs look authentic) with the 60CT having as good or slightly better hole-shot but expecting to drop ~5 km/h at WOT. - No other major technology differences between them; same displacement, both injected, same gearing, same weight etc - $1000 cheaper - dealer found the OEM 15P prop didnt get close enough to 6000 rpm WOT and offered to upgrade to a 14P SS prop for cost price (extra $250), retails for >$800. Read that this can reduce slip from ~25% to ~10% but if you hit a solid object it can damage gear case etc. Decided to go with it. Shake down cruise on the weekend. Confirmed hole-shot is acceptable and only slightly slower than the old 70 2st. Very smooth, flat power band up with plenty of torque across the rev range. 5800 rpm WOT at 50km/h as expected. The boat is a 2000 Bay Ranger Caprice 475 so hardly a performance hull and becomes skittish at high speeds and crashes rather than glides over waves. 3500rpm - 4500rpm = 30km/h - 40km/h very sweet running, so quiet. Don't need the fastest hole-shot or the fastest top speed as my use is 60% estuary: 20% open bay: 20% near off-shore, fishing only, no skiing or towing. Very little opportunity to run close to WOT and most boating is ~35 km/h, except for very short periods. Two negatives to be worked on, 1) Prop chatter at idle. Reported to dealer who said to see if it settles down. Read that it can be common on all makes of small 4 st engines, more often with SS props. Mercury have a Flo Torque kit which can help but is expensive. Will be pushing dealer to fit as not happy with the noise/shaking. 2) Throttle leaver has to be moved a long way before engages with engine. Then the distance travelled for the full rev range is very small so can be difficult to adjust for fine rpm control. Also difficult to quickly accelerate without going WOT. Hoping this can be adjusted but not confident. Overall level of satisfaction: 80%. Got pretty much what I expected and happy with the result. F70 Vs 60 CT Comparison.pdf
  36. 1 point
    OK, on topic again. Was ready to drop my hard-earned and made one last call to a local outboard repairer who has a good reputation to see his thoughts, and turns out he is a Tohatsu dealer. His comments were pretty reasonable about Yamaha (nothing negative except for gearbox seals on work boats) and he pointed me to the MFS60 released last year: https://www.tohatsu.com.au/node/1523 After deciding to go with the F70 I am reluctant to consider 60hp instead however this article ran it on a similar length weight boat and seemed to go fine: https://www.fishingworld.com.au/boats/reviews/mad-dog-and-tohatsu-60hp-four-stroke-review#:~:text=The%203%2Dcylinder%2060%20is,board%20communication%20connectivity%20(optional). Things I like: - 20Kg lighter than the F70 - $1400 cheaper than the F70. (with current EOFY discount - $9,600) - newer design, the F70 was released ~8 years ago (but this shows it's reliable too) - Local servicing/repairs not 30min drive away - 5 year warranty Vs 3 year Ahhh, hate these decisions. Will sleep on it over the weekend. Anyone got feedback on the Tohatsu?
  37. 1 point
    Even if you account for + or - 10% for varying boat hull design, weight and prop setup......there is still a significant difference in fuel consumption with the G2 still being far more efficient. Great advice @jeffb5.8, agree with you 100%. I guess the issue here is that certain individuals are quick to blindly recommend one brand and not give any other brand consideration. Theres nothing wrong with letting the original author of this post know that the other brands are equally as good, which is essentially what you, i and some of the others have said !
  38. 1 point
    What year Evinrude? My 2016 115Hp Etec is very good on fuel and now its been fixed very efficient on oil as well, I went the Etec because I could have a 130hp Etec or 100hp Suzuki, ended up with a 115 etec Minimum was 90hp so I though the 115hp would be enough. Some of the comments on here border on aggression, nobody on here owns a outboard company, so there is no need for the angst over someones opinion. Give your experience and if someone else has a different opinion so be it, unless they directly have a crack at you be like Anna from Frozen and "Let it Go." I now like my 2016 115hp Etec and its been great for the last 75hrs, but have also been in very similar boats to mine with Honda 4stroke and Suzuki 4 strokes and there is not much difference between them, they are quieter at 4am when they start, I'm slightly quicker off the mark but top end we are very similar, add in some wind and chop and we all travel at similar speeds for comfort. I have to get mine serviced every year, just like the 4 stroke outboards, the old 3yrs 300hrs didn't work (To many issues in the first 50hrs) and then Evinrude added 2yrs extra warranty if yearly serviced. So servicing was very similar to my mates Honda and Suzuki with cost different being around $60 in my favour but they only have to travel 25mins to a dealer I have to drive 1hr each way as dealers are few and far between. There will be pros and cons for each outboard but the buyer has to weigh these up, the internet is full of myths and disappointed buyers, but for every 1 sad buyer there is 10 who are loving their outboard. Here is my thought 1. Pick you HP (More is better 90% of the time) 2. research your brands, Weight, dealer location, price, warranty length, what your mates have 3. buy it get it set up right, new fuel lines, gauges, wiring, filters 4. enjoy
  39. 1 point
    @motiondave Here are some stats on the Evinrude G2 150HO which i took personally on my maiden voyage with my boat. Stats speak for themselves i say. Pretty eye opening to see how much more efficient the G2 150 is on fuel than it's competitor 4 stroke of same HP. Just one of the many misconceptions out there!!! (ps i had to convert that darned American system to metric system- approx) 1200rpm/ 6 knots / 4.5 litres hr 3500rpm/ 22 knots/ 18 litres/hr 4500rpm/30 knots / 27 litres/hr WOT/ 39 knots / 43 litres hr Yamaha F150 20 KNOTS: 25L/HR @3500RPM 26 KNOTS: 29.9L/HR30 KNOTS: 35.9L/HR34 KNOTS: 47.6L/HRMost Efficient Cruise: 4.1 mpg at 3,500 rpm / 23 mph Source : https://www.boatingmag.com/is-bigger-boat-motor-better/
  40. 1 point
    only a two stroke review/opinion Evinrude : freight trains of grunt but drink like a mutha... Yamaha : economical and lighter in weight Mercury : somewhere in between? thats what Ive seen and read.Ive watched a few youtube videos of blokes, granted it was a tinny and a 15hp, but all three were compared with the same three blokes and the same boat. They tested each to see how they drink, perform, get on the plane , etc. But Id dare say its personal preference of course. another almost Ford-Holden-Chrysler debate
  41. 1 point
    Noelm is of the belief that the only outboard worth buying is Yamaha and all other brands be discounted on principle without any further research or consideration.....irrespective of any first hand user experience given by other raiders and also irrespective of any anecdotal data such as that produced by you and Zoran!!!! Irony is....yammie could be the right engine for this swap ! But I don't think all other brands should be overlooked for no valid reason
  42. 1 point
    to nolem are you dissputing my dissplacement values of 996cc f70 and merc 996cc 60 hp as i will say again all new outboards are good.these days any brand, price ,dealer location support ,and your trust in your local dealer .no 1 thing is correct rigging of any new engine .cheers dunc333
  43. 1 point
    All useful comments as experience is at least as valuable as specs. Unfortunately I wont know the outcome until it is actually fitted and propped. I've been quoted the F70 which has a promotional discount currently for $11K, fitted, gauges, prop fitting etc. So $1K more than the Mercury 60CT but it will be mounted with the same bolt holes, gauges will fit into existing holes (now digital), engine weight is similar, I get an extra ~10hp with a little more torque. The torque does seem to be at higher revs than the Merc so I think fitting the right prop will be essential to ensure low - mid range grunt.
  44. 1 point
    Great advice Noelm. First hand experience is more valuable than any marketing spiel.(Unless of course that first hand experience relates to a 2 stroke, then of course the owner has no idea and its all lies remember !🙃) So how does a prospective purchaser make a decision? Theres lots of customers who have purchased Yammies and had problems, a quick search on various fishing and boating forums will find countless stories, but similarly there are lots of happy yammie owners. Manufacturing is not perfect, some engines will be born with problems. This could be said about literally any brand. The notion that Yamaha are literally the one and only brand worth buying is so ridiculous it demonstrates clear bias.
  45. 1 point
    Thanks all for your comments. Appreciate the input, especially zmk1962. I've always looked at torque as much as HP with my cars so what you say makes sense however there is a more limited choice with outboards (as there are many more restrictions such as boat weight, design, application etc). I found this interesting comparison: Merc 60 = 59HP @ 5750RPM and 76NM @ 3000RPMYamaha F60 = 57HP @ 6000RPM and 76NM @ 4,500RPMYamaha F70 = 67HP @ 6300rpm and 83NM @ 5,300RPM Also expect the Suzuki DF70A would be another good option.
  46. 1 point
    I'd like to heart this post twice but the forum doesn't have that function 🤣👌💪 Absolute gold
  47. 1 point
    Thanks for the vote of confidence @GoingFishing but all my research has been focused on shifting from 2St to 4St technology in motors in the 150-200hp range, so I cannot directly comment on any of the make / models that have been discussed here, as they are engine block designs that I have no experience in or done any research on. But it sounds like @noelm has some practical experience in this class of motors. However, what I can share is the generic information that has helped me narrow the field in my search. It is universally applicable to any outboard selection. There is a perception, largely built out of all of our auto industry experience that HP is king. But in the marine engineer community there is a saying that "HP sells boats/motors, but it's actually Torque that moves them". When you dig into it, this makes a lot of sense. Torque is the twisting force that a motor can deliver and all motors due to their design deliver different Torque output at different RPM - they have an optimum RPM range for max Torque (and hence max HP). HP itself is calculated as follows HP = (Torque x RPM)/5252 ... so ask yourself, when we see all the HP numbers attributed to our outboards have we ever actually been told at what RPM that HP was generated? Is that RPM range useable to us? Have we ever actually been shown the Torque the motor produces at different RPM? Rarely if ever. But we largely focus on that one HP rating number as the basis of our next 10-20yrs of investment. When in fact its the twisting force - the Torque at the Prop - that should be our main concern as boaties. Here's why. Most of our experience is with Automobiles. And In the Auto industry, yes HP is king, because we can bring the max Torque RPM down through gearing for effective use. eg and F1 racing car with a blown 1.5L engine produces 700HP at 10,000rpm.... but you can't drive the tyres at 10,000rpm so they have gears to bring that max Torque down to usable RPM, and then shift gears to keep the engine spinning at max torque RPM with each gear driving the wheels at a rate that can efficiently transfer the max Torque to usable motion. No ask yourself how many gears does your outboard have? ONE. It's the one gear in the lower leg that takes the crank shaft HP ( a function of RPM and Torque) and reduces it to drive the prop shaft. The reduction is typically in the range of 1.75:1 to 2.08:1. For simplicity lets say this gear is 2:1 so if the motor has a Rev range idle to redline of 700-5800, the prop would be spinning 350 -2400rpm. And if we are spinning a 17p prop (with no slip) the boat would be travelling 350rpm 11.3mph (18.1km/h) to 2400rpm 38.6MPH (62.1kmh) in that rev range. Your boat speed is totally gated by that one gear and the prop pitch that you are running.... but at which RPM does that engine produce its rated HP? And does that engine produce enough Torque in the RPM range that you need for your boating - you can't change gears on your outboard to keep the engine at its max HP (Torque x RPM) while spinning the prop at the required RPM for the speed you need. So for an outboard motor it is absolutely crucial in which RPM range does the motor produce maximum Torque, because we have four critical phases in boating: 1. idle to plane (hole shot): motor 700-2500rpm: Most boats are well on the plane by the time a motor is at 2500rpm .. prop at 1250rpm 17p prop 20.1mph (32.3km/h). (For instance my hull planes at 20km/h) In boating we need a lot of torque in this 700-2500rpm range !!! 2Stroke delivered this for years because every 2nd cycle was a power stroke. Early 4St motors borrowed from the Auto industry (with Torque optimised for high RPM designed to use gears to generate low end RPM Torque) lagged low end Torque due to the outboard single gear design for many years - the max torque was too far up the RPM range to be useful in hole shot... so the industry norm was to install a bigger HP 4st than the 2St you are replacing to keep hole shot performance. Bigger HP usually derived from bigger capacity motors and hence more overall torque at the low end. We had to oversize the 4st to preserve the Torque required for hole shot -- and then that brought in the oversized motor weight consideration. 2. Plane to midrange (ride the wave): motor 2000-3000rpm. This is where offshore boaters need torque to keep the boat on a plane on sloppy broken seas, either to climb waves or control coming down the face. Motor 2000-3000rpm is 1000-1500rpm at the 17p prop ie effective speeds of 16.1mph(25.9km/h) to 24.2mph(38.8km/h). A typical boat can't do more than that speed in broken seas - your motor needs to deliver the torque you need in this RPM range to maintain control. 3. mid range: motor 3000-4000rpm: This is typically cruising speed. The boat is now on a plane and as fishing boaties we want max economy (efficiency) and optimum cruising speed (17p prop no slip, motor 3000rpm, prop 1500rpm 24.2mph (38.8km/h); motor 4000rpm prop 2000rpm 32.2mph (51.8km/h)). If we were towing skiers we'd want more torque in this range as well. 4. top end: motor 4000-red line (typically 5800-6000 rpm) ... at these RPM ranges with that 17p prop you are travelling at 60+ km/h ... may be of interest to the US lake fisherman, but how many times do conditions allow Aussie offshore boaties do these speeds? But interestingly thats the RPM range at which many outboard manufacturers rate their max HP! In my case - completely irrelevant. So putting all these thoughts together, and setting aside engine weights for the moment, a 60HP engine of the right design may actually produce the same or more usable Torque than another vendors 70HP engine in the RPM range that you do most of your boating. You may be sacrificing some top end performance but it would be the better choice for your most common boating experience. BUT sadly all this analysis requires you to get your hands on Torque to RPM data for the engines you want to compare. ???? In my case, I searched for months and found that it actually exists in the US boating community - it seems there is a very competitive spirit still in the US and the different manufacturers benchmark competitor outboards and actually publish HP and Torque curves at trade show and such. There are many forums where avid boaties photograph and share this type of data. Here's an example of some 150HP comparisons: In the above example, the 4St Merc improved the low end RPM torque over a 2st design by some 20-30% in the early planing RPM range, by specifically building a marine 4st engine. Torque is force x distance (lb.ft, Nm etc). They created more force by increasing the capacity of the engine cylinder (more volumetric fuel to explode) and increasing the distance from the crankshaft - a bigger lever - hence generated more low RPM torque for hole shot. This is still a 4St design where each cyl only generates power every 4th cycle - it burns fuel every 4th stroke and there's the 4st fuel economy. Put simply this motor throws more metal around further from the crankshaft. This engine in several independent tests (Perth, Melb, Bris) on different manufacturer 6m+ FG hulls consistently delivers 4sec hole shot performance - I don't think thats too shabby against any 2st expectation. All due to the focus on delivering maximum Torque in the low-mid range RPM. The motor also seems to generate its max Torque in the 2500-3000rpm range - right where I want it for that plane-midrange RPM performance - for broken seas (remember motor RPM determines my hull speed due to the single gear - I need to go fast enough to plane, but can't go too fast due to the conditions but I need the torque at that RPM to keep my position on the wave.) Anyway, hope this lengthy discussion is of some help. Perhaps do some googling for the engines you are considering Merc 60CT and Yam F70, and see if you can track down a torque/rpm curve for each. Or find test cases or users and get some data points: Hull weight on water, motor RPM, speed, prop specs. Remember "HP sells boats/motors, but it's Torque that actually moves them". Cheers Zoran PS1 - some other rules of thumb, obviously a higher pitch prop needs more torque to spin it, but moving 1p between propeller pitches has about a 6% variance in speed. I've done all my calcs here on a 17p and no slip. Typical acceptable slip is 10-15%, if its more than that you need to have your set up tuned (motor height - cavitation/ventilation, size of prop diameter and pitch etc). So consider these factors in setting your prop rpm pitch to speed expectation. I can share links for these calculators if anyone is interested. PS2 - this same vendor (BRP) that produced the chart above has compared, Suz, Yam and Merc and has produced Torque RPM curves that are floating out in google land. PM me if you want the links - again I have only focused on the 150HP range specifically. PS3 - and this is off OPs topic but helps with some of the decision logic on what is usable. The chart above clearly shows the 150hp eTec is a great engine - in this comparison it may lag Torque in the planing RPM phase but produces 20-30% more Torque in the mid-range RPM - if my boating included towing skiers this would have been a contender - prior to the recent BRP announcements. But in the same breath looking at the curves it's somewhat over engineered for my planned typical boating use. Just like a 200HP 4St may be oversized- I can't use the additional Torque to spin the prop any faster in that mid range due to hull speed/sea conditions. I'm sure this will generate debate which perhaps should be moved to a different topic so the OP original question is not polluted especially if the discussion is specific to my 150-200hp decision.
  48. 1 point
    You should speak to @zmk1962 and get some advice. He is also repowering his boat and has done a tonne of research, he's repowering with a Merc too at this stage as the grey ghost doesn't cut the mustard on torque. Even more important if you want the value benefits of dropping 10hp
  49. 1 point
    Hi raiders, You will notice some changes to the site over the last few days. The site has been given a refresh and upgrade. There are no more ad banners but you will see the links across the top of the forum. These are links to the Deckee map (to add info and check weather conditions) and Flotespace to book fishing charters. These are works in progress and there are some exciting things happening for us down the track. At the bottom of the forum you will see "Theme" - make sure you have selected "Fishraider 2020 (default)" Cheers mrsswordie
  50. 1 point
    This award is for members who go above and beyond to help other raiders in various ways These members below have been given the badge - well deserved @frankS @kingie chaser @rickmarlin62 @zmk1962 @Yowie @dirvin21
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