Hi there again and thanks for the replys. I had a 4.2 quintrex fishabout about 30 years ago and only used it a few times then sold it due to lack of use, as at the time I was working 2 jobs and the wife was working and just did not have the time. I have been to the last 2 fishing classics at Evans Head with a couple from our caravan club and he has a Haines Hunter about 6 metres (memory) and have enjoyed that (apart from 5.30am get ups) going outside 1 or 2 k however he has been out a lot further than that on many occassions outside Newcastle area. Since coming back this year my wife and I have made a decision to start up again (spend the kids inheritance) and perhaps take the grandchildren with us (not all at once) lets say about once a month may even let my children come sometime as well. We intend to fish/cruise Brisbane Water, Hawkesbry River and the bay area with the opportunity to outside if we wish on a good day. I have asked my friend and he rightly so states it is up to us what we feel comfortable with as well as many other things and the boat sales person made a good point that it is like the caravan purchase you start with a small one then go bigger then come back in size over the years. I don't want to purchase one and then wish I had got a bigger boat then on the other hand find that a bigger boat might to big to handle. At this point of time whatever we purchase the wife and I will be just learning the does and don'ts in Brisbane Water and may not go outside for 12 months ? We would be quite happy with the 481 fishabout (size wize) if it ticks all the boxs. So am I putting to much thought in this and go with the size of the 481 which is about 4.9 in length with the 510 being 5.4 in length and aout 10 cm more in width. Thanks David