DerekD

Just buy glow in the dark squid jigs and a UV torch and cover ground. Personally I think people put too much stock in fishing at lit up areas. Not to say you won't get squid turning up there but that the lighting is a magic elixer which will bring all the squid in to that location is probably a bit of a myth.

Hi @Little_Flatty After your initial reluctance to give topwater a serious run to becoming almost a topwater addict like several others on this site this report is a big turnaround. I'm really glad to hear about the results you are getting. Personally I love the heart stopping moment when a fish takes a shot at the lure. It is far more visual than fishing soft plastics and usually a little more exciting. I've also had some rather nice fish this way. Looking forward to seeing more of these reports. Got at least another 2 months of topwater fishing ahead of us. Regards, Derek

Hi @Kirelda That was a brilliant report and it put a big smile on my face. I'm looking forward to hearing the reactions of the people as mentioned above and others ( @Jfish and @nutsaboutfishing ) who were there for that Raiders topwater session. From the first few minutes I met you, you were asking some pretty intelligent questions. While I haven't had the chance to spend as much time with you as I would have liked due to geography and timing, watching your growth has been a pleasure. I've enjoyed each one of the sessions we have had together and I look forward to more over the coming years. I was glad to have you there for my PB bream on topwater lures and I hope to be there for a few of your PBs. Thanks for a wonderful read and a fun way to start the morning. Regards, Derek

Hi @Steve0, Thanks for the information on the Gliss as it gives me something else to consider when putting together the outfit. On a side note I've a lead on these long range rods that I'm following (thank @Little_Flatty and @Bennyg78 ) so it will probably be a case of watch this space.

Hi @faker, Thanks for the suggestion. Have thought about a longer rod but I think that it is a little more to it than that. I've got several squid jigs I can send a fair way and casting hasn't been a problem. I also have several 9 foot spinning rods in different casting ranges and three 9 foot fly rods and can really send lures a long way. The article mentioned casting 50 to 80m with light lures but hasn't defined light lures so I can't go out and get the same lure to see what I can do as a comparison. The reason for mentioning the 70mm Sugapen or 70mm MMD splash prawn is that it sets a baseline and is a readily accessible lure. If someone can cast one of these two lures over 50m then I want to know about it and how they do it. Another factor I have to take into account is a lot of these measurements are guesstimates and 50m is longer than you often think. Without a tape measure or reference points a lot of people would be guessing.

I agree 100% @noelm and it is also why when working with someone the first time I will spend often an hour or more on casting principles. In about 80% of the people I teach I can get substantial improvements in distance and accuracy and with less effort too. I believe I've gotten good enough at this to get the most out of my gear but to hear someone is getting 15m to 45m further than me really sparks my interest. The challenge I have is I don't want to spend say $1,000 on a new rod designed to get the most casting distance then find out all the little caveats afterwards like it has to be this lure. You need to be standing on a cliff. It needs to be fishing line made of unicorn hair. You also need a tail wind of 50 knots. It was a guesstimated distance as we didn't have a tape measure handy. Now if we could both put the same lure on each outfit under the same conditions and then compare casting distance I feel it is a proper comparison. Try before you buy would also be nice. In my case, a pretty consistent 35m with a 70mm splash prawn is around the most I think it is possible with my outfit. I've gone head to head with @Bennyg78 and his preferred outfits and we are both getting very similar distances consistently. It comes down to a coin toss which one of us will cast further and only by 1 to 2m. To find out the X factor I'm trying to find someone who can genuinely get these extra distances.with the same lures I'm using and then work out why. I'm quite prepared to spend several hundred dollars to get say a 9 foot specialised bream rod to get 10m further casting distance under normal fishing conditions as it opens up more of the areas I'm able to fish. This was the claim which started this quest for knowledge:

Ok. I was talking to a friend and we were discussing the impact of reel size versus casting distance. Will a 1000 reel cast further than a 3000 reel or is it the other way round? Someone did an article on this: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/3000-1000-spinning-reel-casting-distance/

Hi all, Since getting into lures around 2 decades ago I realised consistent and efficient casting was an important part of effective lure fishing. It wasn't purely about distance but I worked out that distance (and accuracy) came with good technique. Over time I worked the little inefficiencies out of my casting technique. Learning fly fishing also had an impact on my casting as I learned about loading the rod up and casting along straight lines. Helping others improve their casting also helped getting rid of the chaff. I'm at the point where I think I can pick up most outfits and come close to hitting the practical limits of each particular set up. I still look for improvements even if they are minor. A year or so ago I was introducing a friend to hardbodies and he was casting small crank lures about 4 meters consistently further than I was. Hmmmmmm.... On further investigation I worked out it wasn't that his technique was better than mine but it came down to his set-up. As I have access to several long very gently sloping sandflats I started to look into maximum possible casting range. I bought a 7'8" rod with short butt, put a 1000 reel on it and set it up with PE0.5 braid filled to the optimal point on the spool. I also set up one of my other 1000 reels with a multi-coloured Siglon 8lb braid in PE0.6. I don't notice a significant casting distance difference in the reels when used with the same rod but the Siglon braid really lets me know how well I'm casting based on the colour changes. On this outfit with an MMD splash prawn 70mm (4.6gram) or a Sugapen 70mm (4.3gram) I can consistently reach around 35m. Rather than a tape measure there is a body of water where I can hit 1m shy of the opposite bank and using the measure tool in Google earth I worked out the length was 35m. While discussing long cast, light lure outfits for bream I was advised of a custom rod manufacturer who can hit 50 to 80m with their rods. This really got my attention as I would be stoked to get 15m more out of the lures I'm using. On further reading I read that they have used the outfits on days with 50 knot tail winds. That would explain where some of the distance comes from. There were some 30 knot winds this afternoon so I went to a bay where I could take advantage of the southerly. I used two of my outfits and on both I managed to increase my casting distance by 3 or 4 meters but nothing more. I used every little trick up my sleeve to get added distance short of using a drone or taking a Happy Gilmore style run up before casting. I hit the wall. There was nothing left in my proverbial tank. Is there anyone who can hit a measured (rather than estimated) 50m or better with the MMD splash prawn 70mm or Sugapen 70mm? If yes then how do you do so? Is it a specialised 9 foot or similar outfit. If you are in Sydney I would love to see this and see if I can get further improvements in my range. Regards, Derek

I take it you read this one too:

Hi all, I thought there were some very good comments in relation to this article so I tracked down the creator of the video and sent him the link to this topic. He took the time to come back with the following response. That was fun to read all of the discussion. Thanks for sharing. Next time I make a similar video, I'll have to consider multiple viewing angles to capture movement in all directions. I've also heard suggestions to include different types of lures. There are so many combinations of lures, knots, and lines/leaders, it may have to be broken into several videos! Sounds like there may be some follow up videos incorporating the Raiders observations.

Awwwww..... This thread has given me a warm, glowing feeling. That was a lovely offer @XD351 Looking forward to seeing more of your reports @Birdy

Knots to hardbody lures video: snug knot, loop knot, clips or split rings? This is a topic which comes up now and then for discussion on this forum. This gentleman did a video with underwater footage.

Hi @linewetter, So you were paying attention... Congratulations on the bream and I loved the photos and the background story. I used to do 1 reconnaissance trip once every 4 or 5 trips out to learn about different areas. This trip out is a great start. Glad it wasn't me climbing up that steep hill. How was the burn in the legs? Looking forward to your next report. Derek

YEP!! You've just reached the same conclusion I came to a while back and it was a game changer for me. I follow the video's guidelines of using 10m casts when fishing along the wall but I also go for maximum casts on those shallow gradient sandflats.

We canned the afternoon session in Mosman. There was only @AlbertW and @linewetter still able to play after lunch. Since they were both in my car we drove around Iron Cove to show them another fishing area and ended up at Lilyfield for a flick and then back to Drummoyne Bay for the late afternoon. The topwater was going well in the sense we were still having fun and really dialing in the casts and retrieves so we just continued. It made dropping Albert at the train station and Linewetter back at his place really easy. We covered almost everything I can think of with topwater (but still have freshwater topwater to try at Manly dam for bass and redfin). Session at Mosman is still to come and I'll keep you in the loop.

Hi all and excellent write up @linewetter, It was an absolute pleasure catching up with you all and then seeing the group dynamics as people switched around and had a chat to different people. Between the walk the dog type lures (Sugapen & Slippery dog), popper style lures (MMD Prawns & Skinny pops) and finally the dying baitfish type lures (OSP bent minnow and Berkley Bender) I think we covered most of the topwater style lures you will encounter for this style of fishing. Once you learn to use the retrieve I try to teach with the Sugapen the same retrieve works for the other lures. You just change the cadence and vary the pauses to suit but it is the same retrieve technique. By the end of the session I can say with complete confidence that you are all at the point you will catch topwater bream and the whiting with the level you have reached. So we didn't catch any bream on the day, but there are days when they are not biting. Really blown away by the effort you all put in to learn this lovely niche style of fishing. Regards, Derek

Another time. Today was mostly about @linewetter and @lhan and they would have gotten most of my time with the other people there getting comments about where they could try something different.

I had a ball. It kind of grew organically. I'd promised to take out @linewetter and @lhan. @Bennyg78 was keen to get out for a flick and had promised to show Linewetter fishing gear from the dark side. @AlbertW has been in regular contact with Benny and myself and we were keen to get him his first topwater bream so invited him along. @Kirelda also is of similar age to Albert and they have fished together before. He happens to live in easy driving distance so we let him know it was on. It was also where we first met and I encouraged him to join Fishraider. @Jfish and fishing buddy reached out to me the day before and I mentioned it was happening so they decided to swing by. @Little_Flatty was leaving just as Benny was arriving. @nutsaboutfishing was coincidentally there as we have fished together in the area before. Unfortunately, @lhan had to pull out due to a recent injury so as his health is more important (just) than a fishing session he made the smart decision to put it back. I've been keen to get out with @Robbo from Sydney to refine his topwater skills so let him know the plan for the day. I did get to throw a line in this time as well as helping each of the team grow in new directions.

It was a fantastic day with some great company and relaxed conversations. While we didn't land any bream on lures I think everyone got something out of it and they are all at the point where I have confidence they will catch bream or whiting on topwater using what they've learned if they put some more sessions in and the fish are playing. We had several swirls and pulled hooks but that is part of the game.

Yes and no. To take this further this was the video which got me into topwater more frequently in a year when the kings were a pain: If you follow the advice in the video you fish parallel and within 1 - 2m of the shoreline. Ok sounds good..... or does it? I stopped and really thought about the why and that changed the way I fish and that will lead into my response. The gentleman in the video is fishing canals which have boats of different depths passing through and can be affected by tidal movements. This implies that the depth in the centre of the canal could be 3 or more meters deep. Not conducive to getting bream or whiting as they are more likely to be found near structure and not aimlessly in the middle of the water column. Ahhhhhhh.... So in the canals the sweet spot is along the canal walls as structure, food and the lures are in easy visual distance. At the canal walls the depth is likely to be up 1m or thereabouts. Click!! The sweet spot I like to fish is depths of between 20cm and 1.2m. This also happens to include a lot of sandflats. Long flat stretches of sand on which there may be yabbies, crabs, worms and baitfish. This is why I have spent the time setting up some outfits for super long casts. So I can cover a lot of ground and find the fish interested in the lures. I've hit each of these bays on the super low tides to check out the depths of water and the structure. As the tide moves in and out I shift around to fish the areas which falls within this sweet spot. There are some tolerances but it has been a good guideline to fish to. I've gotten some really good fish on some really long casts. Due to the shape of the bays I find tidal flow has negligible impact on the fishing. Wind is a bigger issue so I have multiple locations sorted out based on wind direction.

Dang it @R E G I C Y C L E you were less than 2km from the rest of us. Congratulations on an awesome result with the topwater lures.

Hi @AlbertW I really enjoyed this report and thank you for posting. The combination of photos and story and people made for an enjoyable early morning read. Hi @Hill373737 , thank you for spending the time with Albert. He reached out to me a few years ago wanting to get into fishing. His family are very supportive but lacked the knowledge to get him where he wanted to go. I've spent a lot of time with him but while he is prepared to learn I am prepared to teach him what I know. Between what you and other Raiders can show him and his hunger to learn and try things I think he will turn out to be an extremely capable and versatile fisher. I look forward to seeing how far he grows over the coming years. Regards, Derek

Dang!! You are a natural at this!! Well at least after several years and a few false starts and many distractions. Glad to hear the area is producing and I'm excited for the coming Saturday session. Out of curiosity which hooks did the bigger fish hit. I find I get the smaller fish mostly on the assist hooks but the bigger ones on the belly hook.

Hi @Birdy Welcome to the forum. Out of curiosity, is this something you intend to do obsessively or do you just want to dip a toe in and do it for fun? I see people go down the route I have to get the x foot long rod and it has to be a centrepin reel. Don't get me wrong in that people like Barry have put the time in to refine what they do and it works but it is not the only route. I do chase blackfish successfully and it is part of what I teach beginners - they are available all year round and fun to catch because it is also a visual experience. I put this article together a while back. People like Barry will probably outfish me (but I do catch my fair share when I head out for them) so if you do intend to get into it seriously and enjoy it that way then go for it and I think you are lucky to have met someone like him. If you are on a budget then consider it can be done other ways. Essentially you just need a means to get the right bait to the right depth in a way which doesn't spook them and it helps to use burley to fire them up. Regards, Derek

@Bennyg78 and myself took up @Little_Flatty's challenge to catch a topwater fish at Meadowbank and pretty much admitted defeat before we put a line in the water. The water clarity was horrible. Due to the civil works in the area the section with the best chance at a topwater fish was off limits. The depth of water in the section we could cast to was deeper than we normally like. The waves from the river traffic was a pain and seriously impacted the water clarity. Part of doing well at this aspect of fishing is the ability to cover new ground. Given time could we do it - I believe so but it would be a lot of time and wasted time. Why fish Meadowbank when there are at least 3 bays within 5 minutes drive of each other which allow me to cover several km of shore line. @Niall did a report on a session around the bay run in which he caught around 20 bream. Put the time in. Mix it up. Be patient and enjoy it and the results will come. Young @AlbertW will gets his once he puts a bit more time in as his technique is good.