DerekD

Hi @Birdy Welcome to the forum. Out of curiosity, is this something you intend to do obsessively or do you just want to dip a toe in and do it for fun? I see people go down the route I have to get the x foot long rod and it has to be a centrepin reel. Don't get me wrong in that people like Barry have put the time in to refine what they do and it works but it is not the only route. I do chase blackfish successfully and it is part of what I teach beginners - they are available all year round and fun to catch because it is also a visual experience. I put this article together a while back. People like Barry will probably outfish me (but I do catch my fair share when I head out for them) so if you do intend to get into it seriously and enjoy it that way then go for it and I think you are lucky to have met someone like him. If you are on a budget then consider it can be done other ways. Essentially you just need a means to get the right bait to the right depth in a way which doesn't spook them and it helps to use burley to fire them up. Regards, Derek

@Bennyg78 and myself took up @Little_Flatty's challenge to catch a topwater fish at Meadowbank and pretty much admitted defeat before we put a line in the water. The water clarity was horrible. Due to the civil works in the area the section with the best chance at a topwater fish was off limits. The depth of water in the section we could cast to was deeper than we normally like. The waves from the river traffic was a pain and seriously impacted the water clarity. Part of doing well at this aspect of fishing is the ability to cover new ground. Given time could we do it - I believe so but it would be a lot of time and wasted time. Why fish Meadowbank when there are at least 3 bays within 5 minutes drive of each other which allow me to cover several km of shore line. @Niall did a report on a session around the bay run in which he caught around 20 bream. Put the time in. Mix it up. Be patient and enjoy it and the results will come. Young @AlbertW will gets his once he puts a bit more time in as his technique is good.

Congratulations @Little_Flatty welcome to the bream on topwater club. Once you see those swirls and the near hits it can get your heart beating faster and then if a hit connects that line racing off is a real buzz. I went down to the same bay the other day but was fishing the middle set of mangroves. My first cast and teasing retrieve saw about 10 missed strikes whereas in the past the maximum has been about 5 strikes. I thought game on this is going to be an insane session. Several more strikes that session but after all that I finished with a donut. Having said that, that bay and the next one South have been consistent producers for me. Low numbers but some good fish. Looking forward to more reports from you on this topic.

"Please" helps. Look for bays where the water has some reasonable clarity and you can cover ground. The MMD video which started a lot of us off was done along canals (with deeper water in the middle of the canal) so the host was fishing parallel to the banks to be fishing optimal water depths. For me the sweet spot for bream and whiting is between 20cm and 1.2m deep. There are plenty of bays which meet this criteria. I wouldn't be doing it in 3m or bigger depths unless I'm fishing to structure (boats or jetties) or chasing pelagics. Essentially fish where they are likely to be and it puts the lure in reasonable striking distance. I'll walk 10 or 20m for a treat but not 10km - the payoff is not worth it and target species would behave in a similar way.

Then a video of an insane run but the result went differently: Enjoy the sound of the drag.

For those LBG maniacs this is too good not to share. Listen to the drag sing.

Hope you made enough for the rest of the class.

TEASE!!!!! Great now I'll be thinking of the aromatic scents and the sound of meat sizzling on a BBQ all day.

Hi @big Neil congratulations on the new species on fly rod. It doesn't feel so long ago that the goal was to get you on a blackfish on fly rod - which you successfully achieved. Hoping the casting on a fly rod is getting a bit easier and isn't causing you physical pain in the joints. I could be wrong but I think with a bit more work on your technique the body shouldn't be giving you any issues. Regards, Derek

Hi @Bennyg78 I really enjoyed reading this report and felt like I was almost there with both the successes and the anguish of losing the fish. All learnings to work with for the next event. This is a world away from where we started with learning to cast and getting into topwater fishing and now you are going to be giving the big boys a run for their money in the competitions. I have a lot of respect of how much effort you have put in to getting good at this niche in fishing and expect to see you grow even further. Well done mate. Derek

Hi @big Neil Now we have to get you to Sydney to get into some more of this topwater action and get another of your fishing goals ticked off your list.

Hi @Little_Flatty I was really happy with the quality. Quantity is fun but there is something about getting less fish if they are much better ones. I think it comes down to the fact that the bigger fish don't get that way by being stupid. To get quality and quantity you have to be pretty good at your game. I also liked that I picked up one each of the topwater fish I was aiming for.

Hi @Robbo from Sydney you were showing me up the last time we hit the topwater. I had a better chance this time as I didn't have you to compete with. Have to get you out soon to continue growing your skill set. What are you up to this Saturday as I'm looking at catching up with a couple of Raiders? The morning session is likely to be topwater and then the second session is planned for the harbour - vibes, slices, soft plastics and squid jigs.

They are the off the shelf MMD splash prawns in 70mm with the two trebles. I'm not a big fan of switching to the assists in the small sized topwater lures (for example Sugapens) as they have a tendency to catch on the belly hooks and about 1 in every 2 or more likely 3 casts is spend disengaging them. Also the areas I usually use these have tailor too which can destroy the rear assist hooks.

Hi @Green Hornet I think you are right about the health of the fish. I also hit a lagoon in the afternoon and a father and son team were pulling in bream after bream on bait and made a comment on how silver and shiny all the bream were looking.

Hi all, With all the mentoring lately I've been getting a reputation for someone who talks more than they fish. Having said that I still like to head out for a flick when I have some spare time. I have several bays in the inner west which are in easy driving distance from my home which go well for topwater. They are also conveniently placed on the long way home from work if the tides and wind direction suit me. I've spent a bit of time going there on the super low tides to see what is going on with respect to structure and potential food sources. On the way down there I had a chat with @Bennyg78 to see how he went in the one day kayak competition. Think we will be seeing that posted soon. We agreed on me hitting the bay where I first started teaching him topwater. Very few strikes to start with but then one of the walkers mentioned he'd seen several big bream further down the bay. Now that was Intel I wanted to hear. I kept switching lures to see what might be of interest to them. I switched between the skinny pop junior in clear, an MMD splash prawn and some bent minnows. The bent minnows are very effective but don't cast as far as the MMD splash prawns, Suganpens or slippery dogs so you often second guess your lure choice. The last really big bream I had on topwater was on an MMD splash prawn on a really long cast so being able to cover range often helps. Anyway back to today. I after getting down to where we have had successes recently I switched to a golden OSP bent minnow. Working the lure out and back several times I was rewarded with a big surface splash then line started peeling off. There was a really good bend in the rod and it took line several times. It started curving to the right and towards the oyster covered rocks. I kept the rod high to change the angle of the line and hopefully keep it clear of oysters. At one stage I got a brief flash of silver then realised the profile didn't look right. Maybe it was the light but it looked longer and flatter than a bream. Wasn't a whiting, of that I was sure. I'm thinking to myself that no way have I hooked a topwater soapie jewfish. Turns out I was right, it wasn't. Then the fish on the other end of the line swum into an oyster encrusted pipe. DANG!!! There was a $33 plus bent minnow on the end. The line hadn't broken yet so I put a little gentle pressure on it. Lo and behold there was a bit of give. So I tried it again and my leader came into view. Ok.... Stepped down onto the pipe to change the angle and slowly the fish comes out. Turns out the fight had probably winded it because one more run and I was done. Slow circles and then I managed to grab the leader and lift the bream onto the bank. Never had a fight like this before so eagerly grabbed the tape measure to read 32cm. I've had bigger bream with less effort. The fight left me with a big grin and after a quick photo it was released. Started working my way back to the car with the bent minnow and then this one hit. The fight was a lot shorter and when the tape measure came out it was a matching 32cm. I'd had a ball but it was getting warm, the tide was dropping so it was time to pack up and go for lunch. Of course I had to tease some fellow Fishraiders with photos to show I can still pull them in. Thanks for reading. Derek

In that case one or two firm, smooth, slightly longer and semi-fast lifts should clear the hooks. Also at a long distance sometimes the vibration is a little less clear through the line. I'm thinking it might be the angle of lift though. Still puzzling my way through that.

Hi @faker Sorry if I seem slow on the uptake but how do you know it is on the casting? Problem is that once you cast out you have to be able to get to the lure to see if it is fouled up and being in 2 to 10m of water I don't see how it is possible to do so until you wind it back in. Where I am heading to are you sure it is the casting and not the retrieve? Regardless, if the vibe doesn't seem to be vibrating properly when you start then try one or two slightly more powerful, longer and faster lifts to clear the assist hooks. When working at back I like a smooth easy lift and then I let in pendulum down. Almost like working teabag but in small hops towards you. I find aggressive working of vibe type lures results in hooks catching. This goes for most vibes. Regards, Derek

Hi @linewetter It was a pleasure meeting you the other day. Your passion was contagious and the growth in the size of your smile as information started to click into place was a joy to watch. I've been fishing since I've been a kid and my growth in skills was organic with little jumps in skills now and then. If I had to start from scratch these days I'd have the advantage of resources such as YouTube and Fishraider but those little tweaks and details that make a big difference are still hard to pick up. Considering you have only been at this for 2 months I'm impressed at how much you have picked up so far. As for future sessions, if you are willing to learn and put in the hard yards then I'm willing to teach. That we are in neighbouring suburbs makes it a bit easier. Regards, Derek

Probably fortunate that post covid people are still used to seeing masks used. I admit you have taken it a bit further than other people but I respect the fact you take the communities welfare so seriously.

If you haven't discovered it yet spend some time in the articles section. I've got a few other articles in there including squidding and effective casting. There is also a wealth of knowledge from other Raiders. If you do track down the bulk spool I'm talking about then I suggest about 50m of backing as you will still get about 200m of the 10lb line on a 2500 spool. Also request they use an FG knot when joining the backing to the mainline as it lays flatter and is less likely to grab if and when you get down that far. PM me if you need some further direction/assistance.

Hi @NewToFishing Interesting topic and I like the responses that others have put. In particular: @big Neil : Essentially know when to ask for help. I respect people who try to work something out for themselves but when you hit a wall in your growth then reach out. Sometimes one little piece of advice is enough to inspire you to work in directions you hadn't considered. @Max Power : Start targeting specific species. Being a bit melodramatic here but the Sun Tzu the author of the art of war stated "If you know the enemy and know yourself, your victory will not stand in doubt.". While the fish are not exactly our enemy the more you learn about their behavior and eating patterns the better you can exploit this to your advantage. @JustJames : Get out there and fish and don't take fishing lore as set in stone. @Little_Flatty : Give something a genuine attempt. Casting a lure 4 times and coming to the conclusion that it doesn't work is not a genuine attempt. I agree with everything the others have said and now my own additional thoughts on the topic. Learning to ask why and then really thinking about the response is a good way of sorting out the wheat from the chaff. Learn to mix things up. You might be doing everything right but it is not the right day. How can you change it. Think. This is the one of the biggest things for me in fishing. The people who seem to do the best and are also the people I look up to are those that become the thinking fisherman/fisherwoman. This is so important to me that I did a whole article on this topic. It will take a bit to read through and probably be even harder to get what I mean as we are heading into the realms of fishing philosophy but this can potentially change the way you fish https://community.deckee.com/topic/96633-article-the-mental-game-of-fishing-or-how-to-catch-more-fish-on-lures-or-bait/

If Pryml braid I suspect it is also what I'd call a thicker braid for the line rating which won't be helping with your casting range. When you see what you can do with @Bennyg78 or my outfits it will be a huge eye opener. Changing the braid is a worthwhile move at some stage. You could also put a skinny 10lb on it. Siglon do a bulk spool of that in the multicolour and dang it casts. The store I went to to get some reels spooled up are out of the 8lb in the same series of line the last time I went to Mona Vale but they still had the 10lb. The AAS-270UL is my go to light rod for harbour and day to day fishing but there is another I want to look at. It is the Arrowz Bream Flats Surface 7'6, 2 pc, 3 - 8lb and with a lure rating of 2-12grams. This would be the ArrowZ equal to the Raider Bream Finesse but I suspect with reduced weight. My theory is that the longer butts in the lighter rods came about as a way of reducing overall weight of the rods. You will notice the counterweight on the bottom of the rod. The further you can get it away from the reel seat the lighter you can make the counterweight thus dropping the overall weight of the rod. In the heavier rods the lever thing does make sense for both casting and working the lures or fighting the fish (you can tuck it under your arm during a long fight).

What braid do you have on the 3-5kg? I'm especially interested in the diameter. I think the rod at 6 foot 6 will have a noticeable impact on casting range and the braid is the other factor. I think it is still worth looking at the 2-4kg but it has to be the right one. There is an ArrowZ rod out there which sounds like it would make an excellent cross over for what you are after. It wasn't around when I got into the ArrowZ range. it has an extremely similar spec to the Raider Bream finesse I recommend but I suspect it will be a bit lighter. For the 2-4kg range of rods a 2500 is my go to. For the 1-3kg range then I seriously consider the 1000 sized reels. I've also noticed that for the topwater retrieve the reduced line retrieved per crank on a 1000 reel makes it easier for me to work the lures. To work the lure you are using small pulses of the rod tip. You have to pick up the slack between pulses. It is easier to do pick up small amounts of line with a smaller reel. Conversely, if I want high retrieve speed then I go larger reels as they pick up more line for one wind of the handle.

Hi @linewetter If you are interested and are able to get to either the lower north shore area or Drummoyne area at a time which suits both of us I can show you the gear and you can have a cast and a go. That should help make your decision easier. I have the 1000 and 2500 reels. Also have a 1500 reel in there somewhere. i've got several rods in the 1 to 4kg range. Usually they all live in the car too so I don't have to go out of my way for this. It also means you can throw on some of the lures you are thinking of using and see what you can get out of well set up gear. Be warned that @Bennyg78 will try and steer you to the darkside with his Daiwa addiction. Having said that once you know how the gear handles it is easier to make an informed decision as to what suits you. Which suburb are you based? I'd also like to see your casting technique as that has a pretty big impact on getting the most out of your outfits. Regards, Derek PS. with a bit of planning you could meet both Benny and myself and make a comparison between the different outfits we use.