bisso Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 hi there all raiders, i have to say that it hasnt been the best of weeks for me. my 5 month old tohatsu 70hp has been diagnosed as seized. i caught some weed two weeks ago which sent of the buzzer in the control box. the motor was immediately stopped and lifted to clear the weed. i put it back in the water, restarted it and allowed it to idle. it was pumping water again so i continued to idle it for a minute or so too cool down. headed back to the boat ramp with no further alarms going off. rang the dealer when i got home and he told me no damage could have occurred. as a precaution i took the boat to him for inspection which he told me all was ok (did compression test, all cylinders ok) and i took the boat home. on last sunday morning i took my two young boys out with me, put the boat in at the ramp, turned the key and nothing. motor was locked.... took boat home, removed plugs, middle plug was corroded. took boat to dealer.. got a call on monday to say engine seized due to overheating and not covered by warranty. told it would cost $4000 to repair (complete rebuild, as water got into block and seized at crank). i cant believe that a brand new motor could suffer damage in some two seconds. i thought the warning buzzers and other safety systems in place were there to prevent this from occuring. i wish to note that the dealer advice was from the tohatsu importer and not from the dealer. i was curious as to what all you raiders think of this situation and whether you think (as i do) that there is either a fault with the motor or secondly this is just pure bad luck on my behalf and i have to cop it. i have had outboards for many years and i only bought a new motor because i take my kids out and i want absolute reliability. thanks for your time and i would appreciate your input as to what action you think i should take on this matter. sincerely bisso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrYabbie Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Sorry to hear this report on any motor. I think you should get a second opinion from another Tohatsu dealer as all does not sound right. Cheers, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hard luck on the motor mate I would get a second opinion and if its the same jump up and down and kick and scream alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 If what your saying is correct about how you handled the blockage then there is no way this is your problem. The manufacturer has designed the motor and built in an overheating buzzer to go off BEFORE any engine damage can be done. If you listenend to the buzzer and followed the correct procedure, then took it to a dealer for a check who gave it the all clear, you cant do anymore than that. The ball has to bounce back to the manufacturer who has designed this feature, OR the Dealer has some liability because he gave it the all clear. There was obviously a problem and if the dealer had of picked it up the motor may have been easily fixed before it had a chance to seize. As a consumer all you can do is follow the manufacturers instructions on how to operate their piece of equipment and IF you have done the right thing then it shouldnt be your fault. The backup system of a buzzer should have prevented any major damage from occuring. Fair enough if you had of kept driving it ignoring the buzzer but you say you didnt and need to stick to that. If they try to tell you your basically lying and must have done something wrong go then lodge it with Fair Trading and stick to the fact that you followed the manufacturers warning buzzer procedure. Do not accept this, and take it further as needs. A motor should not seize up like that if treated correctly. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerg Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hey Bisso Condolences on the motor. I personally think that the dealer has some degree of responsibility in this case. If you have taken the motor back immediately upon discovering the problem and they have tested it, and deemed it to be OK, I would be pursuing the situation. I have to say that I have had a similar experience, though nowhere near as sinister with a dealer recently. We purchased a brand new boat, which was delivered to us with half a tank of fuel. I took the family out on the very first weekend only to find that the motor was stalling, and missing. We stalled in the middle of the channel under Gladesville bridge and had to limp back to the ramp. I took the boat back to the dealer to be told that there was water in the fueltank and that it wasn't covered under warranty. As you can expect, I kicked up a stink because it was a brand new boat and the only fuel that had been put into the tank was by the dealer. Needless to say, I got an apology from the service manager and also had the problem fixed. I honestly wonder how much care is taken by some dealers (and not just boat dealers), and how much of what is said has been done, really gets done? I hope you get it sorted quickly! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 A lot of things don't add up here. With the motor's overheating buzzer going off I thought you must take it to the dealer to get it checked out (at least with motors I have owned). I think this includes re- tensioning the cylinder head. I wouldn't think that the brief overheating would cause water to get in the engine either. A complete rebuild (for $4000) doesn't sound right either for water damage. At most you would need a new crank but this should set you back about $2400 plus labour. Also cranks can be rebuilt for a lot less with new bearings and sleeves. PS: I just had a look in my Tohatsu manual and it states the Warranty does not cover water entering the engine. It states this seperately from not covering for submersion damage. Another thought is that if the overheating did cause the water damage it could be classes as an accident and that your insurance will cover it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipknot Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 bisso, sorry to hear about your problem. i have a 2006 model tohatsu 90 and only done about 20 hours so your post is of interest. please post more when you get things sorted. good luck - trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Do not accept this, and take it further as needs. A motor should not seize up like that if treated correctly. and seems to be associated with boat ownership but I agree 100% with what Grant has said in his post - don't lie down and take it, go get 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankles Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 i am with grant & george don't lie down and take it, go get 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisso Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 A lot of things don't add up here. With the motor's overheating buzzer going off I thought you must take it to the dealer to get it checked out (at least with motors I have owned). I think this includes re- tensioning the cylinder head. I wouldn't think that the brief overheating would cause water to get in the engine either. A complete rebuild (for $4000) doesn't sound right either for water damage. At most you would need a new crank but this should set you back about $2400 plus labour. Also cranks can be rebuilt for a lot less with new bearings and sleeves. PS: I just had a look in my Tohatsu manual and it states the Warranty does not cover water entering the engine. It states this seperately from not covering for submersion damage. Another thought is that if the overheating did cause the water damage it could be classes as an accident and that your insurance will cover it. thanks for your post. i believe that this isnt a matter for insurance as i feel the motor has a fault and even a rebuild would not guarantee solving the issue. as regards your first statement, i did take it back to the dealer the following day for inspection and testing. what he did or didnt do is not for me to decifer as i am not a mechanic. my question is in fact, that if the motor has a fault, how do you define whether it is so or not. the problem i am having is get a straight answer from anyone. all dealers seem to be ducking and weaving off the matter. bisso, sorry to hear about your problem. i have a 2006 model tohatsu 90 and only done about 20 hours so your post is of interest. please post more when you get things sorted. good luck - trevor my only advice would be to check your manual thoroughly and make sure your motor has all the items specified in it. my manual stated that my motor has a water pressure sensor, i was told be dealer that it wasnt installed on my motor and tohatsu importers will neither confirm nor deny its existance. i am completely frustrated by tohatsu's lack of initiative on this matter. it now seems that no solution is forthcoming from them and it will now go to tribunal for a solution. so much for good will and customer satisfaction. more like take the money and run. good luck with your motor, hope you dont encounter the same problem i have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 .... it now seems that no solution is forthcoming from them and it will now go to tribunal for a solution. so much for good will and customer satisfaction. more like take the money and run. good luck with your motor, hope you dont encounter the same problem i have. Bisso - some time ago a FR member had a similar issue with a warranty claim from a well known Australian boat manufacturer and wasn't going anywhere fast until he directed that company to the thread on this forum - things changed significantly in his favour after that. Food for thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Bisso - some time ago a FR member had a similar issue with a warranty claim from a well known Australian boat manufacturer and wasn't going anywhere fast until he directed that company to the thread on this forum - things changed significantly in his favour after that. Food for thought! Good advice George......show them how much bad publicity is being created Bisso, I'd fire off a few e-mails while your waiting for the tribunal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_grumble2003 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Thanks also Bisso. I too WAS considering a Tohatsu and now have scrubbed them from my short list, not so much because of the engine itself, as I have heard quite positive things about them, but mainly because of the pathetic customer service (and I use that term very lightly) that you have been confrunted with. Hope things go your way Bisso ............... ARE YOU READING THIS TOHATSU / DISTRIBUTER ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisso Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Thanks also Bisso. I too WAS considering a Tohatsu and now have scrubbed them from my short list, not so much because of the engine itself, as I have heard quite positive things about them, but mainly because of the pathetic customer service (and I use that term very lightly) that you have been confrunted with. Hope things go your way Bisso ............... ARE YOU READING THIS TOHATSU / DISTRIBUTER ! i thought that my best approach on this was to go straight to the top. thus today i sent an email to tohatsu in japan as i wasnt getting any response in australia. hopefully they might stand up and take notice. it was interesting to note that a few of you have subsequently decided against buying tohatsu outboards. i will keep the mentioning of this forum up my sleeve for now pending a response from tohatsu japan. all i can reiterate to you all is, buyers beware, read any warranty properly and ask plenty of questions. if anything is to be taken from this, it is a big learning experience. finally, at this point i am not resorting to bagging out tohatsu australia, i just want them to get off their rich bums... i shall keep you all posted in the near future. thanks for all your assistance and posts, much appreciated. cheers Bisso - some time ago a FR member had a similar issue with a warranty claim from a well known Australian boat manufacturer and wasn't going anywhere fast until he directed that company to the thread on this forum - things changed significantly in his favour after that. Food for thought! an interesting thought, i will keep that under my hat for now pending the outcome from tohatsu japan. my dispute, for the record is with the importer and not the dealer.the importer's claim its not covered under warranty and arent prepared to even look at it. the dealer has infact been very helpful throughout and i have no problems with their level of service. i wont divulge the importer's name but they are on the central coast and they are the sole australian importers. (shouldnt be hard to find out!!) regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen glover Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Contact fair trading or consumer affairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Mate seriously forget Tohatsu Japan i really cant see that going anywhere. What you need to realise is that we have very specific consumer laws in this country and regardless of who the dealer or distributer is, or for that matter what the product is, you have certain rights under the various fair trade laws. It does not matter what the Japanese say, if a product that you purchased has failed through no fault of yours you have the right to have the situation rectified. Doesnt matter what it is or even what the importer says the warranty states. Australian consumer rights superseed any warranty policy, believe me ive been on both sides and seen very clear policy overturned by the CTTT. There are laws which protect consumers againt poorly worded warranty policies and dodgy retailers and if something is not right and you are correct with your info they are quickly corrected to protect the consumer. Do what AG said. Lodge a claim with Fair trading, you can do it online, and go about it that way. If the fair trading cant resolve the issue take you can then take them to the CTTT who will make the decision for them. Document everything, if needs be get in writing from the importer the denial of your claim. DO NOT rely on word of mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisso Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Mate seriously forget Tohatsu Japan i really cant see that going anywhere. What you need to realise is that we have very specific consumer laws in this country and regardless of who the dealer or distributer is, or for that matter what the product is, you have certain rights under the various fair trade laws. It does not matter what the Japanese say, if a product that you purchased has failed through no fault of yours you have the right to have the situation rectified. Doesnt matter what it is or even what the importer says the warranty states. Australian consumer rights superseed any warranty policy, believe me ive been on both sides and seen very clear policy overturned by the CTTT. There are laws which protect consumers againt poorly worded warranty policies and dodgy retailers and if something is not right and you are correct with your info they are quickly corrected to protect the consumer. Do what AG said. Lodge a claim with Fair trading, you can do it online, and go about it that way. If the fair trading cant resolve the issue take you can then take them to the CTTT who will make the decision for them. Document everything, if needs be get in writing from the importer the denial of your claim. DO NOT rely on word of mouth. thanks for your info. i did in fact lodged a claim with the dept of fair trading a week ago. they told me i had to take the matter up with the dealer as he is the one i bought the goods from.i did that and unfortunately, he isnt the one who issues the warranty. net result was importer wouldnt budge on their claim that warranty is void. next option is off too the tribunal. i am in the process of gathering the documentation necessary to support my case including stsat declarations from the two experienced boaties that were with me at the time of the incident. i chose to contact tohatsu in japan just to see how they might respond to this as the australian importer is closing their eyes and hoping i might go away. la la la la la etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantm Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Good work Bisso, see where it goes. Its strange that fair trading said to go to the dealer because they are supposed to help when you cant resolve you issues WITH the dealer Hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Hi Guys, this is an interesting post and unfortunately it is not the first one I have heard of. I will let you in on a rumor about Tohatsu outboards which I have been told many times from credible sources, but I am sure Tohatsu will deny. The problem with Tohatsu is that the importer buys the engine very cheap from Japan WITHOUT any factory warranty and then they cover the warranty here in Australia themselves. Problems arise because they will fight tooth and nail any warranty claims and I have heard of some unbelievable reasons for not paying up on warranty-too many to go into here. As I said earlier this may be just a rumor, but I personally have heard this many times and I am just glad I do not sell Tohatsu outboards, even though I sell Mercury and most of the small Mercury engines (below 40HP) are made by TMC due to the fact that Mercury owns half of TMC (makers of Tohatsu outboards). The good thing about the Mercury is that Mercury covers their engines warranty and pays any warranty claims we may have. Hope it gets worked out. Cheers, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisso Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 progress update......... email i sent to japan to tohatsu must have been sent onto australian distributor. i received an email from them this afternoon telling me it isnt a warranty issue (even though they havent inspected the motor) as obvoiusly there is nothing wrong with the motor. it was interesting to note that they also told me that they will not communicate further direct (i didnt contact them!!) and that i have to go through the dealer. dealer tells me that they issued the warranty so its up to them. talk about going around in circles. oh well, off to the tribunal we go. i shall keep you all posted and provide progress accounts as it goes along. getting a bit sick of this all now. i am sure they are merely trying to wear me down though.. regards bisso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trev Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 This has been an interesting thread. It has made my mind up on what motor I will avoid. By the sounds of it Tohatsu warranty is no good and not worth anything. Trev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluecod Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 By the sounds of it Tohatsu warranty is no good and not worth anything. Certainly seems that way and if a dealer doesn't honour the warranty and then claim back from the importer, why on earth would would you buy any of their equipment - there's plenty of competition around! Keep us informed as to how you progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Unless you have a part failure like the water pump then you have no come back when an engine over heats. I had the same thing happen to a honda which was less than 12 months old. I didnt even get a warning buzzer, light or noticable reduction in water through the tell tail. The engine overheated causing the head to crack and no more honda. Reps from honda came out and checked the water pump etc and found the system to be working so it was put down to some thing caught around the intake. The dealer even told me that it was possible for the engine to overheat with no buzzer/light indicator being triggered . The engine was written off but luckily I was able to claim it on my insurance. The honda rep and dealer said they have never seen it happen to another model. I have known a few guys who have cooked engines and none were able to claim warranty unless a water circulation fault was found. Buzzers or not, you cook an engine and no warranty will cover you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outnumbered Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 doesnt look like your getting very far with it unfortunately mate. this site has helped quite a few people when all looks lost. http://www.notgoodenough.org/ and even if it doesnt at least more people will know who to stay away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think that you should approach Tohatsu directly and explain the situation.If you have followed all the Servicing requirements I am sure they would consider your plight. Let us know how you go as I am sure other members would contemplate buying a different brand of motor in the future if you were given the run around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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