Soft Plastics Rods

[Guest Saqa]

Hi Raiders

Sorry in advance for the long post I am going to make but I have received some great news from my supplier in the states. I am very exited . I have got 3 blanks under development to make what I hope will be the best sp rods on the market and fish hard bodies and bait equally well. The blanks are now almost ready for production so I am requesting input from all raiders on what they consider good features.

The type of input that I need.

1) prefered length of foregrip on each of these blanks

2) prefered length of rear grip on each of these blanks

3) size of reel you would use on each of these blanks

4) Line class you would use on each of these blanks

5) max drag you would use on each of these blanks

As the rods will be built to order the grip sizes can be customised and components changed.

By placing a decent order for the parts I can pass the savings onto the customers and keep the prices undr my targets. But before I can do this I need to work out the best combinations for the two price levels. I will build an initial set in the 3 weights and raiders are welcome to help in the testing. If I can see how the hard users on this forum go with these then I can make them the best avialable priced for people who dont use the word stella in every second post. I will acknowledge the help from raiders on the decal

I want to provide the best features available and price the rods under $300 for the elite version and under $250 for the standard version. I am going to list the hardware I plan on using but feel free to give your comments.

Standard version.

Grips - AAA grade cork (curry-butt a no cost option)

Seat - graphite seat with real carbon fibre insert which transmit max feel from blank to hand and with gold hoods which I have found to have better corrosion resistence then painted or natural hoods

Guides - Fuji new concept alconites or gold Pacific Bay Hialloys in M frame depending on user preference (I recomend the M frames as I have seen better corrosion resistence with these and same performance)

Bindings - size A black with indian gold trims and the lowest build of epoxy to minimise any excess weight on the tip.

Elite version

Only difference will be the guides. I am planning to use either Fuji new concept solid titanium frames with SiC rings or American Tackle Titan guides with solid titanium frames and neolite rings (their version of alconite). Both guides are solid titanium frames with the Titans able to take the knocks a lot better because of the neolite rings and the Fujis more fahionable in Australia because of the minimum exposure their competition have had here. Any search of the rod building forums will show how highly Pacific Bay and American Tackle are regarded by the best builders there.

Info on the blanks. All three blanks are constructed of IM7 graphite. Have xfast tapers. Made for max casting distance and ultra sensitve. The blanks are designed to bring trophy sized fish undr control quickly.

Blank 1 (may name the rod built on this sp max UL)

Length 7' 2pc

Line 1-4kg

Lure 1/32-3/8

Blank tip thickness 1.5mm. This thickness is to my spec and is as thin if not thinner then any other big name sp rod on the market today

Blank butt thickness 13mm. This is the thickness which gives the blank its aggresive taper and action. This will allow you to put the brakes on a decent fish running for cover

Blank 2 (may name the rod built on this sp max L)

Length 7'6" 2pc

Line 2-5kg

Lure 1/16-1/2

Blank tip thickness 1.5mm. Same tip thickness as blank 1

Blank butt thickness 14.5mm. Slightly thicker butt then blank 1 with more power down low.

Blank 3 (may name the rod built on this sp max ML)

Length 7' 2pc

Line 3-6kg

Lure 1/8-3/8

Blank tip thickness 1.7mm. Just slightly thicker then blank 1 and 2

Blank butt thickness 13mm. Same thickness as blank 1 and slightly slower tapered then 1 and 2 to give more overall power and to give a smoother cast from the higher lure rating. This one should be ideal for jew and snapper

Edited April 30, 2006 by Saqa

[Jethro]

G'day Saga

Sounds like they will come up a treat especially for that price. One question... Who manufactures the blanks??

Answers to your questions..

1) prefered length of foregrip on each of these blanks.... around 2.5in for me

2) prefered length of rear grip on each of these blanks... the lighter stick 4in... up to 6 or maybe even 7in for the heavier blanks

3) size of reel you would use on each of these blanks.... 2000

4) Line class you would use on each of these blanks .... 4lb fireline with leaders fron 4lb to 20lb

5) max drag you would use on each of these blanks... I think we have all been in situations where we have had to lock up on a fish..... but once you get a feel for a rod you get to know its limits.

Just one thing... are the blanks available in 1pc?? Its just a personal choice for me but I am not a fan of 2pc rods

[The Iceman]

They sound pretty good so far Saga

For the UL blank a 2.5in foregrip and a 4in reargrip

For the L blank a 2.5in foregrip and a 5in reargrip

For the ML blank a 3in foregrip and a 6in reargrip

I would use a 1000 or 1500 size reel on the UL and a 2000 on the L and a 2500 on the ML

Line would be 2lb platypus braid or 4lb fireline on the UL 4lb fireline on the L and 6lb fireline on the ML

In my opinion the UL and L blanks would make good flats or landbased rods due to their length maybe for later on you could develop a 6ft6in version of the UL blank also they are a bit too fast for HBs where a medium taper is a better option

The UL blank I would use as a bream rod the L a flathead or bass rod and the ML large flathead and jewfish

This is based on my experience only after more than ten years of fishing with soft plastics and I expect you will get a lot more good stuff from the rest of the fishraiders and I would like to help with the testing if needed

[outdoordan]

G'day Saqa,

They sound like a nice bit of gear, and reasonably priced to boot.

Personaly for the UL id like a foregrip of about 2", enough to hold but short enough to rest my index finger on the blank. For rear grip, I like 4". I find this would balance well with the 1000 size reel i would couple it with loaded with 2-4lb braid. Personally i prefer a slower taper for hardbody work but as a SP stick i think it would be ideal.

As for the L, If shortened, I think this would be ideal as a bass stick or a good rod for muscleing bream out of the racks on SP's, While not sacrificing sensitivity. I would like the same fore and rear grips as the UL but would increase Braid to 4-6lb.

The ML to me sounds like a top rod for flicking larger SP's at soapie jews and big Duskies. I'd like a 3" foregrip and a 6-7" rear. I would use a 2000 size reel spooled with 6lb braid.

I also prefer 1 piece rods, If blanks are available it may be an Idea to help cover all basses.

I hope our opinions and preferences are worthwhile, and if you require any road tests I personally would love to give the UL a workout on some big Sydney bream

Cheers

Dan

[Guest Saqa]

Thanks guys

Some more info. I will work towards making them specialist sp rods. I already have some excellent stuff for hard bodies.

The blanks are being done through one of my suppliers in USA. I have invested a fair buck in the development of these. All three are 2pc only. I will have to price them a lot higher if they were 1pc to cover the shipping costs from US. With a 1pc; to get the same taper on the tip the blank will be a lot fatter in the butt and will change the action and power rating completely. If the butt is kept at the same diameter then the overall taper will be slower and change the tips power rating and will not impart the same force to the lighter jigs. The 2pc are made as 2 seperate blanks which fit into each other. The biggest factor is shipping costs. There is a fair choice available in 1pc blanks and I can do a rod on any of these.

Regarding 6'6". This is not a problem. I will add more models once I have sorted these but If any one is interested in one then I do have a current UL model.

Whats everyones opinion on the guides.

[Guest Saqa]

All your opinions and preferences are worthwhile. That exactly what I asked for. Once I have sorted the 2pc models I will start work on a set of 1pc sp models. I hope you all will help me select these from the blanks which are available. For the moment though please continue with the great info.

With these 3 rods I am trying to do 1 better then a very expensive and big name set of sp rods. By the way I thought the trend was towards longer then traditional rods for sp. I have seen all these big name rods over 7' foot being marketed and pushed through the ABT and such.

I will have the blanks in my hands in 2 weeks. Once I have built some of them up I will make up some sort of test schedule and invite all fishraiders showing interest to give them a solid workout. I expect to do about 2 months solid testing and fine tuning before ordering the components in bulk.

[The Iceman]

I dont know enough about guides so Ill wait and see how the rods perform when finished

Ill have to have a closer look at your website

Edited May 1, 2006 by The Iceman

[The Iceman]

Yep your right Saqa the current trend is for longer rods which are better for flats fishing and deep jigging the shorter 6ft6in rods are still there for flicking sps under trees mangroves pontoons and wharfs I fish the ABTs and it amazes me the amount of rods some of the guys carry on their boats of varying lengths and tapers each setup for different techniques Looking forwards to seeing what you are working on

[Guest Jewel]

They sound very interesting so far Saqa.

Foregrip measurement is from the reel foot to the front of the grip.

Reargrip measurement is from the reel foot to the end of the butt cap/rod

For the UL blank a 2.5in foregrip and a 6.0in reargrip

For the L blank a 3.0in foregrip and a 7.0in reargrip

For the ML blank a 4.0in foregrip and a 7.0in reargrip

A 1000/1500 size reel on the UL and a 2500 on the L and a 2500-4000 on the ML

Line would be 4lb livewire braid or 4lb fireline on the UL, 6lb fireline on the L and 8lb fireline on the ML

Drag settings would depend on the leaders/target fish

UL leaders 4/6/8/10lb for bream, flatties, jews, salmon

L leaders 6/8/10/12 lb for rack bream, flatties, jews, salmon 12-20lb for kings, snapper

ML leaders 12-20lb for kings, snapper, stripies

I tend to agree with Icemans statement "In my opinion the UL and L blanks would make good flats or landbased rods due to their length maybe for later on you could develop a 6ft6in version of the UL blank also they are a bit too fast for HBs where a medium taper is a better option."

The casting weights are interesting as with the L while it may cast a 3/8 jig is the tip stiff enough to work it with a large shad type plastic? If so is it comprimising casting with the 1/32 by its stiffness?

I too prefer 1 piece blanks but can understand the shipping issue!

As for the guides the options other than Fuji are nice to see, there is some good stuff out there, Pac Bay and American Tackle are up there.

If you are looking for testers, I more than happy to try something new...... the boat carries Loomis and Daiwa rods and a few customs so your gear would get a fair range to compare against!

Good luck with the new range mate!!!

Cheers

Mick

Edited May 1, 2006 by Jewel

[Guest Saqa]

Whats happened so far with the development is I sent my preferences regarding lenghts, daimeters and casting weights and such to the manufacturer with the question is it feasable and how much. I paid the money for making new mandrels. I have been told that the finished blanks are spot on with the specs but will not know how they fish the weights untill I build one up. With the testing I will be able to determine the true capabilities.

[Guest Saqa]

Hi Guys

1) Even though the butt setup can be customised on individual prefrence I prefer to have the reel seat threads in up position. What is your preference on these.

2) How happy are you with the current grades of cork offered on todays rods?

3) Have any of you tried compressed burl cork (you may have noticed this on some of the pics i have posted) and what is your opinion on this grip material?

[marlin_dc]

Up locking threads are great as it keeps the reel in the same position no matter what reel u are using. Again that's a preferrence option.

As for burl cork. When I was building rods for myself, I used to use a fair bit of burl cork due to its nice texture and feel. However IMHO if u are trying to make an UL rod and trying to reduce the weight, the AAA cork is good enough. Burl cork does indeed add a bit of weight to the rod. This is due to the density of the cork. Something to think about.

Currently I have a Loomis 782 IMX built up with Titan guides and I can\t stop reccommending these guides. For a fraction of the price of fuji guides, you get the quality and slick looks which TI-Sic guides give.

Good stuff mate. Hopfully I have given some input which would be helpful.

regards

DArryl

[Jethro]

G'day again Saga

I take your point on the 2pc rods..... Maybe I still have my mind set on the 2pc rods I used as a kid.... I would be very interested to have a look at one when they are available.

More answers..

1) I prefer up locking real seats. As marlin_dc said it keeps the reel in the same position. Also I find there is less of a tendency for the reel seat to work its way loose as your hand is on the fixed hood

2) I am happy with the current sork I am using. I have bought in a bit A grade cork in from the USA and it does the job. A few imperfections gives it a bit of charater

3) I have played a bit with burl cork. But for full grip on UL rods it will add a fair bit of weight. I mainly use it for but caps

[Guest Saqa]

I totaly agree about the Titans. The titanium frame is extremely lightweight and the rings can take a beating and still are almost as hard and smooth as SiC's

Info for any fishraiders not familiar the terms used in previous posts

Uplocking

Used to describe a reel seat that has been mounted with the fixed hood to the front (tip) and the movable hood to the rear (butt).

[The Iceman]

I prefer uplocking as well

[Guest Jewel]

1. Uplocking

2. Normal cork in the high grades is fine.

[outdoordan]

G'Day Saqa,

1, I am also a fan of an uplocking reel seat.

2, I'm quite impressed with the cork available, even in cheaper production rods like T-curves ect. I havn't tried compressed burl cork so canot comment

Cheers

[Guest Saqa]

Hi all

Excellent info so far.

With the UL, whats more important? Casting performance or working the lure?

Whats the preference? Soft bendy tip or stiffish with quick recovery?

This will help torwards selecting guides.

[Guest fishrunner]

Hi Saqa,

I would prefer a stiffish tip in the UL as I then know what I do to the rod tip I do to the lure, I also find it to be more sensitive and responsive than a soft tip that gives when the lure is jigged or tweaked.

Just my thoughts,

BTW I'ld be up for a test run when you're about next time

Cheers

[Guest Jewel]

No point casting a plastic if you cant make it work!

[Guest Saqa]

The use of lighter solid titanium guide frames from Fuji and American tackle will keep tip action as close as possible to the naked blank. The stainless steel frames weigh the tip down and make it softer

I think I got the previous question wrong. How much importance do you guys give to the tips? Is the use of high performance titanium guides which are also expensive justified to acheive max performance?

Or does anyone actually prefer a noodle tip for visual bite indication?

[The Iceman]

A stiffish tip for SPs Whatever movement you make with the rod must translate to the SP especially when shaking or using flickbaits where short sharp flicks work best I dont think high performance guides matter as much as keeping the weight down

[outdoordan]

G'day

IMO, I believe the majority of your target market would base they decisions to purchase on performance and feel. If this come at a slightly increased price, so be it. By the sounds of things you have sourced quality blanks, I reckon, take them to there potential.

I dont mind paying a little extra if i know it is justified

As for soft tips for visual bite indication, Id prefer a stiffer tip as i am able to manipulate my lure with more control, i rest my index finger on the blank and can feel subtle touches through it on a lift or any other time i am in direct contact with the jighead and concentrate on my line for bite indication when line is limp(after a lift).

Cheers

[Guest Saqa]

i rest my index finger on the blank and can feel subtle touches through it on a lift or any other time i am in direct contact with the jighead and concentrate on my line for bite indication when line is limp(after a lift).

Cheers

How would you feel about having your thumb in contact with the blank, if there was a way?

[Guest Jewel]

I think that the fore finger is more important than the thumb, I have a few baitcasters with exposed blanks through the reel seat which is not bad for sensitivity.