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Tohatsu Seized Problem - The Saga Continues


bisso

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Bisso

I'm sorry to hear your tale mate, especially the way it panned out for you. You got well and truly rammed with no lube.

Can I ask if you had insurance, and whether insurance would cover any of this for you?

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Bisso

My heart goes out to you and the family. I say I can relate as I have had 3 yrs of having to fight to get the simplest of things done (warranty) through Tohatsu in Australia.

I have had Tohatsu before, no problems,

Since 2002 I have had 3 Tohatsu 50 hp motors. FOOL I hear most say. As of last month I now have to agree.

Tohatsu make a great product...... and there are some great Dealers.

The best products will always have some fault be it a design flaw or a coponent failure.

The real test of how good a product is, is how much ownership the PLANT takes for the fault and how

quickly the problem is resolved with a minimum of impact on the customer.

In Australia PRODUCT Support does not exist for Tohatsu customers (or dealers).

If you own one pray you don't need warranty.

If you will bear with me I will give you and others a idea of my dealings with Tohatsu in the past years (3 motors) Much you have been through, some it is too late to help you but may help others.

In 2002 I bought a 50 hp carby model ..Great motor and still going great.

After 6 months I sold it to a mate as the TLDI were getting established and I wanted to take advantage of the lower polution and fuel economy promised .

The TLDI model a was everything it was advertised and more.

30% better on fuel start every time hot or cold, no oil smell and better power.

A dream for the first 50 hrs.

It developed a miss in lower reves. The Dealer was great. Tried everything he could.

However when it came to support ... one answer came back ""only one we know of"" and it a 2 stroke

Basicially accept it.. This from Australian Support.

I didn't accept it. Why should anyone accept less than what they have paid for.

I faxed and rang Tohatsu In Japan (numbers on warranty book) Within a week my fax had made it from Japan to Sydney and to my dealer.

My EM computer was sent to Japan to be analised and reprogrammed.

In the end we were being sent up to three EMC's at a time to try.

Some were programed so badly the boat couldn't even leave the ramp.

This was 18 months after the TLDI was released in Australia.....

Australian Support didn't even have the basic tools to reprograme the management computers.

Support never even came near the motor. Parts had to be shipped halfway around the world because basic tools were not available in Australia.

More letters to Japan and finally just under two years old I was given the option to trade the motor or wait for a Plant Engineer to come out from Japan who would look at it.

$1500 later I had a TLDI model B on my boat.

Strangely I heard that the Plant Engineer visited many dealers in Qld and other states. My old motor I was told was reprogramed on the water by the P E and runs perfectly.

Number 3

The model B started and ran perfectly ...however... unlike the model A the prop exhaust was dirty it had a two stroke smell and it used 30% more fuel...very little better than the carby model I had paid to upgrade from in the first place.

Australian Support answer to the dealer was it will improve when it has done 100hrs.

12 mths later the dealership had changed hands. (over 100hrs) the problem was no better.

Two services and 6months later we still could not get any direction or answers from Australian Support.( basicly if we ignor you , you will go away)

Having tried for 18 months again to get warranty from Australia I again went to Japan.

Within two weeks the dealer was advised that fuel and oil consumption tests would be done.

The results showed the oil pump was putting 20% too much oil into the motor.

Hense the poluted exhaust, smell and supprise supprise my fuel consumption is now close to that of the model A motor.

( I assume the fuel consumption relates to the fuel being less combustable when it has an excess of oil mixed)

Bisso

My problems have been minor compared to yours . The underlying cause is the same.

We bought new motors to relax and enjoy fishing/boating with our families, with the expectation that they would preform to

to the advertised standard and that problems not our own doing would be covered by warranty.

In my case the problems I have had with both motors would have been minor acceptable hickups if (A) basic tools and test equipment was available in australia at the time. Programme the computer on the motor not in Japan (B) Simple tests and a new oil pump could have saved 18months of hassels.

Its sad, Tohatsu do make a good motor, but thousands of dollars to change motors and 3 years of having to go outside the country to force Lakeside to provide warranty....well my motor runs perfectly now but the sooner it falls off the back of my boat the better.

TOHATSU ownes the Product they own the responsibility to have country and dealer support for your motors.

If the dealers or support are not doing their job then Tohatsu have to change them or cease business.

Anyone out there who has a problem with their Tohatsu that isnt getting resolved ...go to the Manufacturer they have no idea of the lack of warranty we get.

Anyone thinking of buying one ...ask about to see what happens when things dont work.

On dealers there are great ones...then there is the one who did the fuel and oil consumption test on my motor.

Picture this ... A boat still strapped to a trailer...A 50hp Tohatsu motor with a load (test) prop doing 5500rpm.

The boat is actually just floating. (with trailer attached)

Lights and bearings are about 60cm under water.

Trailer brake hitch and light connection are about 15cm under water.

Oh yes it is still attached to the dealers ute....(his diff exhaust ect are also under water)

I was told by those fishing nearby that two lots of two hours of testing were done on the boat ramp....The tide came in during testing. Bieleve it!!! I have the photo to show.

And no the dealer did not think it was his responsibility to rectify damage to lights brakes or bearings.

I hope the last bit at least shows that when you think you are up to your ears in berley... you can always count on some B###... to push your head out of sight.

Hope it all works out for you Bisso

Edited by talimba
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well, as i said earlier in this thread, i am the guy who is responsile for introducing Tohatsu to this country all those years ago and i am dismayed to hear of the problems the motors now have. All i can say is give the brand a wide berth and the Tohatsu managers will investigate why their market share is dropping. From personal experiece i can tell you Mercury make a damn good engine and it is backed up by service and warranty that does not look for any excuses. Mind you, i have had a 200hp and a 225hp over the past 3 years and havent had any strife with either of them. Guess i havent had to test the warranty. Guys, cut your losses and trade out of the things.

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the only thing i could add to this is, pity to us poor buggers who own tohatsu engines. no doubt their resale value is crap and its would be a better option to hold onto them until they die. unless you can get a decent trade in on some other brand....

if you really want to vent your disapproval with tohatsu, send an email to their head factory in japan. tell them that you wouldnt buy their engines due to the poor support and assistance from their australian distributor. best way is to go straight to the top... no point telling the aust. mob, as you know they would rather fight you than help...

tell japan what you think of the service in australia... the may just put some heat on the aust distributor, which is beneficial to us all in the long term. sets a precident for all other manufacturers..

you all have my blessing to do so, as i have already done so, but you know the saying about many voices...

thanks for all your posts and replies, will keep you all updated of future news and events..

cheers

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the only thing i could add to this is, pity to us poor buggers who own tohatsu engines. no doubt their resale value is crap and its would be a better option to hold onto them until they die. unless you can get a decent trade in on some other brand....

if you really want to vent your disapproval with tohatsu, send an email to their head factory in japan. tell them that you wouldnt buy their engines due to the poor support and assistance from their australian distributor. best way is to go straight to the top... no point telling the aust. mob, as you know they would rather fight you than help...

tell japan what you think of the service in australia... the may just put some heat on the aust distributor, which is beneficial to us all in the long term. sets a precident for all other manufacturers..

you all have my blessing to do so, as i have already done so, but you know the saying about many voices...

thanks for all your posts and replies, will keep you all updated of future news and events..

cheers

Hey Bisso

Couldn't agree more.

There are a lot of fisho's out there who are in the same boat (so to speak) who have and will loose money because of lack of support, not to mention the GOOD dealers who do their damdest for us but get no help from Tohatsu.

Sad thing is I still think they are a good motor.

If there had been support and basic test/diagnostic tools available to my Dealer when I first had problems with the TLDI model A, instead of my boat sitting in his yard while the Management Computer was being sent to and from Japan to be reprogrammed instead of being done here on the motor, It would still be sitting on my boat . I would still be happily promoting Tohatsu motors.

Instead 18 months of duckshoving and having my motor to and from the dealer, plus more cash and I had a TLDI model B.

Another 18 months of trying to get support and eventually I find that some simple tests and a faulty oil pump replacement and the problem is resolved. ""If support/warranty was approved at 3 months old,I would still be accepting and promoting the product at the boat ramp. Yep I'm going to loose more money

but I won't go through trying to get basic support again.

I'd sell it as an anchor but it would be sure to drag. :ranting2:

BOATING IS TO GET RID OF STRESS NOT CREATE IT. :1fishing1:

Re:- your comment about Manufacturers take note.

A good examle is SUZUKI...it's not that many years ago that you wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

Lousy Support, parts and backup to the dealers and customers saw them all but vanish.

Now with a new Distributer in Australia, and from what I hear great warranty, support and backup service coupled with good product... Look at them grow in numbers on boats everywhere.

All the Glossy Adds in the world won't overcome negative word of mouth of Poor Support, Dud Warranty and lack of service.

Hope your back on the water soon and the rebuild runs sweet for many years to come.

Stan :beersmile:

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I bought a Tohatsu from a particular dealer in Sydney because he was substantially cheaper, (now no longer a Tohatsu dealer). I took it to another dealer for the 10hr service and he was aghast. The carby settings were all wrong and it looked like he hadn't even tensioned the head! Apparently this was normal practice for this guy. He would sell them straight out of the box without a proper pre-delivery service. I saw this dealer at the boat show and he told me a similar tale about Tohatsu dodging warranty claims but now I wonder how many of them were the dealers fault.

The other dealer (whose opinions I trust) told me that he has only had a couple of warranty claims in 20 years of selling these motors and in these instances Tohatsu came to the party without delay.

With regard to overheating alarms on outboards I think you will find that if the alarm is activated it is a bit more than just a warning. The motor will then require dealer attention, including checking the impeller and re-tensioning the head.

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Guys, i took it upon myself to have a chat to a close friend of mine (he helped me launch Tohatsu in 1978 or thereabouts) at the boat show. He is a very senior person in the Brunswick organisation and i relayed the trouble our members are having. I asked him what redress you could/should take and he has given me some contact details in Tohatsu Japan that might prove to be of value to you. I cant say whether anything will come of your complaints but i can tell you Brunswick is very serious about companies they own or part own and they are now aware of the problems here. I will ask his permission to post the contact details on this thread (sorry i forgot to do that) and then, if you so choose, you can send a letter. Hostorically Brunswick has always moved to majority ownership of its investments and it is hard to believe they will be content to be the minor partners in Tohatsu.

regards to you all

Edited by harold
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Guys, i took it upon myself to have a chat to a close friend of mine (he helped me launch Tohatsu in 1978 or thereabouts) at the boat show. He is a very senior person in the Brunswick organisation and i relayed the trouble our members are having. I asked him what redress you could/should take and he has given me some contact details in Tohatsu Japan that might prove to be of value to you. I cant say whether anything will come of your complaints but i can tell you Brunswick is very serious about companies they own or part own and they are now aware of the problems here. I will ask his permission to post the contact details on this thread (sorry i forgot to do that) and then, if you so choose, you can send a letter. Hostorically Brunswick has always moved to majority ownership of its investments and it is hard to believe they will be content to be the minor partners in Tohatsu.

regards to you all

harold, i appreciate your input into this thread. i posted my thoughts and experiences for the benefit of others and to see also what alternatives other members could both address and come up with. it is a pleasure to see all of you chipping in with both advice and support throughout the entire ordeal. many thanks to all. i would like to add that i had a sticker that was to be attached near the steering wheel which stated, and i quote directly from that sticker......."if the warning buzzer sounds, look at the tachometer. if RPM drops, cooling water pressure is low. move slowly to a safe spot and stop. tilt up engine and check that no debris is clogging the water strainer in gearcase." ........ and "WARNING- if the buzzer sounds frequently after you restart the engine, take it to your nearest dealer for inspection" quote/unquote... thats exactly what happened, however i didnt get any further warning buzzers after restarting the engine......... and then!!!!!!!!!! what else can i do? did i not carry out in accordance with what is printed in plain english on a supplied item by the manufacturer and/or importer? i am completely lost... damned if you do, damned if you dont....

Edited by bisso
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Bisso,

If it is the dealer I alluded to (now no longer a Tohatsu agent) he might have stuffed up or done nothing when the motor was brought back for inspection after the alarm went off. With cases of overheating manufacturers do have some wiggle room to get out of warrany claims as who is to say a plastic bag wasn't caught around the water intake. Perhaps you might have had better luck with making an insurance claim.

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Bisso,

If it is the dealer I alluded to (now no longer a Tohatsu agent) he might have stuffed up or done nothing when the motor was brought back for inspection after the alarm went off. With cases of overheating manufacturers do have some wiggle room to get out of warrany claims as who is to say a plastic bag wasn't caught around the water intake. Perhaps you might have had better luck with making an insurance claim.

Hey Bisso

Your saga has been going so long I may have missed it somewhere in the past thread.

At any time since the problem started has anyone from Tohatsu Support in (Australia or otherwise) ever examined your motor to identify the problem. I don't mean the Dealer, but Tohatsu product support?

Dealers are assigned as Agents by a Manufacturer or importer to represent the Manufacturer and provide Service to their customers.

If they are able/qualifyed to do so and the level of training they recieve is in the hands of those who allocate them the agency.

Once the problem is beyond their level of expertise is it not the responsibility of those further up the money/food chain to ensure that a problem is correctly/specificly identifyed and warranty or other provided to the manufacturers customers. Ie. "CUSTOMERS" those people who keep them in business by buying and promoting their product.

Hense the question "has Product support ever examined and given a detailed report on your motor" Not a dealer who may or may not have the tools, training or inclination to do so correctly?

By the way my motors came with the same type of stickers as yours re clearing any type of debris obstructing the water intake.

All the best Stan

Edited by talimba
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  • 1 month later...

for those that have followed this thread to date....

finally picked up the boat and motor today. havent been out since february this year. found that my steering is seized now as it was already aged but sitting around for seven months doesnt help. been out and bought a complete new steering system and trying to complete fitting tonight so we can get otu amongst it tommorrow. the kids are pumped and raring to go. they have been the unfortunate ones throughout this entire ordeal.

so heres to many years of trouble free boating :beersmile:

hope i dont jinx myself.

thanks to you all for your comments and advice.

regards

bisso

note: a water pressure sensor has now been fitted to my engine upon advice from tohatsu. my two cents worth is if you dont have one on yours, ask your dealer for it. i think the next series will have these standard across the range. perhaps something good has come out of this after all!!!!!!!!!

time will tell...

:1prop:

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hey

im very soory to hear of all the pain you must have and been put thru....

but i think the best idea as it was said before... set a date.. get the a newspaper reporter there on that date sell of 30 tickets for $30 each..(id be the first to buy 1) and just wreck it burn it and destroy the whole thing in the front lawn of the dealers property and id love to see that . the look on there face would be worth the $30 a ticket. ex since the 30 ticket holders all turned up with there boats on the back so that the dealer would realise how big a deal this really is

extreme things mean extreme measures...

the dealer is responsible since they are the ones who market the product. well i think so anyway .

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well its friday night, i have just packed the boat up ready for its maiden voyage with its newly rebuilt engine. lets hope its a trouble free event. hope we might be able to finally get amongst the fish now. i have the joy of running in the motor again. twice in one year!!!! :biggrin2:

cheers and happy boating for the long weekend. :yahoo:

bisso

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well its friday night, i have just packed the boat up ready for its maiden voyage with its newly rebuilt engine. lets hope its a trouble free event. hope we might be able to finally get amongst the fish now. i have the joy of running in the motor again. twice in one year!!!! :biggrin2:

cheers and happy boating for the long weekend. :yahoo:

bisso

GOODLUCK MATE, YOU DESERVE SOME AND GOOD FISHING

:1fishing1::1fishing1::1fishing1::1fishing1::1fishing1::1fishing1:

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  • 3 weeks later...

gday bisso,i just read your saga and it scares me. In feb of this year i bought a 90 tohatsu (carbi model),to date i have had trouble free boating and the outboard has been fantastic. Was having the water pressure switch installed the only recomendation from tohatsu????????

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gday bisso,i just read your saga and it scares me. In feb of this year i bought a 90 tohatsu (carbi model),to date i have had trouble free boating and the outboard has been fantastic. Was having the water pressure switch installed the only recomendation from tohatsu????????

honestly, they didnt even recommend it... it was the dealer whom suggested it to the tohatsu rep. like i stated earlier, i dont think overall that they are a bad engine. the only bad thing is when something goes wrong. thats when tohatsu importer (lakeside marine) run for cover. good product/badly supprted....

an interesting fact that has occured since installing the water pressure sensor is that my engine wont rev any higher than 5000 rpm. if i try to go any higher it shuts down to 3500rpm. seems like it is already anticipating an overheat situation once again... i have spoken to the dealer and he is going to perform the 10 hour service since rebuild next week. i will again be interested in the outcome...

so far i can only use 3/4 throttle and havent been able to get beyond that. it seems there is an obvious problem once again, but hey, i am no expert in these sort of things. although i am getting more experienced as time goes on with this sort of thing happening.

will again post info once it is available.

cheers

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  • 2 months later...

update..... motor has been performing fine since rebuild. havent had any major dramas since last post. only a loose carby linkage but in all have been happy to be back out doing what we love.... thanks to all the posts and advice and support from all you guys. it has really meant allot to me and my family and we wish u all the best in boating for 2007.

cheers

bisso

:thumbup::yahoo::yahoo::thumbup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

work was done by both Sorro's outboard services and AMR marine. i can happily say that both are reputible and honest tradesman who know their way around any outboard.... wouldnt hesitate to recommend to others as its hard to find these type of old tradies around these days.... i would rather these guys than a major dealer with a 16yr old apprentice servicing or fixing my motor.... :1prop:

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Customer service no longer what it used to be!Why is it they can not just give a new one in replacement strip that one down,use it for trouble shooting,overhaul it and sell it as a reco.Everyone is happy then.

True warranties mean nothing now,I had a alternater go on the care with 12 month warranty,6 days before it was to expire it went again.When the guy replaced it I said what warranty is on the new one he stated whatever is left on the old one.Which meant 6 days.I questioned it with him and Dept Fair Trading and it was correct.

I did not keep the car much longer anyway but 6 days on a new piece of equipment is a bit rough.

Quality is also out the door in alot of cases.

CHEERS SUFFO

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  • 1 month later...

final post on tohatsu seized.... its been six months since the rebuilt engine has been in use. to date i think we have about 40 hours up on it. starts first go everytime and i am finally getting confident enough with it after all the sh*t i had previously undertaken. in summary, yes i think i would definately buy a tohatsu again but i would also be adding essential items such as pressure sensors etc that were only fitted after my saga, as standard equipment. not just tohatsu but on any outboard...... thanks again for all your posts and hope to see you all out getting amongst the big ones whenever you get the chance....

regard

Mick

:thumbup::biggrin2:

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