Which Way To Vote?

[coollamon]

Hey guys after reading so many different reports and seeing so many tv ads recently

I have found I have been left very confused

Labor (I have been told) will get the majority of the preference votes from the greens,if they dont win the seat they will give there votes to labor and if that happens then there would be more marine parks and restrictions on our day to day fishing is this true??

Liberal would not impose more restrictions on our day to day fishing is this true?

would Peter Debman really pull police off the streets and chop up 20000 jobs ?

Can anybody out there please give me an indication of what the real story is with the greens and what happens to their votes if they dont win a seat?

I want my vote to actually mean something and I belive the better informed you are the easier it is to

do the right thing with your vote

any help you guys can give me would be great

Cheers

Coollamon

Edited March 21, 2007 by coollamon

[caine]

yeah i need help 2

the entire stucture of australian politics is misleading and just plain unjust

you dont even know who your are voting for

preference votes!

fake parties!

vote for some bloke you never heard off for your local member, and then some other guy runs the state.

vote for a party whos name suggests its values agree with you (eg clean up the nepean river party) and your actualy voting for someone you dont like.... cause its a bullshit party created to pull prefrence votes for a either labour or lib.... check you balot paper on saturday. its like 6 feet long and most of them are fake parties

australia should look at cleaning up the system, hate to say it, but the yanks have it much better. australia is based on an english system hundreds of years old.

its really givin me the shits...australia is being cheated every 4 years.

think about it...the system stinks

what if i dont like the local guy but i like the premier or vice versa. i hav to decide which idiot i want to deal with

[Robbielites]

yeah i need help 2

the entire stucture of australian politics is misleading and just plain unjust

you dont even know who your are voting for

preference votes!

fake parties!

vote for some bloke you never heard off for your local member, and then some other guy runs the state.

vote for a party whos name suggests its values agree with you (eg clean up the nepean river party) and your actualy voting for someone you dont like.... cause its a bullshit party created to pull prefrence votes for a either labour or lib.... check you balot paper on saturday. its like 6 feet long and most of them are fake parties

australia should look at cleaning up the system, hate to say it, but the yanks have it much better. australia is based on an english system hundreds of years old.

its really givin me the shits...australia is being cheated every 4 years.

think about it...the system stinks

what if i dont like the local guy but i like the premier or vice versa. i hav to decide which idiot i want to deal with

Geez Cain,

There are a few wild intimations in there mate...

To say that the entire structure of Australian politics is misleading and just plain unjust and you don’t even know who you are voting for is a far stretch of the imagination.

If you spend five minutes on the web you can find out all you need to know, if you spend fifteen minutes you will be allot more prepared.

Yes we have a preferential voting system, but it is made public and is overseen by the AEC and the UN if need be, it has worked for 100 or so years in all our favour.

If you are voting for some bloke you have never heard of and some one else gets a Guernsey it is solely your fault for not sourcing the information before casting your vote, the information is out there and readily available, and why are you voting for him any way?

The last thing Australia needs is an American System where you vote for every one from the sheriff up to the President in one sitting, can you imagine the paper work

Cheers.

Robbie.

[Lasty]

Do people know that you can direct your own preferences. If you only use the number 1 on either ballot paper the preference will be distributed to the party that the party you voted for wants.

However, if you number every box you can distribute your own preference. For example in the upper house (the Legislative Council) if you vote one for the Fishing Party and then 2, 3 4 5 etc and the Fishing Party do not get enough votes to get a seat your vote will go to whover you put the number 2 against.

Sure this takes longer but you can ensure that your vote goes where you want it.

My recommendation would be to vote 1 for the Fishing Party in the Legislative Council and then 2 for the party of your choice.

[Hariklia]

If you want to place your vote based purely on your fishing needs, then the way I see it is this:

In the Lower House the only real choice you have is Iemma or Debnem. But you must temper this with what your local member does for YOU! If your local member is Lib or Lab, that is an easy choice. But if the local guy that you want in is from another political persuasion, then you must really look at where he is directing your vote. What we, as fisherman, must try and do is not allow any more Greens to get a seat. Or any party affiliated with them. This can be tricky, but you glean most of the information needed of that parties how to vote card.

As far as the Upper House goes, there are a myriad of choices. Firstly, you must understand that the Upper House members are selected from all over the state. They won't necessarily be from your electorate. The function of the Upper House is to oversee legislation before it becomes law. They can recommend amendments and ask for points to be clarified or elaborated on, before passing it. If a particular political persuasion has enough sitting members, it allows them the chance of being able to muscle legislation through no matter how unpopular that legislature may be.

Again as fisherman, we must ensure that greens, or their affiliates DO NOT get a seat in the Upper House. If they get just 2 more seats, they will literally control the Upper House. We must also try and not let any more seats slip to Labor.

One way to ensure that they do not get a seat in the Upper House is to have a close look at the groups that you can vote for on the four foot long ballot paper. They have a range of groups that are posing as independents, or even use other party names.

A group of Independents that are TRULY Independent is Group 'M'. They are led by Jack Tait who has a track record of fighting for our rights as fisherman in his local area of Bateman's Bay. He was instrumental in having the no-go zones reduced in the Bateman's Bay MP, and has won the support of all his peers in Batemans Bay. He has banded with a group of like minded people from all over the state to really try and stop the extreme green scourge that has infiltrated our government.

I'm not here to tell you HOW to vote...That is something you have to decide on. But I CAN direct you to some information that may help you make up your mind.

Edited March 22, 2007 by coollamon

[caine]

Geez Cain,

There are a few wild intimations in there mate...

To say that the entire structure of Australian politics is misleading and just plain unjust and you don’t even know who you are voting for is a far stretch of the imagination.

If you spend five minutes on the web you can find out all you need to know, if you spend fifteen minutes you will be allot more prepared.

Yes we have a preferential voting system, but it is made public and is overseen by the AEC and the UN if need be, it has worked for 100 or so years in all our favour.

If you are voting for some bloke you have never heard of and some one else gets a Guernsey it is solely your fault for not sourcing the information before casting your vote, the information is out there and readily available, and why are you voting for him any way?

The last thing Australia needs is an American System where you vote for every one from the sheriff up to the President in one sitting, can you imagine the paper work

Cheers.

Robbie.

look i know nothing about nothing.

but to me the fact that, one can create a party name, for the sole purpose of reeling in moore preference votes, from the average punter who doesnt give enough of a shit to look into it. reeks of deception

also what if i think my local member is worthy but i cant stand the party he/she represents, what then.

dont think im not a proud australian, i just dont like our system of government. its crap. i want to be able to vote directly for the guy i like!!!!!!!

sorry to hijak you post collamon!!!

i also need someone to tell me who and how to vote, as i firmly believe we all here have similar interests and values.

cheers

[huntman]

I know it's confusing to know how to vote, but it's your responsibility to find out how it works, if you consider yourself even the least bit patriotic, otherwise you aren;t taking care of the country that you love so much. But if you must hear it from someone else, then here's my spin:

Short answer: Vote for labor/democrats

Long answer: You cannot just make a party to give preference votes to other people. People make parties so thet they can broker deals with the bigger parties to make them consider the policies they consider important. So the fishing party for example makes a deal with either labor or liberal to allocate them prefernences ON THEIR HOW TO VOTE FORMS ONLY. In the lower house you cannot automatically assign preferences by just ticking a 1. When people talk about giving preferences to other parties it's on their how to vote forms only. Because people pick up those how to vote forms from volunteers at the voting booth and mark it out without thinking. In the upper house, you can just tick 1 and hand it in, because there are lots of different parties and candidates, and it's too hard for most people to mark 1-80 or however many candidates are standing. In the upper house, preferences work how you would expect - you vote for someone and if they don't get in, your votes are distributed where they see fit. They do the research and allocate your vote to the party with the next closest policies to their own.

The reason why I suggest you vote labor is because the federal government is liberal in both houses, so they can pass whatever laws they want. Some of this stuff to me, is even more important than making sure fishing law is handled properly, because stuff like the health of the economy and education affects our family and our wallets, which are really important. State governemnt controls education and police and transport, and those are things that I'd trust labor with over liberal (who like to privatise everythign and make it more expensive). Democrats I reckon are a good middle of the road party. I'll be voting labor in lower house, democrats in upper.

Also something to think about - a lot of people here are anti green party because they think they'll ban fishing in areas, but there is currently talks of putting a desalination plant in at kurnell which will be terribles for the bay, and they are probably the best party to stop that from going ahead... food for thought.

[Penguin]

I remember a few years back in a federal election Kim Beasley got more votes

than little Johnny Howard,yet Howard won government,somehow to me that

doesn't sound right.

What does sound right is we dont need any more Greens (fun police) in the upper house or

anybody who supports them.

Peter Debnam wants to sack 20,000 public sector workers,why? so they can all go on the

dole queue?.Is that smart politics.Shift some of them where they are needed most.

If he wants to cut costs then how about cutting some of the polliticians lerks and perks.

IMO I dont think we have got much of a choice in these elections,to me both major parties

are not much good, and if u enjoy getting out in the bush for a fish or a camp,or to the

ocean for some fishing,one things for sure,dont vote for the Greens.

Good luck to all in your decision this Sat.

penguin

[Kjd]

I'll be voting Labour and the shooters party! I personally believe after some research that the shooters party has it more together then other minority parties and will look after outdoorsmen (shooters, fishermen 4wders horse riders etc) Far better then any other outdoors party.

I wont be voting liberal because a) I don't like my local lib candidate and Peter Debmen isn't a great candidate that does not offer better (in fact far worse) policies then Labour.

[huntman]

true...

but i'd personally rather be able to fish and catch nothing than to not fish at all

greens won't be getting near my vote

CFD

I'm not as cynical as you I think there's a place for having a few greenies in parliament to keep the environment in good shape. I don't think they should hold the balance of power, but I think it's good to have a few there to make sure the pollies don't start doing anything disasterous for the environment.

but as I said above, probably wont be voting for them, there's better options for me. It's an interesting relationship between fishermen and greenies because there are common causes, but also conflict.

[pjbink]

The Shooters Party voted with Labor for marine parks! They have also raised fishing issues only a handful of times in parliment. It is possible that they are a Labor front to curb the backlash from marine parks. Its hurts me to say it but it looks like the only way to break the Labor - Green alliance and the loss of our fishing is to vote the government out. The Coalitions policies on marine parks and angling in general look very good indeed. For those who can't bring themselves to vote Coalition the Fishing Party or the Outdoor Recreation Party would be good choices.

Edited March 22, 2007 by billfisher

[Grantm]

A vote for labour is a vote for more marine parks make no mistake. Its hard to see that the libs have much going for them either although they have a better policy on marine parks.

Any fisho wanting to vote labour is fine and totally your choice, but remember that its Labour who are locked in with the greens who want to lock up our fishing grounds.

This being a fishing site, and if you want to support fishing, I totally agree with Hariklia, a vote in the upper house to remove the green majority is neccessary. I too will be voting Group 'M' above the line in the upper house and support Jack and his team of passionate fishos just like us !

Cheers !

[OWZAT]

G`day Fellas ,

Labor was so on the Nose due to its Marine ParK Swindle and Public Transport , there was no way they were going to win.

There was a reported 9% swing heading towards Labor 4 months out , but , then along came The Libs "TAMPA" .

John Brogdon tried to Kill himself after being white anted by His own Party , and when succeeded by Debnam , he immediately began the "Same Old Slash and burn of The Public Service Krap , parades of the silly hats and walks, etc, etc , but worst of all , floating unfunded billion Dollar spending sprees that were Obviously Impossible.

And look whats happened , Labors gunna romp in .

But If all the Closet Liberals , Greens , and the Opportunist groups Like The Fishing Party and Others , can claw enough Votes away from them , they could at worst Have a Hung Parliment with the Support Of The Greens .

Either way , the Libs have lost The Unlooseable election .

Mick

[Lasty]

A pretty fair summary that Owzat. However, Peter Debnam was only elected leader of the Liberal Party after John Brogden had to resign after he got pissed and referred to Bob Carr's wife as a mail order bride.

[OWZAT]

A pretty fair summary that Owzat. However, Peter Debnam was only elected leader of the Liberal Party after John Brogden had to resign after he got pissed and referred to Bob Carr's wife as a mail order bride.

And then tried to Kneck himself as a result .

Mick

[Little_Flatty]

Important as fishing is to us on this site I can't help but think that we a damn lucky (bordering on spoilt) to be able to base our vote soley on the administration of recreational fishing in this country.

Fishing and marine parks are a consideration, but surely there are other things to think about as well when we go to the polls?

[go-fish]

Fishing and marine parks are a consideration, but surely there are other things to think about as well when we go to the polls?

True.

I have never seen a more corrupted government than the current Labor bunch. Its become so bad that I can't believe a single word they say. I can judge them by their actions however and on that measure they have to go at all costs.

I will therefore vote TFP first, but direct my prefs to Liberal because no matter what they do it can't be worse than what Labor has already done.

[pk-fishn]

politics is a tricky businness!!!

im not of voting age yet (one year off) but i still like to be in the know with regards to policy, economics (study it at school) etc. i support no party yet through looking at bopth parties policies on there webpage "i"would be leaning heavily towards the liberals in this election, even with labors 15milllion dollar campaign (compared with debnams 5million). this is taxpayers money and labors just thorwing it away and putting NSW in a position where we may be facing debt crisis.

Labor has been dominating the ads campaign lately yet there slogan " There is more to do but we’re heading in the right direction" is only a recognition/reflection of previous labour shortfalls and is pretty weak. With these claims of peter debnnam cutting 20000 jobs there has to be some evidence behind it yet they fail to mention it in the ads and surely its an exaggerated figure as the blokes not gong to come in and eliminate jobs so he can ruin the economy and his public reputation (if you look in his policies his claims state that hell be bringing more health workers ie nurses and doctors in, not cutting them.) Furhtermore there claims scrutinise the individuals not evidence of political error etc for eg Debnams failed prawn hatchery, whatdoes that have to do with the big "team game" of politics.

while if you do look at evidence: ive been catching the train to school most of my schooling years and our system as qouted by many overseas and domestic experts "is one of the worst and most complex in the world". Costa failed massively here and now he may be treasurer!!, the cross city tunnel another failure!

NOw if you look at the fishing side of things the liberals back rescue plans in waterways such as parramatta, cooks river and tugerah lakes. They stae nowhere in there policy that theyll back sanctuary/marine park zoning. overall more votes to labor and you have a desal plant more votes to labor and you have greens on their back with sanctuary zoning etc. its a double loss.

yet saying all this id have doubts about both parties yet liberals havent been in pariliament and havent faultered or succeded yet. Good luck and be careful working out who to vote for though its a tricky game!!!

cheers pk.

Edited March 23, 2007 by pk-fishn

[Wetpatch]

politics is a tricky businness!!!

yet saying all this id have doubts about both parties yet liberals havent been in pariliament and havent faultered or succeded yet. Good luck and be careful working out who to vote for though its a tricky game!!!

cheers pk.

If ever I had a doubt about the youth of today, and was worried how they look after the country, then PK has dispelled all those bad thoughts.

Good on 'ya for giving a shit, and providing us with a great analysis!

[Penguin]

And then tried to Kneck himself as a result .

Mick

He stuffed up there too.

Lucky he will never run this state.

penguin

[Burnsy]

I might as well add my 2 bobs worth. I had a chance to meet with Peter Debnam a few weeks back. Interesting how political spin doctors sieze on comments and turn them around. In regards to the much publicised 20,000 public servants, the aim of this was to streamline some of the public service departments of the beuracratic pen pushers who do nothing but waste our money. Most of you would have had some dealing with government/council departments where it is plain obvious that if those departments were actually accountable for the results they acheived they would not be employed.

What is frightening is that this election will be won by the party with the best marketing department not the party that has the best policiies. God help us if the green fruit bats get any more power... We will all be sitting in the dark and walking to our fishing spots

[snapperpete]

Penguin

Hopefully when your mob put in the Hawkesbury bioregion marine park they will all be down the eastern suberbs.

Enjoy!!!

[go-fish]

Penguin

Hopefully when your mob put in the Hawkesbury bioregion marine park they will all be down the eastern suberbs.

Enjoy!!!

It looks like a foregone conclusion now ;(

The fishing party put in a good showing up North. It will be interesting to see how well they did in the upper house. *fingers crossed*.

[gio]

For those interested in seeing how the votes are going in the legislative council (upper house) HERE is the link. The Greens are doing the best out of the minor parties which is a worry

Edited March 24, 2007 by gio

[Penguin]

For those interested in seeing how the votes are going in the legislative council (upper house) HERE is the link. The Greens are doing the best out of the minor parties which is a worry

Thanks for that link,

I was wondering what was happening in the Upper House.

Too many Green votes imo

penguin