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Cane Versus Glass Versus Graphite


luderick -angler

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Hi raiders,

this is one for debate, for many years i have fished with all 3 types of rods from the very early solid glass jarvis walkers to the older glass butterworths and sportex up to the modern kilwell and synder, i have also used the live fibres and somevery good american steelhead IM6 blanks, i now fish with a modern split cane impregnated mk IV from the UK (this is opposedto the older cane rods which were nice but prone to coming unglued due to moisture and the inferior quality animal based glues as opposed to the stuff they use now which holds planes etc together in places!)

Heres how i rate each material and its merits.

Cane: its heavy it can be high maitenence, but by jeez there is nothing like it when you hook a fish, the reserves of power and the uncanny way it acts as a shock absorber is unbelievable, depending on how it ahs been cured prior to it being built up cane is an unbelievably strong material for rodsand in strenght and brittleness is rated only second to carbon fibre/ graphite rods. Cane is a bespoke industry for those with a passion of yesteryear and it's far from cheap with a good modern cane fly rod costing upwards of $500 American! My rasting out of 10 for a rod building material 7 out of 10.

Solid glass: heavy durable and almost unbreakable, if its a rod you nned to take and the situation is you don't want to damage your loomis then this is the stuff a vintage jarvis walker can be just the job off the pier for sharks or big jew, though you need to be he-man to weild them well, still i've had fun using a vintage 8ft jarvis walker live baiting for kings and they do have some stopping power. I rate them 5 out of 10 they are just too heavy for a full days fishing

Hollow glass: The everyday fishermans choice, cheap light easy to weild and they come in all sizes for all purposes, they are easy to repair if you do break your favourite and they don't cost an arm and a leg to replace, glass is making a come back and the glass/ graphite composites were a marvel in their day still are! Whether its for the rocks, pier, boat or a spin they are there tosuit all and are an effective way for the home rod builder to start out. Rating 8.5 out of 10, Slazenger did us a favour 50 years ago.

Lastly Carbon Fibre/ graphite: What can you say! they're light, strong and in any good fisho's hands deadly weapons this iss what revolutionised fly and coarse fishing and it spread to spinning, jigging yo uname it thereis one to serve the purpose even have a steelhead rod madeup for blackies out of this stuff and the hexagraph from Bruce and Walker (google it and you will see what i mean) Not as brittle as cane and stronger still than cane, the price has dropped so just about anyone can get a good SP rod they are not the sole provenceof those with a gfew dollars anymore but as with any rod tghe more you spend the better the build. Rating 9 out of 10.

In conclusion i just thought this would be an area for people to voice how they felt about thier favourite rod material and how theyrate some of the older rods still around to the newer ones, heres mine. A663 sportex built by Chapmans in the late 60's it was Dads and its had a rebuild yes its a little heavy to the hand but for durability and toughnessit excels over any modern glass blackie rod i own and even excels over the kilwell live fibrestick i made up.

Hope you all enjoy the read and i look forward toyour comments.

Cheers

Royce.

P.S my disclaimer: these are my personal experiences and opions and well i hope it gets some of you thinking about dusting off dads antiques for a bit of fun and nostalgia!

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Geez Royce,thanks for reminding me,I've still got an old 663 rod downstairs somewhere-I'm going to have to dig it out and have a go.I've been using a Magbream since a mate gave me the blank for rolling a few rods for him about 20 years ago.I love that rod for its versatility-if not fishing for blackfish I can put a 6"Alvey on it and use it for wash fishing or light beach work.Never had a carbonfibre beach/rock rod but have recently swapped to them for estuary SP/HB lure fishing after a long layoff and just love using them.Scouting around for a 2-4kg blank around 7'6" for flats/beach at the moment.

Cheers,

Dave.

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hmmmmm

so can i ask a question then... in the tackle talk section, ive been talking about my search for a telescopic rod for the beach and rocks... im thinking 3.6m or above, lobbing probably 3 or 3.5 ounce tops.... i prefer some fast taper action, probably top 2 sections of the rod bending but the rest loaded with good power...

which of your said materials would be best???

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danilo,

for strength, versatility and to keep the weight down a modern graphite combo would be ideal but saying that its not the ideal rock rod material, try getting a live fibre blank or a good glass/ graphite combo and have it cut into 3 pieces then spigoted for ferrules it will not detract from the action but is great on storsage and transport, glass/ graphite or live fibre are more durable for rock hopping.

Dave, the 663 the best blackie stick made, i beleive they are as versatile as a mg bream, i've landed a 6lb pig, used it for light bream and whiting fishing off the rocks at Nth Maroubra beach etc, i've been knocked arse over tit with it and it still lives they are near indestructible, i would recommend re doing it and giving the whole rod an epoxy wash to seal the fibres in if the resin is startingto deterioate. Good luck with it!

Cheers

Royce.

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Hi luderick angler. Another interesting and a very informative post!

Talking about solid glass rods....... I replaced a couple of hollow rods broken several inches down the tip with solid nibble tips from a place in Melbourne and it improved the action of these top line estuary rods like you wouldn't believe..... One was a 1979 yankee Sh/pre limited edition 15lb President rod which was made trippled wrapped to get some of the market back from their own ugly stik sales ....... The other one was a 25lb bigwater ugly stik, the yankee one with the big 50mm first guide...... The nibble tips came in sets of three and I used the medium one for my President rod and the heavy nibble tip (also very sensitve) for the bigwater rod and you seem to hook up at every bite, even a shiver and shake because of the springy action of the nibble tip. The light nibble tip , the red one tip is super fine and you sure would have some game fish style fun playing salmon or bass with the light nibble one meant for baitfish.

I had to hacksaw the rods down to be able to push the nibble tips in about 2 1/2 inches, the nibble tips are about twenty inches long, so you finish up with a very strong tip but much more sensitive rod and these nibble tips really make the backbone strength stand out so much more.

So if you ever happen to damage the tip area on one of your old favourite rods just give me a yell.

Cheers

jewgaffer :1fishing1:

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Hi Fishraiders,

What a topic! Where to begin?

I guess by being grateful. I suspect I'm like a few other contributers to this post. I came onto the fishing scene around the time that rangoon cane and solid glass rods were being phased out and the first amazing new hollow glass rods by Slazenger and hollow glass Sportex blanks imported from Germany were turning up.

Can't say I was sad to see the end of rangoon cane and solid glass (both being more suited for use as gaff handles or garden stakes than fishing rods) but I still have my old 13' Sportex 3903 luderick rod, a superb tool for taming big blackfish off the rocks. And remember those old brass ferules that would stick if they corroded? Or would wear and become loose. Not nearly as good as modern glass or graphite ferrules built into the rod.

Sorry Royce, I can't really see much use for cane and solid glass anymore. I know some older trouties get very nostalgic about new hand-crafted or vintage cane fly rods, but I've never been able to understand why, even though I'm a big fan of the writings of John Gierach.

The reason hollow glass, graphite/glass composite, and high modulus carbon graphite have taken over is that they are so much better for making fishing rods. But of course, the basic material from which a rod is made is only one factor in determining how it performs.

Just as important IMHO is the taper of the blank, and also the quality of the resins that hold everything together. It's here where I reckon the big breakthroughs have occurred.

I can remember my excitement when I bought my first Butterworth/Schneider multi-taper blank, it was so much faster than the old hollow glass blanks that we had been using. I still have my old MT 7144 "beakie pelter", but it now pelts WA pilchards. And thirty five years on you can still buy the blanks, so they have withstood the test of time.

But the new space-age epoxy resins have made the greatest difference. How did we get buy before them? Not only have glass and carbon graphite blanks become so much lighter but they are incredibly responsive due largely to the strength of the resins used.

As for the differences between hollow glass and graphite, I have more than a dozen of each, and a few composites too. Up to about fifteen years ago, I was a bit wary of graphite and only used it for my fly rods.

But over the years graphite has got better and better, to the stage where the last three rods I've bought, a two-piece 7' light threadline rod for fishing soft plastics, a three-piece 7' medium-heavy travel baitcaster rod and a two-piece 8'6'' medium-heavy baitcaster rod, have all been high modulus graphite.

I enjoy using my hollow glass rods, and I'll continue to use them. But if I were starting out now I'd go for graphite for most of my rods, perhaps with the exception of those intended for use off the rocks, which could receive rough handling.

There's no stopping progress.

Regards,

Bob

Edited by kenmare
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Thanks for the replies all,

having used all the different types of materials i really don't have a favourite it tends to be a rod for the occassion and at times i get a thrill out of using my bespoke cane rods on big estuary bream and blackies then i also love my old sportex 3902 out the doughboy chasing big rock blackies, hey by the way kenmare i did prefer the 3901 and the 662 they were just t hat bit more sensitive, and i do love the older rods they have that bit more weight to them feel right in the hand for bait fishing as for sp's and lures etc graphite has been the wonder rod, yeah still gotta love the multi tapers though nothing compares to cutting 6 inches out of the tip of a 3904 and turning it into the ultimate jew stick!

Cheers

Royce.

P.S i'm only 32 but i was forever grateful to learn to fish with a rod that meant playing the fish not killing it with the likes of some of the telegraph poles you see people catching bream with wheres the fun, my experience last year was catching 3lb bream on a Slazenger B15, 6lb leader and a 4 inch centrepin was the funnest of times though i lost a few!

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Thanks for the replies all,

having used all the different types of materials i really don't have a favourite it tends to be a rod for the occassion and at times i get a thrill out of using my bespoke cane rods on big estuary bream and blackies then i also love my old sportex 3902 out the doughboy chasing big rock blackies, hey by the way kenmare i did prefer the 3901 and the 662 they were just t hat bit more sensitive, and i do love the older rods they have that bit more weight to them feel right in the hand for bait fishing as for sp's and lures etc graphite has been the wonder rod, yeah still gotta love the multi tapers though nothing compares to cutting 6 inches out of the tip of a 3904 and turning it into the ultimate jew stick!

Cheers

Royce.

P.S i'm only 32 but i was forever grateful to learn to fish with a rod that meant playing the fish not killing it with the likes of some of the telegraph poles you see people catching bream with wheres the fun, my experience last year was catching 3lb bream on a Slazenger B15, 6lb leader and a 4 inch centrepin was the funnest of times though i lost a few!

Royce,

You make me feel so old.

Not sure about your Sportex numbering though. I used three Sportex rods when I was seriously chasing blackfish off the Sydney Rocks: a 541 (about 10'9'' and too short), a 662 (as you say, a bit light), and a 3903, which I preferred to the 3902 after my experiences with the two-wrap 662.

If I recall correctly, the 3904 was best used as a light beach rod. Are you sure you're not thinking of a shortened 3906 as the ultimate jew stick?.

In its full length form the six wrap 3906 was commonly used in the 70s for heavy bottom fishing for snapper and also with a Seascape reel for casting lures to tuna and kingfish (at least up until shorter, faster taper and lighter alternatives came along).

I still have trouble understanding what's good about cane or solid glass fishing rods. But to each his own.

Tight lines,

Bob

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Royce,

You make me feel so old.

Not sure about your Sportex numbering though. I used three Sportex rods when I was seriously chasing blackfish off the Sydney Rocks: a 541 (about 10'9'' and too short), a 662 (as you say, a bit light), and a 3903, which I preferred to the 3902 after my experiences with the two-wrap 662.

If I recall correctly, the 3904 was best used as a light beach rod. Are you sure you're not thinking of a shortened 3906 as the ultimate jew stick?.

In its full length form the six wrap 3906 was commonly used in the 70s for heavy bottom fishing for snapper and also with a Seascape reel for casting lures to tuna and kingfish (at least up until shorter, faster taper and lighter alternatives came along).

I still have trouble understanding what's good about cane or solid glass fishing rods. But to each his own.

Tight lines,

Bob

bOB,

I'm sure theone i have got is the 3904 and it was built by southams at Artarmon, it was lighter than the 3906 and if you cut the tip out it stiffened the taper up to make a great jew stick i remember seeing an article in an old fishing mag of Dads, i sold and now regret and 804 a few years back and this thing was heavy.

And don't feel old i like the sort of stuff you bring to the this thread! Heres one remeber Conlon and Grizzly rods now they were top stuff along with the early Fenwick fly rods!

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bOB,

I'm sure theone i have got is the 3904 and it was built by southams at Artarmon, it was lighter than the 3906 and if you cut the tip out it stiffened the taper up to make a great jew stick i remember seeing an article in an old fishing mag of Dads, i sold and now regret and 804 a few years back and this thing was heavy.

And don't feel old i like the sort of stuff you bring to the this thread! Heres one remeber Conlon and Grizzly rods now they were top stuff along with the early Fenwick fly rods!

Hi Royce,

Speaking of old Conlon rods, I once made up a Conlon 505 to go with a big Mitchell 499 threadline I started-out "high-speed" spinning with. I've since sold the 499 (another regret), but the Conlon 505 met an unfortunate and untimely end.

After landing several decent kings from the rock platforms south of Jervis Bay, I was coming back up a narrow track lined with overhanging tea trees with a "mate" who was in a hurry to get home, my rod strapped to the top of his car, when there was a loud bang. My one-piece Conlon 505 had been instantly converted to a non-ferruled two piece. A tragic end to a nice rod.

Some old timers on this site (I hope there's not only me) might also recall the sensation caused when the first super-fast-taper Browning Silaflex blanks hit our shores. Extended with a length of aluminum tube, and teamed with a highly geared overhead reel, such as a 6 to 1 Seascape, they soon became weapon of choice for high-speed spinning the coastal headlands up and down the coast.

Back in those days we used to stand on the big rock platform at the southern side of Devils Gorge and cast to acres of yellow-fin, mack and striped tuna as they swam by. All that was before the popularity of sashimi and long-lining for the Japanese market, of course.

Are you still allowed to access the big rock platforms through the Beacroft Peninsula gunnery range? I heard it is all now out of bounds.

Ahh, the good old days.

Regards,

Bob

Edited by kenmare
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