Kings And Jews

[Boban]

Kelvin,

I must say thank you for the time you put in addressing my questions. I know that it was not a simple case of typing a few lazy words.

I am relieved that the Furuno you have is not one of the $5,000 plus models I've seen. I was looking at the 585 and saying to myself, that's about as much as I want to spend. That said, I've never been able to control myself when it comes to tackle.

Again thank you and see you on the water.

Cheers

Mitch

[namesay]

Jewgaffer- if you buy a sounder it comes with a special bunch of papers called an instruction manual. It has all the information that you need. If you need additional information then there are several good books. Most are biased to one brand...lowrance but you get the general principals. THere are even DVD's.

However, no matter what you know or what lessons are given it is time on the water that is required to get any sort of mastery. Cheers kelvin

[Red]

And a healthy grapevine

Cheers

' Red

[namesay]

Kelvin,

I must say thank you for the time you put in addressing my questions. I know that it was not a simple case of typing a few lazy words.

I am relieved that the Furuno you have is not one of the $5,000 plus models I've seen. I was looking at the 585 and saying to myself, that's about as much as I want to spend. That said, I've never been able to control myself when it comes to tackle.

Again thank you and see you on the water.

Cheers

Mitch

Furuno have models that cost far more than that. Most of the cost of a sounder is in the size of the screen and the tranducer. The 585 is the best money/performance deal out there at the moment. I am sure there will be better models in the years to come but this sounder out performs units which are much dearer.

I have known a few game boat owners who have ripped out their mega dollar sounders and replaced them with the 585.

The 620 is almost as good as they share the same processing systems. CHeers Kelvin

[Yabbiehunter]

This is the by catch today. Went 93cm. Happy we got some flatties on lures!!!

Thanks Greg for the cuttles.Cheers Kelvin

LOL i got a plug. No problems Kelvin anytime, it was you that told me how good of king baits they are, before that i had no idea. and today proved how good of bait they really are, i now wish i stayed and tried to catch more, they were real nice size baits, cant wait to try them again....even if they are ugly things. Another enjoyable day on the water. Top effort Kelvin

p.s Now we are even for the time i caught no squid........i told you i would buy a new combo hehehe

Edited December 2, 2007 by Yabbiehunter

[jewgaffer]

Jewgaffer- if you buy a sounder it comes with a special bunch of papers called an instruction manual. It has all the information that you need. If you need additional information then there are several good books. Most are biased to one brand...lowrance but you get the general principals. THere are even DVD's.

However, no matter what you know or what lessons are given it is time on the water that is required to get any sort of mastery. Cheers kelvin

Namesay with respect as a fellow member, you have found something special in the art of fishing, almost unique I dare say, but I feel you are selling yourself short, and underestimating your own hi tech species finding and to that I would add targetting ability, and you may be overestimating the fish finding ability of other fishermen. Not many fishermen are successfull at finding fish and indentifying the species.

Books and videos are readily available and obviously have been sold in thousands if not millions.

At this point of time how many fishermen can just go out there get those results and we are seeing jewfish almost targetted between the eyes.

You can see by the number of posts that what you have gotten onto here may well be unique and it is quite an achievement.

To use an anology or let's say we take just one small step forward - If every one else was able to launch remote control lures towards the mouth of a targetted fish and pester and irritate it to the point of having the fish snap back terratorially and let's say even in shutdown mode, the waterways ways would be fished out in no time but well before that big brother would have stepped in and you woudn't see one or two isolated reports, in addition to your own, you would see headlines.

With respect Namesay, you have got some excellent results, but I am only saying what I, myself relate to and believe.

Regards

jewgaffer

Edited December 2, 2007 by jewgaffer

[namesay]

Namesay with respect as a fellow member, your are selling yourself short, underestimating your own hi tech species finding and to that I would add targetting ability, and overestimating the fish finding ability of other fishermen.

Books and videos are readily available and obviously have been sold in thousands if not millions.

At this point of time how many fishermen can just go out there get those results and we are seeing jewfish almost targetted between the eyes.

You can see by the number of posts that what you have gotten onto here may well be unique and quite an achievement.

To use an anology or let's say we take just one small step forward - If every one else was able to launch remote control lures towards the mouth of a targetted fish and pester and irritate it to the point of having the fish snap back terratorially and let's say even in shutdown mode, the waterways ways would be fished out in no time but well before that big brother would have stepped in and you woudn't see one or two isolated reports, in addition to your own, you would see headlines.

With respect Namesay, you have got some excellent results, but I am only saying what I believe.

Regardss

jewgaffer

Jewgaffer, fishing is a dynamic, constantly evolving situation. There are people out there who try things or discover an insight. Pretty soon it becomes common knowledge.

For example, Bream on lures was thought to be some sort of a sick joke. Now whole tournaments are held with big prize money. Whiting on poppers ..who would have thought it was even remotely possible!!! Circle hooks- when I first saw one, I thought it was a defect.

Now we have some excellent hardware to help us. Things like downriggers, electric motors, sounders, mobile phones ( good for the grapevine..Red! ) , gps..etc.

We are also finding that jews take lures readily and those pelagic fish aren't really pelagic! It took a bloody long time but people are now figuring out that marlin can be targeted down deep rather than just on the surface.

I like to stay at the forefront of our sport. It makes things more challenging and fun. As I have previously stated, without the challenges once we have figured out a species to a certain extent all we are doing is culling the numbers!

Recently downrigging has gained huge momentum. I see them stuck to more and more boats. When I first bought a downrigger the guys at the shop didn't even know what it looked like. Having explored downrigging for a considerable amount of time I have found it to be frequently less effective than other methods. I am using my downrigger less and less while my ability to spot the fish becomes more acute.

I am sold on the idea of stealth. In that regard the presence of a boat in the water is the biggest handicap.Just see those salmon sound when a boat comes around.

It is obvious that stealth is THE key to find fish without disturbing them. If the fish scatter from yout boat then, it doesn't matter what type of electronics you have....you will find NOTHING!!

I know of atleast 2 spots where jews can be taken regularly on lures from the shore but never from a boat! I believe this is one of the reasons why land based fishos tend to land the biggest kings here in sydney. They have far more restrictions but year in and year out they get to hold some massive hoodlums.

For ages anglers have known that a lighter line will ALWAYS get more strikes. You can extrapolate this to everything else including the sound you make on the water, the shadow your boat casts, The presence of an anchor rope, the presence of a downrigger bomb and wire ..etc. There may be times when fish may be attracted to something new like a flasher or an attractant but stealth will always be consistent. To give you an idea, I have had many many occasions fishing in 120-150m of water and having a MASSIVE shoal of kings under the boat only to see them literally scatter as soon as the engine is turned on. There are some charter operators who constantly have their big diesels turning as they fish. Guess who catches less fish.

Even today with the harbour full of fishermen and most guys getting rats and donuts, we managed to pull in a couple of respectable kings from right under the noses of others. The flathead were more gratifying for me but I am told by Tony and Ophet that I have lost it compeltely.

So evolving the techniques isn't anything new or unique. I would love to find a way to land EVERY fish we hook as it was frustrating today with a couple of missed jewie strikes!!! Most of us will contribute to the growing knowledge and it is the challenges which makes fishing what it is otherwise it wouldn't be called angling but "killing fish"! Cheers Kelvin

Edited December 2, 2007 by namesay

[Yabbiehunter]

With respect Jewgaffer, Kelvin and other fishraiders seem to catch a lot of fish but they release the majority. I think our waterways are pretty safe.

I've been reading Kelvins reports for a while now and like you he offers a lot of very helpful information and advice to those of us who don't get as much time on the water.

RobMc

Ditto

[jewgaffer]

I agree that a quality sounder today is the key to succes in many regards. Stealth can be a major factor on inshore species, but I still believe that the more raquet you can make whilst offshore, will more likely raise the "higher positioned" pelagics in the food chain to come and inspect.

Last week in the Whitesands tournament, there were 8 Marlin caught. Of these, 6 were landed off boats over 35ft in length! There was only about 6 boats in the Tournament that are of that size!!! The rest were 24ft and under pretty much.... there must be a link in to the pure sound and emissions you get from a massive 40ft boat with Diesels as opposed to a tin can with a whiper Snipper on the back.....

Love your work Kelvin, thanks for the time and effort your putting in to your posts after a long break. Most informative and EXTREMELLy educational. Looking forward to practicing some of your techniques in teh near future.

Red- going to call you soon for catch up.

Cheers

Anthony

Wise words Anthony, all good. Kelvin's topic has aroused good interest and has resulted in an education in what is achievable, and a healthy debate and has provided some excellent tips and advice which is a credit to the site.

I believe debate is part and parcel of the topic itself which not only shows Kelvin's excellent fishing results, it is inspirational and provides further knowledge and understanding of what is available in technology today to enable a fishermen to locate fish more accurately by using a high quality sounder.

It is then up to the angler to experiment with the probabilities in identfying the species and working on better ways to catch them using the technology available to the best advantage. In fact this is one of the best topics I have found on fishraider and I rarely look into older topics.

As to stealth, the hook up rate is much faster and light gear in estuaries where I fish mostly is essential to swim soft plastics effectively. I fish at anchor myself and it does take certain species some time to get used to the boat in the water. I must say I rarely get a quick hook below the boat up on the non casting alvey. I have been hit in general about 20 or 30 mtrs from the boat. I am primarily a bait fisherman and after a while fish get used to the boat and come up underneath to inspect it as do baitfish which often swarm around boats.

When I accompanied Steve (Barker) trolling for kingfish off Malabar several weeks ago kingfish followed some of the hook ups right up alongside the boat and were prolific in about 6 foot of water around Barker's boat. Some fish are far more sensitive. However when I fished with Pocus at Taren Pt a few weeks ago we were casting into tailor schools which were being visibly scattered by jew about five metres from the boat and Pocus, as seen in my report landed his first jew in the melee.

I am looking forward to practicing Kelvin's techniques myself but first of all I have to update my sounder and I will buy a furuno 585 as recommended in this topic.

I have learned a lot from this topic, I am a senior citizen and no one is ever too old to learn something new and, to keep up to date in better fishing methods particularly in new areas is entirely up to me.

With the difficuties I am having in understanding the functions of a sitex sounder I do need a little help in operating hi tech electronics.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[namesay]

I agree that a quality sounder today is the key to succes in many regards. Stealth can be a major factor on inshore species, but I still believe that the more raquet you can make whilst offshore, will more likely raise the "higher positioned" pelagics in the food chain to come and inspect.

Last week in the Whitesands tournament, there were 8 Marlin caught. Of these, 6 were landed off boats over 35ft in length! There was only about 6 boats in the Tournament that are of that size!!! The rest were 24ft and under pretty much.... there must be a link in to the pure sound and emissions you get from a massive 40ft boat with Diesels as opposed to a tin can with a whiper Snipper on the back.....

Love your work Kelvin, thanks for the time and effort your putting in to your posts after a long break. Most informative and EXTREMELLy educational. Looking forward to practicing some of your techniques in teh near future.

Red- going to call you soon for catch up.

Cheers

Anthony

I agree completely in regards to the blue water. However, I was referring to the kings and especially jews. I think with the "higher positioned"pelagics they really have near zero predators which makes them bolder.

Jewgaffer, when the kings are fired up it is all too easy to catch them. They will hit almost anything that lands on the water but if you want to catch the bigger fish or get them when they are sulking then being stealthy can have huge dividends.

You got to remember in many shallow areas fish spook easily. IN recent times in one of our spots the jewies rarely bite on lures if there is a boat anchored nearby. If you ever look at Greg Joyces jewfish secrets DVD, he goes into anchoring a little. He does not use any chain and definitely believe a dragging anchor is one of the best ways to put the jews off the bite.

I guess it is all about small details which can make a difference on a difficult day and that is the difference between a good or bad fisho. Cheers Kelvin

[R_Zee]

just a couple of pics of the jews we got on lure.

Peter's was 15lb

mine 8lb

kelvin got a 93cm king yesterday and actually said "its a fu**ing king" haha!

he was jumping around the boat when he got the flatty... he's lost it!

R_Zee

[namesay]

Nice photos. I wonder who took those! Cheers Kelvin

[oldsalty]

lol, what gear does kelvin use to target flatties that can also stop a 93cm king!

[jewgaffer]

Seeing the ongoing slow release of these amazing photos, makes you want to rush out and catch only big fish in huge numbers and for me personally, following this topic is a like a high speed release of super vitamin tablets.

Cheers to all of you involved in this awesome reading and don't stop, keep it coming.

jewgaffer

[R_Zee]

lol, what gear does kelvin use to target flatties that can also stop a 93cm king!

its called the Kelvin special combo and u cant get it at GOLO

Edited December 3, 2007 by R_Zee

[oldsalty]

its called the Kelvin special combo and u cant get it at GOLO

golo?

[namesay]

golo?

Don't ask how mcuh fishing tackle I own!!! I think Tony was saying he has over 30 rods. I am not too sure about how many I own but I think I can open up a tackle shop one day.

I use all high end gear and most have served me well. The only disappointments have been a few reels from a japanese company starting with d. They are being retired from active duty. Great when they are working but too many problems with basic stuff. Might as well bought the stuff from Go-Lo...cheers Kelvin

[keenas]

Congrats on your fishing trips and

providing helpful info; Have you still got the

noble ? didn't look like it in your photos

[namesay]

Congrats on your fishing trips and

providing helpful info; Have you still got the

noble ? didn't look like it in your photos

I have several boats. There is no one boat that can cover all situations. The boat in the photos is specifically for inshore and close offshore. THe Noble is my offshore boat. It gets to do a lot of miles. I used the Noble inshore for about a month last summer to run it in.

I am constantly testing out new boats. Just keeping an eye out for what is available out there. Last week I tried out the new contenders. Very good boats but the 23ft version was a little too small and underpowered. WIll be testing out a 25ft.contender but my Noble won't be leaving my garage!!! She is one tough and comfortable boat and so far I have yet to find a boat that is better.

The noble has incredible fuel economy/performance for a boat in its size range and handles the offshore conditions with ease. I feel very very safe in it. The only problem with the Noble is when the fishing hots up inshore!!!! It gets to rest at home when this happens. Still do about 300-350 hours on the motor on the Noble each year. Cheers Kelvin

Edited December 3, 2007 by namesay

[namesay]

just a couple of pics of the jews we got on lure.

Peter's was 15lb

mine 8lb

kelvin got a 93cm king yesterday and actually said "its a fu**ing king" haha!

he was jumping around the boat when he got the flatty... he's lost it!

R_Zee

That is a really nice outfit TOny. That combo has been pretty good to you. Everything from kings, flathead,salmon, tailer , now jews and squid!!! The go anywhere combo. Did you get it at Go-Lo?? Cheers Kelvin

[R_Zee]

That is a really nice outfit TOny. That combo has been pretty good to you. Everything from kings, flathead,salmon, tailer , now jews and squid!!! The go anywhere combo. Did you get it at Go-Lo?? Cheers Kelvin

For you who dont know.

If you can tie your knots properly and have confidence that your 20lb iron braid doubled will hold 6kg of drag you can easily fish for anything from squid to serious kings.

The combo is a Shimano Stella 4000 on a Daiwa Saltiga Dorado A-Rounder 70S.

A-Rounder for All Rounder. have lost a few bigguns but i cant say i have landed half the serious kings i hooked on my 20000 Stella.

I am happy to land less fish as im doing it more and more for the sport.

We are only keeping 1 or 2 fish per person anyway and its heaps more fun on the lighter gear.

We set our drag using scales and 6kgs is a fair bit.

Kelvin sets his Torsa on 8kgs and i dont really think an angry king will give you time to go to sunset... not where we fish anyway.

I have spent hours at Kelvin's house getting tips on bettering the knots and which to use on different brands of line even. Iron braid is dry, Fire Line is glossy and slips if you're not careful so you use a different method to join to the leader. All tips were demonstated by the way of scales and breaking points are documented on excel sheets that even the manufaturers will pay for

Dr Kelvin spends hours at home reading about tackle and fishing in general.

and spends more time on the water than most charter operators.

its all about how much you know when you're out there.

R_Zee

[namesay]

For you who dont know.

If you can tie your knots properly and have confidence that your 20lb iron braid doubled will hold 6kg of drag you can easily fish for anything from squid to serious kings.

The combo is a Shimano Stella 4000 on a Daiwa Saltiga Dorado A-Rounder 70S.

A-Rounder for All Rounder. have lost a few bigguns but i cant say i have landed half the serious kings i hooked on my 20000 Stella.

I am happy to land less fish as im doing it more and more for the sport.

We are only keeping 1 or 2 fish per person anyway and its heaps more fun on the lighter gear.

We set our drag using scales and 6kgs is a fair bit.

Kelvin sets his Torsa on 8kgs and i dont really think an angry king will give you time to go to sunset... not where we fish anyway.

I have spent hours at Kelvin's house getting tips on bettering the knots and which to use on different brands of line even. Iron braid is dry, Fire Line is glossy and slips if you're not careful so you use a different method to join to the leader. All tips were demonstated by the way of scales and breaking points are documented on excel sheets that even the manufaturers will pay for

Dr Kelvin spends hours at home reading about tackle and fishing in general.

and spends more time on the water than most charter operators.

its all about how much you know when you're out there.

R_Zee

What about that time I thought you were free spooling my torsa on that runaway ray! How much drag was that! CHeers Kelvin

[namesay]

The ability to find fish results in pictures like these

THis is Shane with a fish well over the good ole meter. Jigged up in 120m of water.

THis is Michael the jigging machine. He is only a little guy but managed to jig this fish up all by himself. Ophet even has some you tube footage of him. It makes us all feel good to see him jig up the kings.

Ho hum! Tony with another meter plus fish. We caught many fish which were bigger and lost many more still!!

This is the little one with a little fish. Unlike his older brother he is too small yet to jig the kings himself. Has to settle for jewies instead!

I only wish I had some photos/video of my attempts to live bait for humpback whales but none exist. Cheers Kelvin

Edited December 4, 2007 by namesay

[namesay]

This is my favourite recent photo- not because of the fish but the little guy under it. It was in my last report but that shot of Michael the jigging machine really cracks me up. Looks like I have been doing pretty good with bait donated by my mates. It was Greg yesterday and it was Oz and Steve for this fish. Thanks Guys!!!

Edited December 3, 2007 by namesay

[caine]

id like to to see little man battle the king can you post a link to utube