Marine Park - Hawksbury Shelf?

[hottyscotty]

We are not going to stand for any more of this bullshit.

It is time to band together and show these fools how much power we all have collectively.

If anyone has suggestions on this ? please forward them to fishraider@iinet.net.au

We are going to make some NOISE !!!!!!! and a lot of it.

Regards Admin

i'd definitely make some noise. surprised a petition hasn't started yet.

its a narrow viewpoint but imagine the millions or possibly billions of dollars lost. how many would go out of business? especially the small business owners. it'll be like evicting them out of nsw. i hope the various tackle chain stores and big department stores make some noise too.

edit: i remember this petition website, i think this is what brought the monaco bar back. but back to the point. no petition has been started on this site

http://www.gopetition.com.au

Edited December 4, 2008 by hottyscotty

[deana]

It is good this is all merged

Everyone can start by e mailing Carmel Tebbut mailto: dp.office@tebbutt.minister.nsw.gov.au

Nathan Rees mailto: thepremier@www.nsw.gov.au

Clover Moore http://www.clovermoore.com/main/?id=1840

Be very plain and to the put stating your objections to this, no threats or stupid remarks.

I've had this happen in a different sport and if we all don't act now it will happen very quicjk and quite

Step up or sell your boat

Dean

Edited December 4, 2008 by deana

[pjbink]

Hi guys

Is anyone aware of the legalities behind marine parks, ie the international convention the federal government is a signatory to which states that by law there must be a marine park in each bioregion within a certain period. I recall this being mentioned during the previous marine park fiasco and used by McDonald as an excuse for not being able to rescind the legislation. PS Macdonald is about to retire this also may be pertinent at this time.

Maniak

Australia has 30% of the World's marine parks - so no other country has gone in for them the way we have. Yes we have signed up to a UN convention on them, but the convention states that low impact traditional activities should be encouraged. I think that recreational fishing would be that sort of activity. Also governments break UN conventions all the time , eg the previous Labor gov. did when it brought in compulsory dentention of assylum seekers.

PS, I have been banging away on this dire threat to our sport for a couple of years now - somehow 'I told you so' just doesn't quite say it !

[Luringbream]

Found this guys, this is the zone!

http://www.marinesanctuaries.org.au/marine...0&Itemid=64

What a joke!!

[creafield]

Greetings All

I may have had my initial information wrong on this(Post #9), however the NPA have still not posted on their website http://www.marine.org.au/ any more info.

However they have announced the "necessity" of a Marine Park from Merimbula to the Victorian border AS WELL

It must be a big report as it is >167pages long. I heard on the radio they wanted 5 NEW Marine Reserves from Tweed Heads to the Vic border.

Of course it may be a 4 month early April fool's day ... I think not.

As a matter of interest Professor Kearney has given an interview to ABC South East (Batemans thru to Victoria FM 103.5) which will be played at 8.30am Friday (5th December) morning. Andrew Constance the local member (NSW Liberal) is also speaking .. he has been very helpful to us in the past.

I will be trying to get on (1300 810 222)

I think I have posted all of the links to Prof. Kearney's papers on NSW Marine Parks on this site. The three papers he did in September 2006, October 2007 and October 2008 are REQUIRED reading by anyone who wants to argue with a Greenie or a Pro Marine Park Labor politician.

Regards

Philip C.

Found this guys, this is the zone!

http://www.marinesanctuaries.org.au/marine...0&Itemid=64

[What a joke!!

Greetings Luring Bream

No that only shows the CURRENT NSW Marine reserves in the Hawkesbury bioregion. They only total 500hectares of Sanctuary Zones

Below is a "Letter to the Editor" I wrote about this in October 2006 in relation to the Batemans Marine Park andd a "proposed" Hawkesbury Marine Park

When Minister Debus speaks to Parliament

Despite living on the South Coast, only 400kms from Sydney, when Minister Debus rises to answer a question in Parliament, many of us sometimes wonder whether we are living on the same planet.

In Parliament on Thursday 28th September 2006 Minister Debus answered a question from the Hon A. McTaggart, who asked if a "Hawkesbury Marine Park" was scheduled for the area between Shellharbour and Newcastle.

Mr Debus replied that " The Government has NO PLANS AT ALL to create a Marine Park in the Hawkesbury Bioregion .... this area already has 27 Aquatic and Marine Reserves, as well as 9 intertidal regions within the bioregion that are fully protected".

What he failed to mention was that they are approximately 4,360h in size and have about 550h of "no take" zones". To put it into context with what we have in the Batemans Bioregion, that is a pittance.

In the Batemans bioregion we are "fortunate" to have two Marine Parks, with a total area of 110,000h and about 22,000h of "No Take" sanctuary zones. Mr. Debus must not like the good people in the Hawkesbury Bioregion, they only have 2% of the "No take" zones that we have in the Batemans Bioregion.

Perhaps he forgot to mention as well that the Hawkesbury Marine Park would affect 26 Labor held seats between Shellharbour and Newcastle. In the Batemans and Twofold bioregion after March 2007 there will be no Labor held seats. I would be getting nervous if I was a keen fisher who lived between Bermagui and the Victorian Border.

[high_speed_metal]

This has made me so angry, And I cant see how they could take this away from us.... This will be the first time EVER i will have made contact with a politician...

I seen on the news tonight a member say " no i have never fished" or something along those lines... Maybe he sould get out and experience what a great country we have...

STAND UP AND FIGHT!!!

Im more that happy to spend time getting petitions signed around my area. would that do anything???

[mrsswordfisherman]

Thanks to the many people who have contacted us via phone, pm and email. Keep your ideas coming.

We are looking at all this and will respond in a timely manner. Communications need to be intelligently constructed, assertive and non-threatening or abusive.

This is a very important issue to us all. Fishraider may even become an archive of "what was" or cease to be!!!

Have read below (sent to me by Ross Hunter)

President Bush’s historic amendment maintains fishing in marine protected areas

Alexandria, VA –September 26, 2008 – On September 26, President George W. Bush signed an amendment to the 1995 Executive Order on recreational fishing. This historic amendment ensures that federal agencies must maintain recreational fishing on federal lands and waters, including marine protected areas. Once implemented, this policy will provide access to places where men, women and children can enjoy fishing now and in the future. The Executive Order revises Executive Order 12962 signed in 1995 by President Bill Clinton.

Over the past two years, the American Sportfishing Association (ASA), the Center for Coastal Conservation and its members, the Coastal Conservation Association, the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation, the National Marine Manufacturers Association and the Shimano American Corporation worked together to secure recreational fishing and boating access. President Bush’s amendment recognizes the marine and freshwater conservation impact of recreational anglers by allowing responsible recreational fishing and boating in marine protected areas and federal lands.

“We applaud the President for taking this unprecedented step which recognizes that anglers and boaters play a significant and critical role in this country’s successful conservation model which is the envy of the world,” said ASA President and CEO Mike Nussman. “As a recreational angler and boater himself, the President clearly understands that sportsmen and women are conservationists first and foremost and that recreational fishing is an essential component of the nation’s heritage.”

“The President’s action established a legacy for recreational fishing by securing access to fishing and boating, the lifeblood of the American model of fisheries management and conservation,” said ASA Vice President Gordon Robertson. “Every time American anglers buy fishing licenses or sportfishing equipment, an investment is made in fishing’s future. This highly successful user-pay system for fishery management depends on access to the resource.”

mrsswordie

[roosterman]

i have sent a few emails to all labor wallies i can think of.

i think all fishing websites/clubs/tackle industry and even the pros should get reps together to form our own fishing party group to fight these morons and rally against them in numbers to make sure our collective voices are heard.. the media would jump at something like this i think as labor is a bit of a whipping boy these days with the constant failings shown every day......

if we need fliers i can get these done to help the cause.....

raiders please make your voices be heard,shout it from your rooftop if needed as if we are not careful we may be putting our beloved boats an gear up for sale and just read posts of fishing stories of days gone by...

not a cheery steve....

[jewgaffer]

Good one Steve. I think we should email every member of Parliament in the lLower and the Upper house, and follow up by posting the signed original in the mail. When all parties realise the number of voters involved I reckon we wont have to worry, they'll be all fighting one another for their share of the votes.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[roosterman]

lots of unhappy people out there..

we just need to unite an be heard

taken from

http://news.smh.com.au/national/anglers-an...81204-6rab.html

Anglers angry over no-fishing zones

December 4, 2008 - 2:52PM

Advertisement

Recreational anglers have attacked plans for large no-fishing zones along NSW's coast, with one group saying it will target the state government at the next election if it backs the proposal.

The National Parks Association of NSW on Thursday urged the government to set up five new marine parks.

It is seeking the establishment of a 103,000-hectare Sydney Marine Park, stretching from the Royal National Park south of the city to the Central Coast.

Others are proposed for areas south of Tweed Heads, around South West Rocks and Camden Haven on the mid-north coast, and around Twofold near Eden on the far south coast.

The association also wants the existing Jervis Bay Park to be extended, protection of grey nurse shark habitats, and 89 smaller aquatic reserves along the coast.

The new parks would add to six existing protected marine sites in NSW.

It wants them set up by 2011, with 33 per cent of the parks set aside as strictly no-fishing areas.

Association executive officer Andrew Cox said the proposal aimed to have 20 per cent of all NSW waters fully protected from fishing.

He said the plan would be a win-win for fishermen and the environment, despite hiving off large swathes of coastline.

"Some would suggest that we're putting the concerns of conservation ahead of all the other uses we have (for) our marine environment - that is certainly not the case," Mr Cox said at the proposal launch in Sydney on Thursday.

"What we are trying to ascribe is a better balance of conservation with commercial and recreational fishing.

"What we've set as a goal is at least 20 per cent of NSW water protected. That leaves plenty of space and areas available for fishing."

But angling groups say marine parks have locked fishers out of the best spots.

NSW Fishing Clubs Association president Robert Smith said recreational anglers would campaign against the government at the 2011 election if it backed the plan.

"There are one million anglers in NSW, and I'm sure that if their top fishing spots are taken, there will be a campaign mounted to target all those Labor-held seats (along the coast)," he said.

"We say that recreational fishing poses no real threat to the marine areas."

Environment Minister Carmel Tebbutt said the government was committed to marine conservation and the report would be reviewed by the Marine Parks Authority.

"While I welcome the report, I note that marine parks are not the only way to protect our precious marine environment," Ms Tebbutt said in statement.

"Our current focus is on reviewing the zoning plans of our two oldest marine parks, at Solitary Island and Jervis Bay."

The Australian National sportfishing Association said the most accessible fishing spots in marine parks were the ones being closed.

"There is plenty of support for marine parks ... and my organisation have been always supportive," the association's NSW vice-president John Burgess said.

"(But) the best places, the most accessible places, and the places people really like to go to, are the ones that get shut down."

The Sydney Fish Market (SFM) also poured cold water on the plan, saying pollution was a greater threat to marine life.

"The proposed marine park sounds like a simple solution to protect the marine ecosystem but we question whether it will solve the long-term problems," SFM managing director Grahame Turk said.

"There is irrefutable evidence that the damage to water quality resulting from agriculture and coastal development is the real and serious threat to aquatic organisms and marine ecosystems."

© 2008 AAP

Brought to you by aap

Edited December 4, 2008 by roosterman

[ross]

Ross,

We have fought tooth and nail against this including articles in my web site on the closure of Pretty beach and sanctuary zones prior to the last election. I knew once they got a foot in the door they would want more all without any study at all. Bloody koala cuddlers running off with emotional drool..We fishermen are being treated like criminals and being bullied around like a political football by a party who will be brown nosing to the greens to scrape thru in the next elections. If fisherman do not vote for them it may sway their thoughts, but believe me the Green preferences are all that will get them home.

I am meeting with the shadow politicians at parliment house soon to see what the Nats and the Libs will do if we vote for them ..will be interesting indeed.

Roscoe visit we site and go into Fishing Stories and Hints then scroll back to Pretty Beach storyMy Webpage

The simple truth of the matter is that I was against in the Pitt Town development from being an Agricultural(working) and scenic zone to a Rouse Hill macmansion suburb. The powers to be had already made up their mind even before the process began. The Hawk. boi region you will find been has semi finalised awaiting Ministerial approval. As for submission no matter what arguement is put forth in a formal manner it will thrown in the rubbish bin as ''being one against''and is to late

One way, as seeeing that this State Gov. stinks at the moment is to have the matter defered or put on hold until (most importantly and appeasingly) MORE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH is conducted. It is unlikely this Gov. will see another term and a refreshed approach can be sought from a new Gov. as to the ramifications that not only the Hawk Bio Region has but also to the whole of the NSW Coast. Keep lobbying and the support from all Fishraider members and any support from dissaffected people which includes unlikely sources for they could be affected too. As an example RSL,CWAs Bowling and Golf clubs etc although these examples may seem extreme they have members that wil be affected and one letter of dissent can tip the balance.

[tide'n'knots]

does anyone have an idea about how to get someone like - steve starling, ET, rex hunt or someone to host a documentry and bring this to the publics attention via the magic of tv!

The more people know about this, and not just anglers - the better!

I believe it is our god given right to go and catch a fish and these a###holes are trying to take that right away from us - if we allow this to happen without putting up a fight who knows were it will end.

I am sick to death of the loud mouthed minority groups in this country getting thier way with everything!

If thats the way it is, then its time for fishraiders and anglers alike to become a loud mouthed minority group!!!!

If these polys want to get fair dinkum why not stop commercial fishing in these areas first, and stop attacking the recreational angler who doesnt kill hundreds of small fish in thier nets or wreak havic on the weed beds and bottoms fishing for scollops such as areas of port phillip bay that are now arid wasteland and were once teaming with fish.

March on parliment house with signed petitions and get a current affair to do a story on it! make enough noise and someone will listen!

If this madness does go ahead lets organise hundreds, no make that thousands of fishermen from all around the country to drive thier boats into the no fishing zones and start fishing all at the same time in an act of defiance- they cant jail everyone!!

Edited December 4, 2008 by tide'n'knots

[bart]

G'day Fishraiders,

We have a big battle on our hands lads,be it now or sometime in the near future. The push is on and we need THOUGHTFUL discussion. I believe that change to some degree is inevitable. However we cannot sit back and let decisions be made by people who are illinformed.Decisions that may affect many people , their livelihoods and their recreational needs need to be well thought out before major changes are made. Constructive debate and information needs to happen.I can see that we have the members with great experience and foresight to make an impact on any debate that will ensue.

Cheers BART

Edited December 4, 2008 by bart

[craigtempo]

Hi guys

Is anyone aware of the legalities behind marine parks, ie the international convention the federal government is a signatory to which states that by law there must be a marine park in each bioregion within a certain period. I recall this being mentioned during the previous marine park fiasco and used by McDonald as an excuse for not being able to rescind the legislation. PS Macdonald is about to retire this also may be pertinent at this time.

Maniak

i will be responding to this and i will be going on to other fishing site and forwarding this on...

but a question i got in trouble from you guys for forwarding another fishing site from this site .yet here you are asking me to forward this site to any other fishing site .

i agree 100% that we have to ban together and fight this loud , small , illinformed radical green group .and there is already talk of letters sent and action taken from other sites

Edited December 4, 2008 by craigtempo

[Beaver]

Just read the article in the tele this morning on the ferry coming into work. Totally unbelieavable what kind of uneducated, ill-informed morons came up with this. I hope we can make our thoughts heard loud and clear. Good to see so many passionate raiders unite!!

What a joke...

[mrsswordfisherman]

ABC WORLD TODAY

Have a listen to the interview

[olitay]

Dona, we need to do something!

Edited December 5, 2008 by olitay

[mrsswordfisherman]

Dona, we need to do something!

We are - be patient

[craigtempo]

I cannot believe that these people would be so self richeouse and cocky to think that they would be able to close down the waters from newcastle to woolongong to rec fishing ....... is that what they are proposing ?

we really do need the be united in one voice over this and other issues that in danger our sport.

this is what the greenies have done ,there is very few of them compaired to us ,but they are better organised and so lowder in there voice .......

we all want to look after our fisheries and habitat .its common sense .

how would mr and mrs greenie like it if we proposed total block out of all national parks

ie NO ONE ALLOWED IN . no camping no hicking no roads no nothing------ closed .

they would be chaining themselves to anything that mooved in protest yet when they try do do it to us

they think its ok to do so and back them selves with evedence that even my 5 year old can shoot holes through .

imagine the rec fishing industry ,boat sales , accomadation down turn .

valery tailor is siding with the np&w saying back int the 60 and 70 s there were hundreds of fish everywere and she use to be the number one spearfish killer in australia but know shes seen the light .

WELL IM SORRY VALLERY but we are much more educated and responsable that you were back in your day ,and just because your generation rapped and pilliage the ocean please do not take it out on me .i am a 95% catch and release fisherman and so are a very good deal of fellow fisherfolk .

fishing comps are mostly catch and release and if any thing i believe that THE FISH POPULATIONS ARE GOING UP not down ,look at the kingfish fisherie in sydney .10 years ago depleated now there are more and more comming back every season and there getting bigger .

bream populations in sydney habour all on the increase you cant even go outside and fish for snapper [ also getting more &more] without a letherjacket macking of with you rigs .

if you want to get serouse about fish conservation how about employing more fisheries offices so that when there is a complaint about something going on they actually have the numbers to do something about it.

we pay $70 a year [ is that right] to have OUR fisherie well managed .this didnt happen back in the 60 and 70s . so even though WE are fishing in all these so called sensative areas there seems to be an abundance of fish up and down the east coast of australia .

seems to me that vallery tailor is having a guilt trip for the dammage that she and other people of her generation have done and are trying to make amends & make themselves feel better .... WELL VALLERY were doing just fine without you so go and dive back into that litle piece of paradise that seems to be floating between your ears ....

glad i got that off my chest

but im still angry .........................................................................

how dare they

[mattycoss]

i think they should just ban commercial fishing in the area, basing it on common sense rather than statistics

recreational fishos like us actually care about the environment and fish stocks, they dont. banning them seems the logical thing to do and would result in greater fish numbers i would think

perhaps even decreasing bag limits for rec anglers

just dont see why they have to extend the ban to us, its ridiculous and i dont think it will solve the problem at all it will just damage industry and lifestyle

[jewgaffer]

Not much of a accredited spokesman this reformed smoker type of person this Valerie Taylor whatever her name is. It's always these types of people that come out on a crusade to save spiny ant eaters and thrill neck lizards from extinction in the middle of the nullabour and have never even seen one.

I'll bet she would only dive into small iotas of water only where her tootsies felt comfortable and there would be no sign of her on the bad weather days when fish she murders are schooled up everywhere and there would have been even less sign of her when she's getting her tootsies comfortable on the lounge in the winter.

She sounds like a reformed killer turned to religion to me and I am sure she would melt away upon any type of cross examination. And the easiest argument would be to ask her just how much of the water have you covered, you're only knee high to a grasshopper!

Just goes to show how weak that crowd's front is. People are a wake up but the trouble is some politicians think everyone else is stupid, just look at those two galahs in the recent night club scandal.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[craigtempo]

i think they should just ban commercial fishing in the area, basing it on common sense rather than statistics

recreational fishos like us actually care about the environment and fish stocks, they dont. banning them seems the logical thing to do and would result in greater fish numbers i would think

perhaps even decreasing bag limits for rec anglers

just dont see why they have to extend the ban to us, its ridiculous and i dont think it will solve the problem at all it will just damage industry and lifestyle

i agree with this 95% this is the reason that kingfish have returned in great numbers to the sydney area ie kingfish fish traps banned.

also comercial fishing stopped in the parramatta river has meant that the fish stocks are on the increase as well .ie bream - kingfish - salmon - taylor- whiting -blackfish -squid -flathead -jewfish and what about the bass fisherie round penrith all doing well thank you very much

what more evedence do these idiots want .

no wonder someone invented comdoms .

[justinp]

Guys and girls, we all need to voice our opinion on this, however emails are of little good, the pollies need not reply to these, letters are the onle way to go, if no reply within 30days you can then take it up with the ombudsman(spelling), perhaps there should be some sort of fishing forum website bipartisan approach, lets get all the members of all the websites together and organize a one voice approach from thousands and thousands of us fishos, I for one do not want to be told that I cant take my young boy for a fish at a spot where I once fished as a kid, we are a small bunch of people, however in the political world money speaks volumes, maybe we need to approach the ceo's of Bcf, BLAH BLAH BLAH, Bigw, Rays outdoors ect to gather a larger platform with which to raise our voice, these marine parks are going to go ahead regardless, its up to us to lobby to get at least some sort of commonsense approach taken, I for one have never voted labour or greens and never will, gone are the days of a fair go in this country for the minority, regulation of everything has seen to that, so just for once lets not sit idle and show them that there is a little bit of what IT MEANS TO CALL YOURSELF AN AUSSIE STILL REMAINS.

[flatty hunter626]

there is no use getting angry over the issue i felt the same way at first but soon realised it wont help.....be paient and think things through before sending off any hate mail.

[pjbink]

One of our senior (now retired) marine biologists has waded in. Letter to the SMH:

The proposal by the National Parks Association (NPA) for yet more marine parks in NSW warrants strong comment, particularly as Minister Tebbutt will be referring their report to the NSW Marine Park Authority (MPA) for advice. The MPA has consistently made fallacious claims about the so-called harmful effects of fishing to justify the exclusion of recreational fishing from 20% of marine park areas in NSW. Recreational fishing has been unfairly singled out as a major threat to biodiversity, despite there being no substantiated evidence to support this claim.

The bulk of evidence used to denigrate fishing is derived from overseas studies on destructive commercial fishing practices and on over-exploited fisheries. The press release from the NPA states that "No-take marine sanctuaries can double fish and invertebrate densities, triple biomass, increase mean fish sizes by 20 to 30 per cent, boost the number of species by 23 per cent, quadruple catch-per unit efforts in nearby waters, and make marine ecosystems 21 per cent less vulnerable to environmental changes?. Such claims amount to scientific fraud and demonstrate the spin-doctoring emanating from the NPA. Good science is certainly not about the selective use of information, in this case used by the NPA and MPA to advance their dodgy hypothesis that recreational fishing is impacting on biodiversity.

As a fisheries scientist I have searched the scientific literature for peer-reviewed papers demonstrating that recreational line fishing in NSW estuarine and coastal waters has had an adverse, or any, impact on biodiversity. No such hard published evidence exists. The real threats to marine biodiversity are coastal development and associated pollutants, not fishing. The many millions spent on creating and policing the meaningless no-take zones along the NSW coast would be far better spent combating such threats, rather than being wasted on green placebos.

Richard Tilzey

Central Tilba