Marine Park - Hawksbury Shelf?

[Bluewater]

i think they should just ban commercial fishing in the area, basing it on common sense rather than statistics

recreational fishos like us actually care about the environment and fish stocks, they dont. banning them seems the logical thing to do and would result in greater fish numbers i would think

perhaps even decreasing bag limits for rec anglers

just dont see why they have to extend the ban to us, its ridiculous and i dont think it will solve the problem at all it will just damage industry and lifestyle

I agree whole heartedly with these comments. Maybe we could turn the proposed threat of Marine Parks in to a positive for us. Maybe this is a chance to get rid of pro's in enclosed waters in Sydney all together. In my local waters of the Hawksbury, Pittwater and Broken bay, almost every week day you'll see several pro's pilaging these enclosed water ways untill there is nothing left. Some may have a go at me for this however I would even be prepared to give up one of my fishing spot's to a no fishing zone (eg Lion Island) if the new regulations bought out all the pro's in my area. Maybe we would then see our water way return to its former glory of regular catches of monster Jewies, Kings and Snapper.

[pjbink]

I agree whole heartedly with these comments. Maybe we could turn the proposed threat of Marine Parks in to a positive for us. Maybe this is a chance to get rid of pro's in enclosed waters in Sydney all together. In my local waters of the Hawksbury, Pittwater and Broken bay, almost every week day you'll see several pro's pilaging these enclosed water ways untill there is nothing left. Some may have a go at me for this however I would even be prepared to give up one of my fishing spot's to a no fishing zone (eg Lion Island) if the new regulations bought out all the pro's in my area. Maybe we would then see our water way return to its former glory of regular catches of monster Jewies, Kings and Snapper.

I'd be careful of trading away our fishing spots just to see some reductions on the pro's. The benifits you imagine are likely to be an illusion. Those trawlers are actually after prawns and squid. They are only allowed to trawl a bit over 50% of the Hawkesbury. A study on the Clarence (a much bigger trawl fisher), found it to be perfectly sustainable, that bycatch can be kept to minimum with the use of mitigation devices and there was no lasting harm to benthic (bottom dwelling) organisms.

Bear in mind if (God forbid) they kicked out all the rec fishermen then the pros would have better catches too!

[flatty hunter626]

gotta keep in mind the difference between trawlers and netters though.

[craigtempo]

I'd be careful of trading away our fishing spots just to see some reductions on the pro's. The benifits you imagine are likely to be an illusion. Those trawlers are actually after prawns and squid. They are only allowed to trawl a bit over 50% of the Hawkesbury. A study on the Clarence (a much bigger trawl fisher), found it to be perfectly sustainable, that bycatch can be kept to minimum with the use of mitigation devices and there was no lasting harm to benthic (bottom dwelling) organisms.

Bear in mind if (God forbid) they kicked out all the rec fishermen then the pros would have better catches too!

when they stopped the kingfish traps out side sydney the kingfish started to recover quite quickly the kingfish fishery we enjoy now was not there 10 years ago ........

since the closer of prawn trawlers and netters in the habour and parramatta river the whole river has made an extraodary come back ie bream , jewies, salmon,tailor,whiting ,kingies ,luderick were even getting whales comming into the habour .so i do not agree that prawn trawlers is sustainable in a fishery also remember that prawns and squid ARE a major food source for fish stocks ,so if you reduce the amount of food for fish you also reduce the amount of fish numbers in that fishery . nets are not selective on what they drag out of the water . no matter what type of device they use they still catch and kill large numbers of bycatch ie juvenile fish and breeding stock as i said the nets and traps are not selective .ie look at all the leatherjackets that mystiriously washed up on some of our beaches ,were did they come from ?

i would hazard a guess and say a comercial fishing boat bycatch that they didnt want .

even with the use of gps and satalite navagation as used to pinpoint the fishing grounds they are know netting closer the reefs and in esturies were 10 years ago this was not possable .

and i also do not believe that if rec fishers stopped fishing that the pros would have better catches to ...... we [ rec fishers ] simply do not catch the sort of fish numbers that the pros do .and we can be more selective on what we take ie throw back undersize fish or fish catch and release .[ this is what i do to 95% of my catch] .

if you want to see evidence of what sort of fish the commercial fishers are taking i sugest you take a trip to paddys markets either at flemington or in the city the amount of small and juvenile fish being sold there is outrages , crimanal, and it make me sick when ever i go there in fact i usually start arguing with the sellers .....

im talking bream 10 inches long - whiting8 inches long - jewies 12 inches long - snapper smaller than the bream and hairtail [ know as ribbon fish ] 12 inches long [ no wonder there are very very few decent hairtail being caught anymore ] as far as prawns are concerned the BEST ones ive had in the last 10 years are the crystal bay prawns from queensland and they are farmed .

i would also be very carefull about trading away fishing spots ......

1 eg Batemans bay ..... the npw and nsw gov struck a deal with the locals and fisherfolk alike to buy back pro fishing netting licenses and stop rec fishing in the bay

in return the nsw gov would stopp ALL pro netting in the clyde river and in the bay ........ and so turn the clyde {a major breading ground for esturine species }in to a rec fishing haven EXEPT because of a loophole in the law that nsw gov passed the pros have now turned to fish trapping the Clyde......................

so the rec fisher got ripped of by 1 loosing fishing ground in the bay and 2 by loosing valuble fish stocks in the clyde to the pro fishers .........

craig

Edited December 8, 2008 by craigtempo

[Bluewater]

I'm just basing my thoughts on assumptions, assumptions that if you took the fish trappers and the prawners out of the system, things could only improve. Surely Sydney Harbour is a testament to how effective this course of action is. If the Hawksbury could become as prolific with fish as the Harbour, then as I said, I am willing to trade off one of my fishing spots with NPW (loop hole free of course).

[bart]

POINT TO CONSIDER....

IF RECREATION FISHING WAS BANNED OR LIMITED IN YOUR AREA WHERE WILL YOU GET YOUR FISH TO EAT.

EITHER YOUR SMALL RETAIL OUTLET (whilst they survive ) ........ or.............

YES... WOOLWORTHS ,COLES ETC.

BEWARE OF THE PARIAHS.

THEY WANT YOUR BUSINESS OR AS THEY WOULD SAY MARKET SHARE.

BART

[craigtempo]

I'm just basing my thoughts on assumptions, assumptions that if you took the fish trappers and the prawners out of the system, things could only improve. Surely Sydney Harbour is a testament to how effective this course of action is. If the Hawksbury could become as prolific with fish as the Harbour, then as I said, I am willing to trade off one of my fishing spots with NPW (loop hole free of course).

i see and understand your point but i just do not trust the np&w or nsw gov.

POINT TO CONSIDER....

IF RECREATION FISHING WAS BANNED OR LIMITED IN YOUR AREA WHERE WILL YOU GET YOUR FISH TO EAT.

EITHER YOUR SMALL RETAIL OUTLET (whilst they survive ) ........ or.............

YES... WOOLWORTHS ,COLES ETC.

BEWARE OF THE PARIAHS.

THEY WANT YOUR BUSINESS OR AS THEY WOULD SAY MARKET SHARE.

BART

easy if fishing was banned in my area i would give a hoot ide keep fishing .

[pjbink]

I'm just basing my thoughts on assumptions, assumptions that if you took the fish trappers and the prawners out of the system, things could only improve. Surely Sydney Harbour is a testament to how effective this course of action is. If the Hawksbury could become as prolific with fish as the Harbour, then as I said, I am willing to trade off one of my fishing spots with NPW (loop hole free of course).

Actually the Harbour fished well when the pro's were still there. There have been no surveys done to see if the rec fishing has improved. It may have and there may be a lot of wishful thinking. In any case they were kicked out because of the dioxin problem. A lot of them have just been displaced to adjacent waters so it's hard to say if there are any fishery wide benifits.

I don't think the MPA will be content with one fishing spot Bluewater. In NSW marine parks rec fishing is excluded almost as much as pro fishing (usually 20% of the park). There are even places such as the Cape Byron Marine Park where prawn trawling is allowed in the park where anglers are exluded! That must be a World first - a commercial only fishing zone. Given the anti-fishing bias (both towards rec and pro sectors), bureaucratic empire building, the spin doctoring and misuse of science, I wouldn't like the chance of making a 'good deal' with a marine park authority.

[Ross Hunter]

One of our senior (now retired) marine biologists has waded in. Letter to the SMH:

The proposal by the National Parks Association (NPA) for yet more marine parks in NSW warrants strong comment, particularly as Minister Tebbutt will be referring their report to the NSW Marine Park Authority (MPA) for advice. The MPA has consistently made fallacious claims about the so-called harmful effects of fishing to justify the exclusion of recreational fishing from 20% of marine park areas in NSW. Recreational fishing has been unfairly singled out as a major threat to biodiversity, despite there being no substantiated evidence to support this claim.

The bulk of evidence used to denigrate fishing is derived from overseas studies on destructive commercial fishing practices and on over-exploited fisheries. The press release from the NPA states that "No-take marine sanctuaries can double fish and invertebrate densities, triple biomass, increase mean fish sizes by 20 to 30 per cent, boost the number of species by 23 per cent, quadruple catch-per unit efforts in nearby waters, and make marine ecosystems 21 per cent less vulnerable to environmental changes?. Such claims amount to scientific fraud and demonstrate the spin-doctoring emanating from the NPA. Good science is certainly not about the selective use of information, in this case used by the NPA and MPA to advance their dodgy hypothesis that recreational fishing is impacting on biodiversity.

As a fisheries scientist I have searched the scientific literature for peer-reviewed papers demonstrating that recreational line fishing in NSW estuarine and coastal waters has had an adverse, or any, impact on biodiversity. No such hard published evidence exists. The real threats to marine biodiversity are coastal development and associated pollutants, not fishing. The many millions spent on creating and policing the meaningless no-take zones along the NSW coast would be far better spent combating such threats, rather than being wasted on green placebos.

Richard Tilzey

Central Tilba

I have fished many times at Bermigui with Richard and my old mate Rob Croxen also of Tilba and he is so knowledgable on this MPA.. BS..As is Kearney. We all know that we we have been "Hoodwinked". It is now up to us to get rid of them at the polling booth.

I am meeting soon with Duncan Gay and the shadow Minister for Fisheries at Parliament House I will report on what deal they will offer us rec fishos when they get into power. More info later

Ross

[mrelxr6]

WHAT ABOUT TODAY TONIGHT OR ACA???

they would rub there hands for somethink to scrub clover moore out of the picture

[nemu]

I'd be careful of trading away our fishing spots just to see some reductions on the pro's. The benifits you imagine are likely to be an illusion. Those trawlers are actually after prawns and squid. They are only allowed to trawl a bit over 50% of the Hawkesbury. A study on the Clarence (a much bigger trawl fisher), found it to be perfectly sustainable, that bycatch can be kept to minimum with the use of mitigation devices and there was no lasting harm to benthic (bottom dwelling) organisms.

Bear in mind if (God forbid) they kicked out all the rec fishermen then the pros would have better catches too!

I would be dammed if I'd give these balloon heads anything you need only look at areas already made marine parks but even in zones we can't go pro's carry on as per normal that just adds to the ludrickry off it so that I agree with give the boffins an inch and they'll take a mile and why curtail to these clowns when all they have to justify is formulated opinion and thier own hear say this npa would not know a problem in the piscatorial world if it bit them on the bum I bet a better half of them still use plastic bags for shopping.I've made the point ealier with the populas of the current state powers at hand all this would be is a last ditch effort to retain power and on that after the mini budjet I believed we where in the red cancelling the kids bus pass's and the like so how can NSW afford the millions to implement this!!?

[johnv]

let me see now ! if the government starts no fishing zones in close to the head lands. i really think that we will start to have a lot more accidents,deaths on the water [i hope we dont] with a lot more smaller water crafts will be taken bigger risks by going further out to sea. lets face it how many small boat do you see venture out to the 1 km, now they will go even further out. but in sayin that we do have a _ _ _ _ _ _ up government this is something i think will happen.

cheers john

Edited December 9, 2008 by johnv

[high_speed_metal]

WHAT ABOUT TODAY TONIGHT OR ACA???

they would rub there hands for somethink to scrub clover moore out of the picture

Also sent an email to both of them the other day, It would be GREAT if the done a story on this!! everyone else should email them as well just to put the point across that lots of people are interested in this.

[jewgaffer]

Yes our side of the story would certainly get good television interest. After all fishing is one of the biggest if not the biggest family participant sports in the country!

Cheers

jewgaffer

[neilm]

Actually the Harbour fished well when the pro's were still there. There have been no surveys done to see if the rec fishing has improved. It may have and there may be a lot of wishful thinking. In any case they were kicked out because of the dioxin problem. A lot of them have just been displaced to adjacent waters so it's hard to say if there are any fishery wide benifits.

I don't think the MPA will be content with one fishing spot Bluewater. In NSW marine parks rec fishing is excluded almost as much as pro fishing (usually 20% of the park). There are even places such as the Cape Byron Marine Park where prawn trawling is allowed in the park where anglers are exluded! That must be a World first - a commercial only fishing zone. Given the anti-fishing bias (both towards rec and pro sectors), bureaucratic empire building, the spin doctoring and misuse of science, I wouldn't like the chance of making a 'good deal' with a marine park authority.

I totally agree, because once one sort of fishing is banned it's only a small step for another - we must work with and learn to accept that commercial fishing is and always will be a reality. We need to emphasise that fishers are more finely attuned to the environment than a bunch of people who smell of patchouli oil in downtown Newtown who share their environment with pigeons, not dolphins, seals, sea eagles and the marvels that we experience on a regular basis. We must also show that we are responsible to the point of proposing (to the DPI) size limits (upper & lower - for example flathead would be an ideal candidate for having an upper size limit as we all know), maybe lowering bag limits, maybe even consider what electronics we use? How important is it that we catch a feed? Another question to be considered - could a charter operator be considered a pro fisher?

There is no such thing as a good deal with people who don't eat fish.

[achjimmy]

This needs a concerted combined effort. Look at the way the Shooters united and formed the shooters party and what they have achieved, two members in the NSW Senate. We need to band together and form an association just like our opponents. Ross your mate ET would be a good figure head well connected and respected. Support could/should come from the likes of BLAH BLAH BLAH, BCF, BLA, Shimano, BRP, Yamaha etc etc (apologies on breaking of site rules on these names) these corporations will be directly affected by these sorts of decisions and should support us.

We need a meeting chaired by someone with experience and get delegations organized and get going on lobbying. Perhaps the Shooters party can offer some assistance in getting going? As most shooters I know share the same respect for the environment and sport.

[craigtempo]

This needs a concerted combined effort. Look at the way the Shooters united and formed the shooters party and what they have achieved, two members in the NSW Senate. We need to band together and form an association just like our opponents. Ross your mate ET would be a good figure head well connected and respected. Support could/should come from the likes of BLAH BLAH BLAH, BCF, BLA, Shimano, BRP, Yamaha etc etc (apologies on breaking of site rules on these names) these corporations will be directly affected by these sorts of decisions and should support us.

We need a meeting chaired by someone with experience and get delegations organized and get going on lobbying. Perhaps the Shooters party can offer some assistance in getting going? As most shooters I know share the same respect for the environment and sport.

i agree100000% it should have been done years ago

[Ross Hunter]

This needs a concerted combined effort. Look at the way the Shooters united and formed the shooters party and what they have achieved, two members in the NSW Senate. We need to band together and form an association just like our opponents. Ross your mate ET would be a good figure head well connected and respected. Support could/should come from the likes of BLAH BLAH BLAH, BCF, BLA, Shimano, BRP, Yamaha etc etc (apologies on breaking of site rules on these names) these corporations will be directly affected by these sorts of decisions and should support us.

We need a meeting chaired by someone with experience and get delegations organized and get going on lobbying. Perhaps the Shooters party can offer some assistance in getting going? As most shooters I know share the same respect for the environment and sport.

Jim,

I suggest that we wait uintil I meet with the coalition and see what they will offer us rec fishos and then band together as a group with a firm direction and cause.

Then hit 'em hard and fast collectively

Roscoe

[achjimmy]

Jim,

I suggest that we wait uintil I meet with the coalition and see what they will offer us rec fishos and then band together as a group with a firm direction and cause.

Then hit 'em hard and fast collectively

Roscoe

Look forward to hearing what they say, But they are 2+years from office. Could be all over by then.

[Koalaboi]

Hi All,

When writing to a politician remember these points:

1. A form letter signed by as many different people as possible still basically counts as one objection...handwritten letters are the go.

2. Writing to one and stating your point of view is something that can be filed and a form acknowledgement sent.

3. Most Importantly Ask them questions. eg What is your position on these issues...spell it out and make the questions specific. How will you compensate the various industries?

How will you ensure that recreational fishers will still have access to this important outdoor activity in your electorate?

Go local. Sure write to the minister, but also to your local rep. Also put the weight on the possible alternative party likely to look at a chance of winning the seat in the next election?

There's nothing like living in a marginal seat!

Koalaboi.

[Wigg]

What a piss poor effort by the local fishing community, pros, charter operators and retailers

115 people was all that showed up to last mights meeting at DY bowling club

This is a serious matter they have the numbers and power to shut down fishing in Sydney

Unless we get off our lazy arses and start to do something we will loose our fishing ares for good.

Is that what we want?

Think about what you will do to stop it. You will have to do someting for it not to happen.

Wigg

[PHILL]

HI THIS IS PHILL WE DO A LOT OF FISHING AND WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON PETROL AND FISHING GEAR IF THEY DO THIS MARINE PARK A LOT OF US DONT BUY ANY MORE FISHING GEAR IF YOU CANT US IT .I LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THIS MOB GET THE MONEY TO DO ALL THIS. REGARDS PHILL

[sparkles]

Jim,

I suggest that we wait uintil I meet with the coalition and see what they will offer us rec fishos and then band together as a group with a firm direction and cause.

Then hit 'em hard and fast collectively

Roscoe

Hi Ross,

Have you guys a game plan regarding proposals for voting preferences, to try and counteract the 'celebrity' political weight of the greens?

They need to have a speil prepared for them, so they have something to say if they were to 'not' adopt these proposed marine parks.

ie. "we are not going to go ahead with these plans at this time, due to lack of scientific information. We have heavily supported other 'environmental initiatives such as commercial fishing bans etc."

Give them something they can read to the press, and then the fear of the "i fish, i vote" army can be added in as a secondary incentive to reverse their plans.

I really appreciate your efforts on behalf of all recreational fisho's. I will be mailing my local member in support of an idea to guarantee the access to water ways that we currently enjoy.

Regards,

Arch

[mrmoshe]

Today's Manly Daily has the results of their poll

with 80% voting against the MP at Long Reef.

I urge ALL Fishraider to vote in our official Fishraider Poll

This NPA proposal will impact on YOUR ability to fish in these zones.

Cheers,

Pete.

[bart]

Hi Fishraiders,

My votes are in. However I found the wording a bit confusing. Then again maybe I am confused.

....... BUGGER !!!!

CHEERS BART

Edited December 16, 2008 by bart