Help With My New Ride.

[puregeek]

Hi All,

Ive recently purchased Nautiglass V150 half cabin. I didn't know what i was doing, to be honest it was the first boat i looked at. I guess was so excited about fishing on a boat that i rushed into it.

A couple of problems i have bumped into and was wondering if anyone have had similar experiences with their boat.

1. Engine is an Evinrude 70hp VRO. (im not sure what year model - i have attached a pic). The question is, is it normal for heaps of smoke to be coming out of an engine during idle and/or slow driving. I asked a bloke at picnic point and he said it was normal for 2 strokes. Is it?

2. The engine has is self oiling. Should i disconnect it and pre-mix the fuel myself?

3. How much fuel does a 70hp use. I have a 50-60l tank (approx). And on one day trip it drank the whole thing!. I was so lucky that i had a reserve tank when the engine wouldn't start.

2. I think the boat is taking in more water than usual. I know the last few days when i have been driving it and getting used to it and have allowed for water to splash over to transom. I assume this goes into the bottom of the boat. But when driving the boat last night and this afternoon i felt that my steering was very strange. It felt like the boat just wanted to lean to one side. Even though the boat was balanced with 2 ppl. And when i tried to steer it to the other side it felt like i had to fight it back. Is this because there was water in the hull?. I have 2 small bungs and it took about 3min to drain the boat. I can't remember my friends boat taking that long to drain. Some one suggested that i put in a bilge pump. I was thinking of installing 2, but cannot find any sorta of access to the bottom of the hull. Another person suggested that i cut into the floor (i think its made of fibreglass also). It is a good idea to be cutting into fibreglass floors?.

I should also mention that my transom has some sort of a metal backing. Maybe the old one was leaking/damaged so the placed on a sheet of aluminum to fix it. Could this be where the leak is coming from.

When i experienced the steering problem i played with the tilt/trim a little and notice when i lifted the engine up a little i had more control of the boat. So i don't know if im looking at 2 problems or just the 1 with the steering and water leaking linked.

I really want to get back on board and get some numbers on the board. But at this stage really don't feel safe on the boat. Any help would be much appreciated.

Puregeek.

[pelican]

Congrats on teh new boat

1 They do blow smoke. better quality oils less smoke. Well maintained and serviced less smoke. At low revs and especially if the motor isn't getting to full operating temperature they will blow smoke but there is normal smoke and not so normal.

2 Do a search on this topic VRO as you'll see there is 2 sides to the story. Either way you need to confirm it is working properly and ensure alarms and guages work.

3 Not sure how big your tank is but 2strokes or older boat motors in general use a fair wack of fuel especially at high revs. How many hours did you run it and what sort of revs for how many litres. Out of tune motors , badly set up or pushing a hull full of water out of trim will not get good ecconomy.

Empty all the water out , put in bungs ,go out, see how much water it is really taking or just use a hose and see where the water is getting under the floor ( they didn't have a fully sealed floor)

Common leaks are actually from the bungs themselves or the bung fitting on the hull.

If you are worried about a crack in the hull there are easy ways to check for that. 3 minutes draining is a fair bit of water so it is an issue but you have to determin if it was all from that day or from rain etc.

Transom - a lot of people tried to cover up a rotton or soft transom by screwing on a alley or stainless plate so it might have been a cheap tempory way to stffen it . It may be totally innocent with a previous owner just wanting to protect the transom. You need to find out which.

Not sure where you have the boat and assume you haven't had a full mechanical check on the motor so I would get that done now. That will tell you it's condition and what maintainance is due and you can then budget for it and know where you stand. If the seller has any service history and receipts it will help determin what work has been done. A lot of steering issues are set up isssues with motor height or stiff sticking cables or control arm etc or even the trim tab behind teh propeller. An experienced eye will pick up a lot of these in 5 minutes rather than you spending ages getting advivce from 20 people..

I think talking to sponser dropping it up and getting him to have a quick look and tell you his assesment might get you an honest opinion very cheap - you could then decide what work needs or is worth doing or is affordable and get a full assesment done. He will be able to give an opinion on if the transom and decks are spongy and a issue for your use / expectations. Get him to explain the pros and cons and if work is required what he suggests to make it safe and reliable in your budget. Really worth getting the bearings in teh trailer inspected as well and to be shown what to look for with them.

Then you'll know if you have a reliable keeper worth maintaining and spending time on and heaps of fun boating or one to put up for sale and let it be someone elses problem and go looking find a keeper but a bit better informed.

Decide now while it runs and looks good and don't worry as just about every one here has done the same with cars , boats , stereos and bikes and probably more than once- or is that just me???. I still have nightmares over a early twing petrol bayliner - hurts just thinking about it and I knew it had issues but dodgy qualified mechanics did bad work and it was a worse when they finished and cost me a bomb.

Edited March 9, 2009 by pelican

[Flightmanager]

My first boat motor was a 55HP Evinrude , and it used 1 litre of fuel every nautical mile. My new Etec 75HP uses half as much. (2NM /litre). I would expect that you would be seeing 3/4 NM / litre.

Get the engine checked by a competant marine Mechanic ( I recommend Huetts Marine at Cowan ) . Also , use a good quality 2 stroke oil ( XD50 etc ) . This will help reduce the smoke problem .

Outboards are always under load when underway , so they use more fuel than a car engine of similar size. It comes as quite a shock after your first trip , doesnt it ?

To check for a leak in the hull , stick hose in bung , and fill the bilge area with water . Then watch for any water on the outside of the hull. It is usually easy then to identify the source of the leak.

I would fit a good quality bilge pump. You can get a plastic access cover from most boat chandlers, just cut a hole in the floor of the right size ( 6 - 8" from memory ,) and install the pump at the lowest point of the hull , when in place , screw in the plastic access cover , run the outlet hose and do the wiring , and thats it .

Older fibreglass hulls usually take on a bit of water , but if it takes more than a minute to drain, you really need to find out where it is coming from .

Ross

[spic]

My 1st boat was nauti V150 with a 70hp.

I'd get the motor checked out as that usage sounds excessive.

Now I don't mean to put you off but the Nauti is a great hull just built on the cheap. I had the floor in mine go as it's only masonite covered in fibreglass. I had a crack in the hull located under the drivers side and finally got rid of it as it had a rotten transom. All these issues covered a period of 8 years and all in all was a good 1st boat. If you are going to use it in enclosed waters I'd say get if fixed up but if your planning on going outside I'd seriously consider moving on. The hull is extremely thin and won't take the punishment it will get outside, thats what found with mine.

Cheers,

Vic

[pelican]

Just a note as well that the all round white light needs to be raised to be legal unless there is another one on teh boat .

Get all the big things checked out before you fiddle with the little ones

Be cautious if you fill the bilge up with a hose on a trailer as if the trailer is poorly set up a lot of weight can end up on a single roller and you may hurt the hull. Water is very heavy and bilges can hold more than you imagine. Don't fill it all the way up as some electrics may be down there. Use a bit of water and tilt trailer forward if no leak tilt it rearwards with a chock under back of trailer.

Edited March 9, 2009 by pelican

[puregeek]

Just a note as well that the all round white light needs to be raised to be legal unless there is another one on teh boat .

Get all the big things checked out before you fiddle with the little ones

Be cautious if you fill the bilge up with a hose on a trailer as if the trailer is poorly set up a lot of weight can end up on a single roller and you may hurt the hull. Water is very heavy and bilges can hold more than you imagine. Don't fill it all the way up as some electrics may be down there. Use a bit of water and tilt trailer forward if no leak tilt it rearwards with a chock under back of trailer.

Thanks for the replies. I will give it a go this afternoon to see where the leak is coming from. Fingers crossed its something small like the bungs, but knowing my luck i don't think it is. Just a quick recap though. I can fill the boat up from inside the boat?. As if i was cleaning it and let the water build up in the bottom of the hull?.

And i also have to change the all white light, change to a better/different oil, and get the motor checked out. Any else i missed out on?. Gee, maybe i should have saved my pennies and bought something newer

Also, who should i take the boat to to have a look at?. Is there a good one or a sponsor that is close to the liverpool/fairfield area?

Again, thanks for all the replies guys.

[pelican]

Hi mate

Even with anew boat you still have to check things out . That's boat ownership

What we were saying about the leak was

Pull bung out, fill with a 100l or so of water , put bung back in.

See if it is and obvious leak out of around bung , crack in hull so just wipe bacl off with a towel and see if any water leaks out. Tilt boat forward ( ie rest hitch on ground) as it will move water further into the nose ( carefull you don't stuff your back. If no leaking put a chock ( so it doesn't tip right back) under the back of trailer and with a mate slowly tilt trailer up a bit ( trim motor up) Put milk crates under hitch and see if you can find a leak.

All the water may have ceen from the splash's over sides and transom but you described more water that I would be comfortable with.

Afterwards , leak found or not if there is one, pull the bung and let it reain. Dribble hose on inside and see when water starts draining out of bilge and you will have found how the deck water is getting into the bilge. Probably not fixable and just nice to know how it gets in.

Huey is the only boat sponser and it will be worth your drive to get an honest opinion of boat and motor so you know where you stand. If it is good he will tell ya and not load you up with unnecessary services or piss in your pocket and tell you what a nice bloke you are to get your business like others will. Give him a call so you know where you stand as others will want to fix bits here and there but will rarely tell you what to expect needs doing or what to watch out for.

If someone knows someone they trust out your way I'm sure they will PM you but be aware it is just a single persons recomendation.

White light , rules are now being enforced that the white light has to be visable aove all obstructions ( motor , screen , canopy, people on board and also has to be 1m above side nav lights. Longer pole or mounting it elsewhere is the solution but I wouldn't be too fussed until got the other things checked out so you know what you are starting with.

Don't stress over anything. I spent thousand on rebuilding a boat when younger but in hindsight if I had had the correct advice or resources a smarter decision would have been to sell and buy another. Hell I learnt a lot and enjoyed fixing it up but all those weekends of fixing a small issue and finding a bigger one could have been spent fishing or boating. It was always one problem away from a possible stranding with a old motor that I didn't do enough to but it survived many an adventure for me and the new owner used it for years as well.

Take the early advice and sort the core things that affect reliability and safety and make an early decision when you work out the facts on it's condition of whether it is a keeper.

Edited March 18, 2009 by pelican

[puregeek]

Hi mate

Even with anew boat you still have to check things out . That's boat ownership

What we were saying about the leak was

Pull bung out, fill with a 100l or so of water , put bung back in.

See if it is and obvious leak out of around bung , crack in hull so just wipe bacl off with atwowel and see if any water leaks out. Tilt boat forward ( ie rest hitch on ground) as it will move water further into the nose ( carefull you don't stuff your back. If no leaking put a chock ( so it doesn't tip right back) under the back of trailer and with a mate slowly tilt trailer up a bit ( trim motor up) Put milk crates under hitch and see if you can find a leak.

All the water may have ceen from the splash's over sides and transom but you described more water that I would be comfortable with.

Afterwards , leak found or not if there is one, pull the bung and let it reain. Dribble hose on inside and see when water starts draining out of bilge and you will have found how the deck water is getting into the bilge. Probably not fixable and just nice to know how it gets in.

Huey is the only boat sponser and it will be worth your drive to get an honest opinion of boat and motor so you know where you stand. If it is good he will tell ya and not load you up with unnecessary services or piss in your pocket and tell you what a nice bloke you are to get your business like others will. Give him a call so you know where you stand as others will want to fix bits here and there but will rarely tell you what to expect needs doing or what to watch out for.

If someone knows someone they trust out your way I'm sure they will PM you but be aware it is just a single persons recomendation.

White light , rules are now being enforced that the white light has to be visable aove all obstructions ( motor , screen , canopy, people on board and also has to be 1m above side nav lights. Longer pole or mounting it elsewhere is the solution but I wouldn't be too fussed until got the other things checked out so you know what you are starting with.

Don't stress over anything. I spent thousand on rebuilding a boat when younger but in hindsight if I had had the correct advice or resources a smarter decision would have been to sell and buy another. Hell I learnt a lot and enjoyed fixing it up but all those weekends of fixing a small issue and finding a bigger one could have been spent fishing or boating. It was always one problem away from a possible stranding with a old motor that I didn't do enough to but it survived many an adventure for me and the new owner used it for years as well.

Take the early advice and sort the core things that affect reliability and safety and make an early decision when you work out the facts on it's condition of whether it is a keeper.

Funny thing. I just went home to have a look at it. And just before i started i opened the bungs, and heaps of water started pouring out. I measured it to be about 30l. (i used a 10l bucket to measure while it was coming out). Now the question was, was water still in there from last night (i opened the bungs on an angle at the ramp last night) or was it the rain (had a tarp covering the boat). But anyways, it was drained.

Now i had a good look at the back of the boat. First, the transom, when the water comes back into the boat when you stop hard. There is a hole, where is that water supposed to go?. I had a look and it went to 2 places. Running down (not free flowing - more like a trickle) the back of the boat (outside where the motor sits) and dripping slowly into the boat to where the petrol tank sits. I poured water into that (about 10l), it came out both places very slowly. I thought that place was supposed to drain quickly. But it didn't.

Now once it had dripped onto the main floor, the water sat in the indent that was made for the fuel tank. If i opened the top bung this is where the water would drain from directly to the outside of the boat. I then closed the bung and continued to fill up the main floor directly, now the funny thing is that the indent that was made for the fuel tank to sit filled up to the main floor level (about an inch) and stayed at around the inch mark. I think there is another over flow which then allows the water to flow to the bottom of the hull. I pumped in about 60l of water and waited. There was a small leak coming from the bottom bung, not where the bung screws in, but where the bung housing attaches to the boat. The leak is very small though probably a drop every 5 seconds. Is it easy to re-fit a bigger bung or should i just silicon the current one. But regardless i don't think that that leak will allow in that much water. Now im thinking that i didnt drain the boat properly the last time i took it out.

But regardless i think i want to put in a bilge pump. However i looked around and there is defiantly no access to the bottom of the boat to install a bilge pump. Another mate said pull the marine carpet off and you should be able to access the the bottom by unscrewing the floor board. I don't want to be pulling off carpet and floor boards. Or cut a hole in the floor and put a cover afterward's. It will just make me feel heaps better if i have a pump in it. (I just don't wanna sink)

Thanks again.

[pelican]

I know from a bad experience that a small hole can let a lot of water in. More than you think as it is 18 inches under water under pressure.

Just unscrew the fitting on the hull and sikaflex ( marine silicone / polyurathane) it and the screw holes and put it back on. If you have some normal silicon use it until you get the boat sorted and confirmed leak free..

Edited March 9, 2009 by pelican

[NAUTIGLASS15]

Congrats on the new boat,

I have the same boat as you have just bought & have had some same problems you have now,

first of all water in the bilge probably leaking from bung or bung housing as was mine,you have said that u

noticed water dripping out from lower bung,as pel stated a tiny hole can let alot of water in under pressure,

i also thought the worst to begin with,i filled bilge area with approx 60-80litres water and a couple buckets of

water with some bright food coloring added to make spotting any possible hull leaks alittle easier,hull all good

i removed bungs & housing,cleaned out hole,this also gives you a bit of idea what condition the transom

timber is in,replaced with nice new bungs & housing sealed all with sikaflex,after next outing allday on the

water back at ramp undo bung and no water in bilge at all ,yes that amount of water below will

affect the balance of the boat,solve water leak problem & should solve leaning problem,as for the steering

problem u may find it has to do with your hydrofoil size,i have a small two piece one on mine,70hp jonno,

swapped over & tried a large foil like yours & experienced similar problems you describe,bloody terrible

put small two piece back on all good,as with my motor they do like to guzzle fuel,good tune & no water

inside boat should see some improvement,sort these few problems out & you have a nice & very usable

boat,i do find them to be quite a dry & stable boat which will handle choppy waters without any real

problems,unfortunately i spend to much time in the truck & not the boat.

just a few things that worked for me & may be of some help to you,best of luck.

cheers.

[Flightmanager]

I don't want to be pulling off carpet and floor boards. Or cut a hole in the floor and put a cover afterward's. It will just make me feel heaps better if i have a pump in.

You have no other option , somehow or another , you are going to have to access the underfloor space to put in the bilge pump. As it is an older hull , and will take on some water , at least 1 bilge pump is essential ( IMHO ).

Ross

[puregeek]

Congrats on the new boat,

I have the same boat as you have just bought & have had some same problems you have now,

first of all water in the bilge probably leaking from bung or bung housing as was mine,you have said that u

noticed water dripping out from lower bung,as pel stated a tiny hole can let alot of water in under pressure,

i also thought the worst to begin with,i filled bilge area with approx 60-80litres water and a couple buckets of

water with some bright food coloring added to make spotting any possible hull leaks alittle easier,hull all good

i removed bungs & housing,cleaned out hole,this also gives you a bit of idea what condition the transom

timber is in,replaced with nice new bungs & housing sealed all with sikaflex,after next outing allday on the

water back at ramp undo bung and no water in bilge at all ,yes that amount of water below will

affect the balance of the boat,solve water leak problem & should solve leaning problem,as for the steering

problem u may find it has to do with your hydrofoil size,i have a small two piece one on mine,70hp jonno,

swapped over & tried a large foil like yours & experienced similar problems you describe,bloody terrible

put small two piece back on all good,as with my motor they do like to guzzle fuel,good tune & no water

inside boat should see some improvement,sort these few problems out & you have a nice & very usable

boat,i do find them to be quite a dry & stable boat which will handle choppy waters without any real

problems,unfortunately i spend to much time in the truck & not the boat.

just a few things that worked for me & may be of some help to you,best of luck.

cheers.

Thanks for the information. I was about to start hacking into the boat tomorrow and cut a hole to put in a bilge pump. Now i think i should do the bung thing first. Was it straight forward to do? As in do i just unscrew the bung, and then unscrew the bung housing and replace it with a new one?. I just don't wanna stuff it up. Should i let a professional do it?.

[NAUTIGLASS15]

what you are saying about water coming into the motor well is normal if u stop quickly or u are at rest water

will flow into the well & sit,only alittle, when underway it will self drain out,may be worth checking

properly sealed around the hole so it doesnt seep into transom timber & make sure hole is clear of any debris,

you are right about no access from floor into bilge area unless you cut it out,i have a bilge pump mounted at

the back where the petrol tank indent is,works fine for any excess water that may be dragged inside the boat

due to swimming ect,

cheers.

[NAUTIGLASS15]

yes mate very simple fix,remove the screws then housing,anything like mine was when i removed the screws

the housing just fell out it was so unsealed,u may need to just carefully pryer around outer edge to remove,

if u remove the housing first & give it a good clean in & around the transom hole to remove any old

excess sealant,that way u can take it with u to your local boat supply shop and match it up,for memory the

new bung & housing was under $10,i replaced both top & bottom at the same time just for mind sake,

also will give it a bit of time to dry & air out around the hole while your at the shop checking out what

other goody's that u might want to buy for your new toy,( thats the fun part )when replacing i used a

generous amount of sikaflex in & around the housing,screw back into place & give a wipe around outer

housing edge for a nice clean leak free finish.

cheers

[aussie big bob]

puregeek

Just something you need to be carefull of with the steering problem. I would not asume that the steering issue is all to do with the water issue.

I have been in boats that do what they call chime walk, and at speeds this is dangerous. This is caused by foils being fitted to some outboards not run at the right trim or foil to large like bug mention.

I am in no way trying to put you off but just keep in the back of your mind. when you have all the water issue fix that you do some trails on trims settings at different speeds to insure the the lean problem is not chime walking .

cheers

bob

[puregeek]

puregeek

Just something you need to be carefull of with the steering problem. I would not asume that the steering issue is all to do with the water issue.

I have been in boats that do what they call chime walk, and at speeds this is dangerous. This is caused by foils being fitted to some outboards not run at the right trim or foil to large like bug mention.

I am in no way trying to put you off but just keep in the back of your mind. when you have all the water issue fix that you do some trails on trims settings at different speeds to insure the the lean problem is not chime walking .

cheers

bob

Hi bob,

Thanks for that. I couldn't find where the water was coming from, but i have fitted a bilge pump and that has solved my problem.

In regards to the steering, i found that if i trim my motor up the steering becomes lighter and makes it easier to steer. But when i corner hard sounds like the motor is out of the water more than it should be. I just adjust it as i go these days. Is it safe to do so?. Or do you think i should remove the foil?

Kev

[pelican]

When you have a friend on board and you are on the plane have him look at the foil and the cavitation plate it is attached to and where it is in relation to the waters surface. The foil should be above the water as they are designed to get the bum of the boat out of the water earlier by lifting it at lower speed but at full plane it should be clear of the water. If it isn't clear of the water it can cause all sorts of handling issues especially if it digs into the water on turns it can unsettle the boat.

As for the airation your are hearing when you are turning on the plane with the motor trimmed up that is pretty normal as the prop blows out and loses grip on the water and sucks in more air. Trimming in a little before cornering is the correct response or just don't trim out as much as you were if doing a fair bit of cornering.

If you can put up a photo of the transom from the side of the boat at the level of the bottom of the hull showing the relationship between the hull planing surface and the cavitation plate on motor ( wing) with motor trimmed flat. People themn may be able to comment if your motor is the correct height.

Easiest way to see if it is rain water in the hull from collecting on the tarp ( most likely) or water from harbour is to taste it. If it is salty it was from the harbour. Other way would be just to put hose over the tarp and see where you haven't tarped it right