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beakie

New T&r Line Class Pointscore

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Just wondering what the general feeling is towards the new introduced T&R lineclass pointscore.

I am against it as i feel it might bring with it some doubt towards the honesty of line class actually used(ie does the line have to be IGFA rated ? eg;fishing with 20 pd/10 kg braid,everyone knows that braid breaks way above what it is stated, also what about the health of the fish,after a long drawn out battle on light line i doubt the successful revival/relaese rate of a lot of fish thats if they revive at all.

I feel that the health of the fish is being risked considerably with this new system !!

Cheers guys

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Just wondering what the general feeling is towards the new introduced T&R lineclass pointscore.

I am against it as i feel it might bring with it some doubt towards the honesty of line class actually used(ie does the line have to be IGFA rated ? eg;fishing with 20 pd/10 kg braid,everyone knows that braid breaks way above what it is stated, also what about the health of the fish,after a long drawn out battle on light line i doubt the successful revival/relaese rate of a lot of fish thats if they revive at all.

I feel that the health of the fish is being risked considerably with this new system !!

Cheers guys

Beakie,

Your so right my friend.. This rule has put tag and release back to the days of Zane Grey..I was on the original committee in the mid '70's when we ( Peter Goadby, Tim Simpson, George Lee) put up two options to NSWGFA ..one the current system that has worked so well for over 30 years and the other option a line class deal.. This was not accepted because of

(a) long drawn out battles effecting the health of fish when released.

(B) The fact that cheating was encouraged. ' "We want a simple option " unquote

Here we are now reintroducing the whole issue which was knocked back so many years ago

MY POINT IS;

This is NOT about about angler skill in the fight this is about releasing fish that will live..I can see anglers fishing marlin at The Interclub on 8kg, snapping them off leaving those fish with 300 metres of line and a lure attached to die a slow painful death.

ANGLER SKILL should not enter the equation this is about TAG and RELEASE and survival of the specie.

From a professional Captain's point of view it is a major advantage for us guys having released 2880 billfish in my career on my boats..We won't snap them off and will catch them quickly, but this is not about us, this is about the FISH and it's survival.

I have written a similar letter to NSWGFA and Fisheries in protest.

Think about this one How are the GREENS going to react to this rediculous rule!

Totally agree with your thoughts.............................. A great post

Ross

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Ross,

I have known you for a lot of years, and respect your experience and expertise immensely. But I do feel the need to point out a couple of things.

Firstly, the previous T&R points system was implemented in 1989, not the 1970's. I know this because I was also at the relevant NSWGFA AGM when the system was introduced. If you look at the Interclub trophies history, you will see that the first time separate team trophies for Capture and T&R were awarded was 1990. You will no doubt remember that prior to the distinct split of the divisions, in the Interclub you received "bonus" points for tagged marlin, as capture points equivalent to the minimum weight for a marlin on the line class. I would still like to have that system now, but the split into 2 sections occured despite many protests.

Secondly, there is not a unanimous view that the previous system has been working well. There are many who believe that it has long past it's usefullness. T&R has certainly grown in popularity over time, but in recent years many boats have given up on competitive T&R due to it being solely a numbers game, without any regard to skills, strategy, sport, or in fact the survival of the quarry. One only has to look at some of the Interclub "Highlights" videos (eg around 2002 and 2003) to see the impact that a small fish, heavy tackle, long trace and gung-ho crew can have.

At the recent NSWGFA AGM the vote to replace the pointscore system was won 34-31. While this may seem a narrow victory, when you added up the number of members of the clubs supporting the change it was (by my reckoning) about 1800-1200, or something like that. That is because the larger clubs, who are already the leading T&R clubs, were all in support.

But the change did not come without careful consideration of the latest research on some of the issues you mention. Tim Simpson was one of the people who very helpfully provided some of Dr Julian's recent research, which essentially concluded that line class in itself was not the prime issue in guaging the survival of a fish. Speedy fights were often very bad for the fish, whereas fish were more settled after a reasonable fight time. Further, swimming a fish boatside was extremely important in enhancing the fishes chance of survival. The relevant articles and video supporting this were presented at the meeting.

I think that we were also told that the competition with the best recapture rates (+1% higher than average) of any local (ie Australian) tournament was one of the 6kg comps in FNQ - where the usual quarry are small blacks and sailfish. This is because the size of the fish is well matched to the line class. That is also the aim of the new system in NSWGFA - ie: despite what some doomsdayers may say, the logic is not to try and catch/tag everything that swims on 10kg tackle. It is to match the [likely] size of the fish with suitable tackle.

From memory your sub-committee's 1989 line class proposal had the whole T&R points scale closely mirroring the capture scale. When we started revisiting potential scoring methods over the past 5 or so years (and I have been on the equivalent subcommittee's in tha time), we made the conscious decision to group line classes 10kg and below, rather than having differential points right down to 4kg. This was done so that there is no encouragement to fish T&R with any lighter than 10kg tackle, so the people that talk of long drawn out fights with marlin on 4kg etc are shooting from the hip, without regard to the facts of the points table.

Ross - I know from experience that for much of the season down here you are fishing 15kg and 24kg for the average run of stripes and blacks you expect to get fishing your usual grounds inside of the shelf. If you head out wider you may swap the 15's for 37's in case a Blue jumps on. I would not expect that situation to change. That is sensibly matched tackle for the fish likely to be encountered, and allows reasonable fight times and fish being released in good condition.

However, as opposed to fishing the way you already do, one of the drawbacks with the previous system was that you were permitted (without any disadvantage in points) to fish the same grounds/ average fish with, say 37kg or even 60kg tackle. Because many, many people were doing that, and most ludicrously around areas like The Gibber, during runs of small blacks at the Interclub, it is what has turned a lot of people off even bothering with Tournaments, as it no longer involves the sporting ethics upon which this sport arose.

For their financial survival, Clubs (and the Association), depend upon people entering tournaments, so making this change should help assist that, as people (who do not want to fish capture) can now enter and have a chance at being competitive without resorting to the "all heavy tackle" option to compete in T&R with those boats who have fished tournaments to the full extent of the past rules, whether heavy tackle was sensibly required, or not.

There are also quite a number of "usually Capture" boats who are keen to compete in T&R on this basis, so a further change resulting from the new system may well be even fewer dead fish on the weighstation.

On a final note, it intrigues me when I read (perhaps not here but on other posts elsewhere) that the new system is bad because now people even with T&R will have to present all their gear at the weighstation (if requested to) to make sure it complies. I don't know what planet some people live on, but that has always been the case. Whether a fish is captured or whether it is T&R, the tackle rule requirements are the same. eg: you must use properly rated lines, and top shots/undershots must comply. Individual tournament rules usually govern whether braid is permissible at all.

I have seen plenty of times over the years, particularly at the Interclub, where people have come to the weighstation for T&R of say a dolphin fish, using a rod of say 10kg class, and been disqualified for having used a lure off one of their normal rigs, only to be told the trace is too long. "But is was OK yesterday". Maybe so, but not on this tackle class. Get to know all the rules guys !!

Cheers Bob [off soap box now...] :1fishing1:

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Oh, and by the way, it is not as if the new NSWGFA pointscore system is some wacko thing from left field.

As far as I can figure out, most other states in Australia have been differentiating T&R points between different line classes, for years. They are using our fishing licence funded NSW DPI tags, by the way, so surely it would be blatantly hypocritical for DPI/Fisheries to only oppose such a system in NSW!

The GFAA JUNIOR Competition has been running that great tournament (see http://www.gfaa.asn.au/html/junior_entry.pdf for this year's entry form by the way) with differentiated T&R points per line classes since inception. (and also using NSW DPI tags...)

Their system is in the rules section at -

http://www.gfaa.asn.au/html/junior_rules.pdf

As further comparison, prestigious tournaments worldwide often run with different T&R points for different line classes. Even better, ones like the HIBT combine the T&R and capture points to determine the overall winner.

So what we now have brings us more in tune with that others are already doing.

Cheers,

Bob.

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Oh, and by the way, it is not as if the new NSWGFA pointscore system is some wacko thing from left field.

As far as I can figure out, most other states in Australia have been differentiating T&R points between different line classes, for years. They are using our fishing licence funded NSW DPI tags, by the way, so surely it would be blatantly hypocritical for DPI/Fisheries to only oppose such a system in NSW!

The GFAA JUNIOR Competition has been running that great tournament (see http://www.gfaa.asn.au/html/junior_entry.pdf for this year's entry form by the way) with differentiated T&R points per line classes since inception. (and also using NSW DPI tags...)

Their system is in the rules section at -

http://www.gfaa.asn.au/html/junior_rules.pdf

As further comparison, prestigious tournaments worldwide often run with different T&R points for different line classes. Even better, ones like the HIBT combine the T&R and capture points to determine the overall winner.

So what we now have brings us more in tune with that others are already doing.

Cheers,

Bob.

Bob,

I know that you guys have been pushing for this rule for some years. You cannot change my mind on this. Tag and release is just what it says ...Bugger the skill factor for the anglers, that simply does not enter the equation.

On our boats we fish 15 and 24 exclusively, sensible tackle for our marlin stocks.

You cannot change my mind, but good luck with the ramifications from it and I really feel you are drawing massive scrutiny from others, who are keen to look at the cruelty factor of our marine species.

Maybe the rules were accepted in the '80's I thought personally it was earlier, I stand corrected.

If the greens get hold of this they will draw and quarter the deal.

Ross

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This is part of a email from a very respected charter boat operator,that clearly is not happy with the decision.

The whole argument for the new points score system is based around giving the fish an even and sporting chance for their life. Letting the skill of the angler fight the fish. This will be achieved by giving MORE points to someone who "Tags & Releases" a fish on lighter line. So they can win a trophy!1. There is no benefit for the fish in this new system.2. Longer fighting times (enviro groups say "Torture Time") are not good for the fish. 3. How do you police the line class at the weigh station?? just because a boat uses heavier line doesn't necessarily mean they are fishing heavier drag. Show me an angler who can fish 80lb or 130lb as a true 80 or 130! yet alone fishing lighter line.Let’s give the fish a real go;4. If you want to give the fish a sporting chance then why not turn off your engines when you hook-up? Turn off your sonar, turn off your sounder, turn off your GPS, turn off your radio, radar, cell phone, live well, clickers/ratchets, electric teaser reels, sat phone, laptops, hard drives, marlin magnets and satellite sea surface temp printers. Stop paying crews to catch bait, rig baits, tease fish, tag /gaff fish for you. Make the angler do it. I

know many anglers among you all that can do it any way! And yes it’s bloody great to see. But does it matter as I always thought of fishing as a team sport any way.5. Lets ban reverse gear.6. All boats with a tower are banned.7. All professional crews are to be blindfolded.8. All boats to be cut down to 8 meters.9. All tackle (which you will now need plenty of) will be sold to you by tournament sponsors and club officials.10. If these rules don’t suit then change them all until they suit you best. Move the posts.Welfare of the fish hey? Let the live baiting continue! This new system will in fact play directly into the hands of the professional/seasoned captains and crews. Yes that’s me and my peers.WHY then do you ask that I am so opposed to this new system??I am opposed as it places personal gain, greed above the welfare of the fish, the moral ethic of the sport and the membership base of ALL clubs. As usual it’s all about winning a piece of timber.

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The whole reason we live in a democracy is so that people with different views can exist side by side in harmony.

If anyone would like to read a pretty much opposite view to the thrust of the one copied in above, by one of Australia's top skippers, read the article "Billson on Billfish - The rules of engagement". It Googles up readily.

It is particularly well written and very thought provoking.

Cheers,

Bob.

PS:

Ross - I do not think the greenies are going to be any more cranky about what our sport does to "Sea Kittens" than they already are.

As I said earlier, when sensible tackle is being used (as you are doing already), then things are unlikely to change very much at all.

There is no advantage in points trying to chase things on lines below 10kg anyway, and logically no advantage in targetting fish that are too big to effectively control on the line class. You would prefer to get some points, in reasonable timeframe, than zero points for a lost fish.

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We have had point score on T & R line classes up here for last few years and I must say as far as I'm concerned I think they are a disaster. The whole concept of T & R is that the fish is released hopefully in a condition to survive. The skill of the angler / crew isn't the concern - the idea is that the fish survives the encounter to continue living. The statement that the line class rule attracts more people to fish the tournaments is subjective to whom you speak with. In my case and also a lot of my friends the opposite is true.

Lets look at the Innisfail Tournament last year (this is one of the Nth QLD Tournaments that were said to have highest recapture rates etc). I fished this tournament last year, and like most other boats fished 6kg for the pure reason that you had to to be competetive. There were only 3 or so fish tagged during the tournament all by charter boats. All the other fish (some 18 or more) were lost (most snapped off), this is a direct result of the light line class being used. Now how is this good for the tournament? The fish are running around with that line hanging out of them, The crews that fished the tournament are dissalusioned becaused they have found a few fish. lost them, feel they out of their league and come away with a negative. The competition looses its drive because there are not as many fish being tagged and people find it hard to even get started in the comp rather than having a fish or two in the runnings and feeling part of the whole show. We also have to spend more money having different setups for all the different tournaments with there different rules and line classes etc etc.

I think you would be mad to change from what you already have - I wish we did. No I dont like the line class idea, not at all.

Cheers - Bat

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This is part of a email from a very respected charter boat operator,that clearly is not happy with the decision.

The whole argument for the new points score system is based around giving the fish an even and sporting chance for their life. Letting the skill of the angler fight the fish. This will be achieved by giving MORE points to someone who "Tags & Releases" a fish on lighter line. So they can win a trophy!1. There is no benefit for the fish in this new system.2. Longer fighting times (enviro groups say "Torture Time") are not good for the fish. 3. How do you police the line class at the weigh station?? just because a boat uses heavier line doesn't necessarily mean they are fishing heavier drag. Show me an angler who can fish 80lb or 130lb as a true 80 or 130! yet alone fishing lighter line.Let’s give the fish a real go;4. If you want to give the fish a sporting chance then why not turn off your engines when you hook-up? Turn off your sonar, turn off your sounder, turn off your GPS, turn off your radio, radar, cell phone, live well, clickers/ratchets, electric teaser reels, sat phone, laptops, hard drives, marlin magnets and satellite sea surface temp printers. Stop paying crews to catch bait, rig baits, tease fish, tag /gaff fish for you. Make the angler do it. I

know many anglers among you all that can do it any way! And yes it’s bloody great to see. But does it matter as I always thought of fishing as a team sport any way.5. Lets ban reverse gear.6. All boats with a tower are banned.7. All professional crews are to be blindfolded.8. All boats to be cut down to 8 meters.9. All tackle (which you will now need plenty of) will be sold to you by tournament sponsors and club officials.10. If these rules don’t suit then change them all until they suit you best. Move the posts.Welfare of the fish hey? Let the live baiting continue! This new system will in fact play directly into the hands of the professional/seasoned captains and crews. Yes that’s me and my peers.WHY then do you ask that I am so opposed to this new system??I am opposed as it places personal gain, greed above the welfare of the fish, the moral ethic of the sport and the membership base of ALL clubs. As usual it’s all about winning a piece of timber.

Beakie

I have the same letter, from, in my opinion one of the most respected charter Captains in the country.

Winner of the last two or three Interclubs Tag and release and the big fella is NOT happy at all.

He is about to challenge his club over the decision

Ross

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The whole reason we live in a democracy is so that people with different views can exist side by side in harmony.

If anyone would like to read a pretty much opposite view to the thrust of the one copied in above, by one of Australia's top skippers, read the article "Billson on Billfish - The rules of engagement". It Googles up readily.

It is particularly well written and very thought provoking.

Cheers,

Bob.

PS:

Ross - I do not think the greenies are going to be any more cranky about what our sport does to "Sea Kittens" than they already are.

As I said earlier, when sensible tackle is being used (as you are doing already), then things are unlikely to change very much at all.

There is no advantage in points trying to chase things on lines below 10kg anyway, and logically no advantage in targetting fish that are too big to effectively control on the line class. You would prefer to get some points, in reasonable timeframe, than zero points for a lost fish.

Bob,

As you said It is a democratic country so we all beg to differ on some subjects. It was only last season when one of your own boats lost fish after long battles on light tackle..why ..no points and dead fish...WHY

As you can see this argument can be shuffled around forever, but no one can convince me that it's right.

Tag and release is just what it says and angler skill and thrill should never come into it.

The other member of our group on the original comittee was Julian Pepperel I forgot that before ( sorry JP)

We also worked together on the Fisheries tag and release system some time before that original proposal to NSWGFA.

Bob, your debate on the matter is much appreciatted and please accept my critisism as an opinion from someone who over the years has built up a love and a special affinity with my favourite species, the marlin, a fish that the more that you catch the more you want to protect and respect them.

So please mate do not take my thoughts personally I simply disagree with these rules and cannot be swayed in any other direction.

Ross Hunter

We have had point score on T & R line classes up here for last few years and I must say as far as I'm concerned I think they are a disaster. The whole concept of T & R is that the fish is released hopefully in a condition to survive. The skill of the angler / crew isn't the concern - the idea is that the fish survives the encounter to continue living. The statement that the line class rule attracts more people to fish the tournaments is subjective to whom you speak with. In my case and also a lot of my friends the opposite is true.

Lets look at the Innisfail Tournament last year (this is one of the Nth QLD Tournaments that were said to have highest recapture rates etc). I fished this tournament last year, and like most other boats fished 6kg for the pure reason that you had to to be competetive. There were only 3 or so fish tagged during the tournament all by charter boats. All the other fish (some 18 or more) were lost (most snapped off), this is a direct result of the light line class being used. Now how is this good for the tournament? The fish are running around with that line hanging out of them, The crews that fished the tournament are dissalusioned becaused they have found a few fish. lost them, feel they out of their league and come away with a negative. The competition looses its drive because there are not as many fish being tagged and people find it hard to even get started in the comp rather than having a fish or two in the runnings and feeling part of the whole show. We also have to spend more money having different setups for all the different tournaments with there different rules and line classes etc etc.

I think you would be mad to change from what you already have - I wish we did. No I dont like the line class idea, not at all.

Cheers - Bat

Bat,

Great post and good points made. We only fish one tournament a year and that is The Interclub and after 33 years it may be my last. Sometimes the politics can be overpowering It's sometimes better just going fishing without the dramas

Ross

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I'm no expert and have never been in a gamefishing tournament, but why not just specify they line class(es) to be used in a tag and release tournament? Usually you have a reasonable idea of the size of the target fish and the line class can be set at a class that will allow the fish to be landed reasonably quickly. This will take way the incentive to use an overly light line class and hence poor survival rate.

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Bat,

Great post and good points made. We only fish one tournament a year and that is The Interclub and after 33 years it may be my last. Sometimes the politics can be overpowering It's sometimes better just going fishing without the dramas

Ross

Roscoe,

I couldnt agree more. We are just about to start our tournament season now and I wont be putting the boat or crew into them. I'm driving a private boat for some local blokes up here that want to have a go at the tournaments. So thats what I will be doing. I dont enjoy politics in my fishing nor care much for all these mad rules that seem to go hand in hand with so called 'organised' events. Take the non sanctioned Cairns Light Tackle (which we won outright last year), also a line class for T & R, which also has this gem - 'A boat that wins Champion Boat can not win Champion Angler' - the idea being that the prizes are awarded to as many different people as possible so everyone can have a chance at winning a prize and has a good time, (thats fine in under 7's rugby but really isnt in the spirit of adult competition) This what happened to us last year, and to many boats before us as it stands to reason that a champion boat is likely to have the champion angler onboard. Anyway I fought tooth and nail against this madness and it was only when the commitee decided that they wanted to have the tournament sanctioned that they evoked this stupid rule as the QGFA would not allow such an unfair rule. At the end of the day we won and got the rule removed, but however at the end of the day I just sat down and thought its all to hard, the money, and time and effort that goes into trying to support these events may be better spent on more fuel to spend more time fishing.

All the politics detract from the sport, the purpose, and eventually the enjoyment of being there,

If you just go fishing none of this matters, they can have dental floss class if they want, who cares

cheers - Bat

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However, as opposed to fishing the way you already do, one of the drawbacks with the previous system was that you were permitted (without any disadvantage in points) to fish the same grounds/ average fish with, say 37kg or even 60kg tackle. Because many, many people were doing that, and most ludicrously around areas like The Gibber, during runs of small blacks at the Interclub, it is what has turned a lot of people off even bothering with Tournaments, as it no longer involves the sporting ethics upon which this sport arose.

So does this still mean that the bloke who tags the 200kg blue on 37kg off the shelf gets the same points as the bloke who tags the 30kg black inshore on 37kg? They do dont they. So on the other side the bloke fishing for bigger fish is being handicapped. Or do we now rely on the crew to call the species, approx weight etc? You could judt go on and on with different senarios - it just doesnt work. The idea to win tag and release is to tag the most fish simple. If the bights inshore then fish inshore - fish where ever you can find the most fish. If you want to taget big fish / small fish whatever do it in a non tournament enviroment. In the tournament just tag as many fish as you can simple, dont forget you still have to find them.

Maybe I'm not seeing something?

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As a professional crewman in the last 2yrs I've traced &released well over 200 marlins most stripes a few blacks and blues up to and over 500pound all on 24kg tackle the majority on live baits some on skirted lures honestly I can say all fish was livelly and appeared vibrant when released but for a few tail wrapped that we swum untill revived untill healthy enough to swim away.The vessels I crew on are purpose built for gamefishing and skippered buy extremely experienced marlin captains thus so our fish are caught with minimum fuss I know we could not achieve these numbers on lighter line class(not saying we couldn't catch the fish)I'm saying the prolonged fightimes to a point that the marlin can be released is shortening time spent in a days fishing and other guys chances of having a go on strike the skipper could well very easy just backdown hard on top of the trace in seconds but whose getting the thrill here?I know oLe skipp doesn't want a tonne of water over the transom each time we back down scaring the pants of the anglers and its just not angling letting the quarry have fair game I feel its really very menial for just a trophy and I don't care what people argue light line class is bad for the wellbeing of the marlins I know what I know from hrs on the water from june2007 to now is over 3700hrs.I've no problem with light line class but to put it into rules and a situation that to be competative everyone will do it is a dissregard in my opinion for the species but if you was going to dong the marlin use whatever line class you like not that I condone killing them after all they are a food source but it is a bad example to set if we killed every marlin we caught.These are a valuable resource and everyone cried foul each time the annihilation the longliners dump in the markets down the south coast so whats the difference here? they will get tailwrapped they will drown from trailing vast amounts of line and carcasses will litter our grounds these guys would not use 6kg for jewies so why use for it marlin come on fellas is the personification really worth the greater wellbeing of our sport..?

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Why do I get the feeling that many people insist this is basically a push for "Light Line Class Fishing", when it isn't. The points bonus/advantage stops at 10kg, and the level of points advantage is actually quite slim.

10kg is just one line class lower than many people regularly fish now without any qualms.

As long as the fish size is suitable (as it is for the average size fish off most of NSW for most of the year) then getting the fish on 10kg is quite realistic. With appropriate gear, boat and crew it should not involve long drawn out fights, nor should it involve exhausted fish.

However, 10kg will not be for everyone (and as I explained earlier, we would not fish it if bigger fish were around). Nor will 15kg for some. That is fine - each to their own.

By the way, I hope people have actually looked at how the points work.

In a possible/hypothetical situation where one boat might get, say 4 fish on 10kg, one gets 5 on 15kg, one 6 on 24kg and one say 7 on 37kg, THE WINNER IS ....................???...................

6 fish on 24kg (60,000pts).

At the rear of the field is the boat with 4 fish on 10kg (50,000), so that is hardly making life impossibly difficult for the people still choosing heavier tackle (with longer leaders and probably quicker fight times etc)

A few years back at the Interclub, we were fishing capture and put 2 fish on 10kg on the deck. One more good fish would have had us at Champion Boat, Capture. We ended up running 3rd.

In that same tournament we tagged 7 marlin (around 40-60kg models) on 8 & 10kg. The video footage of them was submitted for all to see. No issue with long fights; no issue with condition of fish. All swam away apparently healthy.

Now 7 fish tagged in some years would have had us right up there. But that particular year we only placed 30th in T&R !!

The leading boat had about 19 fish from memory. Ours being on 10kg would probably have made a bit of difference to our final placing under the new system, but in no way would have had us threatening anywhere near the lead being that far behind in numbers of fish.

That same year we were runner-up boat in SGFC pointscore T&R with a few more fish to those above - including 1 on 6kg (~60kg striped by a junior on a Xmas tree...) and a few on 15/24kg. We recalc'd the points at the time, and we would still have been runner-up to the boat who won. They had a few more fish, and had many of theirs on 15kg anyway. We were certainly closer in points, but still would have needed more fish to hit the lead.

I guess what I am saying is that I hope people at least give the new system a chance. I suspect it is not going to be such a problem once it gets underway, and most people I have spoken to reckon that they would rather a tied situation be decided on the basis of line class used, rather than time or a 25 point mahi mahi..

One day maybe we can have modifications for depth, estimated fish species and size etc, but that will not happen overnight.

Cheers,

Bob.

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Personally I feel the gripe with charter skippers could be the fact that they are trying to compete in these tournaments with paying clients who may not have the skill, experience or abilty to fish these lighter higher scoring lines to their limits. I'll happily fish 8-9kg of drag on 15kg, and am happy to fish 12-13kg on 24kg others may not. Theres no reason a good angler couldnt fish 10kg as hard as Joe blow fishes 15kg.

15kg and 24kg are both quite forgiving line classes witch allow plenty of room for angler error. Lighter lines dont, and this is where fight times will increase with a paying client told to take it easy and not pop off a fish.

A crew that is on the ball will fish as light as they feel confident in clocking up captures, I dont see them fishing 6kg and nailing 2 fish for the day when boats around them are getting 5's and 6's.

I like the look of the system, and am glad its been given a shot in NSW waters.

Chris

Edited by Aero

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Personally I feel the gripe with charter skippers could be the fact that they are trying to compete in these tournaments with paying clients who may not have the skill, experience or abilty to fish these lighter higher scoring lines to their limits. I'll happily fish 8-9kg of drag on 15kg, and am happy to fish 12-13kg on 24kg others may not. Theres no reason a good angler couldnt fish 10kg as hard as Joe blow fishes 15kg.

15kg and 24kg are both quite forgiving line classes witch allow plenty of room for angler error. Lighter lines dont, and this is where fight times will increase with a paying client told to take it easy and not pop off a fish.

A crew that is on the ball will fish as light as they feel confident in clocking up captures, I dont see them fishing 6kg and nailing 2 fish for the day when boats around them are getting 5's and 6's.

I like the look of the system, and am glad its been given a shot in NSW waters.

Chris

Aero,

My anglers I am proud to say have fished with me for 20 years and are the best you can have as a team, they can fish any tackle with great skill. Virtue of the fact we have won champion boat twice over the years as well as champ boat in many other tournaments at Pt Stephens.

So that puts a giant hole in your theory.

The fact is that the skippers find the fish and the anglers wind in the line and then tag and release. I guess that's why the best anglers chose to fish with us

We fished down as low as 10kg many, many times on the small blacks in '97 and released 248 fish for the season inc the then Port record of 18 billfish in a day.

Ross

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Aero,

My anglers I am proud to say have fished with me for 20 years and are the best you can have as a team, they can fish any tackle with great skill. Virtue of the fact we have won champion boat twice over the years as well as champ boat in many other tournaments at Pt Stephens.

So that puts a giant hole in your theory.

The fact is that the skippers find the fish and the anglers wind in the line and then tag and release. I guess that's why the best anglers chose to fish with us

We fished down as low as 10kg many, many times on the small blacks in '97 and released 248 fish for the season inc the then Port record of 18 billfish in a day.

Ross

Ross no offence but if you did it then why can't you do it now.

Cheers Silvo

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Aero,

My anglers I am proud to say have fished with me for 20 years and are the best you can have as a team, they can fish any tackle with great skill. Virtue of the fact we have won champion boat twice over the years as well as champ boat in many other tournaments at Pt Stephens.

So that puts a giant hole in your theory.

The fact is that the skippers find the fish and the anglers wind in the line and then tag and release. I guess that's why the best anglers chose to fish with us

We fished down as low as 10kg many, many times on the small blacks in '97 and released 248 fish for the season inc the then Port record of 18 billfish in a day.

Ross

i don't reply too much on this site but i read things often

i have comented on other sites voiceing my dislike to the new pointscore and it is good to see other now getting there dislike out there too

as said here from the NQLD comp now in nsw really to be in the hunt for T&R comp you will need to run 10kg gear to get max point and try and hunt out the smaller fish

sure would want to fish over the shelf or on the shelf where you may get a blue and sure wouldn't run anything over 24kg gear only to lose points for doing so

sure is a hell of a diffreance between 12500 for running 10kg gear on smaller marline to 7500 for runing 60kg gear and tagging a 150kg blue while out looking for a grander thats a lose of 5000 points

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Ross,

This was not a shot at you, or your Interclub team and with the results stated you would have no issues with either system. I was well aware that you have been fishing with interclub with the same team for quite a while now.

I know many people who have hired the best boat, with the best gear and the best skipper to of course get the best results. Now if these people are not the best anglers then there will be a compromise between crew, captain and of course matching gear to the clients ability.

Anyway, it was just my opinion on a small aspect of the new system, one I'll stand by. It has at least eliminated the ability for a novice to purchase a victory in a competition by hiring the local guns of the area, Your angling skills have relevance now.

It is a competition at the end of the day, and if you dont like the rules, no ones forcing you to enter. Go out there and enjoy your day on the water.

Chris

P.S I wonder how many boats will be skull dragging 70-90kg stripes off baitballs with 37kg this interclub?

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The question was a general one on T&R pointscoring system ,not pointing fingers at other fisherman and seeing who can and cant do what!!!.

Stick to the question at hand or this post will become extinct.

Their has been much talk about this in many places and no one seems to agree on a consensus.

That is shown by the vote and it was a secret ballot :1yikes: and a close one at that.

Regards Admin.

Please note that this topic will be closely monitored by Admin and the Mods.

I agree Stewy no one will ever win on this one. It has its good and bad points and in the end I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Cheers Silvo

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Anyway, it was just my opinion on a small aspect of the new system, one I'll stand by. It has at least eliminated the ability for a novice to purchase a victory in a competition by hiring the local guns of the area, Your angling skills have relevance now.

It is a competition at the end of the day, and if you dont like the rules, no ones forcing you to enter. Go out there and enjoy your day on the water.

Chris

P.S I wonder how many boats will be skull dragging 70-90kg stripes off baitballs with 37kg this interclub?

i know that not much this happins up north and even if you do hire the so called local guns you still have to find the fish and i think we all know the finsing and angleing marlin is alot diffrent to tossing slices into a gutter at a beach for taylor

i also know i would be calling it skull draging a 70-90kg marlin on 37kg it sure has never been that easy when i have hooked one

marlin at all sizes can give a angler a fair bit of curry

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I think we all know the finsing and angleing marlin is alot diffrent to tossing slices into a gutter at a beach for taylor

Fishing for marlin on 24kg and 10kg is very different as well.

i also know i would be calling it skull draging a 70-90kg marlin on 37kg it sure has never been that easy when i have hooked one

marlin at all sizes can give a angler a fair bit of curry

When you watch boats go from bite, to hook up and then to Tag shot in under 10 minutes you opinion on this changes.

Chris

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