Rod Selection

[Bill S]

Hi Guys

I need some suggestions for a graphite rod suited to larger plastics and medium metal lures, something around the :confusuion: 7+ foot mark. Targets are smaller kings, salmon and jews. I''m not prepared to spend above $200''ish

I''m thinking 14 lb fireline on a stradic/inspira.

Any suggestions??????

Bill

[Matt]

Howdy Bill, I would have a look at the Shimano Raider series, especially if you want to spend under $200. I have a 6''8" Rack Raider (its 2-5kg), I bought it originally for HB''s in the racks but it has been forwarded to both the metal flicking department and is my Jewfishing Stick as well. It might be a littl light for what you are after but its worth checking out to see if they have a slightly heavier model.

Maybe the Daiwa Procasters are worth a look as well?

Cheers

Windy

Edited August 27, 2004 by Matt

[Guest Jocool]

As Matt said, the raiders are pretty cool. That is my weapon of choice on the Salmon. :thumbsup: Dont they also have a Barra Spin in the Raider range which is heavier again?

Procasters are pretty cool rods too!

Another that MAY be worth a mention is the Shakespeares. They have theIntrepid I think its called...and an Ugly Stik Graphite! Not sure what weights they are rated too! :confusuion:

[Bashir]

Check out the Ugly Stick Lites. They''re 100% graphite and have nice long butts that are perfect for whacking out a metal.

[mitch]

I''m with Joe and Matt. I like the Raiders and they have a lot of holding power I also have the 6''8 2-5kg model and it is a very versatile rod.

[Bill S]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I looked at the Shimano range, they seemed too heavy or too light :confusuion:

Bashir, the Ugly Lites looked the goods but felt umm??? wrong.

The rod that really felt good in the hand was a Procaster Z 701MLFS, Very nice. The price was a bit more than I wanted to pay :idea: but it''s Fathers Day soon and I qualify :ohyeh: .

Matched with a 2500/4000 Stradic and ?? 10lb Fireline, sounds about right.

Does anyone own this model rod, how do you find it?

Bill

[Grantm]

GDay,

I was going to ask this question on the "Another rod question" link but im not going anywhere near that one !

I am pretty much a novice compared to you guys but do know a thing or two. I have fished with some very expensive gear (borrowed ) and also what I own, Rex combos from Kmart with Shimano stuff, and excuse my ignorence but I cant tell the difference ! I m sure it is only my inexperience, but what makes a $600.00 plus rod and reel combo so much better than a $69.50 special. Ive caught some big fish and even sharks on 4000 series Shimano gear by Rex and its never let me down.

This is an honest question - why pay $600.00 plus? what do you get?

Sorry if you think this is a dumb question, theres just a big price difference. I also understand that some of these cheap combos are just crap quality.

Thanks

[Grantm]

Thank you for your response Iain,Fishn

I dont like my chances of a 50 pound Jew so ill probably stick to kmart specials. I wash them down with fresh water and a light brush when I get home, and there still as good as new after a couple of years. I found if I didnt wash them the reels would rust up and the guides would corode very easily and last about a year only.

It is interesting to note the better casting performance. Only an experienced angler could tell probably. :-rod

It just seems funny when you go into a tackle shop and see rods alone worth $300.00 and not being able to see a noticeable difference. Reels you can see a difference and you assume the gears are better, better drags etc. I just dont get the rods.

Gene Dundon has caught some record breaking Jew in his time on what would be classified by todays standards as an avereage rod and reel. Probably sharpened his hooks with a stone as well ! Thats another topic I suppose.

Thanks

Edited August 30, 2004 by Grantm

[Hooky.]

Grant, it all comes down to what you are comfortable with.

You are no lesser an angler having cheap gear as those with expensive gear.

In saying that, most of my rods are "cheapies", even my fly rod, but I do have 1 rod which whilst isn''t that expensive it cost a few more pennies than my cheap stuff.

I bought it specifically for breamin'', EP''s and light estuary/bay work. The difference I get with my casting of SP''s and HB''s is far more superior than the cheapies and it weighs a lot less. Which in turn means I can flick all day without having aching limbs at the end of the day. :thumbsup:

cheers :grogon:

hooky

[Grantm]

Yeah good point Iain,

If you can wear a rod out before it falls apart, I guess that justifies spending extra dollars.

I come from a age where unless you kick ass with the old gear dont ask for new stuff. I didnt own a new set of golf clubs until I was off single figures !

I probably wont buy better gear until I can learn to catch fish with cheap stuff.

I am a big fan of technology but I guess I still see rods as a graphite pole with rings on it, I sometimes think companies are cashing in on peoples notion that if its expensive it must be good, or if I buy an expensive rod ill catch more fish! ( appologies to rod building sponsor only my opinion, not meant to offend ) I know this applies to other industries.

It would be interesting to know at what level quality and performance stops but price keeps going. ITS ONLY A POLE - JOKING ! :ohyeh: Maybe someone can shed some light.

[blawler]

My most expensive rod was $140. That is what I use mostly for soft plastics, it is a light Penn rod. I normally dont buy for brands, I look at what I want to spend, then have a hold and play with alot of rods that meet this price cap. The one I like most on the day is the one I buy. I havent had a rod break on me yet (including the old Jarvis Walker Kmart special that caught the biggest bream I have ever seen at about 45cm or so). Just go to some tackle shops ask around, but buy what you are comfortable with..

brad

[Rick T]

need some suggestions for a graphite rod suited to larger plastics and medium metal lures, something around the  7+ foot mark. Targets are smaller kings, salmon and jews. I''''m not prepared to spend above $200''''ish

I''''m thinking 14 lb fireline on a stradic/inspira.

G''day Bill

Try spin rods around the 4-8kg range, I am not sponsored by anyone and not fussed what rod u end up getting but I''ll tell u what I have been using. I have 2 rods that I have recently purchased for this exact purpose. A squidgy Barra 4-8kg 6''6 matched with a 4000 shimano symetre. rod price was about $100. I have also purchased a BD Barra Hunter 4-7kg 6''6 priced at $240 and matched it with a 4000 shimano stradic. Both rods perform exceptionally well, the BD is finished a bit better and has alconite guides where as the barra has hardloys. Both are tough as (my rod holder broke before the barra rod did) and for scull draggers like myself who are not into playing pelagics for half an hour they do the job much quicker while still being challenging. They also have a stiff enough tip to work perfectly for trolling rapalas, sluggos etc.

I am pretty much a novice compared to you guys but do know a thing or two. I have fished with some very expensive gear (borrowed ) and also what I own, Rex combos from Kmart with Shimano stuff, and excuse my ignorence but I cant tell the difference ! I m sure it is only my inexperience, but what makes a $600.00 plus rod and reel combo so much better than a $69.50 special. Ive caught some big fish and even sharks on 4000 series Shimano gear by Rex and its never let me down.

This is an honest question - why pay $600.00 plus? what do you get?

The old school fisherman would ask the same question to you, why do you pay $70 for a rod and reel when u can do the same thing with a hand reel at $10? I think it comes down to a few things such as how u fish and how often u fish. If u r sitting in a boat in reasonably shallow water (up to 20m) bottom bashing with baits then a $600 outfit will do little more than a $70 outfit unless u hook something that is going to test its limits. If u r going to accurately cast light weighted lures all day you will absolutely notice the difference between a $70 and $600 outfit with things like casting distance, weight, responsiveness and sensitivity. If you are going to be catching hard running fish consistantly you will also notice the difference between the different priced outfits. The performance of the rod under high pressure along with the reliability of a good reel will mean alot more success in landing these type of fish. The same question gets asked about braid and mono lines and again both have their applications, as I said it has more to do with how and how often you fish to whether a $70 rod or $600 is suited to your needs. In either situation I don''t think anyone should be judged by the gear they use, as long as u enjoy your fishing and can justify the cost to yourself.

[AdamK]

A squidgy Barra 4-8kg 6''''6 matched with a 4000 shimano symetre.  rod price was about $100.  I have also purchased a BD Barra Hunter 4-7kg 6''''6 priced at $240 and matched it with a 4000 shimano stradic.  Both rods perform exceptionally well, the BD is finished a bit better and has alconite guides where as the barra has hardloys.

Rick

could you post up the model number of the Squidy barra rod. I can''t find it anywhere and every shop I go to shows me a different rod

Adam

[Grantm]

Thanks for your comments Rick, what you say makes total sense now that youve explained it . When you walk in to a tackle shop and your a bit of a novice, chosing the right gear can be a bit overwhelming at times. I can see understanding the performance characteristics of the rod takes time and experience and the better you get the more detail you pick up in a rods performance. :thumbsup:

Edited August 30, 2004 by Grantm

[Guest bluecod]

Grantm,

I''ve got rods made up from expensive blanks and also off the shelf cheapies. I''ve also made up rods from broken throw outs found in the garbage bin. From time to time they have all served their purpose and do not get thrown away. One word of caution though, you''ll never be able to fully assess a rod in a shop. Learnt that the hard way - bought a top "name" blank to make up into a 8kg HSS stick and found that it reached its maximum fighting power in the top 50% of the blank, after that no matter how much effort you put into it, the lower half of the rod wouldn''t load up.

As to reels - different story altogether. This is where "You get what you pay for". Buy the best you can afford and look after them - I''ve got reels at least 25 years old still in perfect working order. They were relatively expensive when I bought them, but over, say a 10 year period, the cost is not much and I can rely on them to do the job.

What do you say when you finally crack that 4 lb bream or get hit by a reasonable jew only to have your reel fail, K-Mart don''t offer warranties for disappointment.

You''re doing the right thing by getting onto a forum such as this and asking questions and for assistance when you need it.

[Rick T]

could you post up the model number of the Squidy barra rod. I can''''t find it anywhere and every shop I go to shows me a different rod

Shimano SFS Squidgy Barra Spin 66 4-8kg. It is in the catelogue under the steve starling series and has been available in every tackle store I have been in.

[Grantm]

Thanks Bluecod

Between you and RichT Ive learnt more about rods in this forum that any tacle shop has ever told me :thumbsup: I know my question may have sounded stupid to some, and maybe even offended some who have expensive gear (not intended)but i do have a genuine interest in this topic as It is something I dont understand very well yet. I hope you dont mind if I ask more basic questions down the track

Thanks Guys

[allen glover]

geez where do I start!!!

The first point is you have to be comfortable with what your using after all were doing this for the enjoyment and if the tackle aint comfy it aint fun.

If you get your jollies from pushing the limits of your fishing you have to use matching high performance tackle. No records were ever broken on cheap tackle.

If your after the added enjoyment or just like the feel of higher performance tackle then thats also an equally valid reason.

If you want reliability in your componentry then theres another reason. ( theres a viable industry out there that simply replaces guides on cheap stuff)

Then theres specialisation. Factory rods by there very nature have to be designed for generic fishing applications. You dont honestly believe that a rod built O/S by a multinational and that retails locally for $100 or so was ACTUALLY designed specifically for Aust conditions and local methods. Regardless of what the stickers on it says its simply economically unviable.

All this and I havent even touched on issues like manufacturing quality, import costs and profit margins, marketing tactics, the commercial imperative, etc

two fundemental factors always arise in this sort of discussion. As with all high performance equipment small performance increases can cost significantly so if you want or need the best possible gear( and who doesnt deserve it) for the fishing you enjoy then you will unfortunately have to pay that bit extra . Also a hyundai and a ferrari will both get you from Ato B but I know which one will have me grinning from ear to ear and which one will leave me flat and uninspired when I get there.

Saying all that though in the end I reckon it all comes down to what puts the biggest on your dial.

Edited August 31, 2004 by allen glover

[Grantm]

Allan

I hear what your saying, please dont think I was having a go at the good gear. Im simply trying to find out what makes good gear good. The boys have done a good job too. my Rexy specials are ok at the moment but if I ever start catching good fish consistantly that will be the test i suppose.

I have a good idea ! I would be more than happy for you to send me a free Shearwater rod and ill compare it to my stuff :ohyeh: :ohyeh: :ohyeh:

Seriously its all about enjoyment and being happy with what you got, your right.

PS I use $12 golf balls most people think im an idiot ! but I love em :thumbsup:

Cheers

[Rick T]

geez where do I start!!!

G''day Allen

Great to see a professional opinion on this topic :thumbsup: . I know u don''t like to be pushy with promoting your rods but I do beleive u should also be replying to Bill by giving him information on what sort of rod you could build for his purpose and price range. Not only does it inform a valid customer of what is available from shearwater but it also informs and opens options to all the members and visitors including myself who are looking for this type of rod. I realise that this is really not your style and you seem quite humble when it comes to promoting your rods but most of us are lazy and will act on presented information rather than having to chase it up. Just my opinion and hope it doesn''t offend, I am not refering to force feeding us on every oportunity but giving us options every now and again would be helpful. You support the site for us and you are entitled to more than just a banner link.

[allen glover]

Allan

I hear what your saying, please dont think I was having a go at the good gear. Im simply trying to find out what makes good gear good. The boys have done a good job too. my Rexy specials are ok at the moment but if I ever start catching good fish consistantly that will be the test i suppose.

I have a good idea ! I would be more than happy for you to send me a free Shearwater rod and ill compare it to my stuff  :ohyeh:  :ohyeh:  :ohyeh:

Seriously its all about enjoyment and being happy with what you got, your right.

PS I use $12 golf balls most people think im an idiot ! but I love em  :thumbsup:

Cheers

Grant

Come along to the next SP social day. Im aiming to have some new samples ready for it so you guys can have a play with the latest and greatest from my stable. Im really excited about the newest ranges of blanks I can get and I think you guys will be too.

Allen

[Grantm]

Alan ill try to get there, thanks for the input. If not I live on the coast i will try to visit your shop and have a look.

I dont mind buying good gear I just need to justify it and understand what im paying for. Maybe Demo rods would be a good idea, id certainly try some out. Its hard for me to buy something more expensive without trying it out first. Maybe a lot of people are the same.

Cheers :grogon:

[bombora]

Hey Grant, don''t apologise for your questions; they are excellent and totally legit. Questions like yours create great debates!!!!

Constant problem IMHO in some sites is very very expensive rods being pushed when most/many merely want functional economic rods etc. I love the tackle heads with 30 rods amongst us. love their passion for their gear, their knowledge etc but not everyone''s the same.

Coupla things; I think the Shimano Squidgy Barra spin (and the other Squidgy spins) don''t have Fuji guides _ they are Chinese copies. The Shimano Raiders do carry Fujis though.

Speaking of which, hey Allen, you say you can''t get a locally designed OS made rod for $100 approx, what about said Squidgy spins and Raiders (a touch more expensive). Their whole marketing schtick is based on em being specifically Barra Miller designed blanks for the Oz market isn''t it?? Anyway, can you give a hint on your latest designs: any longer style rods in the range? Your input makes excellent reading. cheers Bombie

[Grantm]

Thanks for the support Bombora,

This forum has a lot of very experienced angles in it and can be a bit intimidating. Sometimes an innocent comment or question can be taken the wrong way or offensivley by people ''in the know'' when it is an innocent question. I hope everyone understands I am a novice compared to you guys and my questions or comments are not meant to offend im just trying to learn. I have noticed that a lot of basic and simple questions dont get much of a response at times which is a pity. I will probably ask more of them anyway. One thing ive got is plenty of questions :gleam:

[allen glover]

geez this is going to get me in trouble!

Id like to leave names out of this as much as I can. Its not my place to comment on others specific efforts or bussiness practices

I will comment on the way I see tackle sales and marketing in Aust as a whole though and theres no easier way to do this than by simply looking at the economics. Eexcluding some of the more exotic sales regimes utilised by some wholesalers in this country

Lets say a big name factory rod retails for $150-$200

working on the industry STD of 100% markup we are looking at a rod that wholesales in this country for $75-$100.

again 100% markup from the wholesaler and were lookang at a rod that cost them $35-$50 to LAND here.

Finally the manufacturer has to make a profit so your looking at a rod that cost significantly under $50 to make. Even with the massive economies of scale and purchasing power the actual manufacturers have. they still have the commercial imperative of making an item to meet a retail price point as cheaply as possible and to maximise profits along the way.

Take this concept to the other end of the scale and think of what quality cuts will be made to retail an item made O/S and sells locally for $50 .

For the big players in most consumer markets let alone fishing tackle its all about 3 things

1 maximising profit

2 minimising expense

3 and moving units to do so.

Its this 3rd factor that you start seeing the retail marketing campiagns

Now Im wont deny, refute or infer for a minute that the claims made by the factories to market a product are anything but what they say they are but what I will claim is that they arent one iota more than what they say they are either. Why would a factory go to all the trouble of paying a designer to fully design test and commision( a job that should take a considerable amount of time effort and $$ to do properly), all the expense of retooling, producing etc etc all to sell a few 1000 units for a few $$ profit on each. Don''t you think it would be easier to use existing generic factory componentry designed for the world wide market. tinker with it to tune it as much as it can be for local conditions and to validate the claim of "designed in aust for aust conditions" then just work off that. Afterall crop a blank 2 inches or select the guide type and you can claim design rights to the whole rod.

Also they are better off spending money on marketing to move units than designing them. Cos afterall in the factories eyes consumers arent individuals with indivdual needs or standards .but are a collective who will buy whatever rods they tell you too if they push the right stimulatory buttons.

The hard part to them is not necessarily about producing the best possible product to meet a retail price point but in how they tell you it is.

This is all my cynical opinion and not targeted at any company or designer in specific. Im quite happy for anyone to come along and correct any errors I may have put here and apologies in advance if anyone takes offence at this as none was intended its just the way I see it and Im the first to admit I may be wrong or incorrect.

A

Edited August 31, 2004 by allen glover