Pill Boxes / Forts At West Head

[SteveWoyWoy]

Hi Ladies and Gents

I landed on this site last night while searching on Google , I was looking for info on the WW2 fortifications at West Head , Pittwater NSW , rather than bump up the old post I found I thought I would make a dedicated one here

Can anyone place a mark on Google Earth and send me the kmz. file or just give a good description of the locations of the 2 pill boxes they may have noticed while in the area fishing , any info at all on this site or the Juno Point gun emplacment / any other military type installations in the Hawkesbury River would be greatly appreciated , I write local history stories for my local paper ( Peninsula News ) and would appreciate your help

Thanks

[Gremlin]

Mate i've spent so much time exploring old military bunkers its not funny, my personal favorites are on the harbor or near by (Middle Head, South Head & Malabar/Anzac Rifle Range), but there are a few up there I should have written down somewhere

The ones on west head are pretty easy to find, they are just down from West Head look out

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-33.577802,151....mp;nmd=20091020 here it is in the center of the map, you can tell its the Pill Box by looking at the criss cross pattern on the roof, and if you move the aerial image up a bit you can notice another just out of frame

[SteveWoyWoy]

Thanks a heap Gremlin you saved me some time bush bashing , no wonder I couldn't find it on Google Earth , the Near Maps images are much clearer ! Excellent site that

I'm doing some research on the Forts between Sydney and Newscastle , there are quite a few as you said , I think I have most of them plotted out now , planning to do some photo trips when it gets a bit cooler

I found this site on the Sydney Batteries worth a look , it lists all of them http://bunkerstunnelsfortsinsydneyingeneral.blogspot.com/

Re the West Head battery I found both on the map and think I found another building ( Command Post maybe ) along the shore a bit further towards Pittwater , also I have a description of another pill box around the corner in Pittwater near Resolute Beach , but can't spot it , If anyone can verify any more buildings that would be great

Cheers

[framedtrash]

its a great bait ground for yakkas slimeys and squid

Edited January 29, 2010 by Framedtrash

[Gremlin]

Thanks a heap Gremlin you saved me some time bush bashing , no wonder I couldn't find it on Google Earth , the Near Maps images are much clearer ! Excellent site that

I'm doing some research on the Forts between Sydney and Newscastle , there are quite a few as you said , I think I have most of them plotted out now , planning to do some photo trips when it gets a bit cooler

I found this site on the Sydney Batteries worth a look , it lists all of them http://bunkerstunnelsfortsinsydneyingeneral.blogspot.com/

Re the West Head battery I found both on the map and think I found another building ( Command Post maybe ) along the shore a bit further towards Pittwater , also I have a description of another pill box around the corner in Pittwater near Resolute Beach , but can't spot it , If anyone can verify any more buildings that would be great

Cheers

That site misses out plenty to be honest!

I have precise locations of a lot of these places, as well as first hand knowledge from having personally bush bashed and explored them but I wont hand these out on an open forum or to anyone I don't personally know due to the locations and not wanting to see them trashed etc I'm sure you understand wanting to protect such places and the hazardous nature of the locations, some old bunkers for example are asbestos infested and require the use of safety equipment to enter including respirators and full disposable dust suits etc

Others require ropes and abseiling/climbing to safely explore or to even access, also some are in locations that put your safety in serious danger due to the dilapidated nature of them so I don't want to be responsible for someone killing or seriously injuring themselves, but if you PM me we can chat about it some more, and if you are legit and check out I might personally show you around a few locations

[jewgaffer]

That site misses out plenty to be honest!

I have precise locations of a lot of these places, as well as first hand knowledge from having personally bush bashed and explored them ......I don't want to be responsible for someone killing or seriously injuring themselves, but if you PM me we can chat about it some more, and if you are legit and check out I might personally show you around a few locations

Hi Gremlin

I was about to reply to SteveWoyWoy's post and let him know that he might be interested in a third bunker which is along the same line but a good distance away from the two bunkers at West Head. This particular old bunker is much flatter and sits much lower to the ground than the other two bunkers and may even have a dig out underneath. It seems to have a two man opening with perhaps elbow room for say each one of two machine gunners perhaps?, and the actual opening appears from the water to somewhat like a figure eight at the front... each half of this elongated figure eight shaped opening, if not perfect, seems to be reasonably symetrical from the water. It's hard to make out where it is from the water, near impossible in fact because it seems to match the rock colours in the background and also the foreground rocks going to the water line and beyond. I have known exactly where this bunker is behind the rocks and actually happened to point it out to my friend FR Geoff yesterday morning when we came in close sounding out for fish along the particular cliff face.

Not that it is a particular bait ground because of the water depth and nature of the bottom, and now having read the post, I am wondering whether you or StevieWoyWoy might happen to know of this particular old bunker or whether you may need to know exactly where it is perhaps?

Cheers

jewgaffer

[Gremlin]

Hey Jewgaffer

These pill boxes are generally attached to a coastal battery, there was one on West Head, and also another on Juno Point just opposite it

They protected our coast from the Japs/germans etc, you usually had a lookout tower if needed (there is one at Malabar in the Anzac Rifle Range and one at Middle Head I've been in both for example) a few observation posts/pill boxes spread out and a Gun battery with generally 2 coastal artillery gun pits with tunnels or trenches with powder/projectile magazines connected, and the sites generally had a mine type mini railway line to carry the heavy arty shells etc up to their location and some close defensive observation posts and that

If you look around there you will find plenty of things like that, though I'm not sure how much of west head survived since i think most of it was demolished for some camp that used to be there before it was turned into a look out, but the gun pits still exist as well as the pill boxes, I also think the old mini railway for carts is still there just below the lookout

[SteveWoyWoy]

@ Framedtrash - thanks for the pic there puts a bit more perspective on it

@ Jewgaffer - is it the one just around the headland facing into Pittwater ? I found a description of one there in a bushwalking guide , and I think I seen it years back from the ferry. Definately interested in the location of the one you know of.

@ Gremlin - yep I understand what you are saying about keeping things like this away from the general public , basically I just want to get some good current photos of the West Head bunkers for an article I'm writing , I also contribute to www.ozatwar.com adding to their data base as well as the Peninsula News , with things like this only a vague location is given , I find once people have good pictures to look at they are satisfied and don't bother visiting the harder to get to locations , same applies with Aboriginal carvings and paintings in my area ( Woy Woy )

I have some articles here on my site as well www.woy-woy.com

I will definately consider your offer .. sounds fun , I have an interest in military sites along the coast , have found 2 lost airfields and 1 radar station so far

Basically I'v visited most of the Sydney ones and some in Newcastle , working on the more obscure ones between the cities now so anything like this you have info one would be great

Thanks guys

[jewgaffer]

That site misses out plenty to be honest!

I have precise locations of a lot of these places, as well as first hand knowledge from having personally bush bashed and explored them but I wont hand these out on an open forum or to anyone I don't personally know due to the locations and not wanting to see them trashed etc I'm sure you understand wanting to protect such places and the hazardous nature of the locations, some old bunkers for example are asbestos infested and require the use of safety equipment to enter including respirators and full disposable dust suits etc

Others require ropes and abseiling/climbing to safely explore or to even access, also some are in locations that put your safety in serious danger due to the dilapidated nature of them so I don't want to be responsible for someone killing or seriously injuring themselves, but if you PM me we can chat about it some more, and if you are legit and check out I might personally show you around a few locations

Hi Gremlin with respect to your last reply, it seems from his topic that SteveWoyWoy has a genuine interest in finding out where all the wartime bunkers in the Hawkesbury actually are.

As a matter of interest does it matter to you where the third bunker in Pittwater is or not as I not sure if you already know where it is as you haven't really answered the question I asked in my post.

I have known where this particular bunker is for many years now and as it seems it is only noticeable from the water and difficult to distinguish from the surrounding rock and I would be able describe exactly where to find it if anyone wanted to know where it is.

So can you tell me exactly where this bunker is or not? and I'll let you know if it is the same one I showed my friend Geoff aka Geoff on Fishraider only yesterday morning when we fished the first part of our Hawkesbury session in Pittwater. The interesting part of it as far as I'm concerned is that the deep water in front of that particular bumker is a good jewfish spot during the run out tide at night.

Cheers

jewgaffer

[stoney]

The interesting part of it as far as I'm concerned is that the deep water in front of that particular bumker is a good jewfish spot during the run out tide at night.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Best that you be telling me this bunkers exact GPS co-ordinates Byron

[jewgaffer]

Best that you be telling me this bunkers exact GPS co-ordinates Byron

By the way SteveWoyWoy I wouldn't hesitate to give you the exact location of this particular pill box that makes up the three that I know of in Pittwater.

I don't think you could get down there hiking. If you don't own a boat, perhaps one of our members may offer to take you there in their boat to help you with the research you are doing as a journalist. You could probably hop off the bow and go up there around the big rocks fairly easily I'd say and take a look and close up photo or two... This pill box to my eye has a much different appearance to the two at the bait grounds and might have been a special bunker perhaps, but nevertheless I'm not sure of that. It could be quite interesting if this bunker was in fact a special purpose bunker specially designed to be camoflagued and hard to see in amongst the rocks to do a particular job during the war ay. I did point particularly this bunker out to my good friend Geoff after we had our bait and kingfish session on Thursday morning so that he could find it later when his old friends that he travels away with look him him up exaxtly where to find this particular jew fish spot in Pittwater and I actually happened to say that this pill box appears to have more of a sculptured two man opening at the front and is hard to make out as a pillbox and I remarkes that it is so much different to the bigger pill boxes that were designed to use for heavier artillary etc.

By the way Stony, you have been around long enough so I don't mind telling you where to anchor near the particular disguised bunker Stony but it would have be in return for an on water gps lession I'm afraid, as I do have an eagle gps on my boat that I bought for Ballina that seems to have a complicated menu but there is no book for people like me to read up on to find out how to use it. So if you don't have a decent boat with rod holders on it without any plastic adjustables or otherwise anywhere in sight and guarantee not to give me a headache about general sinker weights or something as ridiculous as that lol your in business subject to a chat over the phone, otherwise it would be an idea if you start looking around for a comfortable tractor tube so you can tow me and at least five jew rods along behind your kayak.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Edited January 29, 2010 by jewgaffer

[SteveWoyWoy]

Cheers Jewgaffer , I have this description from a bushwalking site ...

From West Head Beach, return up the stairs to the track junction and head left on a good track. After about 200m look for a small bunker just below the track to the left. This may have been used in WWII as a lookout post or gun emplacement?

Possibly this is No.3 ? Can you confirm this for me ?

I think this one could be associated with the torpedo testing range , maybe an observation point , evidently there were a lot of posts along the Western shore of Pittwater , and I still reckon I seen one up towards Bobbin Head years back

I'm not going there to fish either so your spots are safe lol

[jewgaffer]

Cheers Jewgaffer , I have this description from a bushwalking site ...

Possibly this is No.3 ? Can you confirm this for me ?

I think this one could be associated with the torpedo testing range , maybe an observation point , evidently there were a lot of posts along the Western shore of Pittwater , and I still reckon I seen one up towards Bobbin Head years back

I'm not going there to fish either so your spots are safe lol

That's ok SteveWoyWoy the pill box, I'm referring to blends in with the rocks, and is hard to notice from the water and is not high up in the cliff face at all. In fact it is situated just above ground level not far up from the waters edge. As far being a pill box used for observation purposes, distance is deceiving as it usually is when looking over water as is the size of objects you see on the shore.. Say you are trying to count the number of footsteps to the shoreline so as to work out the distance in yards where it would be better to anchor for example where sand meets rock or a reef perhaps based on line ups, this pill box appears to be looking straight out parallel to the water almost at say maybe submarine or perhaps small battleship height. One could use the site line from inside this bunker to decide that a couple of snipers could be positioned in there by looking at the unusual curved figure eight with symetrical gaps going by the look of it at the front.

This pill box is what I know as the third pillbox and is most unlike the high pill box to the left of the pill box on the corner of corner of West Head which is slightly overgrown and there is a much better view of it from the side when you are coming towards it from Scotland Island. I saw what appeared to be someone moving around in the shadows of that pill boxe's narrow but perfectly rectangular shaped slit at the front i.e. the high one at West Head. The movements I had a glimpse of were more than likely from one of the hermits that frequent the area.

Anyway, if you give me a call on the number I gave a couple of topics back, I can tell you exactly where this bunker is in Pittwater and this applies to other members of Fishraider. I would be happy to just say where the jew coming into Pittwater are likely to be as the tide tops and then starts to pick up sufficiently for them to run them back out again. They would come into that side rather than go inside of Barrenjoey or head straight for shallow parts in the centre like foreign navy ships would sound for the best way in and then run into an armory of cannons etc on one hand and a well presented bait on a pair of 8/0's on the other

Cheers

jewgaffer

[Gremlin]

@ Gremlin - yep I understand what you are saying about keeping things like this away from the general public , basically I just want to get some good current photos of the West Head bunkers for an article I'm writing , I also contribute to www.ozatwar.com adding to their data base as well as the Peninsula News , with things like this only a vague location is given , I find once people have good pictures to look at they are satisfied and don't bother visiting the harder to get to locations , same applies with Aboriginal carvings and paintings in my area ( Woy Woy )

I have some articles here on my site as well www.woy-woy.com

I will definately consider your offer .. sounds fun , I have an interest in military sites along the coast , have found 2 lost airfields and 1 radar station so far

Basically I'v visited most of the Sydney ones and some in Newcastle , working on the more obscure ones between the cities now so anything like this you have info one would be great

Thanks guys

Mate cheers for that, I'll shoot you off a PM about some stuff then about Juno Point & West Head

Hi Gremlin with respect to your last reply, it seems from his topic that SteveWoyWoy has a genuine interest in finding out where all the wartime bunkers in the Hawkesbury actually are.

As a matter of interest does it matter to you where the third bunker in Pittwater is or not as I not sure if you already know where it is as you haven't really answered the question I asked in my post.

I have known where this particular bunker is for many years now and as it seems it is only noticeable from the water and difficult to distinguish from the surrounding rock and I would be able describe exactly where to find it if anyone wanted to know where it is.

So can you tell me exactly where this bunker is or not? and I'll let you know if it is the same one I showed my friend Geoff aka Geoff on Fishraider only yesterday morning when we fished the first part of our Hawkesbury session in Pittwater. The interesting part of it as far as I'm concerned is that the deep water in front of that particular bumker is a good jewfish spot during the run out tide at night.

Cheers

jewgaffer

Hey Jew, from having spent the better part of 13 years on the internet now and having run numerous websites and forums etc I'm just cautious about people who turn up asking about certain topics, especially considering that a lot of these locations are on private land or are illegal to enter, and being an open forum I E its open for non member to read and access I refrain from openly posting such locations or information

I just wished to verify if his inquiry was legitimate or not

And sorry I missed your question I was running on no sleep, feel free to post up the location mate if you wish, Personally I'm not sure if I have that spot listed or not, a lot of outlaying positions are harder to pin down, and bashing through the bush you can easily miss one location, the only locations i seem to have listed are the Gun Pits and a few pill boxes on west head with instructions to find them that are useful only on the ground rather than aerial maps etc due to the thick covering of trees and bush

[SteveWoyWoy]

Thanks for the replies cheers I sent you both PM's ( I think lol )

I think I've got the location of the Brooklyn battery nailed now as well , spotted a likely structure on the point there on GE

@jewgaffer

there is a much better view of it from the side when you are coming towards it from Scotland Island

Sounds like this one is further up Pittwater ? I remember seeing one tucked into a small bay while in a ferry once going to the basin I think , I'd like to get a pic of this one as well , spose I'll have to take a bottle of port to bribe the current resident lol

[SteveWoyWoy]

Just a quick thanks to Jewgaffer for his help , bloody nice fella if you ever get to speak to him in real life , feel free to add to this topic if you land on it in future

I'm off bush bashing next weekend