trout - pest fish?

[silverbike]

Hi all,

I got an email from the Shooters & Fishers party advising of public forums to contribute to NPWS management of feral animals.

Unfortunately I accidentally deleted the email, but apparently one of the Greenie groups is trying to have Trout a declared noxious fish in NSW.

Anyone else seen this item?

[musty]

Hi all,

I got an email from the Shooters & Fishers party advising of public forums to contribute to NPWS management of feral animals.

Unfortunately I accidentally deleted the email, but apparently one of the Greenie groups is trying to have Trout a declared noxious fish in NSW.

Anyone else seen this item?

Ive just about had a gutfull of these bloody greenie types! So trouts an introduced species, so is every other dog beside the dingo, so are cats, so are lama's, alpacas, horses, cows and chickens... Why dont we just have one massive cull and wipe them ALL out? Wait, the greenies dont like killing things my bad!

Bloody hypocrits!

Btw, I'd like to see this email you refer to. If its true then they REALLY have too much time on their hands.

Musty

[taloyoak]

Now what you need to understand is that the so called “greenies”- people who in my honest opinion, take an active and pro-active approach to educating, enforcing and making the rest of this beautiful country aware of not only destructive man made ideas, but to also the stupid ( but admittedly) unaware first settlers that brought these “pests” in. If European Carp were a beautiful tasting fish, equally hard to catch et el, would we be thinking of them the same way we do of trout?.

Anyone who knows me- realises that I love nature, I appreciate the wild and its inherent beauty. I hate the million Indian Myna’s around my place, but I also appreciate life. I love trout- every aspect of them- their tenacity to adapt to our eco-system, their intelligence, their ability in the “calorie” equation etc, but if I had to make a choice based on whether or not I would want “invasive/introduced” species over native species- I would without a doubt want all the non-native species gone. In Kanangra there are only a few Macquarie Black Perch left- I have been so lucky to see them, catch one for a photo, and I revel in the fact that not many other people see them today. I also have seen the destruction of the Carp in the Cox’s (although on fly they are not as easy to hook, and they fight like Bones), and more so, the feral pigs- they do some serious damage.

I think any avid fisherperson who understands the ecology, the dynamics of the fragile eco-systems in place where trout live and flourish, can appreciate that these places are not infinite. They are so easily destroyed and ruined by the smallest of margins.

I would challenge anyone who says that introduced species should be left alone, because if you look at the dynamics, then you will realise that the introduced species simply change everything in that system.

The fact that cat’s, dog’s, llamas and alpacas are either domesticated for pets in a “mostly” controlled environment, or in the case of Llamas and alpacas, cow’s and chickens- cow’s do not cause the devastation that trout and carp do, nor do chickens, nor llamas and alpacas. Australia- in particular our temperate climate and waterways are “ideal” for species like tilapia, weather loaches etc, and if it wasn’t brought to our attention, most of our pristine waterways would end up devoid of any life other than the introduced species. Sure I love catching trout, but I’d prefer they were not there.

The “Greenies” actually make some of their political interests in matters that many other Aussies dismiss, and instead we are more interested in if we can get a cheap toll on the M4, or a faster rail link to Parramatta. I would hope that most people on this website would be at least open to listening, educating themselves on conservation etc- all you need to do is go look at countries like Japan, Vietnam, India etc- and see how polluted, and devastated their fisheries have become. The Greenies do have some far out ideas, but I believe most are valid, it is us who make un-researched and uneducated comments and assumptions.

[Koalaboi]

Hi,

Nanook makes sense here.

Greenies make a very valuable contribution to land and resource management in Australia. When you think of the devastation caused by cane toads it's clear that when $s are involved, the environment often comes second. Prior to 1788, Australia had pristine forests and waterways teeming with all sorts of good things. In a little over 2 centuries the destruction is plain to see.

The problem that conservationists have is an age old one: to get attention to your ideas you have to go out on a limb. Look at the suffragettes for example. The working conditions we take for granted were won by great struggle and sacrifice.

I'm not saying we have to agree with everything that conservationists want or say but we need their input to balance profiteers who operate under minimal compliance. Look at the Orica leaks for example.

KB

[double pluggers]

As i am not an indigenous Australian and most of us are not maybe we should all be removed from the environment. My problem with the greens is they just love to be extreme. You are right we do need some balance, that is why so many people have had enough of the greens.

[PM79]

I'm all for the removal of introduced species that threaten our native species, but not at the request of the greens.

[jimnicdusty]

i still dont understand why we have a closed season for an introduced fish where we cant fish in the rivers

at all when there breeding, but you can still fish in the rivers when its murry cod closed breeding season.

all trout should be throwen up the bank with carp,red fin and talapia and all other intrduced species. i love the bush and see what feral animals do to it i am also a shooter that takes out every feral that i can

and trout are no differant.

so if i am trout fishing i allways take my bag limit and dump them straight in the bin or if somone feels like eating them i will keep them a feed . other than that there is no rule saying that you cant throw them up the bank you just cant have a specific number of them in your position at any one time. so if you dont like trout as much as me thats the legal way to get rid of a feral fish that is goverend by rules.

i would like to point out that i am talking about fishing in rivers and dams that are fed by rivers. i dont realy care what they do with non river fed dams like TCD the trout cant escape so they are not a thret to native animals.

now i am sure my post will get up a few peoples nose but this is my opinion on trout.

jim

jim

[Mr Squidy]

Now what you need to understand is that the so called “greenies”- people who in my honest opinion, take an active and pro-active approach to educating, enforcing and making the rest of this beautiful country aware of not only destructive man made ideas, but to also the stupid ( but admittedly) unaware first settlers that brought these “pests” in. If European Carp were a beautiful tasting fish, equally hard to catch et el, would we be thinking of them the same way we do of trout?.

Anyone who knows me- realises that I love nature, I appreciate the wild and its inherent beauty. I hate the million Indian Myna’s around my place, but I also appreciate life. I love trout- every aspect of them- their tenacity to adapt to our eco-system, their intelligence, their ability in the “calorie” equation etc, but if I had to make a choice based on whether or not I would want “invasive/introduced” species over native species- I would without a doubt want all the non-native species gone. In Kanangra there are only a few Macquarie Black Perch left- I have been so lucky to see them, catch one for a photo, and I revel in the fact that not many other people see them today. I also have seen the destruction of the Carp in the Cox’s (although on fly they are not as easy to hook, and they fight like Bones), and more so, the feral pigs- they do some serious damage.

I think any avid fisherperson who understands the ecology, the dynamics of the fragile eco-systems in place where trout live and flourish, can appreciate that these places are not infinite. They are so easily destroyed and ruined by the smallest of margins.

I would challenge anyone who says that introduced species should be left alone, because if you look at the dynamics, then you will realise that the introduced species simply change everything in that system.

The fact that cat’s, dog’s, llamas and alpacas are either domesticated for pets in a “mostly” controlled environment, or in the case of Llamas and alpacas, cow’s and chickens- cow’s do not cause the devastation that trout and carp do, nor do chickens, nor llamas and alpacas. Australia- in particular our temperate climate and waterways are “ideal” for species like tilapia, weather loaches etc, and if it wasn’t brought to our attention, most of our pristine waterways would end up devoid of any life other than the introduced species. Sure I love catching trout, but I’d prefer they were not there.

The “Greenies” actually make some of their political interests in matters that many other Aussies dismiss, and instead we are more interested in if we can get a cheap toll on the M4, or a faster rail link to Parramatta. I would hope that most people on this website would be at least open to listening, educating themselves on conservation etc- all you need to do is go look at countries like Japan, Vietnam, India etc- and see how polluted, and devastated their fisheries have become. The Greenies do have some far out ideas, but I believe most are valid, it is us who make un-researched and uneducated comments and assumptions.

Totally agree with everything you've said Nanook. The only thing i find disapointing about the Greens is their total failure to recognise that in recreational fisho's they have potential allies to be worked with rather than opponets to be fought against. You only have to look at the greens NSW estury management policy page Link and it states:

"2.4 The recognition and involvement of community groups (e.g. Coastcare, Landcare and school monitoring programs) in estuary management and protection;"

How is it that recreational fishing groups aren't recognised here as groups to be consulted? Especially when it goes on to list as policy that "7. The imposition, over time, of more stringent restrictions on recreational fishing, that are realistic in order to protect fish hatcheries." Rec fisho's are some of the biggest users of Esturies and have the most to gain by their sensible management so surely this sort of thing can be managed in consultation rather than in oposition. You only need to read the reactions on fish raider to topics like increasing size limits and the recent increase in commercial catches of Australian Salomn to see both parties have a lot to gain working together.

Anyway, like yourself i agree with much of the work they do, I just look forward to a time where the Greens stop seeing us the enemy.

Rich

[Matt]

Whilst I agree with some of the thoughts here about Trout in some of our rivers, how does the thinking of removing them from man-made waterways like most of our lakes fit in with this thinking? Those lakes are in their entirety a whole "un-natural" ecology?

When considering the desire to remove Trout in particularly you have to also take into account the impact it would have on economy, Tasmania in particular has a rather larger slice of its Tourism aimed at Trout. Just aiming to remove all non-native species is a little short sited in my opinion. (and the Greens have shown endlessly in the past that local economy means very little to them).

I think a balance has to be achieved now and it would be appear to we are ever so slowly heading that way. Nanook, you mentioned Macquarie Perch. The stocking of these in the Murrumbidgee from Cooma down has been a success and they are now showing up quite a lot. The same can be said of Trout Cod to a lesser extent.

As to the spawning season, now that it is a head scratcher. Never understood this and its high time it went out the window.

Matt

PS. Trout are not Feral, nor are Carp. Pigs, Horses etc are Feral as they were domesticated animals that reverted to wild. Trout were purposely released, never domesticated and were not escapees.

[musty]

Make sure you understand the difference between a "Greenie" and a "Conservationist".

Many fisherman, hunters, farmers, etc are conservationists who care about the land they work or play on and do whats best for it and the life on it.

Greenies on the other hand only see things from there narrow minded visions and thus- The battles go on..

The fact that an animal is introduced does not make it a pest. Carp are a pest yes, trout on the other hand will only ever survive in particular areas and climates, in clean cool waters of which Australia has a VERY limited amount of, so trout- even if they flourished could never become a pest in the way carp has. You will never see fisherman being annoyed at the fact they they cant get their bait or lure past a big trout.

To be honest I'm baffled as to why this topic was even brought up, especially by one of the most trout loving/fly fishing members of all.

Merry Christmas to all

Im going for a trout fish! (catch and release)

Musty

Edited December 24, 2011 by musty

[luderick -angler]

If you really want to get an insight int owhat people thoughts are on introduced fish I suggest you take a look at New Zealand and the debate there between what we label Greenies, The Dairy Farmers and The Recreational Fisher. Have a look at this and see what sort of rsdicl mentality exists over the ditch http://fedfarm.org.nz/n3053.html.

Further you have to realise a lot of so called pests were introduced as part of acclimatisation societies here and in NZ there was a desire to have these comforts of home this being the 1800's did one know any better a different attitude and age. Other valid points to note are trout exist in a handful of waterways in NSW due to their biology and most waterways are unsuitable for trout in NSW, would thi argument exist if the waters of the equator cooled sufficiently to allow trout to migrste natrually this is the only barrier to trouts migration from the Northern Hemisphere to the southern as the waters are too warm for them too survive another point in many of our rivers over summer.

Killing trout or any other fish wantonly is not the answer as one reply admits too support it or not a lot of people work to sustain trout fisheries for the good of local econimies and tourism and enjoyment of anglers doing what this person does undoes a lot of work if you don't like trout (and its beyond me!) then join the movement and do it through debate and voice your views join a group that will get it legislated to stop stocking they the trout will die out eventually (examples being the Warragamba River below the dam, Manly Dam yes it had rainbows in the 60's and 70's, the Kangaroo River too name 3 waterways) Actually some rivers would be virtully fishless except for trout oh and trout do like to prey on redfin and carp and theres natives that love trout finglings bass a claasic example look at Lyell for the evidence more bass are caught than trout and its stocked with both!

Lastly I think we need to be careful using the word greenie as it is a very blanket term there are varying degrees of greenie remember right up to those that are out and out enviromental activists wit hvery leftist views.

I love trout and as for the closed season take the NZ approach have a season and have a winter limit on the river ie above such a point the dstram is closed below it go nuts all year round that should dent the trout population a little and make it fun for all remeber I say all this having lived in NZ and Australia so have seen debate on this in all its forms

Cheers

Royce

[joel.pringle]

There's a lot of talk on this site about the Greens not understanding recreational fishing (for the record, as a member of the Greens and new to fishing I agree), but I wonder if anyone from here has tried engaging with the Greens and helping build that understanding?

Hrgh

[johnv]

just get rid of all the greenies, problem should be solved then

Edited February 15, 2012 by johnv

[bombora]

There's a lot of talk on this site about the Greens not understanding recreational fishing (for the record, as a member of the Greens and new to fishing I agree), but I wonder if anyone from here has tried engaging with the Greens and helping build that understanding?

Hrgh

Yep I have, several times and quite an enlightening experience it has been. Both federal and state. To put it bluntly, rec fishing, and its economic contibution and sustainability when managed correctly, is simply not a consideration in their policies.

Just one Federal example: asked one of Bob Brown's media handlers for a reaction to the Greens being loathed by many, if not most fishers, despite having many common causes, and the reaction: "Really. We don't know anything about that. Couldn't possibly be true. Fishermen love us.'' You are not on their radar, except as a threat to the environment. You kill a wild animal, or at least "torturing" one.

Don't get me started on the outright BS being spruiked by NSW Greens on marine conservation issues. Give em a chance and they will still use "cuddly" fish like the blue groper to demand more anti-fishing restrictions, knowing full well _ they've been told enough times - that blue groper are thriving, and thriving through sensible fishing restrictions rather than location lock-outs.

Add the anti fishing bigotry of Pew Australia, and their access to millions and millions of bucks in the US, and rec fishing is seriously being defamed and few (any?) effective voices are in reply.