rockfisherman Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi, that is not what we mean, the transom height is from the keel to the top of the transom-not the width of the area where the outboard goes. For years the industry STD has been 15 or 20 inches. As I said take a photo standing back from the boat showing the complet outboard and transom. Cheers, Huey. Huey 20 inches from the keel to the bottom of the transom 99% sure you have the sail 15hp 2stroke with the 20inch shaft that he must of had in stock and he didnt have any 15inch in stock at the time of your purchase so he fitted the 20inch instead,just my opinion,also is your boat a baystar 4.metre if so your transom height would be 500mm yes it's a baystar 4.0 and yes it's about 500mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunc333 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 well i think the shorter shaft would be round about right but wait for what huey thinks as he is alot better placed to answer that than i am ,i noticed on sail website that they offer 9.9hps 15hps and 30hps all fitted to a 4m boat which i beleive would in some way bring to lite your problem as like fitting a 40hp to a 18foot boat if you know what i mean ,I THINK THEY GIVE TO many options on a 4m tinny just to sell them to fit the budget that someone has and to make the sale,again just my opinion ,cheers dunc333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 well i think the shorter shaft would be round about right but wait for what huey thinks as he is alot better placed to answer that than i am ,i noticed on sail website that they offer 9.9hps 15hps and 30hps all fitted to a 4m boat which i beleive would in some way bring to lite your problem as like fitting a 40hp to a 18foot boat if you know what i mean ,I THINK THEY GIVE TO many options on a 4m tinny just to sell them to fit the budget that someone has and to make the sale,again just my opinion ,cheers dunc333 thanks for your input everyone, I just want to solve this issue and be done with it. Fishingphase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boat Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 thanks for your input everyone, I just want to solve this issue and be done with it. Fishingphase Hi, plan a trip on the Hawkesbury and swing by with it because over the internet and via photos it is pretty hard to fix a problem, but if you are sure your transom is 20 inches, then you have a L/S hull so the engine should also be a long-shaft-is that what they sold you? Cheers, Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes it was sold to me as a long shaft, if the transom is 20 inches, then the only thing isn't right in this equation is the dimensions of the motor. Hawksbury is abit out of the way Huey, and I work 6 days a week, I appreciate your offer for assistance any which way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes it was sold to me as a long shaft, if the transom is 20 inches, then the only thing isn't right in this equation is the dimensions of the motor. Hawksbury is abit out of the way Huey, and I work 6 days a week, I appreciate your offer for assistance any which way. $300 ish a aluminium fabricator will put apiece in that will give you the height you need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 $300 ish a aluminium fabricator will put apiece in that will give you the height you need exactly what I was thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian J Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I have read this thread twice now, the thing I don't under stand is why has it taken you one whole year to bring this up? Don't you think that if you had a problem that you should of bought the matter up with the seller after the first or second outing? After a year of boating I don't think you are going to have a leg to stand on, and if you do it will be on a prorata rate, as far as the seller was concerned, you where satisfied in you purchase. Lets face it, you have gone with the cheapest option and that's what you get, you can't expect to have the most reliable motor or best performing/ handling package that's the chance you take, sometime its a winner and other days you just got to deal with it . I am sure that you will be jumping up and down about what I am saying and even it will be deleted but in the end of the day you get what you pay for. Huey must be a great bloke because he would have to deal with this all the time, trying to convince people that they should spend that little bit extra. For him to go out of his way to try to sort out somebody's else problems is out standing. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I have read this thread twice now, the thing I don't under stand is why has it taken you one whole year to bring this up? Don't you think that if you had a problem that you should of bought the matter up with the seller after the first or second outing? After a year of boating I don't think you are going to have a leg to stand on, and if you do it will be on a prorata rate, as far as the seller was concerned, you where satisfied in you purchase. Lets face it, you have gone with the cheapest option and that's what you get, you can't expect to have the most reliable motor or best performing/ handling package that's the chance you take, sometime its a winner and other days you just got to deal with it . I am sure that you will be jumping up and down about what I am saying and even it will be deleted but in the end of the day you get what you pay for. Huey must be a great bloke because he would have to deal with this all the time, trying to convince people that they should spend that little bit extra. For him to go out of his way to try to sort out somebody's else problems is out standing. Just saying hi mate It's taken a year because in the that period of time the motors only done about 4.5hrs, which essentially means its still being run in, and as this is the case, the instructions state not to take it past 75% max power. When I go fishing in the bay or the harbour I'm pretty much where I want to be in 10-15 minutes, then that period of time again if I wish to move to another spot. Secondly I would have a leg to stand on not just because of the reason just stated in the first paragraph, but because he's failed to follow manufacturer specifications of 0-25mm for the variance in height between the cavitation plate and the keel. I went in there as an inexperienced boatie, all I knew was I didn't mind renting a tinny now and again with my mates, so I wanted one. He has a responsibility as a retailer to have all this right before a purchase, and it Dosnt matter if it's a week later a month later or a year later, he's still responsible, not to mention its still under warranty. The reason i went for the cheaper option is because the difference in price was consiserable in comparison, and when your busting your ass to pay a mortage, its difference between getting a boat snd not getting a boat. Also hats off to Huey for all his great advice and direction on this site, he strikes me as a man who genuinely loves his job and has a passion for great service. Fishing phase. Edited March 9, 2012 by fishingphase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 4.5 hours to run in ? more like 45mins or so and with a cheap two stroke i wouldnt even bother give it 10-20 mins to bed the rings in and off you go id say you have no come back on the dealer, pay the 300 and get on with enjoying the boat there are no australian standards in regards to shaft length but their is a general acceptance of 15 20 and 25 inch transoms nearly every boat ive bought has needed some sort of tinkering either with trailers, outboard height, prop choice and so on i spent 9k on a new trailer but then had to spend 1k more on a different cradle setup on the rear to suit my particular hull its no ones fault as the trailer manufacturer didnt make the boat and the boat maker didnt make the trailer the issue is he will claim the boat manufacturer supplied a 20inch transom and the outboard supplied is a 20 inch outboard you have left it 12 months it could be how you use the boat, overly large person or persons sitting on the rear bench too much gear in the boat causing it to sit bum heavy if he doesnt want to play ball just bite the bullet and enjoy your boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testlab Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi raiders About a year ago I purchased a brand new 4m tinny, trailer and a 15hp outboard. For while now I've been wondering why it becomes uncontrollable once it picks up speed. Now although I read the manual, I somehow missed the part where it states the cavitation plate must be between 0-25mm below the lowest point of the hull. This is what I've got More than 60mm, is this what it is or am I incorrect? The out board can't be taken up any further. What are my rights in this situation ? This guy has gone and sold me something that Dosnt comply with manufacturers specifications. I just want to get my facts straight before I confront this guy. Let's just step back to the original problem, which is difficult to control at speed. I read the thread but apart from some vague agreement about torque effects you didn't describe what difficulty you are having. Does it: 1. Suddenly and without warning start bucking or some other instability come in when a certain speed is reached? 2. Gradually become hard to steer as speed increases but at low speed is fine? 3. Try to pull the tiller out of your hand or become extremely hard to hold straight as speed increases? 4. Feel like the nose of the boat is digging in and the rear suddenly tries to violently swerve to the side? The way the boat is loaded, the way the engine is trimmed and how it is driven will all have an effect. Looking at your photos I think it needs at least one or possibly two notches of trim as a start. Do you know what is meant by adjusting the trim? Not being unkind, just sticking to the basics. That motor shaft looks longer than 500mm... Or is it just me? What is the distance from the transom bracket (where it hook over the transom) to the cavitation/ventilation plate. The dealer should help you but forget making claims about distance between hull and cav plate... These sorts of things are trial and error and go beyond the simple mating of motor and hull. It takes time and sea trialling to set the boat up properly and not something a dealer is likely to do at the bottom end of the market. Apart from which, the dealer could set it perfect for two normal people but this wouldn't match one person or a family in it. Everything is a compromise until you fine tune it to your requirements. Since you've had it a year the best outcome you i think you could get from dept of fair trading would an order for the dealer to provide you with assistance but I doubt you'd get more than that. Unless designed to work together from the start boats and motors will seldom be perfect across the whole speed range... That's why power trim was invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 With the engine trimmed in it could also bow steer at speed I've seen some of these cheaper hulls and they ain't exactly built to a quality standard so could be out of square Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Let's just step back to the original problem, which is difficult to control at speed. I read the thread but apart from some vague agreement about torque effects you didn't describe what difficulty you are having. Does it: 1. Suddenly and without warning start bucking or some other instability come in when a certain speed is reached? 2. Gradually become hard to steer as speed increases but at low speed is fine? 3. Try to pull the tiller out of your hand or become extremely hard to hold straight as speed increases? 4. Feel like the nose of the boat is digging in and the rear suddenly tries to violently swerve to the side? The way the boat is loaded, the way the engine is trimmed and how it is driven will all have an effect. Looking at your photos I think it needs at least one or possibly two notches of trim as a start. Do you know what is meant by adjusting the trim? Not being unkind, just sticking to the basics. That motor shaft looks longer than 500mm... Or is it just me? What is the distance from the transom bracket (where it hook over the transom) to the cavitation/ventilation plate. The dealer should help you but forget making claims about distance between hull and cav plate... These sorts of things are trial and error and go beyond the simple mating of motor and hull. It takes time and sea trialling to set the boat up properly and not something a dealer is likely to do at the bottom end of the market. Apart from which, the dealer could set it perfect for two normal people but this wouldn't match one person or a family in it. Everything is a compromise until you fine tune it to your requirements. Since you've had it a year the best outcome you i think you could get from dept of fair trading would an order for the dealer to provide you with assistance but I doubt you'd get more than that. Unless designed to work together from the start boats and motors will seldom be perfect across the whole speed range... That's why power trim was invented. test lab, problems 1 and 4 Juggs You hit the nail on the head, this afternoon I pulled the outboard off, got a measuring tape, builders level and a plum bob and worked out that when the outboard was sitting level on the transom, the shaft was about 25mm out in relation to the hull, also I remounted it about 20mm higher where the clamps just grab on and used 2 high tensile bolts thru the mounting holes, I also jiggled it around so the cav plate/propellor are plumb with the keel, the top is a little out but that Dosnt matter. Going to test it out tomorrow morning, fingers crissed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunc333 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 good luck fishphase hope it works 4 you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 It's handling a little better, but still having symptoms as previously mentioned by test lab... Will a chang in prop size do anything, maybe a smaller prop, atm it's got a 9 and 1/4 inch on. Fishingphase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Did you try trimming the motor out a bit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I did, there is 4 adjustments, when I moved it out it was harder to get on the plane so I moved it back in. Oh well, we live with the choices we make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Knot Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I did, there is 4 adjustments, when I moved it out it was harder to get on the plane so I moved it back in. Oh well, we live with the choices we make. When you did have it trimmed out did you get it on the plane and did it improve you handling problem at speed or did you stop testing because of difficulties getting it up on the plane. Cheers Blood Knot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) When you did have it trimmed out did you get it on the plane and did it improve you handling problem at speed or did you stop testing because of difficulties getting it up on the plane. Cheers Blood Knot 2 x 100kg blokes plus gear in a 4m tinny on calm water and it couldnt get on the plane, it was just dragging water, so I put it back to where it was. Edited March 11, 2012 by fishingphase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 2 x 100kg blokes plus gear in a 4m tinny on calm water and it couldnt get on the plane, it was just dragging water, so I put it back to where it was. if you have 100kg up the front of the boat it could be bow steering ie the nose is too far in the water and it will veer off to one side or the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 if you have 100kg up the front of the boat it could be bow steering ie the nose is too far in the water and it will veer off to one side or the other Juggs that's exactly what it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie007 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 measure from the top of your transom (where the motor sits) down to the bottom of the transom (where your drain plug is) if its 15 inches u have a short shaft boat with a 20 inch long shaft motor make these two measurements and tell us what u have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfisherman Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 measure from the top of your transom (where the motor sits) down to the bottom of the transom (where your drain plug is) if its 15 inches u have a short shaft boat with a 20 inch long shaft motor make these two measurements and tell us what u have hi Gazza It's 20 inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie007 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 hi Gazza It's 20 inches those two pictures measure two different parts one measures the motor the other measures the transom i take it u only measured your motor and its 20"? your transom looks 15" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Juggs that's exactly what it does any boat ive owned even my current 5m boat will do if i trim the nose down at speed, mine likes to turn hard to the right Your issue is a probably mixture of things then not enough hp cav plate too low too much weight in the bow go for a run without your chunky mate the bow will sit higher and not bow steer if that sorts things then you have to distribute the weight more evenly i just reread your first post 15hp on a 4m boat with 350kg in it its never going to perform (2 x100kg people- 45kg in outboard 20kg in fuel and then 30-50 in gear and anchors etc) 25-30 minimum Edited March 12, 2012 by Juggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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