the producer Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi All Wed. 21st March Great day on the harbour. Top weather, easy to find squid & kingfish getting a little easier to find. After hitting a few spots and getting a few undersized fish we decided to anchor and set some lines. Got into nice kings ...... had a big school of kings around the meter mark come past us and pick up every bait in the water. managed to get a couple on board all over 90cm But thanks to a design fault in the baitrunner "d " series by shimano we had 2 near new reels pack it in mid fight. (4000D) There is a problem with the way the handles pull the main gear away from the pinion gear. causing slipping, gear damage, locked gears and handles just snapping off. We lost 3 big fish due to reel failure but managed to hand line one up on 80lb whiplash. ( still have all 9 fingers too ). And lost a few more from inexperienced hands and sheer size of fish v's gear. Any way I will be taking these issues to shimano and will let everyone know the outcome. I think the original and " B " series baitrunners are still far better. happy fishin andrew / parkesy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasksta Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 That's a shame mate but thanks a mill for the feedback. I am or was in the process of buying a d baitrunner for this very purpose. Can you still buy the b series? Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen801 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Being a fan of shimano I am sorry to hear that but not surprised. Rather be packing a sargossa, twin power or small Stella like a 10k for kings that size. Sounds like a goog day on the water. I should have gone out today as instead sat around getting toey. Great tide and moon phase for big fish ATM. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apple Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hey Andrew I was out there today too. Got everything undersize at sow and pigs before moving just off south head in 25m water. Anyway I hooked onto something amazing, but it spat the hook about a metre under he surface. Awesome thumping fight, about 5 min or so, lots of line stripping runs. I had a prawn on the hook. My question to you, since you caught some kings today, do you think there is any chance a kingy would take a prawn, off the bottom? I just want a clue about what the monster was likely to be. I'm not familiar with how kings fight because so far I've been too lazy to go after them... Live baits, down riggers etc. I should stop sitting on my hands if today's fight is any indication! Thanks- Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formosan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi All Wed. 21st March Great day on the harbour. Top weather, easy to find squid & kingfish getting a little easier to find. After hitting a few spots and getting a few undersized fish we decided to anchor and set some lines. Got into nice kings ...... had a big school of kings around the meter mark come past us and pick up every bait in the water. managed to get a couple on board all over 90cm But thanks to a design fault in the baitrunner "d " series by shimano we had 2 near new reels pack it in mid fight. (4000D) There is a problem with the way the handles pull the main gear away from the pinion gear. causing slipping, gear damage, locked gears and handles just snapping off. We lost 3 big fish due to reel failure but managed to hand line one up on 80lb whiplash. ( still have all 9 fingers too ). And lost a few more from inexperienced hands and sheer size of fish v's gear. Any way I will be taking these issues to shimano and will let everyone know the outcome. I think the original and " B " series baitrunners are still far better. happy fishin andrew / parkesy Good report sorry to hear about your baitrunners. I got a D as well but sitting in the garage. I use Daiwa Saltist 5000 to tangle with the metre kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggs Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 their current malaysian tld 15s and 25s are no better either had one sieze new out of box on its first fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORRRN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Unlucky with the reels mate, look forward to hearing the outcome of this as i have a 4000D 6000D (brain fart) that's only a few months old now, biggest its done is a 68cm jewie and no problems so far. Edit: My brain failed me, mines a 6 not a 4, still interested to see what the outcome is though as its still a D series. Edited March 21, 2012 by renegade40d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMick Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 They sound like big kings. Caught Kings on my Saragosa 8000 with no trouble, got an 18000 now too that need christening. You sound like you know what you're doing, but you know that shimano is gonna accuse you of using the reels like a winch. Good luck. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafinx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ive got a 8000D and the only prob I have with it is that it is abit noisey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako2000 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Am I reading right that you are fishing 80lb on a 4000d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You shouldnt be using a baitrunner for big kings... compare the max drag on the baitrunner to a saragosa. Plus how are you bringing the fish in? Sounds like your not using the power of the rod and too much pressure on the reel. Lift the rod then on the slack whind in line... i wouldnt be trying to whind whilst the fish is talking line or on heavy load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quintrex480 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi mate, shame about losing those big kings, but I'd be definitely be using heavier gear than the baitrunner 4000's which have a max drag of 7kg. I think you did pretty well in bringing 90cm ones on it anyway. I, along with mates use Daiwa gear and we've been able to pull up hoodies using the Saltist reels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojay Samson Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 bad luck on the kings, i have a 8000D paired to a penn slammer 701 GBm 10-15kg rod and used it on charters in narooma recently... easily handled the kings on offer out there. boated 5 kings with it in the 76cm & above range. the only gripe i had with it on the day was when i striked a fish, the spool clicker thingy spring popped off the mount and it didnt make that cool 'zzzzzz' noise, jsut the noise of line being taken and the roller etc going off (due to having drag too loose i suspect when i striked). popped the clicker back in place and its doing fine again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadavu Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 we use the Stella and stella artos no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangonui Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You shouldnt be running more than 6kg on that reel,thats all there rated to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 G'day mate heard lots of these problems. I only use Stella's and have never had a problem. Yes they ate more expensive though will last longer and have less problems if looked after well. Tight lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregL Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Am I reading right that you are fishing 80lb on a 4000d? I think your asking a little to much for a reel that had snapper in mind..... Locked drags, winding against drag is just asking for gear failure. That's the only way your going to snap a handle off is by winding against a locked up drag.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the producer Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hi again I have read all your thoughts...... thanks guys. I should just mention that we were actually teaching people how to fish and as some of you mentioned the reels may have been accidently used as winches a little. Was still a great day but disappointing the reels could not have risen to the job and held together. Also as some of you mentioned technique is a key part of the problem and when teaching people you really have to coach them through the entire fight the first few times. The whiplash line loaded on the 4000 was in fact 65lb not 80 lb as I said originally............. I was not expecting to put novice fisherman on to 95cm kingfish on their first ever fishing trip...... but that can happen when you are targeting kings. Obviously I have dozens of very capable reels for handling these fish but I try and give people new to fishing a reel that is easy to use and suited to the type of fish we are targeting ( which in our minds was 65 - 80cm kings. ) This is how the reel damage occurs. When pressure is applied to turn the handle and the rotor does not spin because of pressure from a large fish the main gear is pulled away from the pinion gear. This is because the handle winds in to the main gear to tighten itself. Then gears become damaged and this leads to noise and intermittent jamming which then can lead to stripped gears or a snapped handle. The problem is with the way the gear sits in the body of the reel and may be different for the larger models. As some of you mentioned there are allot of great reels out there but having the right one in your hand when the right fish are there is the Key. Anyway.....tight lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humesy Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Read somewhere else that the manufacture of the B series of baitrunners is being finished and the stock that remains is all there will be. Grab one now if you are a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SZ1 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Unlucky on the reels and lost fish, any gear failure sucks. Although 65lb braid in my opinion is asking too much from such a small reel. 65lb braid is more suited for reel of 8000 size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little marlin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I would put 65lb on a Daiwa Saltiga 6500 Expedition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tf211 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Alan Tani (www.alantani.com) is a personal friend of mine, and is regarded as THE reel guru in Northern California. Although he (and I) usually work with overhead reels, he is of the opinion that there are no reels that can really be fished straight out of the box. I have him pull all mine apart before I use them, and there is no doubt that they are a whole lot better when I get them back from him. Also, as an aside, I'm amazed at how much spinning reels are used on gamefish in Australia. I fish a lot in Northern California (King Salmon and Albacore Tuna) and in Mexico (Big Yellowfin, Mahi Mahi, marlin) and no-one I know uses spinning reels. If you are casting, the spinning reel certainly gets the bait/lure out there, but for all other types of fishing, such as trolling, live baiting, bottom fishing, the conventional overhead is, in my opinion, much, much better to use, and better suited to the job. Just my 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formosan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Alan Tani (www.alantani.com) is a personal friend of mine, and is regarded as THE reel guru in Northern California. Although he (and I) usually work with overhead reels, he is of the opinion that there are no reels that can really be fished straight out of the box. I have him pull all mine apart before I use them, and there is no doubt that they are a whole lot better when I get them back from him. Also, as an aside, I'm amazed at how much spinning reels are used on gamefish in Australia. I fish a lot in Northern California (King Salmon and Albacore Tuna) and in Mexico (Big Yellowfin, Mahi Mahi, marlin) and no-one I know uses spinning reels. If you are casting, the spinning reel certainly gets the bait/lure out there, but for all other types of fishing, such as trolling, live baiting, bottom fishing, the conventional overhead is, in my opinion, much, much better to use, and better suited to the job. Just my 2 cents worth. Why is that the case ? Can you offer some good reasons why Americans embrace overheads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bump73 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Why is that the case ? Can you offer some good reasons why Americans embrace overheads? I'd say it has a lot to do with the fact that there is generally less that can go wrong with them. The reels have less moving parts, no pinion gear for instance, they don't have issues with bail arms getting bent in under load to the point that they drag on the spool, seen this many a time with reels loaded up or overloaded as the case may be, and overheads are generally speaking stronger reels better suited to that type of fishing. Personally I only ever use overheads for livies or spinning off rocks and chucking plastics in harbour for kingies, and i'm still using a Ambassadeur i bought 17 years ago ( upgraded all bearings and drag system). Never let me down and i'd be lucky to get 4 years out of any spin reel, mainly due to my dodgy maintenance schedule. Let's face it spin reels are just for those who can't cast overheads :074: Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzpollen Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 This is how the reel damage occurs. When pressure is applied to turn the handle and the rotor does not spin because of pressure from a large fish the main gear is pulled away from the pinion gear. This is because the handle winds in to the main gear to tighten itself. Then gears become damaged and this leads to noise and intermittent jamming which then can lead to stripped gears or a snapped handle. The problem is with the way the gear sits in the body of the reel and may be different for the larger models. Funny you should say that. I bought a 8000d not too long ago brand new and have noticed there is a quite a bit of play in the handle. Not only is there slight play between the teeth of the main and pinion gears, the axis of the main gear seems to move around which shouldn't be the case. If I take the handle off, I can actually wiggle the main gear and it actually looks like the ball bearing supporting the main gear moves inside the side covers recess. It seems like the ball bearings outside diameter is too small for the recess. It really should be snug and fit. Did I make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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