Importing a new outboard from the US

[Croydon]

Hi folks,

I'm thinking about repowering the 560C barcrusher with a new outboard, either a 115hp Yamaha or 140hp Suzuki 4 stroke. However the price locally is quite steep considering what they cost in the US. Has anyone looked at or had experience with importing a new outboard from overseas. I've made contact with the site sponsor Wye River Marine, who were very helpful but unable to assist.

Just toying with the idea at the moment as I don't know if the potential saving is worth the risk/effort as there is no warranty for grey imports in Australia.

So, does anyone out there have any info or experience to offer. Thanks.........

Dave

[Day's Fishin]

A lot of products imported from over seas have different components even if there the same brand and may cause you some problems if you need parts. I was a service manager in the office equipment industry for a number of years and we ran into quite a lot of import machines that people brought in. Mostly we wouldn't touch them as the spec's were different to the ones specific to Australia even though they were the same brand and came out of the same factory. The car industry is the same, import cars even though they are cheaper and in most cases have more features

do not operate in Australian conditions. ( Toyota Surf, Range Rovers etc ) Shop around there are some good buys and at least you will have some back up if anything goes wrong. Talk to Huey at Huett Marine they have different brands and back what they sell.

Regards Jeff

[Croydon]

Thanks Jeff, all good and relevant points. It's just an idea at this stage, but much appreciated.

Dave

[Catchin Jack]

Yeh i'd call Craig from Huett Marine and see if he can do you a good deal.

[dunc333]

what i beleive the +'s are it may work out cheaper in the long run if everything went to plan and the motor out lives its warranty period with no hicups my -"s are you will not have warranty here in oz ,in the usa outboards are not sold with forward controls gauges and prop so you will have to purchase them your self later on and I dont know if a dealer (tech) would like working on your motor if something went wrong early in its life cheers dunc 333

[Croydon]

Thanks Dunc, all things I have kept in mind. I've been in touch with Huey and he has given me some very sound advice. The help is much appreciated.

Dave

[BWV]

Mate just by one from the states. It's so much cheaper around 50%. You still get 12 months warranty.

I look at like would you pay twice as much a few extra yrs warranty? I wouldn't. If the motor is that bad you'd just by another.

As far as I am concerned the Australian boating market has been getting ripped off for far to long by the engine and boat manufactures and now with the globalisation of the industry from the Internet the ball is in the consumers court to choose what we want to do instead of being rail roaded into over priced equipment.

[a boat]

Hi, I bet you will not get any warranty from any of the outboard companies here in Oz if you ship one in yourself and as mentioned by another poster the engines in the States come as just that, an engine, no hardware, prop-nothing, so that will need to be factored in. I agree with what you say about our market here and there are MANY reasons why we pay more for everything here from the size of our market to the government but that is for another day. I havea copy of the dealer buy price for the engines we choose to stock and sell in $US that I picked up at the factory a few years ago and doing the price comparisons-apples to apples the price difference is nothing like 50% cheaper and that was when the dollar was alot stronger than it is today. Also you get zero warranty vs 5 years, so with all modern clean tech engines and what they need to get to this level there are more things to go wrong and you need to know what you are doing if a problem arises with any brand so gone are the good old days of carby engines where it was pretty easy to work on them yourselves.

Just my 2 cents and it would be interesing to do the excerise now of say what a large clean tech engine will cost with ALL the gear and freight costs (if you can actually buy a new one from the US) compared to what you can by locally. Dave might have the time to do this for us and let us know what he finds.

Cheers,

Huey.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[Croydon]

Hi guys,

From the enquiries I've made with a number of company's in the US, they are in the main, not willing to ship an outboard out of the US to another county. It seems they get a bit of grief from their suppliers if they assis with grey imports. As for warranty, there does not appear to be any for grey imports in Aus, unless you return them to the country you purchased them from. I am yet to obtain full details on what is supplied with the outboard ie.prop, gauges, forward control etc, nor have I been given a costing. When I do I will let you know.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

Dave

[deek]

I reckon the 5 year warranty is worth paying the extra anyway. Peace of mind.

[BWV]

Everyone one has to make there own choice on the matter. I choose to buy from the states both boats and outboards and it worked out very well for me and I would definitely do it again.

Huey I feel for you guys with this because the pricing isn't set by you it's from the manufactures representitives in australia and what they think our market will pay and it is causing people to look elsewhere for a more affordable deal. I have had next too no problems at all other than a sensor or two which i again bought from the states at far reduced price than in aus. I had to wait 7-10 days for it but i could still use the boat so it didn't bother me.

What's with the "grey" import stigma guys? What "grey" about them? They are exactly the same as what we get in aus the only difference is who imports them.

I just hope that the Australian market is bought back into line with the rest of the world boating market, like what they are trying to do with electronics and clothing at the moment. Just so it becomes more affordable for everyone to enjoy.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Whaler 255

[Croydon]

Hi Whaler,

Thanks for the input much appreciated. I agree, just because it's a grey import doesn't mean it's any different to what we get here. I've purchased boating parts and electronics from o/s and have had very positive experiences and saved a heap of dough. If you have any contacts I could get in touch with or tips as to where to shop for an outboard it would be much appreciated. Feel free to PM me if you wish. Thanks again.......

Dave

[dunc333]

hi guys lets see the costings verse the risk factor this will be very interesting.me too have nothing but phrase what huey and his team does for our local boating community and other respected dealers as well ,i guess craig makes no more for a rerig than his usa counterparts so if you support aus jobs and the big manufactures start to listen lets please start with brp merc yam suzuki tohatsu bosses in aus and lets hope the little guys (the front men) can survive because without them and other small business aus is going to go to the dogs ,cheers dunc333.

Edited February 18, 2013 by dunc333

[Testlab]

When we bought our Searay I had quite a few talks with dealers in the southern states (USA) as I was interested in importing a 150HP new engine for another boat. I was going to ship it inside the Searay cockpit so not to have to pay any extra shipping.

Nobody was interested in selling me an outboard and the dealer management process was explained to me so I would stop wanting new and buy a used engine instead.

The dealers are tightly managed with respect to their new engines in inventory and shipping out of area (even across the city) is placing the dealership at risk. Every engine the dealer sells must be installed by them, pre-delivered by them and registered for warranty. You cannot easily buy an engine and install it yourself, if you do you have to bring it in for pre-delivery and registration afterwards. It was made very clear to me that export sales are virtually prohibited. Sales to boat builders who deliver off shore are only allowed under certain conditions. Engines installed and rigged by boat builders are commissioned by dealers or distributors agents.

No dealer will risk their dealership for a couple of offshore sales. Especially when no such restrictions exist on used engines. There are a lot of upgrade deals done, where a new engine is delivered on a new boat and the owner decides they want to go bigger after just a few hours. These virtually new engines can be bought at a good discount.

A new Etec 150 can be bought for around US$13000 plus tax (average of 7%) and a near new engine that was back traded on say a 175 or 200 can go for US$9000 to 9800 (+tax).

None of the engines come with props, accessories, controls or steering arms. Depending on what you want add $1000. Some don't even have lower legs.

Nobody will sell a new engine so let's use the back traded one as an example. It has to be packed for shipping and the dealer will do this, cost around $400 for it to be drained, cleaned and secured. Then local transport has to be arranged for overseas shipping. This is not as easy as it sounds and a dealer experienced with export to Australia will be invaluable here. They also know how much extra they can charge for the service. Add in another $500.

Freight charges, surcharges, export clearance, import clearance, GST and shipping once landed, add around $3000 depending on how far the local transport has to travel.

So say, (9000 + 630 + 1070 + 900) + 3000 = 15600 (now it has to be fitted and rigged).

The bit in brackets is US$ but don't plan on saving much on the exchange rate as bank fees eat most of it so assume it is all A$.

Recently I got quoted on local supply of the same engine, brand new, rigged and with full warranty for a few thousand more than the above. I don't see the value of buying near new from the USA.

But... Engines depreciate rapidly in the USA and engines a few years old can be very good value. Likewise buying a boat in the USA and having it re-powered over there can also offer a substantial saving. But the engine by itself.... too hard. Dealers parts networks in AU will of course not supply warranty parts and they can be otherwise damned expensive. Although cheaper it can be difficult to get parts from the USA for late model engines through official channels.

Hope this helps. Prices vary and some people have access to cheap shipping but for the average punter I think the above is close, so don't take me to the rack if I am not 100% correct.

[Croydon]

Thanks testlab very interesting reading, much appreciated.

Dave

[a boat]

Hi, +1 to what Dave said Testlab, that is a very good answer to this never ending question and pretty much what I know from talking to the US dealers I know, the manufacturers over there have clamped down on OS sales of new engines, but as you said there are heaps of second hand engines, but that can be risky too and if those figures are accurate, and I believe they are, using your example of about $15,600 for V6 Evinrude, then you can buy a brand new one of these for about $17K so not worth it in my opinion.

Cheers,

Huey.

[dunc333]

thanks testlab sounds like you have been down that road very interesting stuff,now can i throw a spanner in has any one tried from spain (just joking) lol

[a boat]

thanks testlab sounds like you have been down that road very interesting stuff,now can i throw a spanner in has any one tried from spain (just joking) lol

HI Mate, that is not as funny as it sounds I have had people claim that is cheap too for some brands but the zero warranty would still apply and some brands in Europe are real cheap for wahtever reason. I have also had people say that buying direct from Japan is something they looked into and the language barrier aside they were a fair bit cheaper there too. I think the US, dues to its market size and, if you believe some companies the "stock dumping" offshore manufacturers do in the US, it is still by far the cheapest for some brands.

I am sure Dave will keep us posted on his "findings' and I find it interesting too.

Cheers,

Huey.

[a boat]

Hi, any hard concrete facts and figures on that or is that just your opinion because anytime we get a second hand boat here with an E-TEC or a loose engine they are extremely easy to resell and in fact a Stacer with a V4 E-TEC was sold the same day it came in second hand a few weeks ago and we got very good money for it. I would love to have a good selection of second hand E-TEC because they are easy to resell on older boats that can not just carry the weight of 4-Strokes

I for one, who has been selling second hand boats for a very long time, am very cautious trading an out of warrnay 4-Stroke because I am not sure how many cylinder heads or sumps you have needed to buy for any 4-Stroke but they are expensive if and when they fail due to breaking or worse corrosion. In fact we have a 4-Stroke in here this week, that is only 7 years old and less than 100 hours on it and it has a corroded head that is worth more than the engine is worth to replace so that would be a pain if you had bought this engine second hand, where as the brand you say has terrible resale the cylinder head for such an engine, if they corrode (many Evinrudes lasting 30 plus years in salt water), is only about $500 to replace-these are facts not opinions.

I must be very stupid if what you say is true because I will pay more for an E-TEC on a boat that we trade-in because I know when I warrant it once I have resold it, if it has a corrosion problem it is cost effective to fix unlike the example you used of that 225HP that is known in the industry to have "cancer" of the sump, exhaust housing and cylinder heads so that is a good one to stay away from if you are buying second hand-but I guess that is where experience of doing this daily for close to 50 years comes in.

Cheers,

Huey.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[herbmozo]

Huey, you are an E-Tec dealer and have complete faith in what you sell. My marine mechanic who i trust completely ( for the past 10 years ) told me to stay away from them, not just from all of the stories you hear about them. The Yamaha you refer to is 2002 to 2004 models which had the problems with corrosion. I was talking about the new 4.2l model. Just because i said something negative about an E-Tec doesn't require such defence, you are a well respected member of this site. I was merely giving some advice, knowledge and opinion based on my experience.

[a boat]

Hi, yes I am and I make the least amount of money out of servicing them and your mechanic, like anyone is entitled to an opinion and most of the "stories" you hear are second or even third hand- "I have a mate" or "I know someone". If your mechanic is right then I guess all the old time companies in the industry, that have been around 30,40 or even 50 years, that stock Evinrude do not know what they are doing either. The facts are in Sydney alone the Evinrude dealers are the long time dealers that you would think know what they are doing and have seen and heard it all. Also take Telwater, the biggest thing in the trailer boat industry, they factory rig Evinrude now soley so I guess they do not know what they are doing either and trust me when they gave Merc the flick they had all the other outboard brands wanting them to factory rig their engines. If your mechanci is not a E dealer, hardly works on or runs them, then I would take what he says with a grain of salt and if he is a dealer from another brand of course he is going to bad mouth an opposition, which I see all the time-but if you trust him than great. As I say to everyone there are no real bad outboard brands today but from time to time ALL brands have problem child engines but we do not see big problem with what we choose to stock.

No the F225 3.3L engines are alot later models than that I am referring to and I would be surprised if you could get the new 4.2L engine second hand cheap due to being new and I guess you have not heard of the dramas with these over in the States and talking of that 4.2Lengine I would hate to own such an engine out of warranty and she has a failure because with that engine block design you can not just rebuild it with OS pistons and be on your way again.Until I see one of these running happily with 10-15 years of salt water use under its belt I will reserve my judgment.

You can say what you like about E-TEC and what your opinion is of them, even though you probably have never owned one, but I am entitled to give my advice, knowledge and experience too. You made a statement saying the resale was "terrible" which is far from what I see daily and just this week a gentleman purchased a second hand 90HP E-TEC from Qld that has done 680 hours and he paid $8500 for it so considering a new one is $12K then that engine held its re-sale very well and once we rig it right it will probably last him another 600 plus hours, which for the pleasure user is about 15 years of use. Another example here this week, which you are more than welcome to come in and see what I am talking about, a 60HP E-TEC, 2005 model that has 1676 hours on it of salt water use everyday as a commuter engine, so it never gets flushed and it has sunk twce, but it is still running so compared to that other 4-Stroke I mentioned in the other reply that corroded after less than 100 hours than I know which one is worth more money even with its hours on it-because it is still running.

Cheers,

Huey.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Huey @ Huett Marine

[Thunderace]

Sunk twice !!!, not sure I want to commute with him, hahahahah

[a boat]

Hi, no but it happens every time we get some rain-there will be a call in them morning saying a commuters boat at Berowra Water or Brooklyn has sunk and you would be surprised how some brands of engines can survive if looked at by people who know what they are doing straight away. We have a fair few I-2 E-TEC that have gone under that are still running fine-even the EMM-it is totaly sealed and yes there a few things that need to be done but they survive.

We are getting off this intersting topic about the viability of importing either a new or scond hand outboard and I for one would be interested in see what the costings are because as it has been pointed out to me I am an outboard dealer for a certain brand so it is in my best interest to see what can br bought in and if any warranty.

Cheers,

Huey.

[adjustedpete]

Im happy to hijack this thread..Love your work Huey. ..I for one would never even consider getting repairs or buying a motor or boat from someone else. I remember when i first bought my boat and brought it to Huett marine. I was treated in a way that surpasses money (thanks Craig) Just to think, that someone thinks that your company would give someone a bum steer is absolutely abhorrent to me. And to all you people who are considering buying or getting repairs, Dont go past our sponser....A fair days work for a fair days pay and then some. " In my humble opinion.".. Remember, that he gives away for free on this site, what you would go to X dealer/mechanic and pay money for. ...................

Try getting that elsewhere

[Croydon]

Well hasn't this generated some interest!

Thank you to everyone that has posted. It has given me great food for thought. I appreciate all the input from the average punter and the working professional in the boating industry. But this isn't about brands. I think all brands of outboard are extremely good motors, all of which have positives and negatives.

When I get some facts and figures on the possibility of importing a motor I'll let you know. For now much appreciated everyone and thanks to you all.

Dave