Jew Stalker Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 It seems what I thought was a brown trout in Thommo's turned out to be an Atlantic Salmon. I had no idea that these were stocked in here. I have seen no information from my research on this so was highly surprised to find out that my brown caught there was not what it seemed. What first raised my suspicions was a comment by a friend of mine after showing him photos of my catch. He told me that it was definitely an Atlantic because of a few reasons. 1) On a Salmon the Maxillary usually extends to the rear of the eye or slightly beyond whereas on a brown it extends well beyond the eye. 2) On a Salmon the adipose fin is bare of spots whereas there are always spots on the brown. 3) Caudal fins on Salmon are slightly forked whereas on browns they are generally square. 4) The vomerine teelth on the roof of the mouth are in a single line as opposed to a zigzag on browns which I was initially blown away with upon inspection as I did not know they had teeth in there and I remember the single row of teeth clearly. 5) There are X marks on the body of a salmon whereas on a brown they are always circles. 6) The colour of Salmon are silver as opposed to the brown tinge on the brown trout. I was surprised to learn this and have since done some research to confirm what he said and all points to it being a Salmon as opposed to a Brown Trout. I am well impressed with myself for catching something I had no idea was in there hehe. The one I caught came in at 57cm and weighed 6lb intact. It was quite a fat fish. (That is a 1 1/2 litre coke bottle above it.) I threw in a pic of a brown for comparison. Enjoy. Luc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam bros Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 wow an atlantic salmon in caught in aus i knew they were being stocked but didn't know where congratulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratchie Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Luc, I would have made more of an effort if you told me there were fish in there! Lol It was a great fish anyway, regardless of specie! Cheers scratchie!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Stalker Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 wow an atlantic salmon in caught in aus i knew they were being stocked but didn't know where congratulations Thanks Sam, they are stocked in a few places here in Oz. The ones I knew of were Jindabyne NSW, Lakes Purrumbete and Bullen Merri in North west Victoria. I had no idea they were in Thommo's either and am currently researching whether they have been stocked in there. Everything I have seen with the characteristics of the fish though point to it being a Salmon. Lets see how the research unfolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Stalker Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 Luc, I would have made more of an effort if you told me there were fish in there! Lol It was a great fish anyway, regardless of specie! Cheers scratchie!!! I told you there was fish in there hehehe. Didn't you see that one follow my lure in on the south side??? Thanks bud. Perhaps you should come and join me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderick -angler Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Luc, did you check the roof of the mouth the colour will give it away white equals a brownie and black equals a salmon from my experiences in NZ! Looks very similar to a sea runner brown! Or maybe someone got the fry mixed up for the release!!!!! Or slipped a surprise in!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderick -angler Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Luc how are you for next weekend? Saturday or Sunday????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I am going to throw a spanner in the works here, I dont think its an Atlantic. I think its a Brown, the big telling point is the tail, Atlantic Salmon have a very convex tail, much like a lot of saltwater pelagics whilst browns have the straighter tail as shown in the photo. I cant see the peduncle from the photo but the adipose looks like it has spots (at least from the photo) and the Maxillary isnt a reliable indicator in my book. That fish looks a lot like the very 'pelagic' Browns that we get in Eucumbene that love to swim mid water following the daphnia. But, hard to tell from a photo (sure can see the teeth) Thing is, there is no records of Atlantics being stocked into TCD anytime in the last couple of decades and associations cannot have them stocked in waterways as far as I am aware. Either way, its a cracker of a fish Cheers Windy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Stalker Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 Mate I am definitely good for Sunday, not sure about Saturday. To be honest I can't recall the roof of mouth colour, I can however recall that it had a single row of teeth up there, that really caught my attention. I never knew they had them and it really surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Stalker Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 I am of 2 mins also windy, but from what I have researched it seems to be legit. It is a shame I do not have it to look at all bits in detail. I just thought it was a big brown until a mate told me otherwise and I did some research which suggested otherwise. Either way I am pretty happy with it. I would like to know for sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 The vomerine teeth would be the reliable part, if you think they are in a straight line then stick with it and call it for an Atlantic Oddly enough, TCD strikes me as a good lake to have Salmon in it, reminds me a bit of Bullen Merri, deep water and an abundant food supply. Only problem is the heat in Summer. Windy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolforjesus Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 (edited) Hi Luc, I can confidently say without any hesitation that the fish you have there is a Brown Trout. The color those particular Brownies have is due to their diet and the depth/area of water they live in. I would say, that fish and others with a very silver "sea run" appearance in TCD are feeding on bait fish, and probably yabbies, which gives them a very creamy under belly, and silver flanks. I am a regular up at the ol Thommo, and have caught countless brown Trout there. Some are dark Brown, some are creamy tan, others a bar of silver. There is a real diversity in their appearance. As Matt has pointed out, the tail of a salmon is generally forked, and there is no record of Salmon being stocked in TCD. I am familiar with the stocking program there, and can confirm this to be true. Great fish Mate, but 100% Loch Leven strain. That will open a whole new can of worms lol...All Brown Trout in Australia are infact from the Loch Leven strain in Scotland. So yeah, Brown trout without doubt. Cheers, Chris Edited September 15, 2013 by foolforjesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Gotta love the Loch Leven Browns, amazing how the one strain has so many different colourations. In fact, I can't think of another fish that has so much variablity in colour. A few years back we were fishing Coppermine Bay at Eucy and we got three Browns in a row. The first was a beautiful buttercup coloured fish, archetypal Brown. Next was a pelagic fish, silver and streamlined and the last was the most amazing looking fish ever. It was almost green! I will pop up the photo's when i get home this arvo. Windy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolforjesus Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 The point you made regarding the relation of where the eye sits to the mouth is not always clear, and in my book not an accurate way to distinguish between the two salmonoids. Regarding there being no spots on the adipose fin and tail of a Brown Trout, that is also not an accurate sign. A lot of Brown Trout which I have caught have spots in the adipose fin, and running up the top edge of the tail, even further into the tail itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimnicdusty Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 looks like a brown trout to me. i have caugt a lot of browns that look like that. here are 2 browns caught out of the campbells river. totally different looking fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 yeah that's a brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderick -angler Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Hey chris, you may want to check your info on the original strain of browns stocked here have a read of JohnHedges book Trout fishing in NSw 2nd ed 1963 I have a copy, the orginal strains came from 3 UKrivers wit hsea run fish they were sent to various hatcheries then released ova from these fish went to NZ which then sent more back here as they had better conditions to breed them. This is pretty much verbatim from the book I'll scan and copy the inf owhe nI get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolforjesus Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Hi Royce, I've not heard of that book. Check this out: http://www.atfonline.com.au/History%20of%20Trout%20in%20Australia.pdf James Youl is the Man! Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I think the majority of what we have are Loch Leven, which came on the third shipment I believe. From memory, the second shipment was sea run Browns but they all died. Not sure what the first shipment were, which formed the very first harchery on the Plenty in Tassie. I guess they could have been the sea runners? Windy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolforjesus Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Talk about not giving up on a vision. Can you imagine the heartbreak the first two times, and were not talking a quick process here! Ever since I Iearn't the history behind the introduction of Trout into Australia, I often say a quiet thank you to James Youl. For if it were not for this man, and the people around him, we would not be enjoying the fruits of their labor, Trout! Edited September 16, 2013 by foolforjesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolforjesus Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I think we owe a debt to Frank Buckland & Francis Francis too, whose generosity has provided a lasting legacy of exceptional Trout fishing, here in Australia & New Zealand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Stalker Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thanks for all of the info guys. I think we will knock this one on the head and call it a nice brown then, either way I am still stoked with it. . You guys have more experience with them than me so I will rely on your judgement. Especially since you said Chris that you are familiar with the stocking program and they have never stocked them in TCD. That is pretty much the dead give away I guess. I have been trying to research the stocking but have been unable to find anything at all thus far regarding TCD. Thanks again for the input all. Luc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolforjesus Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I happened to be there one day when fisheries were releasing some fingerlings, so I asked a few questions. The people at Bathurst fisheries & the hatcheries are pretty happy to share any stocking info as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy72 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) either way nice fish mate, but certainly looks like a brown to me. but stranger things have happened, interestingly in the late 90's a photo of a fit 5lb brown (caught in lowers cox's around the spawn run time) was seen by fisheries (i think the photo was up on the wall at a syd tackle shop) it was identified as a salmon by a guy from fisheries?apparently they had been stocked in there decades ago but should have all died out as they were not supposed to be able to reproduce..... 'life' has a way of winning, and identifying fish can be tricky.. so who knows? best get back up there get another one and take some good photosanybody here ever caught one of the brook trout they stocked in there at the beginning all be yabby food now i guess? PS you can get stocking data from fisheries if you ask nicely, for personal purposes only, i hope posting here is not going to get me into trouble 08/09 Brown trout 5,000 fingerling Thompsons Creek Dam Portland 08/09 Rainbow trout 5,000 fingerling Thompsons Creek Dam Portland 09/10 Brown Trout 5,000 fingerling Thompsons Creek Dam Portland 09/10 Rainbow Trout 5,000 fingerling Thompsons Creek Dam Portland Edited September 20, 2013 by jimmy72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Talk about not giving up on a vision. Can you imagine the heartbreak the first two times, and were not talking a quick process here! Ever since I Iearn't the history behind the introduction of Trout into Australia, I often say a quiet thank you to James Youl. For if it were not for this man, and the people around him, we would not be enjoying the fruits of their labor, Trout! and we'd have more natives to target, but that's another can of worms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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