Tournament Leak Progress Report

[Paikea]

I could not work out how to attach pics to a reply to my existing post so here is a progress report on finding the very serious leak in my Tournament.

I got under the transom and measured the centre of the aft compartment as near as I could tell from the pic of the grid layout. Then drilled a 12mm hole through the floor and inserted an inspection scope.

At first I could not get a clear picture, it seemed like bits of rubbish were passing over the lens. Then I realised that the compartment had filled with water again.

Got a small pump such as used to drain sump oil through the dipstick hole of a motor and pumped away. I three quarter filled one bucket and left the rest in to show the guy who sold the boat to me.

Checked the drain to the anchor well but that goes directly thru the hull at the bottom of the well.

The boat is stored outside under a very heavy duty waterproof cover. A little water gets in via the wraps around the Targa Top but that goes out the rear central bung.

The only thing that I can think of is that somehow the forward compartments have water in them that takes a while to seep through to the aft compartment so that when I thought it had fully drained and plugged the holes it slowly filled up again. That still does not explain how the water has or is getting in.

The below floor grid layout.

The area under the transom. (I was wrong about the batteries sitting on top of the centre of the aft compartment)

The hole drilled in the floor and tube/pump to remove the water.

Pumping into a small bucket.

Three quarter filled larger bucket before I stopped. Still more water in the compartment.

Where do I go from here? The boat is clearly not safe to take in the water. The boating business that sold me the boat told me that they had traded the boat in but as it was obviously in first class condition they had not bothered to take it for a run. I did likewise and accepted that the boat was in good order.

It seems now that a test run would have had the boat running at a lean to Starboard (unless both the Port and Starboard sealed compartments have water in them?) Blakes Marine apparently found a lean to Starboard in the T20 Tournament that they checked for a client and a lot of water in all compartments.

I will also call Haines who now own Tournament (when they get back to work in January) and make them aware of the problem. In the meantime is anyone interested in buying a lump of fibreglass in the shape of a boat?

(My mother in law always said that it is vital to keep your sense of humour)

Cheers

Paikea

[pjbink]

Forgive me if this sounds obvious, but do you have all the bungs out and do you store the boat with

the bow elevated?

[Juggs]

my Allison will have water in the nose if I don't elevate the nose after a days fishing.
water slopping in in rough water, rain, spray washing down the bait table or when a squid tries to block the bait tank outlet
work out how its getting in first before declaring it a issue

leaking bungs
Engine bolts
skin fittings

anchor well drain port

bait tank fittings

none of these fittings will stay sealed for ever and require maintenance every few years to ensure the integrity of the jointing compounds used to seal

[Paikea]

Forgive me if this sounds obvious, but do you have all the bungs out and do you store the boat with

the bow elevated?

my Allison will have water in the nose if I don't elevate the nose after a days fishing.

water slopping in in rough water, rain, spray washing down the bait table or when a squid tries to block the bait tank outlet

work out how its getting in first before declaring it a issue

leaking bungs

Engine bolts

skin fittings

anchor well drain port

bait tank fittings

none of these fittings will stay sealed for ever and require maintenance every few years to ensure the integrity of the jointing compounds used to seal

Yes the boat is stored with a nose up attitude that drains any water that gets into the central well. The central bung is left out. (it only has one large bung to drain the central area.) There are no skin fittings into the side compartments, the engine bolts are in the central (open) compartment, the anchor well drains straight thru the hull, no way to get water into the side compartments from there, the bait tank fittings are on the Port side and completely sealed, all hoses external, no skin fittings used.

The problem is that as the side compartments are completely sealed between the hull and the floor (see the grid layout) there is no way that I can see for water to get into them except from holes in the transom that have not been properly sealed.

If water did get in through leaking screws in the transom then I still can't see how I could drain the water out of the rear compartment some months ago (and the boat has not been in the water) yet the same rear compartment has filled up again. The join between the floor and the hull looks sound, no pin holes, no breaks, no cracks. Driving me nuts!

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, I much appreciate you taking the time to try and help.

Cheers

Paikea

[Paikea]

I am biting the bullet and taking the boat to GKN fibreglass repairs at Taren Point next Monday. They have a good reputation and Graham reckons that he can find and fix the problem.

He also does a lot of work and has a good relationship with the firm that I bought the boat from. That will make it easier to get the firm to both view the problem and agree a solution.

I will post results

Cheers

Paikea

[batfishing]

I am biting the bullet and taking the boat to GKN fibreglass repairs at Taren Point next Monday. They have a good reputation and Graham reckons that he can find and fix the problem.

He also does a lot of work and has a good relationship with the firm that I bought the boat from. That will make it easier to get the firm to both view the problem and agree a solution.

I will post results

Cheers

Paikea

Pretty certain, that's who did some repairs on mine at the marina last year, did a great job

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Testlab]

I'm intrigued. Keep us in the loop.

[njsconst]

_{I agree with Testlab.}

_{A lot of keen boat owners are watching your thread. Will be interested to see what response you get from Tournament boats.}

_{This has already damaged their brand considerably. I know I would never buy one of their boats now.}

[Paikea]

A lot of keen boat owners are watching your thread. Will be interested to see  what response you get from Tournament boats. This has already damaged their brand considerably. I know I would never buy one of their boats now.

I still love the boat and it will be fixed, the problem may not have anything to do with the manufacturer but results from the poor installation of the original transducer and water somehow finding its way into the forward compartments.

I will be most interested to find out whether the compartments are supposed to be completely sealed from each other and whether they are foam filled.

One (hopefully wrong) theory is that the material used to fasten the Fibreglass grid to the hull has not covered the whole of each attachment or the material is breaking down allowing the grid to detach from the hull in some areas. Now that would be a major problem.

I will be contacting Haines when they return to work next week and seek their assistance to solve the problem. The real test will be how they respond. If they don't want to know then I agree you would have to think twice about buying a Tournament Boat. However Haines is a reputable firm, they have only just purchased Tournament Boats so it will be in their interest to get to the bottom of my problem.

Keep watching this space.

Cheers

Paikea

Edited January 1, 2014 by Paikea

[Paikea]

Just a quick update. I heard from the firm who sold me the boat today. Their comments were as follows:

1) No problem with fresh water affecting the transom, they are made from a composite material that is not affected.

2) All boats get water in them, just fit some bungs to drain it out, that will solve the problem. (they would pay for that)

3) All boats that have completely sealed compartments and no bungs to drain them suffer this problem. Even Signature boats. He also mentioned another major brand that they deal in and said that they often have to drain water from them when they are delivered to them.

4) They are willing to fit the bungs but beyond that they claim that there is no warranty on second hand boats.

It will be interesting to see what GKM make of the problem. If the water did get in through the transducer screw holes and fresh water will not affect the transom fitting bungs may be a good and inexpensive solution. If so I would do it on both sides of the boat. And for my own peace of mind I would probably fit inspection ports to the rear compartments. That way I will be able to keep an eye on the area plus completely dry it out.

It will also be interesting to see what Haines have to say when I ring them on Monday.

Cheers

Paikea

[pjbink]

Tournament boats do have wood in the transom, otherwise the dealers advise sounds reasonable.

[Testlab]

Personally I would always prefer to be able to access major compartments. The ports and bungs make good sense.

[Paikea]

Following is a pic of the 100mm inspection port that I will have fitted in the floor above the rear "sealed" compartments

Having them there, regardless of what GKM find on Monday will allow me to check the rear compartments at any time and give me piece of mind.

At $34.00 for the two ports (you can fit them yourself) I think they are worth putting in any boat that has sealed compartments with no drains.

Cheers

Paikea

[LeoB]

G'day

I'd be contacting the relevant ombudsman because I'm pretty sure any dealer has to offer a 6month warranty? I may be wrong but the ombudsman would be able to clear those details

Cheers Leo

[Paikea]

I don't think it will come to that. The dealer seems a pretty reasonable guy.

I looked up the Competition and Consumers Act 2010, Schedule 1 of that Act gives a description of statutory guarantees. A bit heavy going but worth knowing by anyone who has been told there is no guarantee on something that they have bought:

So, there is pretty good protection for consumers.

Cheers

Paikea

Edited January 5, 2014 by Paikea

[Paikea]

Delivered the boat to GKM today, they seem very professional.

Rang Haines and talked to the Production Manager for Tournament boats who could not have been more helpful. Very impressed by their approach.They are sending me full details of the actual grid for the 1800 and some pics.

Also found that there is a small gap (+/- 25mm) between the bottom of the floor and the top edge of the stringers, if you look at the pic of the grid layout you can readily see that gap. That gap would allow water to pass between compartments but only if the boat was laid on its side which it obviously hasn't. Hence the mystery of water possibly getting fromthe front compartments to the transom remains.

All in all I feel that we are getting there and should be able to put things right.

Cheers

Paikea

[Paikea]

Just an update on progress:

Firstly Haines have been fabulous, they sent me a picture of the 1800 FG grid (stringers etc)with full dimensions hand written onto the pic to enable us to locate the best spots for the inspection ports that GKM are fitting. Great to get that sort of service from a company that now manufacture a wide range of top brands. (Tournament, Signature, Seafarer etc)

GKM found that the original transducer mounting screw holes that I drained the water through had become clogged with debris giving the impression that I had drained all of the water out when in fact there was quite a bit more in there. Hopefully this means that there is no water in the forward compartments draining back into the aft compartment as I first thought.

GKM are confident that the water entered the aft compartment by seeping past the transducer mounting screws that were too long (penetrated the transom timber)and badly sealed. They suggested that the guy who owned the boat before me may have kept the boat in the water at Lake Jindabyne when he went there for water skiing holidays. If so that would certainly have increased the opportunity for water to seep past the screws. However I still cannot get my head around 48 litres of water having seeped past 4mm screws.

When GKM fits the inspection ports we will a) see if there is any water in the starboard side rear compartment, and ditto for the front compartment.(Ports are being fitted under each seat.) If none there the water seeping past the screws theory would appear to be valid.

GKM took the boat of the trailer which is giving me an opportunity to more easily measure up for a central walkway that I want to fit and spray the whole trailer with Valvoline Tectyl.

Hopefully GKM will finish this week which means that I might finally be able to take the boat out and do some fishing.

Finally I hope that I am not boring Raiders to death with my blow to blow description of fixing this problem.

Cheers

Paikea

[shak4g63]

Im keenly following your progress mate, its actually quite interesting. .....keep us in the loop

Tight lines!, Shakeel

[arpie]

Sounds like you are having success there, Paikea - hope you are out on the water soon!!

cheers

Roberta

[Paikea]

Bad news I'm afraid, today we found water in both sides and all sealed compartments.

Clearly having water in both sides means that it did not affect the angle that the boat ran at.

In all we removed more than 120 litres of fresh water.

To find the leaks we fitted inspection ports to the front and aft chambers of the boat and drilled small holes in the floor above the other chambers and inspected those with an inspection scope. That established that there was water in every chamber.

Where the floor is glassed to the hull and the forward bulkhead (behind the gunwale/dash mould) it appears that the glass has not fully covered the joint with the result that anyone hosing the boat out, would inevitably put a quantity of water into the forward compartment which, when full would then overflow into the next compartment and so on.

The attached picture was taken with my phone lying on the floor looking up into the area where the floor should be bonded to both the hull and the bulkhead. The glassing of that join is incomplete. We are cutting the bottom of the cabin mould to gain access to the area to fix the problem. We are also doing further tests tomorrow to be 100% sure that this is the cause of water in the sealed chambers.

Given my experience it might be a good idea for other owners of Tournament (and similarly constructed) Boats to check the area in the picture and if the join in their boat looks the same drill a small hole in the floor above the forward compartment to see if there is any water in the chamber.

Not happy Jan!

Paikea

[LeoB]

Not good at all mate, that's terrible glass work.

Out of interest what's the plan of attack from here?

Cheers Leo

[Testlab]

Holy cow!!! That's an unexpected turn of events. At least with the enclosed spaces being inspected by cam you know there aren't any more of these sparse glass joints.

[Dfishin]

Paikea

Out of interest. Is it a Tournament boat or the old Mustang tournament. These are the same boat but not sure if were built by the same company?

Im interested because my old man has a Mustang 2250 and had a Mustang Tournament 2000 before that?

Honestly cant get over the situation your finding here. Makes me want to check out this Fibreglass join in my own boat (Not tournament). It makes it really hard when they are sealed. More info on where the fault lies please.

Dave

[Paikea]

We will know more tomorrow when we get complete access to the area.

The funny part is that every other area of the boat, (and GKM and I have gone over every inch of it,) is of the highest standard, glasswork, mouldings, floor and transom materials and thickness, all 110%. And I just love the shape of the hull and the interior layout, It will be a great fishing boat once we fix the leak.

It does make you thing about having sealed chambers in a boat though doesn't? That is, sealed without any way of checking if there is any water in the chambers.

GKM will have to glass the area to make the joint between the floor, bulkhead etc watertight. Other than being in an awkward position that should not be too difficult. The part that they cut off the bottom of the deck moulding will not be replaced, we will just finish the edge with pinch weld.

The holes that we have put in the floor at the front and rear compartments will be fitted with inspection ports, The smaller holes drilled in the floor over the other compartments will likely have some recessed plug fitted so that they can be checked if I ever find that either the front or rear compartment again gets water in it.

The boat was originally purchased in 2011, I bought it in April 2013 and have yet to put it in the water..

Watch this space for (hopefully) final details

Cheers

Paikea

[arpie]

BUGGER!!!