SquidMarks Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Ok, i have been sitting on this problem for wayyy to long! The current plywood floor is squishy and i fear my foot will fall through at any moment. I have started a thread a while back with flooring alternatives but my procrastination and cheapskatedness (is there a word?) has got the best of me. I was looking at replacing it with extruded poly foam but it looks like its unstable when it comes in contact with fuel so id rather get something that wont melt on me. Im not going down the plywood, seal and hope for the best and would rather spend a bit more moolah and do the job right! Im going to buy ally sheet 5052 grade (marine) and will be looking to glue on top a non slip vinyl of sorts and hopefully that will be the end of that. Now, my main concern is what thickness of sheet could i use? The boat is a quintrex and i understand that thickness depends on sub floor frame and how the floor is supported, but im guessing 3mm ought to be enough (considering the bottom of the boat is 3mm press out of the same material). The question i ask, am i wasting money paying for 3mm when 2mm might be enough? (since ally is sold by the kg, 3mm vs 2mm equals a 33% difference in price). Im not a metallurgist but im hoping someone with experience may be able to chime in? Edited November 8, 2015 by SquidMarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abecedarian Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 It would need to be reinforced with struts to be rigid enough with either 2mm or 3mm unless you have supports about every 30cm I'd think. Ideally if the struts were bent into the aluminum sheet then you'd have the strongest setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiremm Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Have you looked into using plastic? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 what sort of plastic are we talking about here? starboard? (hdpe)? i believe cost wise its on another level (but i cant say with certainty). i was looking at it though and its $$$. Unless were talking another type of plastic im not aware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) and im thinking with hdpe i would need to go 12mm? each 3000 x 1500 sheet is around 700 bux so thats a bit rich for my blood Edited November 8, 2015 by SquidMarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiremm Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 HDPE you can pick it up in a 12mm sheet for about $150 a square metre. And you will never have to worry about doing the floor again. 2mm or 3mm alluminium will not have the structural integrity to be used as a floor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 i need around 4m x 2m (8m squared) and that starts getting a bit cost prohibitive ($1000) but maybe when i factor in that i dont need to place vinyl on top it might be a bit better... i will need to rip up the existing floor first and see whats going on underneath, that way i can assess which way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiremm Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Post some pictures of what you find and how you re make the floor. I have made a couple of them before but I have to do the floor in my Stacer soon and I'm looking at changing it from ply wood. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Are you going to weld the aluminium floor in? That will require special skills and equipment. Also you will need a safe way of cutting the aluminium. Angle grinders are too fast and the disc can jam and shatter and injure you. There is also an explosion hazard from the fine aluminium particles generated. Plywood should be long lasting if you seal both sides and edges and holes you have drilled with epoxy resin (it's very good at waterproofing) and easier to work with. Edited November 8, 2015 by billfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 no welding, just using as a direct replacement for the ply (use the old ply floor as a stencil, including holes for screws). I will get some quotes for the aluminium and compare it to ply + epoxy resin coating and hdpe and will go from there, but longevity wise its HDPE then aluminium then ply i believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4myson Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 WD40 DESTROYING ENGINES !! ALUMINIUM EXPLODING !!! Seriously " BILLFISHER "where do you come up with this STUFF ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric001 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Why would you weld in the floor??? You'll change the design stress of the boat and introduce new fatigue points. Aluminium dust can explode in correct circumstances. Refer extract: "During fabricating operations, aluminum fines may be generated by such activities as grinding, sawing, cutting, sanding or scratch brushing and at least some of them will be fine enough to be potentially explosible. The term “dust” or “powder” is frequently used to describe such particles. It is difficult to be specific about dimensions, but if all the particles are larger than 500 microns, an explosion will probably not be sustained. It is more likely, however, that a mixture of coarser and finer material will be generated, and if the material is 420 microns (40 mesh) or finer, then it has the potential for explosion. Finer particles burn readily when their ignition point is reached, and tend to ignite the coarser particles as well. In the case of aluminum, an explosion can result if ignition occurs while the particles are suspended in air as a dust cloud, since the burning extends from one particle to another with extreme speed. Examples of potential sources of ignition are open flames, welding equipment and cutting torches, matches and cigarettes, faulty electrical equipment and static electrical discharges. Such conditions must be avoided in areas where dust producing operations are carried out." [emoji848] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amkr Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Are you going to weld the aluminium floor in? That will require special skills and equipment. A mig or tig welder and about 15 minutes of practice. Angle grinders are too fast and the disc can jam and shatter and injure you. Only if you let it get so clogged up with aluminium that it won't cut.. I think you'll notice it not cutting long before it gets to the stage where it wants to "shatter". Also, grinder discs are usually fiber reinforced now, so that shattering doesn't really occur. There is also an explosion hazard from the fine aluminium particles generated. If you mix it with rust and superheat it, like hotter than the burners on an oven kind of hot... All in all, its pretty straight forward and safe - just keep the grinder clean from buildup to prevent it clogging (you'll want to do this to make the cuts faster anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I wasn't suggested he weld the floor, just asking. If i was doing the job on my boat I wouldn't use aluminium in any case - I'd go for plywood and seal it well with epoxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 WD40 DESTROYING ENGINES !! ALUMINIUM EXPLODING !!! Seriously " BILLFISHER "where do you come up with this STUFF ?????????? Apart from being a qualified chemist it is fairly common knowledge what I have said on these topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Guys, in terms of cutting aluminium, a jigsaw with a wood blade will do it and you use wd40 for lube so there's no need to get all fancy with angle grinders. (my father in law is a sheet metal fabricator and has been doing it this way for years). Im planning on replacing floor with ally but will get quotes today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amkr Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Guys, in terms of cutting aluminium, a jigsaw with a wood blade will do it and you use wd40 for lube so there's no need to get all fancy with angle grinders. (my father in law is a sheet metal fabricator and has been doing it this way for years). Im planning on replacing floor with ally but will get quotes today. Better still, spend the $8 and get a blade designed for alu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) A mig or tig welder and about 15 minutes of practice. Only if you let it get so clogged up with aluminium that it won't cut.. I think you'll notice it not cutting long before it gets to the stage where it wants to "shatter". Also, grinder discs are usually fiber reinforced now, so that shattering doesn't really occur. If you mix it with rust and superheat it, like hotter than the burners on an oven kind of hot... All in all, its pretty straight forward and safe - just keep the grinder clean from buildup to prevent it clogging (you'll want to do this to make the cuts faster anyway). I did say specialised equipment - most people dont have a mig or tig welder lying around. With angle grinders but it is not unheard of for people to notice it's not cutting so they will press harder, the heat generated can be enough to melt the aluminium hence the clogging. Explosions are rare but not unheard of (aluminium power is a common ingredient in explosives) . Also people have used saw type blades in angle grinders and they have shattered and angle grinders are not completely shielded. Fiber reinforced grinder blades may not shatter but the grinder can be prone to kicking back if the disc gets caught and lead to injuries. Edited November 9, 2015 by billfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4myson Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Billfisher STICK to your CHEMISTRY SET mate .... When is the last time anyone has ever heard of some blowing up by working with ALUMINIUM SHEETING ????? Go on tell me .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Billfisher STICK to your CHEMISTRY SET mate .... When is the last time anyone has ever heard of some blowing up by working with ALUMINIUM SHEETING ????? Go on tell me .... It's happened, I can give references if you are really interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abecedarian Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Billfisher STICK to your CHEMISTRY SET mate .... When is the last time anyone has ever heard of some blowing up by working with ALUMINIUM SHEETING ????? Go on tell me .... Ignorant people always with the most to say. So much for a respectful attitude on this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquidMarks Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 guys... im going to be A bit immature here and say it! this is MY thread where im asking for peoples HELP! so there!!! Lets blow up aluminium elsewhere. (i do blow up aluminium at work but we are talking powder, the conditions for an explosion without a source of ignition really are hard to recreate at home so i doubt i will blow myself up doing this project using a jigsaw, the filings will just be too large, the fillings will not be suspended in air and their ignition point wont be reached due to use of lubricant and a slow speed on the jigsaw). The argument can be taken to another explosive material... wheat flour, it also is an explosive in the right conditions but that doesn't mean bakers wear face shield etc when baking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amkr Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 ^ Sugar is highly combustable too. Just ask the people in Rozelle in 2004. but I'm not going to stand behind a blastproof wall when I add it to tea. Re Alu flooring, the thickness will depend on how much framing is underneath it and the distance between any framework. For example a 2mm sheet is going to be rubbish if theres 500mm in between any reinforcement, but if its 200mm it probably wont flex too much.. Another thing to consider is heat, even with rubber tube flooring over it, its still going to soak up a LOT of heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amkr Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ignorant people always with the most to say. So much for a respectful attitude on this forum... Ignorant people who have probably cut and fabricated more pieces of alu and steel in the last year than you will in a lifetime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbink Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 guys... im going to be A bit immature here and say it! this is MY thread where im asking for peoples HELP! so there!!! Lets blow up aluminium elsewhere. (i do blow up aluminium at work but we are talking powder, the conditions for an explosion without a source of ignition really are hard to recreate at home so i doubt i will blow myself up doing this project using a jigsaw, the filings will just be too large, the fillings will not be suspended in air and their ignition point wont be reached due to use of lubricant and a slow speed on the jigsaw). The argument can be taken to another explosive material... wheat flour, it also is an explosive in the right conditions but that doesn't mean bakers wear face shield etc when baking. There is another way it can explode called a thermite reaction which can occur when iron oxide is mixed with powdered aluminium. It is therefore not a good idea to use a cutting wheel or a grinding wheel that has been used on rusty steel susequently on aluminium. PS: You don't seem to have considered that though you are using a safe cutting method someone else might try to do the same project after reading this thread and would have done it in an unsafe way if i had not highlighted the pitfalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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