Bites. What was likely that and what should I do next time?

[savit]

Yesterday night I went beach fishing . Paternoster rig , large peace of muller on 2 hooks 4/0 and 6/0, 50 lb 1m leader, braid as a main line. Several times I had very similar situation: A few small bites, then fish pulls the line with 3 kg drag for 3 seconds or so , then fish drops the bait once I start reeling. First time - I did not set the hook, second time - I was setting the hook. The end in both situations was the same.

What was likely that, and what should I do or use next time? Thank you.

[big Neil]

Hard to say what it was but it could have been a smallish fish that "tasted" the bait and let go when it felt resistance. Maybe you could try a 2 hook paternoster rig with a large hook and bait plus a smaller hook and bait. You could end up finding out what it was. Good luck.

[savit]

Thank you Big Neil. Will try next time. I usually add a separate smaller hook with bait to punish those small pests while targeting bream and drummer. However I think it was something different as it pulled the line each time much stronger than my usual 30-45 cm catch does.

[dirvin21]

jewfish, as soon as they feel weight they'll let go hit them hard to set the hook

[savit]

Thank you dirvin21. Will try next time as well. Just wondering - would circle hooks (obviously no striking), or EZY rig (running sinker is not good here due to strong current) or bait runner reel will improve the catch rate in such case? Or, just hitting them hard is more than enough?

Edited October 4, 2016 by savit

[Guest Guest123456789]

If you got a few small bites then a run my money is on stingray. Bigger fish and sharks tend to gulp the bait not nibble. But we will never know for sure.

I like to tighten the drag right up and hold the rod. That way I'm not worried about a big fish pulling my rod out of the holder and I get better hook up rates as I don't give the fish a chance to spit the bait. I can also have the sinker on the sand and my bait up off the sea floor, I find I catch less sharks and rays this way.

Otherwise an ezy rig or crane swivel to a size 3 star sinker is good to let the fish take line before you set the hook when rod is in holder. Your braid to fluro knot could get damaged though by the ezy rig so I would either run a metre or more fluro leader connected to a swivel (you can tie braid to a swivel using a 10 turn uni knot) or use mono as your main line.

Circle hook for rod holder and ezy rig but I prefer octopus hook when drag tightened up. My preference anyway, hope this helps.

[savit]

Thanks flatheadluke. I usually fish with tightened drag and hold the rod as well and this was my last time. When do you strike for bigger fish - if you do not give a chance the fish to spit the bait?

I prefer swivel (with short light line to the sinker ) instead of EZY rig due to the same mentioned reason. It's relatively shallow area, so hard to raise the bait above the bottom/sinker unless very short leader. I used to fish baits with mono at night - less issues with tangling, however harder to keep the bottom (due to current) and harder to set hook and feel the bites.

[Guest Guest123456789]

No worries.

With a slab of bait, I'd strike when you feel the fish tug at your line.

I prefer braid over mono too for the reasons you mentioned plus a few others. I use a 12 foot rod, 10pbs braid mainline connected to swivel, then a 2 metre 15lbs fluro paternoster rig with a crane swivel connecting a size 3 star sinker. Top loop is a small red and white halco popper. Bottom loop a salted whole pilchard on a gang hook.

How shallow is the gutter you're fishing? Personally I like deep gutters where the shore is more than 20 degrees sloping.

[sam bros]

Hi Savit

Just thought I'd share my opinions

Judging from your rig your targeting jewfish and/or sharks. I've been targeting jews in the surf for a several years.

What jews do, is that they grab onto the bait and if they feel resistance then they will spit it out. If you have your drag set tightly and strike on the first tug, then you will just pull the bait (and hooks) out of the mouth.

You always have to give time for the fish to take in the bait. My suggestion is back off your drag to just enough so that surf/current doesn't take any line.

Let the fish run with the bait for 5-10 secs and then tighten up the drag and strike.

Also using circles will help with hook ups. I always use 2 snelled 7/0 gamakatsu circle hooks with my slab baits.

Again the same principle applies, have your drag relatively loose and once the fish starts running, wait a couple seconds and tighten up the drag and apply pressure.

Hope that helps,

Sam

[savit]

No worries.

With a slab of bait, I'd strike when you feel the fish tug at your line.

I prefer braid over mono too for the reasons you mentioned plus a few others. I use a 12 foot rod, 10pbs braid mainline connected to swivel, then a 2 metre 15lbs fluro paternoster rig with a crane swivel connecting a size 3 star sinker. Top loop is a small red and white halco popper. Bottom loop a salted whole pilchard on a gang hook.

How shallow is the gutter you're fishing? Personally I like deep gutters where the shore is more than 20 degrees sloping.

Flatheadluke, Thank you again for the suggestions and your rig explanations. I understand that with that long 2m leader and deep gutter you can raise the bait above the bottom. I used a surf popper on light leader and it tangled each time with main leader if the bait was in the water for a while, so I just removed surf popper until I find a better solution.What gang hook size do you use?

I fish 95% time at night however I am not good at reading beaches for gutters at night as I had a looong break with surf/beach bait fishing. If I locate a deeper hole at night, I will stick to it.

[savit]

Hi Savit

Just thought I'd share my opinions

Judging from your rig your targeting jewfish and/or sharks. I've been targeting jews in the surf for a several years.

What jews do, is that they grab onto the bait and if they feel resistance then they will spit it out. If you have your drag set tightly and strike on the first tug, then you will just pull the bait (and hooks) out of the mouth.

You always have to give time for the fish to take in the bait. My suggestion is back off your drag to just enough so that surf/current doesn't take any line.

Let the fish run with the bait for 5-10 secs and then tighten up the drag and strike.

Also using circles will help with hook ups. I always use 2 snelled 7/0 gamakatsu circle hooks with my slab baits.

Again the same principle applies, have your drag relatively loose and once the fish starts running, wait a couple seconds and tighten up the drag and apply pressure.

Hope that helps,

Sam

Sam, thank you very much for the suggestions and explanation.

I would say - I am more interested in Jews , however I do not mind fighting something else heavy at the moment as a by catch (I need some change after a few years of chasing smaller bread and butter species).

A few questions please:

So, when using circles - you just tighten drag to apply pressure and the fish will self-hook up? Or, do you still strike with Gamakatsu Circles?

I have a collection of Mustad Demon Circles , will they do the job?

Do you use paternoster or different rig?

Will baitrunner such as 6500B make the life easier here? Or quick switching to the main drag may pull the circles out the fish mouth?

Thanks

[sam bros]

Sam, thank you very much for the suggestions and explanation.

I would say - I am more interested in Jews , however I do not mind fighting something else heavy at the moment as a by catch (I need some change after a few years of chasing smaller bread and butter species).

A few questions please:

So, when using circles - you just tighten drag to apply pressure and the fish will self-hook up? Or, do you still strike with Gamakatsu Circles?

I have a collection of Mustad Demon Circles , will they do the job?

Do you use paternoster or different rig?

Will baitrunner such as 6500B make the life easier here? Or quick switching to the main drag may pull the circles out the fish mouth?

Thanks

Yeah just apply increasing pressure and the hook will roll into the corner of the mouth

When you first start using circles, it is really hard to resist the temptation to stike.

I haven't used the mustard demon hooks but I assume they would do the same job.

I usually fish with my brother so what we do is that one of us uses a gang hooks and pillies to target salmon/tailor (to use as bait) and the other one uses 2 hook smelled rig with a slab bait (preferably tailor or salmon that we caught on the beach)

I always hold the rod, so I can feel any bites and am aware with what is happening with my line.

You bring up a good point with baitrunner style reels and circle hooks.

I use Penn spinfisher SSM which is a normal spin reel.

So I couldn't say if you could use circles with a bait runner

Hopefully another raider can help you out there.

Also on a side note try to fish a deep gutter if you are targeting jews.

Hope that helps

[savit]

Yeah just apply increasing pressure and the hook will roll into the corner of the mouth

When you first start using circles, it is really hard to resist the temptation to stike.

I haven't used the mustard demon hooks but I assume they would do the same job.

I usually fish with my brother so what we do is that one of us uses a gang hooks and pillies to target salmon/tailor (to use as bait) and the other one uses 2 hook smelled rig with a slab bait (preferably tailor or salmon that we caught on the beach)

I always hold the rod, so I can feel any bites and am aware with what is happening with my line.

You bring up a good point with baitrunner style reels and circle hooks.

I use Penn spinfisher SSM which is a normal spin reel.

So I couldn't say if you could use circles with a bait runner

Hopefully another raider can help you out there.

Also on a side note try to fish a deep gutter if you are targeting jews.

Hope that helps

Thank you, sam bros.

Just finished reading 7-page 'jewfish tactics' on the forum to avoid asking already answered questions. Many men - many minds. The range of suggestions/used techniques is really wide: Rods - from 1kg to 15 kg. Mainline - from 3lb to 50 lb. Hooks - from 1/0 to 10/0. Fish with locked drag / let it run. Tide matters / tide does not matter. Bait size matters / bait size does not matter. Fish deeper / Fish shallows. Use fresh bait / Use soft bait.

I went fishing again last weekend at night. Analysed the shoreline and identified the potential gutter. When I came closer - wave action and presence of 2 fishos confirmed my thoughts. This time I was fishing with light drag setting (hoping for the fish run again) - a new problem appeared - tangles near sinker/bait/leader have increased, so I have to change somehow the rig or to fish with tighter drag next time. Next time I will try again circle hooks (No strike 'itching' for me whether it is in hand or rod holder, however have not fished with circles for a while).

I did not catch anything - the other 2 fishos very likely finished with the same results as I saw them only changing the baits.

[sam bros]

Yep

There is alot of varying opinions on jew fishing

You just need to keep putting in the hours till you find what works for you

The amount of donuts I have gotten before I caught my first Jew is very high.

But all those donuts become worth it when you see that silver ghost come in through the waves

Just on you tangles, it could be that you haven't rigged your bait properly causing it to spin around and tangle.

Also are you using mono or fluro leader, I find fluoro to be more stiff and thus cause less tangles.

[Guest Guest123456789]

The other possible cause for the tangles is the drag being set too light when retrieving your line. With a big heavy sinker, you might be winding against the drag when retrieving the rig. You can tell by looking st your spool as you wind in, if its moving you need to tighten it up before winding back in:

[savit]

Just on you tangles, it could be that you haven't rigged your bait properly causing it to spin around and tangle.

Also are you using mono or fluro leader, I find fluoro to be more stiff and thus cause less tangles.

The other possible cause for the tangles is the drag being set too light when retrieving your line. With a big heavy sinker, you might be winding against the drag when retrieving the rig. You can tell by looking st your spool as you wind in, if its moving you need to tighten it up before winding back in:

Thank you Guys.

Currently I am using 50lb mono leader with 2 snelled hooks (4/0 and 6/0). 4/0 was easily straightened recently by 1m port jackson. I want to make several 2 hook rigs with 50 or 60 lb stiffer fluoro leader and hooks in 8/0 - 10/0 range. Top - circle hook and bottom - normal hook and see how it goes. A challenge for me is good reliable knots for thick leader.

I am using 4 oz sinker, not sure if I should 6 oz one.

The sinker/bait tangles were most likely due to low tension on the line as occasional strong wave kicked large bait and pushed extra line from the reel set on light drag . I did not have these issues common in the past as I fished same rig with stronger tension. However I had to test light tension/drag as I want to be able to leave safely 14ft rod in rod holder at night while I am catching fresh bait. So probably I will set a stronger drag next time and see how it goes.

Ideally, once issue with tangles resolved - I want to add a short line with surf popper or smaller hook for small pests.