foolforjesus

Catch and Release Fishing

Recommended Posts

Hi @foolforjesus 

The survival rates are not 100% for C&R unfortunately 

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fishing/recreational/fishing-skills/catch-and-release

I agree with you in regards to pain, I've seen no irrefutable proof to show fish do or don't feel pain. Like yourself I have studied fish closely in order to catch them, and based on my experiences I believe they are very complex animals. They're cunning, affected by water temperatures, are creatures of habit, have memories, a strong sense of smell, excellent eyesight, many are social (think how they herd baitfish). They really are beautiful, sophisticated creatures. Based on this I personally think they of course do  feel pain and also experience trauma. But it's a theory, I have no proof other than my own experiences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely they feel pain. I think were starting to drift into a moral minefield. Fishing is a form of hunting after all, at some point pain and death have to enter the equation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mike89 said:

 

Do you guys speak up when you see others taking what you personally consider to be too many? What about illegal catches (undersize or protected)?

I feel that's for the authorities to deal with, and the person already knows what they are doing is wrong and will most likely be caught eventually.

What do you guys think?

I'll tell em, definitely not going to fight about it,  very unlikely to actually kick the bucket in. If it seems they can be educated I'll try and educate. But then I tell people to take their crap or put it in bin when they leave their rubbish everywhere at the park. It feels better to do something than nothing.

Why will they most likely be caught? How many undersized fish have you caught since you last had a visit from fisheries? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raymondo said:

Surely they feel pain. I think were starting to drift into a moral minefield. Fishing is a form of hunting after all, at some point pain and death have to enter the equation. 

Agreed you can't hunt an animal without being violent in some form. If you agree the animal suffers the question then becomes how much do they suffer and do my motives justify the suffering? The answers can't be quantified so we each need to make a judgement and decision ourselves as best we can. I really don't think there is a clear wrong or right answer on this one, it's really up to the individual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, flatheadluke said:

Agreed you can't hunt an animal without being violent in some form. If you agree the animal suffers the question then becomes how much do they suffer and do my motives justify the suffering? The answers can't be quantified so we each need to make a judgement and decision ourselves as best we can. I really don't think there is a clear wrong or right answer on this one, it's really up to the individual.

I regularly live bait , so in moral terms Im a heartless monster. I also release the majority of my catch but this by no means equals itself out. I mainly fish for sport which when I stop and think about it is quite cruel. But Its the only activity I do that still gets me excited like a little kid, and I guess this is a privilege of being higher up the food chain. Thats probably the best word to use for how we approach our past time, Privilege . Treat it as such and all is well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To give you my 2 cents worth on the moral dilemma associated with fishing, I kind of look at it this way.

I'm a Christian, which you may have guessed by my name lol.

Back in the day, the disciples and even Jesus fished. They would net fish, and as far as I can tell, they would bring the fish onto the boat, and they would die.

Now I could be wrong, but I don't think they used priests, ice slurrys, or spikes to dispatch the fish.

Fish back then equalled food.

Obviously times have progressed into what we now know as modern day recreational fishing, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, we could be over analysing this area of catch and release fishing.

Yes, I'm sure it's not fun for a fish to be hooked in the mouth, and brought into this tug of war, but then again maybe it is?

To me personally, it doesn't feel morally wrong to catch fish, and furthermore to let them go.

At the end of the day, regardless of whether you're taking the fish home for dinner, or sending them on their way to fight another day, respect the fish, respect the environment, look after what we have so that its there for the future, and it continues to thrive for generations to come.

Edited by foolforjesus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Food for thought...If you look at course match fishing in the UK for example, 100% catch and release.

Barbel & Chub fishing on the prestigious rivers of the UK, 100% catch and release.

UK Carp fishing, 100% catch and release.

In relatively small lakes, these fish go on to get caught time and time again.

Pike fly fishing in Sweden for example, Tasmanian Highland Lakes Trout fishing, or offshore Marlin fishing...99% catch and release fishing.

To me this strongly suggests fish recover well from catch and release fishing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, foolforjesus said:

At the end of the day, regardless of whether you're taking the fish home for dinner, or sending them on their way to fight another day, respect the fish, respect the environment, look after what we have so that its there for the future, and it continues to thrive for generations to come.

I have been watching this thread as a fisho and of course a site moderator. 

Imo, the statement above says it all. 

Cheers scratchie!!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came upon a radio station interviewing a pro fish life anti recreation fishing guy. He was extreme and compared fish to mammals etc and said he related to fish and more people should. He became upset when a fish in a fish tank died.....We have three fish tanks as kid is into it. Fish in tanks just die, it's more annoying than sad for us. He was the representative of this growing movement. This crowd do seem to be extreme and they are very passionate. 

(I have to say, fish who die in tanks seem to have an awful slow death. Fish that get picked on by other fish until they die have an excruciating death. Fish are heartless. 

My belief is that most fishes mouths are hard and when hooked where we want the hook to be, probably don't feel a lot of pain (This is not a fact, just an opinion). When you foul hook a fish I do feel for it, that has to hurt there is no doubt in my mind. It is impossible to fish without causing some pain and distress as it is to harvest any meat from any animal. Or to harvest any food source for that matter. 

I dispatch my fish or I put them in a slurry. No end is a good end but it is the best I can do for them. The Ocean is a cruel and totally wild place with carnivores and predators everywhere. The majority of fish when they meet the end naturally don't have a better ending then when they meet me.....well I don't think they do and I have spent many hundreds of hours diving and spear fishing. This helps me justify fishing for the table. I also believe that the fish that end up in my Esky have a better ending than any fish that ends up on a trawler. I have not got a problem catching fish for the table. I follow the rules and treat all life with respect. 

I used to do a lot of spearfishing and there is no more of a humane way to fish than this. POW!! and then you break it's neck. Done and you only shoot what you want so no waste. I am getting older now and more self preserving. Spearfishing was once a mad passion of mine but as I said the Ocean is a wild place full of heartless predators. I prefer fishing these days. 

Had a great session a couple of weeks ago catching monster Salmon 40m deep on light gear. Was truly awesome and total madness, I normally keep Salmon for the smoker but this trip everyone was released unharmed. Felt great and was a lot of fun. I have not done this with Snapper but I would like to one day have a big Snapper session as a catch and release. 

I have been thinking about changing the size limit of snapper on my boat and after reading this  thread I have officially changed the snapper size limit on my boat to 35cm. A text has gone out to the crew. It's the only thing that really makes me pause and cringe is when a wee squire comes aboard and stays aboard. 

The other thing I have been doing recently is trying to cut down my purchases of bait from the shop. I try to catch a few slimies or squid at every opportunity and freeze them. The Pilchards are all caught with trawlers, so for me it kind of contradicts the claim that I the recreational fisherman are causing less impact on the environment. How can  that be true If I were to go through 2 kilos of pilchards every trip. Don't get me wrong I still do buy them when I don't have my own source of bait for cubing with etc but I do try. I also try to fish lures and jigs as much as possible to avoid bait which has been caught using a trawler. 

Has my catch rate dropped from moving to lures over bait. Yes. It has. But fishing has become more technical and more of a challenge. It's a different experience and one I now prefer. Making the change was hard though. I seem to own a lot more rods and reels since making the change as well, it has been an expensive transition but well worth it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, recurve said:

The Pilchards are all caught with trawlers, so for me it kind of contradicts the claim that I the recreational fisherman are causing less impact on the environment. How can  that be true If I were to go through 2 kilos of pilchards every trip. Don't get me wrong I still do buy them when I don't have my own source of bait for cubing with etc but I do try. I also try to fish lures and jigs as much as possible to avoid bait which has been caught using a trawler. 

Compared to the thousands of tonnes caught for CATFOOD!I would maintain that what we catch and use is miniscule compared to a whole lot of other problems!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree, my wife feeds our two cats sardines and pilchard Whiskers and the horrible things gobble them up. You can't win but you can try and be better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not see how the trawlers impact most Australian customers (excluding fishos) : Most of the fish in large supermarkets is already imported unless it is some painted farmed trout or salmon. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey fool for Jesus,

What did JC do when he had the disciples cast the net on the sea of  galilee. Don't remember them into catch and release. Just a musing,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@recurve you make a good point, living in the ocean would be very tough, these fish would hunt and be hunted every day and often be sick, injured, starving, tired etc. We humans are comparatively very soft, someone pulling us out of the water by a hook through our mouths would be incredibly traumatic. For a fish though, yes it wouldn't be pleasent, but they would be so battle hardened I doubt it would be anywhere near the most traumatic experience of their lives or something they wouldn't 100% recover from quickly. Unless of course they're suffering from barotrauma, been gut hooked or handled poorly.

Edited by flatheadluke
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, flatheadluke said:

@recurve you make a good point, living in the ocean would be very tough, these fish would hunt and be hunted every day and often be sick, injured, starving, tired etc. We humans are comparatively very soft, someone pulling us out of the water by a hook through our mouths would be incredibly traumatic. For a fish though, yes it wouldn't be pleasent, but they would be so battle hardened I doubt it would be anywhere near the most traumatic experience of their lives or something they wouldn't 100% recover from quickly. Unless of course they're suffering from barotrauma, been gut hooked or handled poorly.

I totally agree. Fish have a daily objective of not being eaten - it's a pretty tough life out there! When handled well fish returned to the water recover very quickly. I don't imagine they might have any long-term 'trauma' associated with being captured.

An update on the topic of catch and release: somewhat inspired by this topic, this morning I decided to release two nice 30cm+ luderick from the keeper net as I currently have two in the fridge awaiting consumption. I normally would keep most blackies I catch but remembering the general theme in this topic of not ever taking more than you need I opened up the bag and let 'em free. They swam off good and strong!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, letsgocrabbing said:

Hey fool for Jesus,

What did JC do when he had the disciples cast the net on the sea of  galilee. Don't remember them into catch and release. Just a musing,

 

Hi Mate,

Yes that's what I was referring to in one of my earlier comments.

I'm pretty sure too catch and release wasn't on the agenda back then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mike89 said:

I totally agree. Fish have a daily objective of not being eaten - it's a pretty tough life out there! When handled well fish returned to the water recover very quickly. I don't imagine they might have any long-term 'trauma' associated with being captured.

An update on the topic of catch and release: somewhat inspired by this topic, this morning I decided to release two nice 30cm+ luderick from the keeper net as I currently have two in the fridge awaiting consumption. I normally would keep most blackies I catch but remembering the general theme in this topic of not ever taking more than you need I opened up the bag and let 'em free. They swam off good and strong!

Mate, Awesome to read this!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fishing my local on Saturday evening, I caught a very healthy 5lb Rainbow Trout.

This being the only fish for the session between 5 anglers...Not good.

Over the past 4-5 years, unfortunately this particular fishery has declined in the quantity and average size of fish you can expect to catch.

My best guess for the reasons why it has declined, is over fishing with a very small percentage of catch and release being applied.

For these reasons, I release every trout I catch now, with many many going back healthy and strong.

As I was walking out, an angler had caught two 2lb Rainbows, having dispatched them both.

He mentioned that he was giving the fish to his neighbours.

Now whilst this is a legal capture, which is fine, I do however have an issue with this mentality.

This approach, taking everything you can, has without a doubt in my mind, impacted this fishery enormously.  

If we want to keep catching trophy fish, certainly in small Trout fisheries, there has to be a healthy level of catch and release being practised.

 

1.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether a fish has a hard or soft mouth is irrelevant to a fish feeling pain.The most recent very detailed scientific studies say they do not feel pain. That's because they do not have the nerve structure, the nerve receptors, that transmit what we know as pain to the brain. This isn't "I think" stuff, it's the actual structure of their bodies which does not allow feeling pain.

The "scientific" study most commonly quoted by anti-fishos has been discredited because the "researcher" who admitted to an agenda, used bee stings on fish's lips to "prove" they felt pain because they became distressed after the sting. However the fish were not feeling pain, they were reacting to being injected with a venom and the venom moving though their bodies.

Of course fish do become stressed by long fights, poor handling etc and I suppose there's a moral argument about distressing an animal. . 

I hope far more slot limits are introduced. Release small fish which have not had a chance to become sexually mature, release the big fish which are breeders and have proved they are "the fittest", and keep a few mid sized fish. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, bombora said:

Whether a fish has a hard or soft mouth is irrelevant to a fish feeling pain.The most recent very detailed scientific studies say they do not feel pain. That's because they do not have the nerve structure, the nerve receptors, that transmit what we know as pain to the brain. This isn't "I think" stuff, it's the actual structure of their bodies which does not allow feeling pain.

The "scientific" study most commonly quoted by anti-fishos has been discredited because the "researcher" who admitted to an agenda, used bee stings on fish's lips to "prove" they felt pain because they became distressed after the sting. However the fish were not feeling pain, they were reacting to being injected with a venom and the venom moving though their bodies.

Of course fish do become stressed by long fights, poor handling etc and I suppose there's a moral argument about distressing an animal. . 

I hope far more slot limits are introduced. Release small fish which have not had a chance to become sexually mature, release the big fish which are breeders and have proved they are "the fittest", and keep a few mid sized fish. 

Hi Bombora,

Good info Mate.

If you have a link to this information, that would great.

Cheers,

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris, go to my link above it has all the info you need

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether a fish has a hard or soft mouth is irrelevant to a fish feeling pain.The most recent very detailed scientific studies say they do not feel pain. That's because they do not have the nerve structure, the nerve receptors, that transmit what we know as pain to the brain. This isn't "I think" stuff, it's the actual structure of their bodies which does not allow feeling pain.

The "scientific" study most commonly quoted by anti-fishos has been discredited because the "researcher" who admitted to an agenda, used bee stings on fish's lips to "prove" they felt pain because they became distressed after the sting. However the fish were not feeling pain, they were reacting to being injected with a venom and the venom moving though their bodies.

Of course fish do become stressed by long fights, poor handling etc and I suppose there's a moral argument about distressing an animal. . 

I hope far more slot limits are introduced. Release small fish which have not had a chance to become sexually mature, release the big fish which are breeders and have proved they are "the fittest", and keep a few mid sized fish. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for repost above. Meant to say yep check out PaddyT's link further up. It's all there. Every fisho should read this study wrap up. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Chris, go to my link above it has all the info you need

Ahh, Cheers mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      64,402
    • Total Posts
      514,613