Saddleback Syndrome? (Lordosis)

[Holls]

Hope I have the right section: Over the last year or so, I've been catching bream in Burrill Lake with what has been ID'd as Saddleback Syndrome. I thought it was a Queensland issue, but seems to have crept south. Anybody know anything about this? (Photo is of a fish that was frozen, but you can clearly see the deformity in the dorsal fin.) Thanks.

[Blackfish]

Ok, Ive asked the boffins down in the lab and they say

Quote "Its called "Lordosis" and basically a forward (Downward in fish) curvature of the spine. Morwong, Drummer, bream etc have all been caught in this condition.The spline and Ptergiophores (Bones at the base of the dorsal fin) are intact and fully formed"

I had to ask as I'm not that clever but did know in most cases not a injury.

Thanks Boffins.

[Green Hornet]

I read a report on this quite some time back which stated it was some kind of disease that caused the problem, not nets.

 

[Holls]

23 hours ago, seasponge said:

Caught quite a few in the Hawkesbury like that. Heard the net story before, but don't know if that's true or not.

 

Net story has been disproved, and it's not from another fish bite. It's a deformity from something in the water - but they're not sure what (heavy metals, pollution, run-off??). You can eat the fish tho. But I've never heard of the syndrome being so far south of Sydney??  Anyone caught one in other waters down this way?

[lillie]

I have been told its an injury from a net, where they have escaped.

[ARC H]

i have caught a bream like that 

thought it was from another fish

[seasponge]

Caught quite a few in the Hawkesbury like that. Heard the net story before, but don't know if that's true or not.

 

[Blairy]

I reckon the jockey is too heavy

 

[HenryR]

21 hours ago, Holls said:

Net story has been disproved, and it's not from another fish bite. It's a deformity from something in the water - but they're not sure what (heavy metals, pollution, run-off??). You can eat the fish tho. But I've never heard of the syndrome being so far south of Sydney??  Anyone caught one in other waters down this way?

I had to dig to find this pic (and be sure I wasn't fabricating memories). Smiths Creek, Hawkesbury, September 2016.

 

footnote:
In my ignorance, I imagined something must have bitten a chunk out of it's back and that it'd somehow survived. Now I know.

I've learned lots of good and interesting stuff from Fishriader - thanks Holls!

Edited June 16, 2017 by HenryR
.. it's Smiths Creek, not Smith Creek ...

[Holls]

21 hours ago, HenryR said:

I had to dig to find this pic (and be sure I wasn't fabricating memories). Smiths Creek, Hawkesbury, September 2016.

 

footnote:
In my ignorance, I imagined something must have bitten a chunk out of it's back and that it'd somehow survived. Now I know.

I've learned lots of good and interesting stuff from Fishriader - thanks Holls!

Yes, snapper are known to be affected as well. Apparently snapper breed at sea but close to the shore, and their spawn, drifting with the currents can end up in estuaries and lakes where the juveniles stay. I've caught some legal sized snapper in Burrill Lake. (Here's a pic)

[Regan]

On 6/15/2017 at 4:59 PM, Holls said:

Net story has been disproved, and it's not from another fish bite. It's a deformity from something in the water - but they're not sure what (heavy metals, pollution, run-off??). You can eat the fish tho. But I've never heard of the syndrome being so far south of Sydney??  Anyone caught one in other waters down this way?

i am going with holls

i personally dont think it has been bitten by another fish or the net story

[Trailcraft43]

I have caught a few like that over the years n i thought they were old healed live bait hook injuries. 

[PelagicQuest]

Caught a bream with this syndrome tonight at Warilla beach thought it was nets or from another fish.

[Yowie]

Holls, the way to check it out is to carefully fillet the fish to find out if the backbone is deformed.

Bream and especially smaller reddies will by attacked by larger fish. Larger tailor will attack smaller reddies, as I have had quite a number with bite marks out of them, especially the tail section. Have caught a few tailor that have attacked small reddies I have hooked, or pulled up the reddies with a tailor chewing on the reddie's rear end.

Large flatties will attack bream.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Yowie

[GreyNurse]

Interesting condition, this Lordosis. I'll have to read up on it. I wonder why the dorsal fin disappears over the affected area? I'll come back here with an answer if I find out.

 

Cheers,

Nursie

[nutsaboutfishing]

Found this on the cause of Lordosis

Vertebral anomalies have been found in various kinds of fish stocks and wild populations. Vertebral deformities like scoliosis (abnormal lateral curvature), lordosis (excessive inward curvature), kyphosis (excessive outward curvature) and ankylosis (abnormal stiffening and immobility of joint due to fusion of bones), though rare, but have been recorded for many species of teleosts. The causes of these have been ascribed to hazardous effects of environmental contamination, scarcity of nutrients, oxygen deficiency, sudden changes in temperature, water current, mutation, inbreeding, parasitic infestation and mechanic trauma, attack from predators etc.

 

I think the actual  cause is they just don't know

[Yowie]

As I said earlier, the fish needs to be filleted to determine if there is any deformity in the bone structure, or if the dorsal bones have been chewed off. The best way to tell.

I caught a few tailor many years ago with what appeared to be a deformity of the backbone, and when filleted, the backbone was actually deformed and curved a bit.

Bream with those bits missing along the dorsal fins, when filleted actually had the dorsal fins chewed off (obviously from a bite from a larger fish) and the backbone appeared perfect. Have only caught a few bream with a missing section of dorsal fin, and do not remember ever finding the backbone to be deformed.

No doubt some fish have imperfections in the bone structure, like humans, caused by other factors apart from mechanical injury (eg. collision with a boat), or bites from bigger fish. Fish swim in polluted waters at times, and there is no escaping toxic water when it spills into the ocean and rivers.

I can speak with some experience, as I have caught and filleted fish for something approaching 60 years.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Yowie

[zmk1962]

Adding to this topic. Caught yesterday off Blueys Beach. Definitely no visible beach pollution but the fingerlings may have come out of the lakes around here. 
Do fish stay with the same school of fingerlings for life? Catching two fish from the same school with same issue leads you to think it’s genetic….but if they hang around in the same school all their life it could be environmental. 
cheers Zoran 

 

[Yowie]

Hard to say Zoran as to why 2 fish both have a missing section in the same location. Was there any deformity in the bone structure around the missing piece?

I could not say if bream would be staying with the same school for a long time. I have seen schools of bream, small numbers and numbers over 100 fish, moving in a general area, but could not say if the schools split into small numbers then moved to different locations over time. I have also seen bream in shallow water either singularly or in 2's and 3's, usually the larger bream, whereas the smaller bream tend to school together.

The biggest school of fish I saw, as a kid, was sea mullet in Lake Illawarra (spring time). The school was on the ocean side of the road bridge, and probably out near the entrance to the lake, and a continuous stream of fish, about 3 foot wide and 3 foot deep, swimming up towards the main body of the lake. Non stop mullet, not kidding if I said a million fish (well, probably a bit less than that) For those of you that know the lake, that is a long distance for a continuous school of fish.

Once up into the lake, I would imagine these fish would have split into different locations, due to the large size of the lake. At a guess (autumn time) the fish would be gathering at a similar time to head out to sea and spawn further north.

The only way to determine that would be through a tagging program.

Bit hard to answer this now Zoran, as you have killed and eaten the scientific experiment. 🤣 Hope they tasted nice.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Yowie