Leader material

[Aardvarking]

This is just one part of the whole debate, but the idea of mono having better knot strength and fluoro having better abrasion makes them useful for different fish.

Fluoro is good for fish like flathead, that aren't likely to break the line by force, but with chew through the line with their abrasive mouths, and when fishing in shallow water where the line is going to be rubbed up against rocks. This allows you to use weaker strength fluoro than mono in those situations.

However, when dealing with fish like kings that are more likely to break the line by pulling than they are by biting, the added knot strength allows you to use weaker strength mono than fluoro in that situation.

Imo it is foolish to declare yourself a mono fisherman or a fluoro fisherman. My philosophy has always been to use the bare minimum line strength to reel in the fish, in order to minimise the line diameter, which will increase your hit rate. So you have to choose the appropriate line type for the situation, not just in general.

Then of course you factor in the refractive index of fluoro, which is neither here nor there in terms of it's practical effectiveness. I would say in crystal clear water it has a noticeable impact, otherwise a minimal one.

[Guest Guest123456789]

20 hours ago, Jewhunter said:

I use flouro, & catch more fish with it. Nitlon is good, Yo Zuri HD Hard pink is my fave.

Mono has it's place in certain situations, e.g when you need more stretch & definitely in heavier line classes.

I'm not sure I've seen any bream or bass comp winning fisherman using mono leader, they seem to be all using flouro.

They must all be wrong!

Yeah and the best surfers wear $70 board shorts from China that cost $2 to make and they help them win world titles ? 

[JonD]

1 hour ago, flatheadluke said:

Yeah and the best surfers wear $70 board shorts from China that cost $2 to make and they help them win world titles ? 

 

My daughter has sponsors and gets extremely expensive wetsuits for free as well as other gear, she also gets sponsored by Cootacraft boats and fishes from their top of the line boats. Her favorate wetsuits are from a non sponsor and used outside of comps these suits are about 1/3rd the price of her sponsors and she catches far more fish from our own boat.

If people are happy using fluro then certainly go for it, there's nothing like feeling confident in the gear you use. Catching fish is more about time spent on the water ( local knowledge) learning your target species than how much money you spend. 

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by JonD

[Flickn Mad]

I caught a fish on mono once so it must be the best!

[TheFoosh]

Berkley Vanish is far from the best fluoro leader out there. No wonder people who tried Vanish claimed that it broke easily etc etc. 

I've never had knot strength problems with fluoro ever and I fish light (4lb or 6lb) almost exclusively. Find a good quality brand such as Nitlon or Yamatoyo. Those who find it breaks easily due to pressure/impact would be running short leaders. Try running 2.5m+ of leader and watch how much of a difference it makes. You can run a tighter drag and use the stretch more effectively.

I'd never want to be running mono leader around any sort of structure.

[bluefin]

I use an FG knot and a blood knot. I use fluro for it's abrasion resistance from 4 lb to 40 lb.   With  my finesse fishing I use expensive fluro, Ocea is good. Off the beach I use cheaper Black Magic. I also run a bite leader on my light line when targeting Flathead, which is most of the time, and Jew. 4 lb or 6 lb leader for casting and 20 c/m of  12 lb between it and the lure. Very effective. I wet my knots well with saliva, and test them all!  If the knot pulls up smoothly, it's a good one, if for any reason it is jerky, It's probably weaker! Recently I had Ocea 15 lb leader " shatter  "  after a vigorous cast. went to 20, no problem. Mono is my choice this summer for that reason. I want the reduced resistance in the surf from the smaller diameter.

JD do you feel that Fluro is more abrasion resistant?    Howard.

PS 12 lb seems not to wear at all on the Flat Head, never seem to need to re tie due to fraying, might try 10? am I game to go to

8 ? Probably not!!!  Caught about 14 on Monday, 3 in their mid 50's Lots around 34 c/m most on Zman curly tail in Motoroil. 4 and 6 lb braid.  Best jew I have caught, last year, on this gear was high 80's, 88 I think?  Keep your rods bent!

Edited September 12, 2017 by bluefin

[JonD]

I know this one has been done to death now but I just stumbled onto this quite by accident, it has some interesting results most of what most of us already suspected https://activeanglingnz.com/2016/01/04/the-fluorocarbon-myth/

By the way I use a PR knot for joining mono to braid but this isn't where you are likely to get breaks anyway.

I used to target jewfish from the Sydney shore while I lived up there and never got bitten off using plain berkley 50lb mono, many of these fish were over 20kg with the best going 24kg.

My daughter fishes 20lb mamoi mono from a 1000m spool for traces, though she hasn't yet hooked a big jew, she has had plenty of these smaller ones. What amazed me was landing a good sized tailor while jew fishing, not bad considering the hook was well down in the mouth (must of been luck) but not that lucky as that tailor ended up being bait for several more jews over the next few days!!!

 

 

[HenryR]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

I know this one has been done to death now but I just stumbled onto this quite by accident, it has some interesting results most of what most of us already suspected https://activeanglingnz.com/2016/01/04/the-fluorocarbon-myth/

 

Great article JonD,

Thanks for posting.

I'll admit to using fluorocarbon because ..... no good reason .... I just understood it to be the done thing.  You can't question everything in the world!

Amusingly, while reading the article, it occurred to me I've never even thought to put two bits of line under water and compare their visibility. Not definitive but a pretty simple test!

Even if it's right, myths busted and all, it sounds fluoro is an optimal choice for leaders intended to fend of abrasion. At least where the leader has a higher breaking strain than the main line because the fluoro would be (I'm assuming a bit here) unlikely to hit 'deformation point'. After a bit of soaking it seems that's even more the case because, then, nylon has got even softer.

Fluoro as a mainline tho ... hmmm?

Afterthought: anyone know if the deformation point is significantly below actual breakage for fluoro?

Edited September 14, 2017 by HenryR
the afterthought:

[Flickn Mad]

I am not big on conspiracy theories, and you can find a counter argument for just about any view on the net. You just have to look at the anti vaccination moorons.

i can't justify expensive Fluro. I use black magic tough trace for 40 to 300 pound and Berkeley vanish for the light stuff. 

FG knots and locked blood knots.

Just my expierience and I know I shouldn't but I usually use my teeth to cut lighter leader material and I recon vanish is harder to bite through than most nylon I have used.

Just a thought but if you are stretching your leaders to the point of "deformation" maybe you should upsize!

70cm salmon on 3pound braid and 6 pound vanish. 

5 kg stripped tuna on 4 pound braid and 8 pound vanish, plus plenty more.

seems to do the trick for me.

i recon any monofilament is susceptible to heat when tying knots so long tails plenty of lube and a bit of care and I rarely have an issue.

As has been said before what you are confident with will work best for you. 

[Jewhunter]

On 9/11/2017 at 3:13 PM, flatheadluke said:

Yeah and the best surfers wear $70 board shorts from China that cost $2 to make and they help them win world titles ? 

Too true mate.

As JonD said I reckon it's more about having confidence in what you use. Everything has it's place. I use both flouro & mono, but for different reasons & the fish I'm targeting. I'll always use long mono shock & main leaders for jew, whether it's bait or big lures. I always use mono when walking surface lures for bass or murray cod, as it floats & my lures work as they should, but I'll use flouro for more feel on the lighter stuff, whether it's small hardbods, plastics or blades. It's about being adaptable, open to ideas & liking what you're using.

So in imho both have their place. Use what ever catches YOU fish!

Edited September 14, 2017 by Jewhunter

[Flickn Mad]

On 11/09/2017 at 3:13 PM, flatheadluke said:

Yeah and the best surfers wear $70 board shorts from China that cost $2 to make and they help them win world titles ? 

What the hell has that got to do with fishing line!

my Colorado gets me to work but it ain't no Maserati.

[macca02]

I tend to use fluoro leaders upto around 20lb (pretty much all estuary and light beach).

Over 20lb i go back to mono - it knots much much better IMO in the larger diameter (the knots seem to pull down easier with less friction and lock better). Black Magic Tough Trace and Jinkai are the two i generally use in the 30lb+ leader size.

[Guest Guest123456789]

8 hours ago, Flickn Mad said:

What the hell has that got to do with fishing line!

my Colorado gets me to work but it ain't no Maserati.

The point is how marketing is used to get the consumer to over value items (t shirts, fishing line, energy drinks, watches, cars you name it).

Edited September 14, 2017 by Guest123456789
Typo

[Seajigger]

I use 20lb Black Magic mono if targeting salmon or taylor.

Everything else is 60lb Mono for the rocks. I usually put 3-4 meters of mono as a leader and tie it with an FG knot.

Have not had an issue yet.

Black Magic FTW

[Nolongeramember]

There is a new leader just released. It is 100% invisible.

Here it is below.

[Flickn Mad]

11 hours ago, Roylo said:

There is a new leader just released. It is 100% invisible.

Here it is below.

Ha Ha that a cracker! Looks good, any info on knot strength or price?

[Krispy !]

As mentioned above as long as you're confident in the gear you use then that's the main thing. Personally I exclusively use fluorocarbon and have never had an issue with knot strength, tying knots, line snapping more easily etc. Ive found it to make a huge difference especially targeting landbased kings. Ive fished side by side with people using mono and they haven't had a bite whilst ive caught a few kings. Again that could come to numerous other variables but simply, I haven't found fluro to reduce my catch rates, if anything ever since I started using it ive caught more and bigger fish than before I started using it. One memory that comes to mind was one session in the harbour last year, a school of kings follows up another guys live yakka as he retrieved it, they bumped it and stayed circling it for a while but none of them had a proper go at it, I casted a pillie cube in behind and it got taken within seconds, he was using some fat grey mono looked about 40lb, I was using 12lb fluro. Again there are a few other variables but I believe if he was using a clear line he would have atleast hooked up.

[savit]

Actually I have read  a plenty of times that fish feel the vibrations ( including those from casting/retrieving fishing lines ) using lateral lines. I.e. the thicker the line the better fish  can feel it even if it is clear.

I use mostly copolymer leaders. They are cheaper than fluoro and so far no complaints.

[Ledge]

On 18/09/2017 at 0:42 PM, Krispy ! said:

As mentioned above as long as you're confident in the gear you use then that's the main thing. Personally I exclusively use fluorocarbon and have never had an issue with knot strength, tying knots, line snapping more easily etc. Ive found it to make a huge difference especially targeting landbased kings. Ive fished side by side with people using mono and they haven't had a bite whilst ive caught a few kings. Again that could come to numerous other variables but simply, I haven't found fluro to reduce my catch rates, if anything ever since I started using it ive caught more and bigger fish than before I started using it. One memory that comes to mind was one session in the harbour last year, a school of kings follows up another guys live yakka as he retrieved it, they bumped it and stayed circling it for a while but none of them had a proper go at it, I casted a pillie cube in behind and it got taken within seconds, he was using some fat grey mono looked about 40lb, I was using 12lb fluro. Again there are a few other variables but I believe if he was using a clear line he would have atleast hooked up.

Hi Krispy,

Thanks for your input! I wonder if the fish would have hit the other guy's line if he was using 12lb mono... and whether it would have rejected yours if you were using 40lb fluoro. Based on what some of the other experienced fishos have said in this discussion, it seems line diameter plays a bigger part than material (at least, when comparing fluoro and mono).

But as you say, best to use what you feel most comfortable using.

[macman]

The great thing about fluoro leader is the abrasion resistance. When you are casting bream and bass lures into the snags all day, having that bit of extra resistance to nicks and scratches is worth the extra expense. The extra expense is bugger all by the way, I don't exactly go buying new leader very often. 

Matt

[Jewhunter]

On 9/19/2017 at 2:13 PM, macman said:

The great thing about fluoro leader is the abrasion resistance. When you are casting bream and bass lures into the snags all day, having that bit of extra resistance to nicks and scratches is worth the extra expense. The extra expense is bugger all by the way, I don't exactly go buying new leader very often. 

Matt

Very true mate. I can ite mono tags off with my teeth not a problem. Absolutely no chance with flouro.

There is another thing to consider with the cost thing. Flouro loses any of it's invisibility when it has nicks or scratches in it. The light refraction is actually amplified when it is compromised, so it's a lot more visible & should be changed when any damage is done, adding to it's expense. I still swear by it though.