bizzyb Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Hey all. Thanks for all your help so far, it's much appreciated. We are having issues getting the outboard started from cold. Once warmed up it's one click to start, but when it's cold it takes a good 5 minutes to finally ignite. Outboard has a 703 forward control, with a throttle advance but no choke. Fuel primer bulb is hard. After 10 to 20 tries we get a sputter but dies straight away. After another 5-10 attempts with a splutter each time we can finally can get it to catch by jaming on the throttle advance and giving it a good rev. I've checked the choke switch on the outboard and its in the upright position. I haven't watched it during start up tho to see if it advanced to on or not. Any thoughts on what the issue might be? Or how I could go about diagnosing it? At this time of the year the lbs are too flat out to bother with something like this plus I'd like to learn myself. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 On these older setups the choke is often with the key-turn, simply push the key in as you turn it. When you push the key in it should feel like its spring loaded, just push and turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I'm with JonD. When I first got my 2000 model, 115HP Johnson, the bloody thing flooded trying to get it started. My mechanic told me that I need to push the key in and turn holding it in as it is spring loaded. Now, it starts first or 2nd go every time. Don't even need the choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankS Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If the electric chock doesn't work when key pushed in, it may have a manual choke that you can activate at the motor itself, most outboards like choke to initially start. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 58 minutes ago, bizzyb said: Hey all. Thanks for all your help so far, it's much appreciated. We are having issues getting the outboard started from cold. Once warmed up it's one click to start, but when it's cold it takes a good 5 minutes to finally ignite. Outboard has a 703 forward control, with a throttle advance but no choke. Fuel primer bulb is hard. After 10 to 20 tries we get a sputter but dies straight away. After another 5-10 attempts with a splutter each time we can finally can get it to catch by jaming on the throttle advance and giving it a good rev. I've checked the choke switch on the outboard and its in the upright position. I haven't watched it during start up tho to see if it advanced to on or not. Any thoughts on what the issue might be? Or how I could go about diagnosing it? At this time of the year the lbs are too flat out to bother with something like this plus I'd like to learn myself. Thanks! I reckon even without choke it should still start fairly easily from cold. Definitely not after 5 minutes of trying, especially in this sort of weather. I would check the general condition of everything, starting with the spark plugs and fuel filters. When you say the bulb is hard, make sure it’s not just old and deteriorated and actually hard from fuel pressure. I would try getting someone to pump pressure on the bulb while you crank it over and see if that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 lift your engine canopy off and check to see if you have choke linkages..my old 60 had an electric solenoid that pulled the choke butterflies..my 90hp yammy has no choke butterflys at all ..I start mine alternating the throttle idle arm on and off..rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 No choke linkages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 you can see the vacant holes where choke butterflies normally are...closest to air inlet...rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyb Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 Thanks everyone. The fuel filter and plugs are practically brand new. The plugs do seem a bit 'richer' looking than normal, I'm not sure why, but they are not gummed up at all. The motor has an emergency starter valve and the manual suggests to open this before starting and then turn it off after its running. Given this is an emergency valve, and its in an almost impossible 'on water' position, there must be another solution. The ignition doesn't seem to have a press choke when turning the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyb Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 Actually , now that I think about it, it's actually easy enough to reach, I was just trying to take the photo while it was trimmed up and I was standing outside the boat haha. Still, who wants to sit at the boat ramp at 4am with the cowling off looking like a duffer starting his engine?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) One question. If you leave the engine for just a day or 2 is it still hard to start from cold or is it just when you leave it for a longer time? Edited December 9, 2017 by Hateanchors Spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyb Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 37 minutes ago, Hateanchors said: One question. If you leave the engine for just a day or 2 is it still hard to start from cold or is it just when you leave it for a longer time? Hmm...we've only been getting out in it every 6 weeks or so and not starting it in between times. Come to think of it, when we replaced the stat and impellor she fired up without much trouble. But that was the middle of the afternoon in full sun.... Still, it hadn't been running for a few weeks before that. I heard that the emergency valve is meant to slowly open as you crank over the ignition. Maybe it's sticky, or whatever is controlling it (solenoid or something) is not working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 hours ago, bizzyb said: I've checked the choke switch on the outboard and its in the upright position. I haven't watched it during start up tho to see if it advanced to on or not. Given you have spark and it eventually runs well - it sounds like you are not drawing enough fuel to start when cold and the carbies are dryer - which is the function of the choke. You said the choke is in the upright position when you had the cowl off. When the engine is cold, have someone hold the choke closed and see if it kicks over quicker. If it does then you have isolated the problem to choke activation mechanism. Also check your 1999 Yamaha model against the parts catalog (eg http://www.crowleymarine.com/yg/TW8448/yamaha-1999-yamaha-outboard-60hp) This 60hp model parts diagram shows a manual choke...the parts diagram for your model will help you isolate the issue. Zoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 bizzy does your carbies have choke butterflys..rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyb Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, rickmarlin62 said: bizzy does your carbies have choke butterflys..rick I'm pretty sure no, but I'll double check in the morning. From memory it looks like your pic. Izzy Edited December 9, 2017 by bizzyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 another possibility is your battery is too lower cranking amps .maybe try a different battery..ive had this problem before..rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolongeramember Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, rickmarlin62 said: another possibility is your battery is too lower cranking amps .maybe try a different battery..ive had this problem before..rick Yeah, I’m thinking it’s something other than a choke problem because it should still start pretty easily without it. It’s not that cold this time of year either. I’m thinking fuel is not getting from the tank to the engine properly after it has been sitting for a while, or 2 stroke oil build up inside. Do a test. Next time you get it started, let the engine sit for 2 days. It will be stone cold my then. Try starting it and if it starts easy then you know it’s not the choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 The purpose of a choke is to enrich the fuel supply at start up. Bizzyb hasn’t been on for a while to confirm if his motor has a choke but his last post mentioned it looked like ricks picture - no butterfly choke setup. He also said he is running a 703 remote control. So without a choke there must be another mechanism to deliver startup fuel enrichment. I googled Yamaha 703 remote and choke - it turns out there are three 703 remotes 1. Choke toggle switch 2. Choke on press of ignition key 3. No-choke for Yamaha prime start motors. I suspect bizzby has the prime start model. The prime start is an electrical heat driven needle valve and is mounted on top of the carbie. When cold the valve should be short opening the start fuel enrichment port. When hot the valve should be long closing that port. It sounds like bizzyb’s is stuck closed. Googling prime start Yamaha diagnosis shows quite a few simple procedures to test its operation. Cheers Zoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 cheers for that zoran....mine takes a bit to start when not used for a fortnite or so..i just have to make sure I prime my bulb really well...since putting new battery in its better also..rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 New battery could be giving your prime plus more juice !! But it may be on way out - looks a simple procedure to test it - remove it (2 bolts), measure length, put positive wire onto positive battery terminal wait a bit and measure length. You should see a change in length. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmarlin62 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 will test mine during week thanks...rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Back home now and able to work of laptop (better browsing than on iPhone). Here's a great clip on Yamaha Prime Start diagnosis and repair.... Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyb Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 15 hours ago, zmk1962 said: Back home now and able to work of laptop (better browsing than on iPhone). Here's a great clip on Yamaha Prime Start diagnosis and repair.... Z Wow, thanks Zoran. Yes, you are right, it's a prime start (as can be seen in the pic I posted, I have the red switch thingie) and there are no butterfly's or choke options on the remote. Looks like testing the pin is step one. Unfortunately I'm flat out now and won't get a chance to test before the boys take it away for 10 days over Xmas. Once I join up with them in the new year I'll be able to have a fiddle with it and see what I can find out. It will be a good test too since they will be out in it most days and that will give us an idea whether it's purely cold starting that's the problem, or because of sitting around for weeks without being used. Thanks again! I'll post back once I've had a chance to test. Keen to see the results of your test Rick. P.s. I've given the battery a full recharge and recondition (took 24hrs on a 12ah charger) but I haven't put it back on the boat yet. That may have an impact if low voltage impacts the pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raging Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 How good are the danga marine YouTube videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, raging said: How good are the danga marine YouTube videos ++++ 1,000,000 (I subscribe to his channel !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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