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Second Battery Suggestions needed


Sea Ranger

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1 hour ago, TSCTSC said:

Hi everyone. Interesting thread.

So is it better and less hassle to install a vsr instead of an 1,2,1+2, off isolator switch? I can imagine that I might forget to switch the isolator. And how much is the vsr compared to isolator?

As for dropping plates, is optima the best then? My dealer says marine century is just as good. Is that true?

Is there a way to mount the battery on the deck to reduce pounding to the battery?

Hi TSCTSC.... VSRs do not replace battery isolation switches they have separate functions. 

I run Century Marine batteries... a few months back I just retired a 10yo century battery... still working but boat mech was concerned about the structural integrity of the 10yo plastic casing - no experience with batteries that old.  

The battery that had a plate failure... was an AMARON  Marine battery. Long story short - boat was in for a service Saturday, battery 1 tested bad, I had a trip offshore planned the next day, service yard only had the AMARON battery left at the CCA I needed, I had it installed.   4yrs later it dropped a plate while planing at 4000rpm. When I checked it at home it had started to expanded like a puffer fish - I guess the 40amp charge from the motor charging circuit had to go somewhere - according to my mechanics I was very lucky the motor charging circuit, Voltage Regs or ECM weren't fried. SO with my particular motor, this is another consideration to run with 1+2 switched on ... there are more plates to spread the charge current across.... and why I have Battery 3.  

Cheers Z 

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8 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Hi Dave,

Thanks so much for your comments and the PM with your VSR specs.

I learnt something new from reading that...which is that some newer VSR set-ups come with a Dual Circuit Battery Switch - which keeps BOTH the starter and electronics circuits live at the same time but separate (ie they each run off their own battery)... and the VSR automatically charges one battery at a time, giving preference to the starter battery.  The dual circuit switch lets you isolate everything (turn everything off), run with both circuits active (but separate) or combine circuits to run everything of both batteries. 

All very handy and automated for every day operation and keeping both battery's charged. 

The only downside I can see to this set up is that it relies on both batteries being in a working condition.

So if you consider the scenario I described where you have a battery failure  (eg. one that has dropped a plate) with this set up you will either lose your electronics or drain the good battery if you combine the circuits. I know you say, that losing a battery would be the signal to call it and head back, but I fear I would not be able to start my motor at all if I combined the bad battery into the circuit and it dropped the combined circuit voltage to less than 8-10V (I posted before that some EFIs can have trouble priming the high pressure pump if voltage drops).

As I see it, to protect myself from this with your VSR set up, I would need to install additional battery isolation switches to be able to completely isolate one or the other of the batteries..so I can still combine circuits to get the electricity to where I need it - but keep the bad battery isolated.

I know catastrophic failure of a battery is a rare occurrence, but it has happened to me - with a 4yr old heavy duty marine battery - mounted at the stern where the vibrations and pounding are minimal.

Personally I have solved my battery charging issues with a trickle charge set up that I connect with one cable (mutli pin plug) when home, but if I was to install a VSR I'd probably go down the path that jeffb5.8 has installed... a VSR with a standard 1, 2, 1+2 battery isolator switch (with combined start and electronics circuit). I'd then have both batteries charging while on board and be able to choose any combination of batteries to operate from.

Note: with this set up since everything is sitting on the same electricity circuit, I have a large capacity suppressor installed to filter out spikes, engine and electric motor noise that might interfere with radios, sounders etc. Suppressors are standard car electronics stuff that has been around for years.

So net is, I don't think there is a right or wrong set up, but its a matter of understanding what you have, your boat/motor and its limitations. One is more automated (but is exposed in the rare case of catastrophic battery failure), the other is a bit more manual.

Cheers

Zoran

 

Hi Zoran,

Happy to help.....this is a really good topic.

Like you said, horses for courses "everyone has a preference" on how far they want to go with eliminating possibilities of break downs. So far, I'm happy with the system and I haven't had the bad luck you had once. Maybe that might happen one day as it could happen to me (knock on would it won't) but maybe it might not. 

Like you said, you have found a system that works for you and are happy with it. So, it is only sensible to stay with what you know. Like I have said before, I do keep a third battery (not connected) in the boat in case something like what happened to you, happens to me. Disconnect the faulty battery and connect the other battery....problem solved and done in 5mins. 

I found this topic really interesting as it's good to get everyone's opinions and ideas on this. I find batteries to be one of the major causes of breakdowns on our waterways.

Hopefully we can hook up one day out on the water and do some fishing together.....that way if one of us has a flat battery, the other can do the towing...... :P :D

Cheers

Dave

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52 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

Cheers Dave - I previously sent you a PM with my details -  we have 6 batteries between us on the water - it would really be a case of "shame on us" if we ended up with ALL being flat  !!!!   

 

I have 2 batteries & carry a jump starter battery pack - can I be a junior member of the club?

Edited by raging
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On 15/12/2017 at 10:15 AM, Fishop said:

From what I understand (sigma will need to confirm) the two work together.  You still want the isolator to disconnect your batteries from slowly draining if you leave your boat in the driveway for a couple of weeks between use.  The VSR's I have seen are around the 50-60 dollar mark so not a bank breaker at all.

Hi Fishop,

Apologies about the delay in answering your question....didn't see your post until now.

An isolator switch is completely different to a VSR. An isolator switch is a switch whereby your cables are hard wired to both your batteries. This allows you to switch between batteries, isolating one from the other PHYSICALLY/MANUALLY or combining (1+2) the two batteries together to give you enough power to start your engine in case your main battery is struggling to turn over the engine. 

A VSR, is an electronic device that regulates your current/power that runs through the positive cables to your batteries.

In layman's terms, it's like your power at home. You need a switch to turn power on or off on a 2/3/4 gang switch (this would be your isolator switch in a boat) but unlike house power that continually runs on 240V, batteries drain and charge, so, something needs to regulate the charging between the batteries and this is what a VSR does. When one battery gets fully charged, the VSR kicks in and switches the power to go to the other battery and back again. Hope this makes some sense.... :huh:

As far as when I have my boat parked in the driveway, I turn my switch to "OFF". This turns off ALL my power "OFF" on the boat. Absolutely nothing drains the batteries apart from it self draining itself, but if you attach a solar power trickle charger, that should keep the levels up. At the moment, I don't have a solar power trickle charger cause it got damaged a little while ago when we had some big winds. So, as I don't go out that often, before I do, I turn the key on and check the digital displays to see if they need  charging or not. If they do, I attach my C-Tek charger the night before and all good. Actually, I ran the engine a 2-3 weeks ago and forgot to turn off the switch. When I went to run it again a couple of days ago, it dropped from 12.7V to 11.9V....but it started 1st go.

Not sure which VSR you are reffering to (probably the Narva unit) but I have an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay). Not sure if there is any difference between them though cause I have never had a VSR model before. I will send you a link in a PM to what I bought and you might be able to tell us if there is any difference.

Cheers

Dave

Edited by Sigma
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1 hour ago, TSCTSC said:

Thanks. So I am getting a boat set up by the dealer with dual battery with an isolator. Any advice on how I should tell them to wire it or just leave it to them? 

 

Hi TSCTSC,

My recommendation would be that you ask the dealer mechanic what will be wired to Battery 1 and what will be wired to Battery 2. A good mechanic should wire your engine and Bilge pump to Battery 1 and the rest of the electronics to battery 2. Then again, you might have another preference. Don't leave it to the dealer cause my experience is that they will wire it what is easiest for their install. Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave 

Edited by Sigma
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21 hours ago, Sigma said:

Hi TSCTSC,

My recommendation would be that you ask the dealer mechanic what will be wired to Battery 1 and what will be wired to Battery 2. A good mechanic should wire your engine and Bilge pump to Battery 1 and the rest of the electronics to battery 2. Then again, you might have another preference. Don't leave it to the dealer cause my experience is that they will wire it what is easiest for their install. Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave 

Yes, I have a feeling that the mechanics would just do what is easiest rather than what is best for the customer although I wish that it would be the latter. In any case, I think I better specify just in case. Also, what batteries should I use for dual? Starting, hybrid or deep cycles? 

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4 hours ago, TSCTSC said:

Yes, I have a feeling that the mechanics would just do what is easiest rather than what is best for the customer although I wish that it would be the latter. In any case, I think I better specify just in case. Also, what batteries should I use for dual? Starting, hybrid or deep cycles? 

That would depend on your budget. Deep cycles ard better for running your electronics as they keep charge longer but they usually are more expensive. If the budget doesn't spread enough, maybe a hybrid as your engine starting battery and a Deep Cycle as your 2nd/electronics battery. Depending on how many electronics you will have running, I would get at least a deep cycle of 100 Ah (amp hours) for your electronics. Some might say it's too much and some might say it's not enough. Your mechanic can advise you but always get a litle bigger as batteries wiil deteriorate over time or you could attach additional electronics later and you want the battery to be able to accommodate that. Nothing worse than having to buy another battery cause you have now added a radio or live bait tank and it can't last you a fishing trip.

Hope this gave you some options

Cheers

Dave

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  • 1 month later...
25 minutes ago, TSCTSC said:

Seems that they are using two hybrids and will connect it in line. Not sure if that matters. 

As I understand it....

"In line" means that battery1 -ve is connected to battery2 -ve... and battery1 +ve is connected to battery2  +ve..... so both batteries are in-line with their polarity...delivering a 12V system but with the combined AMP rating of the two batteries (if they are both switched on at the same time) to the electrical system.

This is as opposed to "in-series" which means that battery1 -ve ( becomes the ground), battery1 +ve is connected to battery2 -ve, and battery2 +ve (is the live).... this delivers 12V+12V=24V system (infact it acts as one big 12plate 24V battery). Most recreational boats, starter motors, accessories etc are 12V so we don't typically have to worry about delivering 24V on our recreational craft.

Regarding Hybrid batteries. ... they are constructed to be able to consistently service a hi current draw load (eg outboard motor start) and then also service the slow drain load that you get by running lights etc all night. They are more expensive than say just "Start" batteries.

Personally, I have never bothered having anything on board but start batteries....I have found that as long as you keep them charged, or charge them ASAP...then they will last a long time (10yrs in my case). Consistently draining a start battery to dead flat will reduce its life span significantly... so weigh that against your type of fishing (will you be draining a battery flat consistently)  against the cost extra cost of a hybrid battery. 

Cheers

Zoran 

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6 minutes ago, raging said:

Seven hundred something. 730 I think.

Hmmm....that wouldn't be the Ah.

That would be the CCA (Cold Cranking Amps)...... strength of the battery at starting.

I have a 730CCA Century as well. Will check tomorrow to see if it's a "Pro" model.

Amp Hours is usually between 10 to around 100/120/150 Ah.....

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