How to fish Sydney harbor moorings for kingfish

[Miketheangler]

How do I fish the Sydney harbor moorings specifically for kingfish? What will the typical live bait rig be looking like for kingfish? Should it be on a float or a light sinker, padernosta vertically or casted out, trying to get my first kingfish this holiday.

 

[Mike89]

There are a couple of options that I would use targeting kings with live baits.

1. Use a float: use a largish float (go to the tackle store and tell them you need a float for kings) with a decent sized sinker to get your cast out and to balance your rig. Above the float you should have a stopper. My preferred depth would be around 3-4m with a trace from the swivel to a 4/0 beak hook (live bait hooks I find to be too thick and likely to kill your bait) of 60cm.

2. A sliding rig with a clip holding an 80g sinker (stars are good but you can also use a snapper lead). Your trace here will be slightly longer (a metre or just under). Again, a 4/0 beak hook.

As for rigging your livies, you can pin them through the top lip (this will make it less likely you will kill them when you reel them back in), in the back on the fleshy part just behind the head (kings like to take baits head first) or towards the tail through the back (they will swim more freely however you may kill them if you reel them backwards through the water). If you are hooking them through the back, don't ever hook them below the lateral line. If you do, you'll get into their guts and they will die. If you're using yakkas the lateral line is easy to spot - it's the yellow line across their body on each side from head to tail.

20-30lb braid and a 30lb leader should be right for you if you are targeting these fish for the first time.

Good luck!

[DerekD]

Hi Mike - the angler and not 89 (I'll call you later).

When you say fishing the moorings are you talking about from a boat or from a kayak? I do both and there are only some minor adjustments I make for each scenario. What is your squid catching ability like?

To catch kings I prefer fresh squid over yakkas purely for the reason if you have live yellowtail down you have to be careful with line management so they don't wrap up two or three of your lines.

My boat is set up so the rod holders are more or less on the corners of the boat and at 45° to the water. This means I can have 4 baits down and keep each as far away from the others as I can which keeps them from tangling as the boat swings. I like about 10 to 14m of water and keep my baits about 4m from the bottom (drop bait to bottom and drop rod tip to water level and wind in slack, lift rod approximately 2m above water then quickly wind down to water level, repeat the 2m lift to get the 4m from the bottom). I like heavier sinkers but have at least 1m of line below the sinker to the hook which allows the hook and bait to move more naturally through the water. I wouldn't use a paternoster rig. Remember to back the drag off as when a king takes the bait the rod will load up till something gives. I use 5/0 or 6/0 Gamakatsu circle hooks with either a strip of squid (2 to 3cm wide and 5 to 8cm long) or the squid head with the hook exposed. I'll tie off on a mooring and ideally have at least several metres of line between me and the buoy to give the kings less chance to wrap me on the mooring. Fishing from shore over the years I noticed kings doing laps of between 10 and 30 minutes. If I don't get a hook up in 45 minutes a location change is in order. With the bigger rods in the holders my fishing mate and I will fish the bream rods to keep busy and for the fun of it. I don't know how many times over the years we have had big fresh baits down and the kings take the small piece of squid on the light rods. Gets a bit hectic and don't panic as you can still land them.

From the kayak I have one bait on a really heavy sinker (big snapper lead) in the rod holder and the other forwards of me to ensure bait separation. I try for 4 to 6m off the bottom depending on the water depth. I have a fish finder on mine and it allows me to maintain a particular depth as I cruise very slowly along the shore in the harbour.

I know of some people that fish from a boat and they drive from one harbour marker to another and drop a live bait down. If it doesn't get hit within a few minutes they will shift to the next location till they find the kings.

More to follow.

Derek

Edited January 17, 2018 by DerekD

[Miketheangler]

3 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi Mike - the angler and not 89 (I'll call you later).

When you say fishing the moorings are you talking about from a boat or from a kayak? I do both and there are only some minor adjustments I make for each scenario. What is your squid catching ability like?

To catch kings I prefer fresh squid over yakkas purely for the reason if you have live yellowtail down you have to be careful with line management so they don't wrap up two or three of your lines.

My boat is set up so the rod holders are more or less on the corners of the boat and at 45° to the water. This means I can have 4 baits down and keep each as far away from the others as I can which keeps them from tangling as the boat swings. I like about 10 to 14m of water and keep my baits about 4m from the bottom (drop bait to bottom and drop rod tip to water level and wind in slack, lift rod approximately 2m above water then quickly wind down to water level, repeat the 2m lift to get the 4m from the bottom). I like heavier sinkers but have at least 1m of line below the sinker to the hook which allows the hook and bait to move more naturally through the water. I wouldn't use a paternoster rig. Remember to back the drag off as when a king takes the bait the rod will load up till something gives. I use 5/0 or 6/0 Gamakatsu circle hooks with either a strip of squid (2 to 3cm wide and 5 to 8cm long) or the squid head with the hook exposed. I'll tie off on a mooring and ideally have at least several metres of line between me and the buoy to give the kings less chance to wrap me on the mooring. Fishing from shore over the years I noticed kings doing laps of between 10 and 30 minutes. If I don't get a hook up in 45 minutes a location change is in order. With the bigger rods in the holders my fishing mate and I will fish the bream rods to keep busy and for the fun of it. I don't know how many times over the years we have had big fresh baits down and the kings take the small piece of squid on the light rods. Gets a bit hectic and don't panic as you can still land them.

From the kayak I have one bait on a really heavy sinker (big snapper lead) in the rod holder and the other forwards of me to ensure bait separation. I try for 4 to 6m off the bottom depending on the water depth. I have a fish finder on mine and it allows me to maintain a particular depth as I cruise very slowly along the shore in the harbour.

I know of some people that fish from a boat and they drive from one harbour marker to another and drop a live bait down. If it doesn't get hit within a few minutes they will shift to the next location till they find the kings.

More to follow.

Derek

Thanks, I'm going off my kayak by the way, tbh I have never caught a squid before but I have a few jigs setup and the wharf/beach I will be launching from holds plenty of squid, is this the technique,let jig hit the bottom, then slowroll just so its over the weedbed, and the double hop and sink?

  I thought I should just weightless a squid strip and weightless a pillie cube and cast them about 2 meters away from the mooring. Maybe I could have that and also do your weighted technique, with the weighted technique what's the rig looking like and is that dropped vertically?

In the case of not catching any squid will yakkas be my next top bait? Or can fish market squid and pillies still out fish yakkas?

And BTW one of my rods is spooled with multicolored braids that's the way I find the water depth.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Miketheangler

[DerekD]

Hi Again,

Weightless baits is a very effective way of getting the kings from the shore but I find it to be a pain from the kayak as unless you are tied off somewhere you end up drifting (current or wind) which means it is difficult to keep the baits down. I usually head out with three rods. A 2-4kg bream rod for light flicking for surface fish and chasing squid. A 5-8kg snapper rod with 15lb braid, 30lb leader and a duolock snap (quick lure changes) for trolling, chasing squid, and bait fishing for kings (I have a pre-rigger swivel, heavy ball sinker and hook setup which I can snap on to the duolock snap). A 50/80lb outfit to which I have 80lb leader, a snapper lead then a swivel, then more line to the hook which I can leave in the back rod holder. The reason I like fishing 4 to 6m off the bottom is that it puts it in a location where they can see the bait as they cruise through.

When you can, spend some time learning to catch squid. Of the 17 kings (17 greater Sydney kings was my 2017 goal which I achieved with 3 days to spare - 18 kings is my 2018 goal - see a theme (3 so far this year)) I landed last year 8 were with lure and 9 were with squid. For the record 7 were shore based, 5 from the kayak and 5 from a boat. Put the time in and you'll have your first kingfish pretty soon. In addition to fishing the moorings also fish along the shoreline as they will often follow it on their laps. I've seen 1m plus kings climbing over each other in less than 1m of water to get to the baitfish (didn't have my rod handy) so they don't mind going into the shallows.

I've done a few long posts for other people but key points for catching squid are. My go to jig is a  2.2 or 2.5 in a bright colour (usually pink or orange) with some white. Squid have good eyes, can swim quickly but can be hesitant in taking a jig. Check the sink rate of your jig (3 seconds per meter is pretty usual). Fish as close to the bottom as you can without snagging up - if over weed I count down. If over sand I let it hit bottom.  Use an aggressive double or triple flick to get it off the bottom and get their attention then have a 3 or 4 second pause in which to get back to the bottom and give them a chance to grab it. If during the flick you feel weight then use a soft hand to retrieve and avoid pulling the jig. They move around so cover ground to find them. If you hook a southern calamari there will often be a 2nd and even 3rd one in the same area of a similar size. Arrow squid seem to travel in larger schools and I have landed up to 9. When they get in close careful landing them. It is one of the funniest things you will see if your mate gets inked. Less funny if it happens to you. I have a technique for landing them without getting inked but I'm sure you'll work something out.

Here are some links to previous squidding techniques posts I've done:

This one discusses squid preparation for bait. One of these days may have to combine my posts into one and see if it can be pinned.

There are a few more I have done over the years which you can find if you search my posts.

Regards,

Derek

 

[Smasher]

You're a legend Derek. 

I think I've just doubled my squidding knowledge by reading your posts. 

You know, I've also had success by simply leaving a jig in the water, maybe a meter above the bottom, with the rod in the rod holder and the boat drifting along - and while im busy working a rod in my hands getting nothing the one in the holder is going off!

[Stash]

you beat me to the squid questions. thanks Derek.

[Miketheangler]

6 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi Again,

Weightless baits is a very effective way of getting the kings from the shore but I find it to be a pain from the kayak as unless you are tied off somewhere you end up drifting (current or wind) which means it is difficult to keep the baits down. I usually head out with three rods. A 2-4kg bream rod for light flicking for surface fish and chasing squid. A 5-8kg snapper rod with 15lb braid, 30lb leader and a duolock snap (quick lure changes) for trolling, chasing squid, and bait fishing for kings (I have a pre-rigger swivel, heavy ball sinker and hook setup which I can snap on to the duolock snap). A 50/80lb outfit to which I have 80lb leader, a snapper lead then a swivel, then more line to the hook which I can leave in the back rod holder. The reason I like fishing 4 to 6m off the bottom is that it puts it in a location where they can see the bait as they cruise through.

When you can, spend some time learning to catch squid. Of the 17 kings (17 greater Sydney kings was my 2017 goal which I achieved with 3 days to spare - 18 kings is my 2018 goal - see a theme (3 so far this year)) I landed last year 8 were with lure and 9 were with squid. For the record 7 were shore based, 5 from the kayak and 5 from a boat. Put the time in and you'll have your first kingfish pretty soon. In addition to fishing the moorings also fish along the shoreline as they will often follow it on their laps. I've seen 1m plus kings climbing over each other in less than 1m of water to get to the baitfish (didn't have my rod handy) so they don't mind going into the shallows.

I've done a few long posts for other people but key points for catching squid are. My go to jig is a  2.2 or 2.5 in a bright colour (usually pink or orange) with some white. Squid have good eyes, can swim quickly but can be hesitant in taking a jig. Check the sink rate of your jig (3 seconds per meter is pretty usual). Fish as close to the bottom as you can without snagging up - if over weed I count down. If over sand I let it hit bottom.  Use an aggressive double or triple flick to get it off the bottom and get their attention then have a 3 or 4 second pause in which to get back to the bottom and give them a chance to grab it. If during the flick you feel weight then use a soft hand to retrieve and avoid pulling the jig. They move around so cover ground to find them. If you hook a southern calamari there will often be a 2nd and even 3rd one in the same area of a similar size. Arrow squid seem to travel in larger schools and I have landed up to 9. When they get in close careful landing them. It is one of the funniest things you will see if your mate gets inked. Less funny if it happens to you. I have a technique for landing them without getting inked but I'm sure you'll work something out.

Here are some links to previous squidding techniques posts I've done:

This one discusses squid preparation for bait. One of these days may have to combine my posts into one and see if it can be pinned.

There are a few more I have done over the years which you can find if you search my posts.

Regards,

Derek

 

Thanks for all your help derek! I will be anchored from my kayak,should this allow me to fish weightless baits?

What is your rig for dropping the bait down? 

I have got a 70mm sugapen, gulp 4 inch jerk shads, zman 7in jerkshads and a large diving minnow with pilchard colourations and a few other minows, also have a 10g metal slice and if fishing for kingys it will probably be followed by some teaser octopus skirts, also got 4 inch minnow grubs, will these all be effective and worth a shot for kings?

Day plan:

In terms of the plan does this look good?

I'll be at the wharf 5am with the kayak in the water, I'll squid for an hour hopefully picking up a few If not I'll try collected a few yakkas, from 6am-8:30am I will fish around the moorings for kings, after this time period I will head out to the opening of the bay in more open water that might be occampanied by a few rocky heads and cast for bonito, drop a paternoster down for reds, that will end up at 10:30am, I will flick around the mooring the rest of the day trying to catch some decent trevally and bream to end of the day. While doing all this I'll have the squid and pillies out in case the kings come past.

(the 2 hour and half period I am concentrating on kings will have a few spot changes)

P.s does 9lb mono as a leader spook flathead, and silver trevally

Edited January 18, 2018 by Miketheangler

[DerekD]

Hi Mike,

In terms of a day plan it sounds good - any day on the water fishing is good. Don't have it set in concrete and keep your eyes open as you may see some schools around. The 10gm slice is an awesome go to for pelagics and suggest you change the trebles out for a single to make unhooking easier.

While I don't consider myself to be a kingfish guru I do get my fair share and that has come from trying various techniques and thinking about what has worked and hasn't. I haven't had much luck with the teaser skirts from the kayak but I also haven't bothered using them all too often. I've never hooked one on a grub either so you'd have to ask other people. I like trolling a yo-zuri crystal minnow in the deep diver when I am heading from one location to another. Several years ago I worked out how to do a sub-surface walk the dog retrieve and when combined with pauses it has paid off pretty well. As a result I do well hooking kings on 3" and 4" berkley power minnows on the bream gear and 6" and 9" slapstix on the snapper gear (with the proviso that they have to be around in numbers). Keep trying different things as you will learn more that way.

There has been a distinct lack of surface activity in the harbour. Not to say you can't find schools but you have to work pretty hard to do so unlike past years I have seen (when they have been over the whole harbour and feeding for hours at a time). I think squid baits are a higher percentage option and it is what I plan to do when I head out on the kayak this Saturday. If I do see a school I will be chasing it though.

I am against the weightless rig from a boat but that is a personal peeve rather than anything related to how well it might fish. I head out with a mate who likes to fish weightless and you wouldn't believe how many times he has wrapped the other lines in the water as the wind or current comes into play. A heavy sinker will keep it down and away from other lines. I want the fish to be able to take the hook without feeling a great deal of resistance which is why I won't use a paternoster rig. Run your line down to a leader of say 1.5m. I loop the leader line a few times through my sinker to achieve a friction lock and then have a further metre of line below that to the hook. The hook then swings freely underneath the sinker and at the level you want to fish.

9lb mono will be fine. Most flathead or trevally won't care.

Please note that if you really want to catch a king concentrate on that for the whole session and ideally have fresh squid (or the yellowtail). If you are happy with a day on the water then your original plan is fine. Did you read my link for preparing the squid into baits. Catching kings on lure will likely come later - unless you find some surface schools. They will fight all the way and give you a fair amount of runs. They should also run again when they see the kayak. If you can then get them into clear water.

Regards,

Derek

[Miketheangler]

Thanks mate, I sure will concentrate on the kings, will a running sinker above a swivel with a meter of trace do well? 

As for live yakkas what's the rig looking like? I've heard of people just have a running sinker above the double Snell or hook

Edited January 18, 2018 by Miketheangler

[DerekD]

A running sinker above swivel will also do and that is what I use for the 50/80lb outfit with a heavy snapper lead as a poor mans down rigger.

I use the same rig for yellowtail but please note if you troll too quickly a bait can twist which is where the swivel helps a little.

Easiest way to pin the yellowtail is across the nose. I will also bridle rig them with rubber bands which is a little more bump resistant. You will have to Google it but this is how it looks (not my photo). When I am fishing from shore and I want them to head out I pin them closer to the tail.

I am looking forward to hearing your fishing report after the weekend.

Regards,

Derek

Edited January 18, 2018 by DerekD

[Miketheangler]

17 hours ago, DerekD said:

A running sinker above swivel will also do and that is what I use for the 50/80lb outfit with a heavy snapper lead as a poor mans down rigger.

I use the same rig for yellowtail but please note if you troll too quickly a bait can twist which is where the swivel helps a little.

Easiest way to pin the yellowtail is across the nose. I will also bridle rig them with rubber bands which is a little more bump resistant. You will have to Google it but this is how it looks (not my photo). When I am fishing from shore and I want them to head out I pin them closer to the tail.

I am looking forward to hearing your fishing report after the weekend.

Regards,

Derek

I know how to bridle rig, I won't be trolling unless whilst moving locations. I am actually heading out Saturday morning as well. With the bait dropping technique, is that dropped verticaly under the kayak?

[DerekD]

Straight under the kayak. Just think of the kayak as one big fishing float.

[Miketheangler]

Mate I've got a problem my dad might ditch taking the kayak what's the rig for fishing land based just in case?

 

[DerekD]

In that case try for some squid - tomorrow is as good as any day. Don't spend three straight hours chasing them but in say 15 minute bursts. If you cover the area properly and don't hook up a squid then they are either not there or not playing. Watch the jig as it gets in close as they may follow in that case pause the jig to let them grab it - if and when they do then give the rod tip a short sharp flick to set the jig. If you can shift areas then do so and try it again. If you can't then try something else for the next 45 minutes before trying for squid again.

If you catch a squid then strip it. You could use the head 2 to 3m under a float or small balloon (I use water bombs $3 for 100) but keep it away from the structure you are fishing from to avoid the pickers. Once the head is gone you can use other strips from the squid. I usually do this on a sleeper rod but I have to keep one eye on it at all times. Alternative is to put the strip on a light gauge hook without a sinker, cast out and count it down through the water column. When you think it is close to the bottom lift the rod to get it back in the strike zone then count down again. If the squid is small you can send it out whole pinned near the tip of the hood. They can sometimes retain an air bubble as so remain floating on the surface in which case I might use a very light running ball sinker to get them going the right direction.

If you get a yellowtail then I prefer no sinker and then send them away from you by pinning them near the tail with a light gauge 4/0 or 5/0 hook. The drag of the line can get them heading away from you.

You can also use the yellowtail under a float. Probably back hook them.

Edited January 19, 2018 by DerekD

[Miketheangler]

On 1/19/2018 at 9:46 PM, DerekD said:

In that case try for some squid - tomorrow is as good as any day. Don't spend three straight hours chasing them but in say 15 minute bursts. If you cover the area properly and don't hook up a squid then they are either not there or not playing. Watch the jig as it gets in close as they may follow in that case pause the jig to let them grab it - if and when they do then give the rod tip a short sharp flick to set the jig. If you can shift areas then do so and try it again. If you can't then try something else for the next 45 minutes before trying for squid again.

If you catch a squid then strip it. You could use the head 2 to 3m under a float or small balloon (I use water bombs $3 for 100) but keep it away from the structure you are fishing from to avoid the pickers. Once the head is gone you can use other strips from the squid. I usually do this on a sleeper rod but I have to keep one eye on it at all times. Alternative is to put the strip on a light gauge hook without a sinker, cast out and count it down through the water column. When you think it is close to the bottom lift the rod to get it back in the strike zone then count down again. If the squid is small you can send it out whole pinned near the tip of the hood. They can sometimes retain an air bubble as so remain floating on the surface in which case I might use a very light running ball sinker to get them going the right direction.

If you get a yellowtail then I prefer no sinker and then send them away from you by pinning them near the tail with a light gauge 4/0 or 5/0 hook. The drag of the line can get them heading away from you.

You can also use the yellowtail under a float. Probably back hook them.

Sorry for the late reply, lost my squid jig first cast unfortuanelty and hadn't managed to buy any snap frozen squid or fish market squid. I had the livies out untouched and weightless pillies, two larger kings swam past and I casted a weightless pillie,he went over to it to check it out but didn't take a bite, I was using 30lb fleuro could it possibly be too heavy,maybe they saw the hook point popping out the cube? Anyways, I did manage to pick up a nice 64cm flattie which made my morning. Any tips on targeting kingfish on lures, will a Williamson gyro jig be effective, 10g chrome slice, and a 70mm sugapen, and how do the diving minnows go?

[DerekD]

Hi Mike,

Sounds like I did slightly better than you with 11 squid (from three different locations) and a 63cm king (4th for 2018 and not legal so had to go back) from the kayak on Saturday but was unsuccessful on Sunday from the shore at a couple of different locations with squid under a float. Alright your flathead was longer than my king.

I don't think the 30lb leader was an issue. I picked the one up from the kayak on 80lb. Sometimes kings aren't in the mood and sometimes they will climb over each other to get to what is on offer. I watched a video last night where a guy hooks up by dropping just a hook into a school of kings. I'll have to do a more detailed reply when I have some time (lunchtime at work won't be long enough) but I think you are worrying more about one lure over another than technique and the thought process behind it. You did a really nice write up on flathead techniques and while I might have a different viewpoint on a couple of things you have said I was seriously impressed at how much thought you put into it based on your learning experiences.

Regards,

Derek

[Miketheangler]

I saw a kayak fisho off my wharf, did u go past double bay? Where u using the same rigs u told me as well, squid strips or live?

[DerekD]

Wasn't me. I have a bright blue Hobie revolution with fish finder which gives me something to look at besides the fantastic view when the fish aren't biting. 

I was going to go to the Western wedding cake and Sow and Pigs but the wind came up so I dropped the baits down at Garden island to start with and then tried some other spots afterwards. I used the rig I was telling you about and it was the heavy rod in the holder which hooked the king. A bit of stuffing around as I tried to get the snapper rod into the rod holder. I had a whole dead squid on the big rod and just the head on the snapper rod. I'm still trying to crack the 1m king.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by DerekD

[Miketheangler]

On 1/22/2018 at 8:28 PM, DerekD said:

Wasn't me. I have a bright blue Hobie revolution with fish finder which gives me something to look at besides the fantastic view when the fish aren't biting. 

I was going to go to the Western wedding cake and Sow and Pigs but the wind came up so I dropped the baits down at Garden island to start with and then tried some other spots afterwards. I used the rig I was telling you about and it was the heavy rod in the holder which hooked the king. A bit of stuffing around as I tried to get the snapper rod into the rod holder. I had a whole dead squid on the big rod and just the head on the snapper rod. I'm still trying to crack the 1m king.

 

Search up Kayak fishing botany bay. Same guy on YouTube most of his vids at Molli pt. He pulled a 109cm from there.

[DerekD]

Hi Mike,

 

You asked about lure fishing for kings and what lures would be suitable. I think you need to concentrate on the how rather than the what. The following is a number of “aha” kingfish related moments which I have had which is why I fish the way I do from the shore when chasing kings. I don’t claim to be an expert but it is what works for me. I still take the time to talk to others to see if I can find that gem of information which will improve my fishing. If we were to have this conversation in a year or two then some things may have changed as I have worked out or learned new things.

 

• As far as fish go I think the kingfish is a curious fish. I can’t count the amount of times I have seen a kingfish follow a lure, or bait, or hooked fish to my feet when fishing. When pulling up in an area on the boat I have seen a number of kingfish come up to have a look. I’ve not been able to verify this but it was explained to me that the old kingfish traps were a 2 x 2 x 2m cube with a mirror inside – one king would enter the trap to have a look and the rest would follow it in. I have a theory that they play follow the leader at times and the leader is the one that is doing something different at the time. Hook a king and its mates will often follow it up which allows you the opportunity for multiple hook ups.

• They are not necessarily a mindless eating machine. I have had a mars bar sized live squid in the water and had a king come up and have a look and then swim off. I have a few Sydney kingfish DVDs and in one of them a live bait (slimey mackerel) is towed behind a camera. There are at least 20 times the kings come within easy striking distance before one fish can be bothered to take the bait. When fishing lures if they are not fired up you are trying to get a reaction bite out of that 1 in 20 kings around. I believe in that same DVD there is shot of a king turning a live bait around in the water to swallow it headfirst.

• They are looking for the easy prey or fish acting differently. I was at Manly wharf years ago where there was a good school of kings swimming amongst a school of yellowtail. Predator and prey swimming together and looking pretty relaxed. My  mate threw a slice of white bread in the water which fired up the yellowtail. The kings started moving quicker but still weren’t feeding. There was one yellowtail with a very small piece of bread caught in the corner of the mouth. That was the only yellowtail which got slammed and eaten.

• They’ll sometimes just try for a taste or because it is different. I’ve had freshly caught whole squid, a squid head, squid strips hanging down in the water from the boat. More than once the only piece of squid they took was the small piece I had on the bream rod which I was fishing while waiting for the big rods to go off. Also seen this once when blackfishing – that didn’t last long. Mates have told me how they have been fishing one lure for a while but it wasn't till they changed lure that they hooked up.

• The big one for me is that kings like to chase and can get bored. Many times I have seen a king follow a lure in and running out of room the angler slows the lure down hoping the king will take it. They just peel away like they are bored. A mate of mine changes lure direction when he runs out of room so it looks like it is a panicked bait fish and this has actually hooked him a few kings over the years.

 

The next trick is starting to incorporate the above into your lure fishing style. I use a sub surface walk the dog style with minnow and sluggo/slapstix type plastics. I use the bullet type jig heads with a bouncing rod tip to get the sweeping from left to right say three times followed by a pause. Then I repeat it. Now think about it from a kingfishes perspective. It sees an erratically swimming fish and comes up and has a look. Fish darts left, so kingfish moves left. Then it darts right so kingfish has to turn right then left again. Kingfish is getting a little annoyed and wants it more and has an opportunity during the pause and as it moves close the baitfish wakes up and starts darting again. On multiple times when teaching my fishing mates this style the response I get from them when they hook up is that it was on the pause (70% to 80% of the time). If you feel the bump and it doesn’t hook up then rip it back as fast as you can to get the chase response to kick in. One lad I was fishing with was going to give up on the bump but then followed my instruction to rip it back. He hooked up and while it was a solid fish the fight was way shorter than I would expect for a king. When landed we found out the jig head was about 10cm inside the kings throat with the rest of the 9” lure all the way down to the stomach. The king really wanted that lure. I’ve started using the flutter type shore jig (one of my fishing learning goals for this season) with a similar erratic retrieve. It has hooked me two kings so far this year.

 

Now I want to put a proviso in which is - the information above works for me from the shore when the kingfish are around in decent numbers. Last season in Sydney harbour was the worst I have seen in over 10 years and talking to 2 separate anglers who making a living from fishing in Sydney they reached the same conclusion. To me this season so far seems to be worse. In a normal season I can pick various sections of Sydney harbour at random and expect to see multiple schools feeding for extended periods. These days I’m lucky to see one bust up in three hours of fishing and if I do it is over within a few minutes. In the past even if I wasn’t hooking kings we would often see them follow a lure up for a look. Not seeing this. I’m seeing schools of baitfish which are not being harassed. People are getting kings in the harbour but I think they are having to work harder than in the past as I suspect they have not moved into the harbour in the numbers we have seen in the past. My current theory is water temperature is still nicer for them outside than inside the harbour but I haven't been able to find records to compare them with the amazing summer seasons we had 2010 to 2013.

 

Please note again that these are my experiences based on multiple sessions over multiple seasons with a good group of fishing mates. To get my kings this year I will be spending more time on the kayak dropping squid baits down than chasing down schools (my normal preference). I am really hoping the harbour wakes up as I have had some insanely brilliant sessions from the kayak in the past.

 

Regards,

 

Derek

[DerekD]

Was late last night - forgot to add in that you should be prepared to work the full water column. One of the areas I fish is about 12 to 15 metres deep. At some stage I will count the lure down from when it hits the surface to when it hits the bottom. Say it is 20 seconds. I might start of with a 3 second count to work the top level with short pauses. Next cast I might use an 5 second countdown. The one after a 10 second count. Then a 15 count. Then all the way to the bottom then work the top level. If the fishing are not feeding on the surface then I am doing a lot of casting on pure faith. Last year I had to put the time in to get the results in what I think was a very bad season and I have a feeling if it was a decent season I probably would have doubled or tripled the amount of kings I would have hooked from the shore in Sydney harbour.

Edited February 2, 2018 by DerekD

[Miketheangler]

On 2/2/2018 at 12:19 PM, DerekD said:

Was late last night - forgot to add in that you should be prepared to work the full water column. One of the areas I fish is about 12 to 15 metres deep. At some stage I will count the lure down from when it hits the surface to when it hits the bottom. Say it is 20 seconds. I might start of with a 3 second count to work the top level with short pauses. Next cast I might use an 5 second countdown. The one after a 10 second count. Then a 15 count. Then all the way to the bottom then work the top level. If the fishing are not feeding on the surface then I am doing a lot of casting on pure faith. Last year I had to put the time in to get the results in what I think was a very bad season and I have a feeling if it was a decent season I probably would have doubled or tripled the amount of kings I would have hooked from the shore in Sydney harbour.

Thanks mate your a top bloke.

[wazatherfisherman]

On 01/02/2018 at 9:58 PM, DerekD said:

Hi Mike,

 

You asked about lure fishing for kings and what lures would be suitable. I think you need to concentrate on the how rather than the what. The following is a number of “aha” kingfish related moments which I have had which is why I fish the way I do from the shore when chasing kings. I don’t claim to be an expert but it is what works for me. I still take the time to talk to others to see if I can find that gem of information which will improve my fishing. If we were to have this conversation in a year or two then some things may have changed as I have worked out or learned new things.

 

• As far as fish go I think the kingfish is a curious fish. I can’t count the amount of times I have seen a kingfish follow a lure, or bait, or hooked fish to my feet when fishing. When pulling up in an area on the boat I have seen a number of kingfish come up to have a look. I’ve not been able to verify this but it was explained to me that the old kingfish traps were a 2 x 2 x 2m cube with a mirror inside – one king would enter the trap to have a look and the rest would follow it in. I have a theory that they play follow the leader at times and the leader is the one that is doing something different at the time. Hook a king and its mates will often follow it up which allows you the opportunity for multiple hook ups.

• They are not necessarily a mindless eating machine. I have had a mars bar sized live squid in the water and had a king come up and have a look and then swim off. I have a few Sydney kingfish DVDs and in one of them a live bait (slimey mackerel) is towed behind a camera. There are at least 20 times the kings come within easy striking distance before one fish can be bothered to take the bait. When fishing lures if they are not fired up you are trying to get a reaction bite out of that 1 in 20 kings around. I believe in that same DVD there is shot of a king turning a live bait around in the water to swallow it headfirst.

• They are looking for the easy prey or fish acting differently. I was at Manly wharf years ago where there was a good school of kings swimming amongst a school of yellowtail. Predator and prey swimming together and looking pretty relaxed. My  mate threw a slice of white bread in the water which fired up the yellowtail. The kings started moving quicker but still weren’t feeding. There was one yellowtail with a very small piece of bread caught in the corner of the mouth. That was the only yellowtail which got slammed and eaten.

• They’ll sometimes just try for a taste or because it is different. I’ve had freshly caught whole squid, a squid head, squid strips hanging down in the water from the boat. More than once the only piece of squid they took was the small piece I had on the bream rod which I was fishing while waiting for the big rods to go off. Also seen this once when blackfishing – that didn’t last long. Mates have told me how they have been fishing one lure for a while but it wasn't till they changed lure that they hooked up.

• The big one for me is that kings like to chase and can get bored. Many times I have seen a king follow a lure in and running out of room the angler slows the lure down hoping the king will take it. They just peel away like they are bored. A mate of mine changes lure direction when he runs out of room so it looks like it is a panicked bait fish and this has actually hooked him a few kings over the years.

 

The next trick is starting to incorporate the above into your lure fishing style. I use a sub surface walk the dog style with minnow and sluggo/slapstix type plastics. I use the bullet type jig heads with a bouncing rod tip to get the sweeping from left to right say three times followed by a pause. Then I repeat it. Now think about it from a kingfishes perspective. It sees an erratically swimming fish and comes up and has a look. Fish darts left, so kingfish moves left. Then it darts right so kingfish has to turn right then left again. Kingfish is getting a little annoyed and wants it more and has an opportunity during the pause and as it moves close the baitfish wakes up and starts darting again. On multiple times when teaching my fishing mates this style the response I get from them when they hook up is that it was on the pause (70% to 80% of the time). If you feel the bump and it doesn’t hook up then rip it back as fast as you can to get the chase response to kick in. One lad I was fishing with was going to give up on the bump but then followed my instruction to rip it back. He hooked up and while it was a solid fish the fight was way shorter than I would expect for a king. When landed we found out the jig head was about 10cm inside the kings throat with the rest of the 9” lure all the way down to the stomach. The king really wanted that lure. I’ve started using the flutter type shore jig (one of my fishing learning goals for this season) with a similar erratic retrieve. It has hooked me two kings so far this year.

 

Now I want to put a proviso in which is - the information above works for me from the shore when the kingfish are around in decent numbers. Last season in Sydney harbour was the worst I have seen in over 10 years and talking to 2 separate anglers who making a living from fishing in Sydney they reached the same conclusion. To me this season so far seems to be worse. In a normal season I can pick various sections of Sydney harbour at random and expect to see multiple schools feeding for extended periods. These days I’m lucky to see one bust up in three hours of fishing and if I do it is over within a few minutes. In the past even if I wasn’t hooking kings we would often see them follow a lure up for a look. Not seeing this. I’m seeing schools of baitfish which are not being harassed. People are getting kings in the harbour but I think they are having to work harder than in the past as I suspect they have not moved into the harbour in the numbers we have seen in the past. My current theory is water temperature is still nicer for them outside than inside the harbour but I haven't been able to find records to compare them with the amazing summer seasons we had 2010 to 2013.

 

Please note again that these are my experiences based on multiple sessions over multiple seasons with a good group of fishing mates. To get my kings this year I will be spending more time on the kayak dropping squid baits down than chasing down schools (my normal preference). I am really hoping the harbour wakes up as I have had some insanely brilliant sessions from the kayak in the past.

 

Regards,

 

Derek

Hi Derek, I was going through the articles and just found this one, written by you. I wanted to let you know that the above information you've provided is the best and most relatable I've seen anywhere, by anyone on the idiosyncrasies of kingies. In the past I chased them all over the place- live baited and spun the rocks, jigged Montague Island and the Peak, hand-lined them(trolling) etc etc and reckon the major points you've outlined, are as you have indicated, the key factors when chasing kings. I can totally relate to everything you've said. I know it's a while back since you posted it, but wanted to let you know from one kingie fisher to another, that it's a brilliant article!  Thanks again

[DerekD]

20 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Derek, I was going through the articles and just found this one, written by you. I wanted to let you know that the above information you've provided is the best and most relatable I've seen anywhere, by anyone on the idiosyncrasies of kingies. In the past I chased them all over the place- live baited and spun the rocks, jigged Montague Island and the Peak, hand-lined them(trolling) etc etc and reckon the major points you've outlined, are as you have indicated, the key factors when chasing kings. I can totally relate to everything you've said. I know it's a while back since you posted it, but wanted to let you know from one kingie fisher to another, that it's a brilliant article!  Thanks again

Hi Waza.

Having read your detailed and excellent article on John Dory and how high you set the bar I consider the above comment coming from you to be high praise. Thank you for the compliment.

I know how much time and effort it takes to put together a post which compresses years of experience into something which reads well so I'm really looking forward to reading more of your informative posts.

Regards,

Derek