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John Dory Fishing


wazatherfisherman

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1 hour ago, Larkin said:

Hey waza,

When would the season for catching John Dory begin and end? 

Keen to try your methods, but might be a little late in the season for this year

Hi Larkin the season will be over this year- the time to try is late April as soon as it gets cold and the offshore current is running north again. 

June-July are peak months but quite often there is a late run of mostly smaller fish during September but haven't heard of them being caught inshore after September.

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5 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Larkin the season will be over this year- the time to try is late April as soon as it gets cold and the offshore current is running north again. 

June-July are peak months but quite often there is a late run of mostly smaller fish during September but haven't heard of them being caught inshore after September.

Cheers waza,

looks like next year it is.

your John Dory article was very informative, especially on how the live bait should be presented off the bottom.

limiting the movement with a larger sinker to keep the livie in the strike zone - keen to try this.

👍 

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6 hours ago, Larkin said:

Cheers waza,

looks like next year it is.

your John Dory article was very informative, especially on how the live bait should be presented off the bottom.

limiting the movement with a larger sinker to keep the livie in the strike zone - keen to try this.

👍

Hi Larkin another couple of things to remember are: using fairly light line for leader- under 10lb mono will give the best results and also if fishing off a wharf, then about 1-1.5 meters away from a pylon is a good place to lower your live bait. You need to use a large enough sinker to keep your line basically straight down, the length of the leader is the axis your bait has for movement.

If you are fishing near saltwater baths such as Gunnamatta Bay or Balmoral it's a good idea to keep your bait within a couple of meters of the pool netting/boarding, as the same as using the wharf pylons for 'stealth attack' the Dory will 'float' along the net using the covering marine growth to conceal their presence and offering them the surprise element when attempting a meal.

Regards Waza

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On 11/10/2021 at 2:27 PM, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Larkin another couple of things to remember are: using fairly light line for leader- under 10lb mono will give the best results and also if fishing off a wharf, then about 1-1.5 meters away from a pylon is a good place to lower your live bait. You need to use a large enough sinker to keep your line basically straight down, the length of the leader is the axis your bait has for movement.

If you are fishing near saltwater baths such as Gunnamatta Bay or Balmoral it's a good idea to keep your bait within a couple of meters of the pool netting/boarding, as the same as using the wharf pylons for 'stealth attack' the Dory will 'float' along the net using the covering marine growth to conceal their presence and offering them the surprise element when attempting a meal.

Regards Waza

Thanks mate, Can tell you really enjoyed catching them - such a beautiful looking fish.

Next season will be trying your method in port hacking - both by boat and I’ll try land based off the baths at Gunnamatta on early morning high tides.

They’re one of the species of fish I’ve always wanted to catch.

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1 hour ago, Larkin said:

Thanks mate, Can tell you really enjoyed catching them - such a beautiful looking fish.

Next season will be trying your method in port hacking - both by boat and I’ll try land based off the baths at Gunnamatta on early morning high tides.

They’re one of the species of fish I’ve always wanted to catch.

Hi again they are one species that can genuinely be specifically targeted and were the prize fish for wharf fishers as they could be relied upon to turn up once the water became cold.

High and low tide in deeper locations and high tide in the shallower waters like saltwater baths.

In my opinion they are the most delectable eating fish of all and well worth getting out there on freezing mornings to try for once you know the methods (which are relatively simple really).

The one thing I didn't mention is that you can't really hide a Dory- they 'croak' when stashed in your bag! Hope you are successful when you give it a try.

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  • 4 months later...
On 11/11/2021 at 9:19 PM, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi again they are one species that can genuinely be specifically targeted and were the prize fish for wharf fishers as they could be relied upon to turn up once the water became cold.

High and low tide in deeper locations and high tide in the shallower waters like saltwater baths.

In my opinion they are the most delectable eating fish of all and well worth getting out there on freezing mornings to try for once you know the methods (which are relatively simple really).

The one thing I didn't mention is that you can't really hide a Dory- they 'croak' when stashed in your bag! Hope you are successful when you give it a try.

hi @wazatherfisherman
I was at Gunnamatta wharf a week ago 27th March right on high tide around 5pm - a guy was there fishing with his kids, said there was a John Dory swimming around the pylon.
it’s a bit early in the season - you think they would be around now or maybe it was a case of mistaken identity - possibly a leather jacket - fanbelly ect. 

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9 minutes ago, Larkin said:

hi @wazatherfisherman
I was at Gunnamatta wharf a week ago 27th March right on high tide around 5pm - a guy was there fishing with his kids, said there was a John Dory swimming around the pylon.
it’s a bit early in the season - you think they would be around now or maybe it was a case of mistaken identity - possibly a leather jacket - fanbelly ect. 

Have not caught any for quite a while now, but May is the earliest I can remember them turning up.

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2 minutes ago, Larkin said:

hi @wazatherfisherman
I was at Gunnamatta wharf a week ago 27th March right on high tide around 5pm - a guy was there fishing with his kids, said there was a John Dory swimming around the pylon.
it’s a bit early in the season - you think they would be around now or maybe it was a case of mistaken identity - possibly a leather jacket - fanbelly ect. 

Hi Larkin in good years they appear prior to Easter, often in conjunction with the appearance of Hairtail which have been around now for over a month. The only question would be was the fish hiding next to/passing the pylon or actually feeding off it?- in which case it would most likely be a Fan Belly Leatherjacket as they do have similar colouration, however there's no mistaking the dorsal fin rays of JD's. 

Worth putting a live something out at slack tide!

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8 hours ago, Yowie said:

Have not caught any for quite a while now, but May is the earliest I can remember them turning up.

Thanks yowie, that’s great local info. Plan to give it a try this season. 

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9 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Larkin in good years they appear prior to Easter, often in conjunction with the appearance of Hairtail which have been around now for over a month. The only question would be was the fish hiding next to/passing the pylon or actually feeding off it?- in which case it would most likely be a Fan Belly Leatherjacket as they do have similar colouration, however there's no mistaking the dorsal fin rays of JD's. 

Worth putting a live something out at slack tide!

hi waza, He said to me “there was a John Dory swimming around that pylon earlier” 

I replied “a John Dory?” And he said “yeah, around that pylon”

I did see a leather jacket being caught about 10 mins later by a fisherman 5 meters away. Not a fan belly.

Should I be burleying when fishing for them? And what’s the optimal size of live bait?

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4 hours ago, Larkin said:

hi waza, He said to me “there was a John Dory swimming around that pylon earlier” 

I replied “a John Dory?” And he said “yeah, around that pylon”

I did see a leather jacket being caught about 10 mins later by a fisherman 5 meters away. Not a fan belly.

Should I be burleying when fishing for them? And what’s the optimal size of live bait?

It is possible it may have been a Dory, some fishos do know their fish species.

Any small live fish is good, as John Dory are not fussy eaters. I have caught a couple on dead baits sitting on the bottom, however, live fish are better.

In Gunnamatta Bay, I have caught Dory with sand whiting in their stomachs, the whiting nearing legal size, and in South West Arm, I have caught Dory with blackfish nearing legal size in their stomachs.

I observed a Dory one day in Burraneer Bay chasing bully mullet longer then he was, no chance of catching one but the Dory tried for about half an hour.

Small yakkas make an excellent bait, and there is the chance of a kingie or larger tailor hooking up.

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1 hour ago, Yowie said:

It is possible it may have been a Dory, some fishos do know their fish species.

Any small live fish is good, as John Dory are not fussy eaters. I have caught a couple on dead baits sitting on the bottom, however, live fish are better.

In Gunnamatta Bay, I have caught Dory with sand whiting in their stomachs, the whiting nearing legal size, and in South West Arm, I have caught Dory with blackfish nearing legal size in their stomachs.

I observed a Dory one day in Burraneer Bay chasing bully mullet longer then he was, no chance of catching one but the Dory tried for about half an hour.

Small yakkas make an excellent bait, and there is the chance of a kingie or larger tailor hooking up.

I’ have a few spots in mind for Gunnamatta

With regards to south west arm, are we talking in the deeper water? Gooseberry Or down the end where the boats are moored

Were your catches mostly on a slack tide?

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7 hours ago, Larkin said:

hi waza, He said to me “there was a John Dory swimming around that pylon earlier” 

I replied “a John Dory?” And he said “yeah, around that pylon”

I did see a leather jacket being caught about 10 mins later by a fisherman 5 meters away. Not a fan belly.

Should I be burleying when fishing for them? And what’s the optimal size of live bait?

Hi Larkin  maybe it was a Dory- they like to sit near pylons, kelp patches and along the fence/net of saltwater baths once they've come in from outside, as they use these positions to assist in camouflage when stalking prey- due to only having a 'short attack range' in regards to speed of movement. They do move that big mouth at lightning speed once prey is in range though.

It's always a good idea to burley when using live bait- because bringing baitfish around and getting them excited while feeding, creates activity which in turn attracts all sorts of predators/next steps in the food chain. JD's often appear around Yellowtail schools, waiting for one to stray too close to them.

Interestingly, once Yellowtail have been attracted to the burley then a JD or two have arrived, we have still been able to catch the Yellowtail regardless that they are sharing close proximity with the JD. This  might indicate that although wary of predation (by staying a couple of meters from the 'floating' JD) the Yellowtail instinctively know they can escape. If Kingfish, Tailor, Bonito etc turn up, often the bait turn more attention to 'survival' rather than food and are a bit harder to catch or flee completely. Just an observation- they all share the environment after all.

As for live bait size, like Yowie said they'll eat whatever comes into range, often things as long as they are. I've caught them on foot long Yellowtail set for bigger fish and they've had a few inches of the tail sticking out of their mouths- you wouldn't be able to push the Yellowtail totally within them, but they certainly took them.

Personal favourite baits are Mado's and Trumpeters (so use a tiny piece of peeled prawn for baitfish bait rather than the old favourite hamburger mince for Yellowtail). I reckon that JD are well versed with eating these 'less desirable' species because they can probably catch them easier than the speedy Yellowtail and no doubt eat them much of the time. Small Black Spinefoot ('Black Trevally') are also a common stomach contents as are small Reddies/Luderick/Tarwhine.

I like a Mado in the 7-8 cm range if I can get one and they are common around wharves, pylons etc. Slack tide either high or low is the best time. When I was in my teens, once Autumn/Winter was upon us, JD could be relied upon to turn up at old favourite Zoo wharf on the slack tides.

Don't forget to use light leader and put your 2/0 suicide through the mouth of the bait and out through the front of the eye socket for best practice.- and good luck! they are well worth the effort if you like eating fish, in my opinion Australia's best eating fish

 

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3 hours ago, Larkin said:

I’ have a few spots in mind for Gunnamatta

With regards to south west arm, are we talking in the deeper water? Gooseberry Or down the end where the boats are moored

Were your catches mostly on a slack tide?

Different places without too much tidal run.

Have not caught dory in the Hacking for some years (have not fished for them for some time) but pulled them out of Gunnamatta, Burraneer, Dolans, Yowie bays, S/W Arm, N/W Arm, Lilli Pilli so they move about.

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7 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Larkin  maybe it was a Dory- they like to sit near pylons, kelp patches and along the fence/net of saltwater baths once they've come in from outside, as they use these positions to assist in camouflage when stalking prey- due to only having a 'short attack range' in regards to speed of movement. They do move that big mouth at lightning speed once prey is in range though.

It's always a good idea to burley when using live bait- because bringing baitfish around and getting them excited while feeding, creates activity which in turn attracts all sorts of predators/next steps in the food chain. JD's often appear around Yellowtail schools, waiting for one to stray too close to them.

Interestingly, once Yellowtail have been attracted to the burley then a JD or two have arrived, we have still been able to catch the Yellowtail regardless that they are sharing close proximity with the JD. This  might indicate that although wary of predation (by staying a couple of meters from the 'floating' JD) the Yellowtail instinctively know they can escape. If Kingfish, Tailor, Bonito etc turn up, often the bait turn more attention to 'survival' rather than food and are a bit harder to catch or flee completely. Just an observation- they all share the environment after all.

As for live bait size, like Yowie said they'll eat whatever comes into range, often things as long as they are. I've caught them on foot long Yellowtail set for bigger fish and they've had a few inches of the tail sticking out of their mouths- you wouldn't be able to push the Yellowtail totally within them, but they certainly took them.

Personal favourite baits are Mado's and Trumpeters (so use a tiny piece of peeled prawn for baitfish bait rather than the old favourite hamburger mince for Yellowtail). I reckon that JD are well versed with eating these 'less desirable' species because they can probably catch them easier than the speedy Yellowtail and no doubt eat them much of the time. Small Black Spinefoot ('Black Trevally') are also a common stomach contents as are small Reddies/Luderick/Tarwhine.

I like a Mado in the 7-8 cm range if I can get one and they are common around wharves, pylons etc. Slack tide either high or low is the best time. When I was in my teens, once Autumn/Winter was upon us, JD could be relied upon to turn up at old favourite Zoo wharf on the slack tides.

Don't forget to use light leader and put your 2/0 suicide through the mouth of the bait and out through the front of the eye socket for best practice.- and good luck! they are well worth the effort if you like eating fish, in my opinion Australia's best eating fish

 

Thanks for all the the tips fellas @Yowie & @wazatherfisherman

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On 4/10/2022 at 6:32 PM, Yowie said:

Different places without too much tidal run.

Have not caught dory in the Hacking for some years (have not fished for them for some time) but pulled them out of Gunnamatta, Burraneer, Dolans, Yowie bays, S/W Arm, N/W Arm, Lilli Pilli so they move about.

I am getting excited for this winter, will definitely have to try this winter for the Dory. Will probably go around SWA and Yowie bay.

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10 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

No worries Mike- any info you need just ask. With Dory it's only about the eating of them! Leatherjacket probably fight harder!

If I manage to get onto one, I will be yelling at the top of my lungs! That will be a victorious day.

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3 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

No worries Mike- any info you need just ask. With Dory it's only about the eating of them! Leatherjacket probably fight harder!

Waza, Not to mention they are a spectacular looking fish!

challenge accepted fellas! @Little_Flatty & @Isaac Ct by the end of winter we will all be posting our pics! 😂 

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1 minute ago, Larkin said:

Waza, Not to mention they are a spectacular looking fish!

challenge accepted fellas! @Little_Flatty & @Isaac Ct by the end of winter we will all be posting our pics! 😂 

Hi Larkin they are indeed a spectacular creature especially with all fins extended and they have large interesting eyes. They also 'croak' while in your bag after capture- no hiding them from those who know the noise. Hope it's a good year for them this year, certainly don't hear much about them these days.

Get those Mado's out fellas because they don't get the attention from everything else- which become "pest-species" while after Dory!

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14 hours ago, Larkin said:

Waza, Not to mention they are a spectacular looking fish!

challenge accepted fellas! @Little_Flatty & @Isaac Ct by the end of winter we will all be posting our pics! 😂 

I hope so, might even try and see if my mum will let me head out early tomorrow and get some lives from the boat ramp and target some bigger fish. I have heard that big flatties don't mind a trumpeter either.

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My most consistent catches are when I target Flathead around this time of the year, it's common to pull up a Flathead with a Dory hanging on, I fish in about 30m of water this time of the year, so maybe they hang around before heading into harbours and places like that.

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