Night Time Luderick and Surgeons

[Kracka]

G'day Raiders.

Now that the Luderick are in the spot light over the next few months we will see a tonne more reports and tips about these bronzed brawlers - probably some bigger biceps too from hauling these fellas in.

However, a question that isn't ever really covered in fishing magazines and rarely on forums is targeting these beauties at night time.

In the past, I have caught a couple of Luderick while fishing for bream at night over the flats up at The Entrance on live Nippers and prawn baits. From what I have read on a few past forums is that it is definitely not unheard of being able to catch luderick at night on pipis, worm, prawn and nipper baits while targeting other species such as bream and whiting. Due to the fact that blackie angling is a float-dependant style of fishing (with the exception of pussyfooting from the rocks) it makes them a target primarily throughout the day. Naturally, we don't use weed baits at night as we target other species such as Mulloway and bream.

I haven't been able to test this yet but I will look into it the next night outing I get and let you all know how it goes -  this weekend...HOPEFULLY. Figured I'd ask first to either maximise the chance or find out if I would be wasting my time.

I would assume heavy burlying is required as weed, unlike prawn and nipper baits, don't carry much of a scent (I assume). If luderick fish by sight, fishing around a well lit wharf such as Balmain would be a better option, too.

Has anyone had any experience successfully targeting blackfish (EDIT: Or even surgeonfish) at night using weed baits?

Edited June 5, 2018 by Kracka
forgot to add information

[Oldfella]

Hi Kracka;

You will catch a lot of luderick at night on yabbies , worms shrimps etc.

A good idea is to reduce your hook sizes.

Years ago it was set in concrete to use a 2/0 for bream.

Many were the grizzles about missing bites.

One old bloke told me to try using a #1 0r 2.

Guess what??

A lot of the " bream " were rather large luderick!!

Do not worry about missing bites.

They hit as hard as a bream.

Personally I do not worry about berley.

Being sneaky I fish where people have been pumping yabbies in daylight.

As the tide rises the fish come over the bottom to pick up the small shells  etc stirred up.

Give it a try.

Cheers.

Oldfella.

 

[Kracka]

Thanks Oldfella. Ill definitely give it a go using the nippers.

Its reassuring to know they bite throughout the night. Thank you.

And a very clever aneaky tactic fishing where people have been pumping nippers. Its genius!

Would they take a weed bait at night, out of curiosity?

[wazatherfisherman]

G'day again, the same old fisho(Wally) I referred to re Snapper on Luderick gut, caught Luderick on conventional tackle and cabbage while we were still throwing out Pilchards and Gars for Tailor, when it was too dark to see your float properly. He showed us how to put a "3 layer streamer" on (about a 5 inch bait with the hook 1 inch from the bottom) Fishing fixed float in a wash with a strong pull, you just hold your rod up and keep a relatively tight line as your centrepin releases line- the take is similar to a Bream and it became a technique that I later used with great success when bobby-corking Luderick in the Mattens "lake", albeit in daylight hours. The Luderick would go off green in this location every year for around 4 weeks from the end of September to mid to late October when they were in full roe and we used to get them then with cunje and sometimes bread in the daytime or cunje and yabbies/fresh peeled green prawns at night. As Oldfella says you just go down hook size to a size 2- they run with the cunje just the same as a Bream does. Allan Skelton the legendary float maker from Bronte gave me a float that was a "leftover" from an order he made for someone which had a tube to put a cyalume stick in it-it was made for Luderick The evidence for them feeding on green at night in the harbour comes from having local weed patches where we'd been getting our bait completely "disappear' between dusk when we'd left and dawn on re-arrival. The fish were there and we caught them fishing shallow(about 6 ft) just a few metres from where the weed had been growing. A whole patch about 4 x 6 metres  of beautiful weed would be gone on the one large high tide during the night. Also caught them at Yamba on the middle wall night fishing for Bream with bloodworms and peeled prawns plenty of times

[masterfisho7]

Great report I fish for luderick but I have never tried at night but I believe nippers would work 

[Berleyguts]

My son took my wife fishing last winter at about 4am from a nearby rock wall. My son had been catching plenty of leatherjackets on small pieces of cooked prawn and wanted to try earlier in the morning around the tide change. They got a couple of jackets but my wife caught an estimated 50cm luderick on a piece of cooked prawn, size 10 long shank hook and a split shot. Of course, she wouldn’t touch it and it flipped back off the rocks into the water before my son could grab it. I’ve thought of targeting them in the dark - for the bigger fellas.

[wazatherfisherman]

Forgot to mention green nippers('pistol' prawns) shrimps and squirt worms- for those that don't know, squirties are smaller, thinner worms that are often found when pumping nippers and are usually 5-10 cm long, only 2-4 mm thick and have softer bodies than say a tube or bloodworm. They range in colour from light brown to red to green(green ones super soft) and you usually need to put a couple on much smaller gauge hooks  to accommodate their thin body. From my experience all estuary fish love them including Luderick. As for green nippers, when I was out scrounging weed in the bays around Fivedock and Drummoyne I always managed to collect half a dozen to a dozen by turning rocks over in the mud along the shoreline- the nippers are sitting under the rocks that are in only a couple of mm's of water and reveal their presence by a movement in the muddy/cloudy water. They have a body composition like a prawn, with thin shell and similar colouration(lightish greeny-brown)but are more the shape of a freshwater yabby. These were highly prized as bait for Bream larger Whiting and also Luderick. A biggish one would be about 4 cm long, mostly they'd be in the 2-3 cm range  As far as collecting them these days, you'd have to check local regulations re "defacing the foreshores" as a council ranger from Drummoyne council told me that it was no longer allowed. I've heard that in some locations they are pumped but have never got one myself when pumping nippers. Shrimps are also top bait when fishing places like Narrabeen lake, you simply substitute the shrimps for your usual weed bait, just put 2 on your hook on conventional float rig, however be prepared to catch plenty of other species as like squirties, most lake species will take them. I did really well with them at Narrabeen a couple of times while those using weed never got a down even though the Luderick were there in large numbers and bit freely on the shrimp. The shrimps are easily caught by pushing a prawn net through the weedy surrounds of coastal lakes and quickly moving your net out of the water as they are so small (1-2 cm) that they'll fall through the net- most are trapped with the weed you get in the net.    My apologies Raiders for getting off track with this as Kracka's original query was re Luderick on weed at night, I just thought this extra information may be useful. Cheers Waza

[Kracka]

Thanks for the feedback Raiders, much appreciated.

I gave them a go on weed last outing a week or so back 3 hours prior to first light and had only had two downs but the float was difficult to see as my headlight ran out of battery ? forgot to bring the spares...

The peeled prawns worked well...no blackies...plenty of bream and jackets around though.

Wazza i know what u mean about the little green nippers/clickers. I used to collect them up at Nelson Bay to target the big bluenose bream lurking about. They love em. Only ever managed the bream and some thumper trevs on em though. Ill see if i can collect a few for the blackies. Thanks!

[wazatherfisherman]

3 minutes ago, Kracka said:

Thanks for the feedback Raiders, much appreciated.

I gave them a go on weed last outing a week or so back 3 hours prior to first light and had only had two downs but the float was difficult to see as my headlight ran out of battery ? forgot to bring the spares...

The peeled prawns worked well...no blackies...plenty of bream and jackets around though.

Wazza i know what u mean about the little green nippers/clickers. I used to collect them up at Nelson Bay to target the big bluenose bream lurking about. They love em. Only ever managed the bream and some thumper trevs on em though. Ill see if i can collect a few for the blackies. Thanks!

Blackies love them, trouble is so does everything else!  In Sydney, I reckon they'd probably be "safer" from other species if you put them under your float, same as shrimps. Most blokes have shaken their heads at me putting a shrimp on my hook instead of weed but I reckon that shrimps are the best bet after weed/cabbage. If you've been using Mona Vale pool weed and they aren't biting on that, they're a likely candidate on any of these other baits as that weed has always been revered by all the Luderick fishers I know- it has all the qualities you want and is usually the best weed in Sydney. Next time your out that way, spend 10 mins at Narrabeen and get some of those shrimps- the lake is usually teeming with them- and try them under your float, they take them aggressively and you can strike straight away. I still mainly fish with flatted snecks  and they are an easy hook to use with shrimps

[Oldfella]

Hi Waza;

Just remember now the weather is getting cold the temperature of the water in the Lake drops and all the residents get the sulks.

Shrimps may still be about but not in the quantities  that there are during the Summer.

Have to agree Mona Vale weed is top stuff.

But I just hope you will not get selfish people taking buckets of the stuff!!

I am ex Mona Vale and fished off there since I was a kid until we moved to Tassie.

Miss a session off the baths still,

Cheers.

Roger.

[Kracka]

1 hour ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Blackies love them, trouble is so does everything else!  In Sydney, I reckon they'd probably be "safer" from other species if you put them under your float, same as shrimps. Most blokes have shaken their heads at me putting a shrimp on my hook instead of weed but I reckon that shrimps are the best bet after weed/cabbage. If you've been using Mona Vale pool weed and they aren't biting on that, they're a likely candidate on any of these other baits as that weed has always been revered by all the Luderick fishers I know- it has all the qualities you want and is usually the best weed in Sydney. Next time your out that way, spend 10 mins at Narrabeen and get some of those shrimps- the lake is usually teeming with them- and try them under your float, they take them aggressively and you can strike straight away. I still mainly fish with flatted snecks  and they are an easy hook to use with shrimps

Sounds great thanks Wazza. Ill collect some next time im around Narrabeen. Ive got my prawn net handy at all times now since its a long handled net.

At least if the blackies dont go for that...youre guaranteed something else will take the shrimp. Weed doesnt really offer that luxury unfortunately. Thanks for your help ?

[Kracka]

54 minutes ago, Oldfella said:

Hi Waza;

Just remember now the weather is getting cold the temperature of the water in the Lake drops and all the residents get the sulks.

Shrimps may still be about but not in the quantities  that there are during the Summer.

Have to agree Mona Vale weed is top stuff.

But I just hope you will not get selfish people taking buckets of the stuff!!

I am ex Mona Vale and fished off there since I was a kid until we moved to Tassie.

Miss a session off the baths still,

Cheers.

Roger.

Mona vale is a top spot for weed. I guess theres blackies to be had off the rocks there too? Never fished it.

Theres tonnes of weed in other places too like curl curl and manly which is always great as sometimes the council does a thorough cleanup of these pools, removing every sceric of weed they find ?.

Usually a handful, three tops, is enough for a few hour session...burley included.

[wazatherfisherman]

4 hours ago, Oldfella said:

Hi Waza;

Just remember now the weather is getting cold the temperature of the water in the Lake drops and all the residents get the sulks.

Shrimps may still be about but not in the quantities  that there are during the Summer.

Have to agree Mona Vale weed is top stuff.

But I just hope you will not get selfish people taking buckets of the stuff!!

I am ex Mona Vale and fished off there since I was a kid until we moved to Tassie.

Miss a session off the baths still,

Cheers.

Roger.

Hi Roger good advice re weed and shrimps- whenever I get weed I only take a handful or two as bag limit for Blackies over here is 10 now. When collecting shrimps at the lake I've caught some really interesting things in the net, 1 inch long Blackies, heaps of half inch leatherjacket, flounder as small as a 20c coin, tiny garfish etc. The lake has been closed a fair bit the last year also. Cheers Waza

[Berleyguts]

Re green nippers: I seem to recall collecting them as a young fella by “muddling” for them amongst weed beds with my feet.

[wazatherfisherman]

2 hours ago, Berleyguts said:

Re green nippers: I seem to recall collecting them as a young fella by “muddling” for them amongst weed beds with my feet.

I thought there had to be a better way than turning rocks over! I was going to ask on here if anyone knew a better/other method of getting them, so thanks Baz. Couple of guys reckon they've pumped them but I've never seen one pumped. Other than worms, pink nippers and soldier crabs the only other things I've seen pumped are those weird looking wormy things that look like an elongated 'nipple' on one end with about a foot long 'arm' on the other end. Got told they were mangrove worms- looked more like a plant than an animal

[Berleyguts]

6 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

I thought there had to be a better way than turning rocks over! I was going to ask on here if anyone knew a better/other method of getting them, so thanks Baz. Couple of guys reckon they've pumped them but I've never seen one pumped. Other than worms, pink nippers and soldier crabs the only other things I've seen pumped are those weird looking wormy things that look like an elongated 'nipple' on one end with about a foot long 'arm' on the other end. Got told they were mangrove worms- looked more like a plant than an animal

Yeah, just find the weed amongst the mud and move your feet up and down in the same spot, forming a puddle. They’ll swim to the top to try and get out of the muddy water.

[wazatherfisherman]

8 hours ago, Berleyguts said:

Yeah, just find the weed amongst the mud and move your feet up and down in the same spot, forming a puddle. They’ll swim to the top to try and get out of the muddy water.

Thanks that's an excellent tip!