Tailor migration

[JewCraze]

Hello raiders,

 

OK, so I've read on the internet that every year during the winter months tailors from nsw migrate up north to Fraser Island to spawn. I've read that as they travel up north they might stop by the northern beaches along the way. My question is: Does this mean the chance of hooking up legal size tailors in our estuaries during winter will be significantly reduced? Also, what happens to the tailors spawned in Fraser Island? Do they travel back down to nsw and enter our estuaries during summer?

Thanks in advance!

 

JewCraze

Edited June 20, 2018 by JewCraze

[Aardvarking]

I would say that winter is the best time to catch tailor in the estuaries. In fact, I caught my first tailor over 40cm as a bream by-catch a couple weeks ago at Blackwattle bay. Usually I only get choppers there, but in winter I catch some bigger ones too. I'm not sure exactly why that is, but it's just my experience of it

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi JewCraze not sure what happens to them after they leave Fraser Island area, but can tell you that the Sydney Metropolitan Division fishing clubs annual estuary championships used to be held in May and the rock championships were held in mid to late June/ early July. The significance of this to your question is that these dates were always selected to coincide with the largest volume of fish movement/abundance. Well before the days of bag limits, these comps ran from 3pm Saturday until about 1-2pm Sunday, if you didn't get at least a couple of hundred Tailor, you wouldn't run in the top 30 fishers, so great was the volume of and abundance of Tailor. They are still around in numbers, albeit lesser in size, from my experience until about August. Hairtail fishers usually catch plenty throughout the winter also and I've seen some really big ones caught by guys fishing for big Mulloway also through this time. Smiths Creek is worth trolling for large Tailor in July early August for example.They used to re-appear around end of November in larger numbers, but there always seem to be a few that don't for whatever reason do the migration thing. Cheers Waza

[JewCraze]

Thank you so much guys! 

 

I don't have a boat so my options are restricted to land based only. I'm thinking about either going to narrabeen beach, the rock cliff to the right of the aquatic reserve at shelly beach (which I've never been too but my colleague told me he caught quite a lot there, but I've also been told a bit of a climb is required and it's a bit dangerous) , or just try hawkesbury river (e.g. berowra waters, mooney boat ramp, or brooklyn). I guess I'll have to make up my mind which one to try first.

 

JewCraze

[wazatherfisherman]

Narrabeen is a good option, if you go to the spot past the aquatic reserve you need safety gear ie:  plates- it's an easy climb down the natural gully. A couple of spots in the harbour you could try this time of year are East Balmain wharf of a night and pier 2 at Walsh Bay. Closer to the heads you could try the flat ledges between Lady Jane beach and Camp Cove- you fish with bobby cork along there or on the bottom or weightless at Balmain and pier 2. Hope this helps and best of luck. Cheers Waza

[masterfisho7]

I fish the Parramatta River there  has been a lot of Salmon but I have not seen any Tailor for weeks in the harbour . 

[PaddyT]

They certainly do migrate north but not all the fish go, summer in the Sydney areas is dominated by choppers, bigger fish in Autumn and then its a lottery in winter, some of the stay behind fish can be a really good size- like Waz said there are some good ones in Cowan creek in winter, then again the biggest tailor i ever caught was a 4 kg model at Christmas spinning for bonnies at Avoca (I was about 15 years old and still havent beaten that one)- like Waz said a lot used to get killed in the pre bag limit days- certainly can remember plenty of 100 plus days myself, i dont think numbers are anything like they used to be and once salmon stopped getting hammered by the pros when the cannery closed in Eden and the kings made a come back I get the feeling these two species have pushed the tailor out of there slot in the ecosystem- 25 years ago i caught a lot more tailor than now, salmon were pretty rare around Sydney (if you read some old time books and magazines the northern end of their habitat was considered to be Newcastle) and kings had been hammered very badly by the pros and the floating traps they used. These days i drive away from the salmon (most days) and if i catch two undersize kings in a row i change spots so i dont waste my livies. Tailor are a great fish once they get up around the 1.5-2kg mark and its a shame (mine included for killing so many of them in years past) they arent a bit thicker on the ground.

[JewCraze]

Awesome! Thanks again everyone for all your replies! ?

[wazatherfisherman]

5 hours ago, PaddyT said:

They certainly do migrate north but not all the fish go, summer in the Sydney areas is dominated by choppers, bigger fish in Autumn and then its a lottery in winter, some of the stay behind fish can be a really good size- like Waz said there are some good ones in Cowan creek in winter, then again the biggest tailor i ever caught was a 4 kg model at Christmas spinning for bonnies at Avoca (I was about 15 years old and still havent beaten that one)- like Waz said a lot used to get killed in the pre bag limit days- certainly can remember plenty of 100 plus days myself, i dont think numbers are anything like they used to be and once salmon stopped getting hammered by the pros when the cannery closed in Eden and the kings made a come back I get the feeling these two species have pushed the tailor out of there slot in the ecosystem- 25 years ago i caught a lot more tailor than now, salmon were pretty rare around Sydney (if you read some old time books and magazines the northern end of their habitat was considered to be Newcastle) and kings had been hammered very badly by the pros and the floating traps they used. These days i drive away from the salmon (most days) and if i catch two undersize kings in a row i change spots so i dont waste my livies. Tailor are a great fish once they get up around the 1.5-2kg mark and its a shame (mine included for killing so many of them in years past) they arent a bit thicker on the ground.

G'day PaddyT totally agree with what you've said, these days it's almost like the Tailor and Salmon ratios have 'reversed'- where you used to get a bag of Tailor with a couple of Salmon, it seems common now that this is the other way round. The Salmon 'distribution' was thought to end as you say around Newcastle with the great spawning aggregations in Stockton Bight, catching them far north of there(to my knowledge) was not really a common occurrence. During the 1st week of the Sydney Olympics in 2000 I was beach fishing at Wooli north of Coffs Harbour with several mates from Murwillumbah who were keen beach fisho's. Standing on the top of the sand dune at the holiday-house front door, we spotted a single bird diving repeatedly in the wash-zone close to the beach, although we hadn't even unpacked most of the stuff in the cars, I raced down there with a handful of metals and bang, from the first (and every) cast, Salmon after Salmon. This greatly excited my Murwillumbah mates as they'd never caught or even encountered one before this. Over the next few years, they started catching Salmon, even up as far as Wooyung, which is only about 35km  from the Qld border, so all of a sudden the 'distribution' changed? I reckon you're more on the money, with less comercial take of them and more efficient methods of commercial fishing, plus the wholesale slaughter that everybody took part in- we just didn't realise-  that the Tailor numbers have dropped so alarmingly over the last 20 years.

[Welster]

As a kid 35 ? years ago.   Fishing in the bay with my parents tailor seemed to make up the vast majority of our catch.   They did seem more plentiful than now especially considering the bay was commercially fished as well.

[fragmeister]

10 hours ago, PaddyT said:

They certainly do migrate north but not all the fish go, summer in the Sydney areas is dominated by choppers, bigger fish in Autumn and then its a lottery in winter, some of the stay behind fish can be a really good size- like Waz said there are some good ones in Cowan creek in winter, then again the biggest tailor i ever caught was a 4 kg model at Christmas spinning for bonnies at Avoca (I was about 15 years old and still havent beaten that one)- like Waz said a lot used to get killed in the pre bag limit days- certainly can remember plenty of 100 plus days myself, i dont think numbers are anything like they used to be and once salmon stopped getting hammered by the pros when the cannery closed in Eden and the kings made a come back I get the feeling these two species have pushed the tailor out of there slot in the ecosystem- 25 years ago i caught a lot more tailor than now, salmon were pretty rare around Sydney (if you read some old time books and magazines the northern end of their habitat was considered to be Newcastle) and kings had been hammered very badly by the pros and the floating traps they used. These days i drive away from the salmon (most days) and if i catch two undersize kings in a row i change spots so i dont waste my livies. Tailor are a great fish once they get up around the 1.5-2kg mark and its a shame (mine included for killing so many of them in years past) they arent a bit thicker on the ground.

Hi Paddy... you and I must have read the same books.

Some of the earliest accounts tell of salmon so thick in the southern estuaries that they would turn the rivers black for kilometres upstream.

Certainly, I recall catching a lot more Tailor than Salmon off Sydney beaches going back 3o years and again, I have to agree with both you and Wazza that this seems to have reversed in recent years.

As an aside... has anyone tasted canned Australian Salmon?  It really just tastes like very dry Tuna with a somewhat more stringy texture. It seems the canning process must impart that tinned fish taste we associate with Tuna on other fish that are canned.

Anyway,

Great posting boys... I for one like to see some in-depth posting and accounts of fishing in "the old days".

Apart from the reminiscing, I think that it gives the younger members a perspective of what has been lost and what has changed.

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

 

[wazatherfisherman]

42 minutes ago, fragmeister said:

Hi Paddy... you and I must have read the same books.

Some of the earliest accounts tell of salmon so thick in the southern estuaries that they would turn the rivers black for kilometres upstream.

Certainly, I recall catching a lot more Tailor than Salmon off Sydney beaches going back 3o years and again, I have to agree with both you and Wazza that this seems to have reversed in recent years.

As an aside... has anyone tasted canned Australian Salmon?  It really just tastes like very dry Tuna with a somewhat more stringy texture. It seems the canning process must impart that tinned fish taste we associate with Tuna on other fish that are canned.

Anyway,

Great posting boys... I for one like to see some in-depth posting and accounts of fishing in "the old days".

Apart from the reminiscing, I think that it gives the younger members a perspective of what has been lost and what has changed.

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

 

G'day Jim yes I've had the tinned Aus Salmon and I didn't mind it- funny thing is, you couldn't pay me to cook a fresh one. We used to call them "4 doors down" or "round the corner fish" as the lesser known neighbours (that always pestered for extra fish) were usually given them and "Blurters" (Silver Trevally) No offence to anyone who likes them, especially our Kiwi brothers who really enjoy them. Ah the 'old days', you are so right about what has been lost, however I think fishers (particularly the young ones) have become SO much more aware of the environmental aspects of our sport that there is great hope for the longevity of our remaining stocks. Once upon a time, nobody would release a Mulloway for example, my understanding these days is that more are released than kept- which is fantastic. There are also heaps more fisho's that are sensitive to the safer handling of caught fish that are destined for return. Using the examples that PaddyT suggested- Salmon and Kingy's, which have both made HUGE 'comebacks' as a starting point, perhaps some of the other species will be able to recover also. Sydney Harbour prawns were also on the verge of 'extinction' with habitat destruction, sediment contamination and gross overfishing, but since the cessation of trawling in the harbour, they also have made an increased return. The prawn information came directly from a fisheries biologist who told me of his initial concern at the 'disappearance' of the wild stock- which he said were virtually  extinct and then the relief that there were increasing numbers again only 3 years after the last allowable trawling in 2006. Bonito also seem to still be around in large numbers throughout the season, it's only about 4 years ago that there was a "school" of bonnies that started around the Opera house and went all the way throughout the lower reaches of the harbour and all along the coast from Barrenjoey to Jibbon they were so thick that getting 2 on the one deep-diving minnow was reasonably common.  Examples such as this are heartening, however, having said all this, it is sometimes difficult to explain to newer or younger fishers how good it was less than 30 years ago, when you'd only rarely go fishing and return without your target species, especially Tailor.  Regards Waza

[Volitan]

3 hours ago, fragmeister said:

As an aside... has anyone tasted canned Australian Salmon?  It really just tastes like very dry Tuna with a somewhat more stringy texture. It seems the canning process must impart that tinned fish taste we associate with Tuna on other fish that are canned.

That’s a worry. I was hoping they would taste terrible canned. Does it mean we now need to worry about an industry developing around canning salmon and a consequent ravaging of the population - again.

[dirvin21]

3 hours ago, fragmeister said:

 

Great posting boys... I for one like to see some in-depth posting and accounts of fishing in "the old days".

Apart from the reminiscing, I think that it gives the younger members a perspective of what has been lost and what has changed.

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

 

When I was far younger I used to fish with my uncle in Copeton and Pindari dams and the surrounding rivers, the prospect of releasing a fish was unheard of, some massive cod used to end up in my uncles freezer not to mention cricket scores of yellabelly (70 being the biggest haul I personally know of). I will always remember his disgust when bag limits were introduced. This was a generally accepted practice as most people like my uncle had been raised where fishing was a food source.

[PaddyT]

Yep we all suffered from blood lust in the past , but most fishers seem to have learnt from that and we really should be focused on making our friends, aquaintances and the pollies realise that we are responsible custodians of our recreation. Kingfish and salmon have made a massive comeback, certain areas have made a massive comeback since the reduction of commercial effort and better pollution controls. Tailor can come back, they should be a rec only species- a path that the DPI wont look at for fear of setting a precident. They are pretty average eating and very average if not super fresh-bag limit of 5 is more than enough i reckon. 

[JonD]

Tailor are pretty rare down in my area compared to 10 years ago, back then they were pretty common on every beach session. Now those same locations may show 2-3 fish in a year, what's really strange is this lack of fish has declined since the introduction of the marine parks down here.

Im not convinced the blood lust of the past is over, with the bluefin kicking in well down here there are still people who seem to be hell bent on getting their bag limits on these 80kg fish, then head back out to do the same the next day.  Speaking with one guy at the cleaning tables yesterday who had two big tuna and doesn't eat fish, at 4pm he was trying to give it away, at 7.15pm he was still a the ramp. Passing by the ramp this morning that same guy was out again and the car park was full.  There might not be quite as much of the Facebook postings of big kills but I can assure it's still happening.

I was recently speaking with spearfishers at the big Eden comp who complained how the fish don't come in like they used to, when I mentioned it's maybe something to do with big old breeding fish being taken they wouldn't have a bar of it, simply the fish don't come in anymore.

 

[PaddyT]

I hear you Jon, the desire to kill is still there for a lot of folk but most of the guys I fish with are of a similar view as myself- kill what you personally need and then go do something else. I very rarely "kill something for the neighbours" or anyone else for that matter. The bluefin run seems to bring out the worst in a few folks just as some spearfishers seem to take too much. Spearfishing is a pretty minor activity so I would guess that its overall impact is not massive on fish such as kings/pelagics etc- the impact on non migratory species can be devestating which is why spearing for groper is banned. Slot limits for lots of species would be a good idea but the powers that be would rather manage by bringing in lock out zones (which as anyone who knows me would testify I find appaling)

[JonD]

11 hours ago, PaddyT said:

I hear you Jon, the desire to kill is still there for a lot of folk but most of the guys I fish with are of a similar view as myself- kill what you personally need and then go do something else. I very rarely "kill something for the neighbours" or anyone else for that matter. The bluefin run seems to bring out the worst in a few folks just as some spearfishers seem to take too much. Spearfishing is a pretty minor activity so I would guess that its overall impact is not massive on fish such as kings/pelagics etc- the impact on non migratory species can be devestating which is why spearing for groper is banned. Slot limits for lots of species would be a good idea but the powers that be would rather manage by bringing in lock out zones (which as anyone who knows me would testify I find appaling)

Fishing for grouper should be and I suspect soon will be banned even for anglers, simply because these are one of urchins top predators. I was recently helping scientists on reefs where good populations of large blue groupers were plentiful, the way these fish can chomp through large sized urchins one after another is amazing. Large snapper also feed on urchin but these fish are now becoming very rare in the sizes needed to tackle urchins.

Spearfishing gets a pretty poor reputation from a few people who don't respect the sport. My daughter represents Australia spearing and is also sponsored by an international company but she is far from a big fish killer, infact the fish she targets are extremely selective. A day out with the rod and line could end with dozens of hooked fish, many undersize, some baratrauma, some deeply hooked, some taken by seals or sharks etc etc. Then there's the impact of soft plastics, lead and other gear we anglers constantly seem to be replacing, the list here goes on and on,  Now compare that to the skill needed to settle on the bottom at 20m and sellect only the fish you want and just enough for a feed and the spear hunting doesn't look quite so bad. Take a look at this https://www.theinertia.com/environment/why-spearfishing-isnt-all-just-blood-and-guts/. Yep there are those who who are greedy in all warps of life but there are also many who want to see change to improve what we have left. 

Spearfishing is a no go area on this forum but like it or not if anglers, scientists, spearfishers, fisheries, comercial fishers etc can't communicate together then we are going to end up blaming each other and never improve what's left.

 

 

 

[Scratchie]

The winter months are certainly the best time for them. There numbers are in volume so much so that they wrecked my night snapper fishing two weeks ago! We probably boated 30 of them all well over 30cm plus and lost quite a few hooks as well. But they are a fish you can catch all year round in estuaries and off headlands in NSW. 

Cheers scratchie!!! 

[PaddyT]

18 hours ago, JonD said:

Fishing for grouper should be and I suspect soon will be banned even for anglers, simply because these are one of urchins top predators. I was recently helping scientists on reefs where good populations of large blue groupers were plentiful, the way these fish can chomp through large sized urchins one after another is amazing. Large snapper also feed on urchin but these fish are now becoming very rare in the sizes needed to tackle urchins.

Spearfishing gets a pretty poor reputation from a few people who don't respect the sport. My daughter represents Australia spearing and is also sponsored by an international company but she is far from a big fish killer, infact the fish she targets are extremely selective. A day out with the rod and line could end with dozens of hooked fish, many undersize, some baratrauma, some deeply hooked, some taken by seals or sharks etc etc. Then there's the impact of soft plastics, lead and other gear we anglers constantly seem to be replacing, the list here goes on and on,  Now compare that to the skill needed to settle on the bottom at 20m and sellect only the fish you want and just enough for a feed and the spear hunting doesn't look quite so bad. Take a look at this https://www.theinertia.com/environment/why-spearfishing-isnt-all-just-blood-and-guts/. Yep there are those who who are greedy in all warps of life but there are also many who want to see change to improve what we have left. 

Spearfishing is a no go area on this forum but like it or not if anglers, scientists, spearfishers, fisheries, comercial fishers etc can't communicate together then we are going to end up blaming each other and never improve what's left.

 

 

 

No problem with spearing Jon at all, but i got no problem with someone taking a groper for a feed either- they were absolutly hammered back in the 60's and 70's and actually had a no take policy for about 10 years and made a huge comeback- hardly anyone fishes for them these days anyway- not trendy enough methinks! Very interesting article this month in Fishing World about snapper- some of the historical stuff is mind boggling when you read what was taken back in the early 20th century using very unsophisticated boats and gear! we have lost a lot thats for sure