kingfish setups

[Flattiefisher]

hey there fish raiders, I was just wondering if anyone knew some affordable kingfish combos. I will be fishing off the rocks with a price rang of $100-$200. if you have any information I would love to here it. cheers flattiefisher out.

[savit]

Flattiefisher, are you looking for lure or bait setup? 

Also,  the above mentioned shop is quite expensive one. Even their bargain area always gave me laugh. They have good service and variety of tackle, however it is not a place for budget shopping from my observation. 

Check Dinga's (forum sponsor , price beat, usually lowest prices + 5% fishraider discount on top and free delivery) and usual camping fishing chain stores  prices (sales season now) when you make your mind on setup.

Edited June 25, 2018 by savit

[Scratchie]

Just a reminder guys about links to non site sponsors. Please pm the member to any links of that nature. 

Regards scratchie mod team 

[DerekD]

As Savit said - lure or bait?

I have a couple of outfits I use for kings but they don't cross over overly well.

If I I am fishing lure I like using my Shimano Snapper Raider 762 (7 foot 6 inces 2 piece) 5-8kg 15-45gram lure weight matched with a Shimano Stradic 4000 and 15lb braid. It is on the lighter side of what some would use for kings but allows me to work the lures well and not feel like I have been working out at the gym for several hours. I can put out a lighter bait on this but won't be casting out a whole large squid. The rod can be found for a little over $100 on special and if you match it up with an entry level Shimano (Say a Sienna or a Sedona) it comes close to your budget.

My other go to is a Shimano Aquatip rod (soft fibreglass tip) rated 6 - 10kg and a Shimano Baitrunner 4500 with 20lb line which is good for banging baits out there but is hard work for flicking lures. I have seen combo outfits like this well inside your budget.

I have recently picked up a Daiwa Saltist Hyper 9 foot plus rod which has a PE6 rating and will cast lures 60gm to 150gm as I wanted something to take over where the Raider finished up. It is hard work and at $300 or so for the rod alone plus the cost of the Speros 14000 complete with 50lb line it is well out of your budget but will give you an idea of other options out there.

I also own a Shimano Revolution 3 piece traveller which is rated up to 50lb line but allows me to cast big baits up to 200gm. The Spheros 14000 I mentioned above jumps between 3 different rods and I have a second spool for it with 80lb line for the boat rod.

Work out what you want to do and the advice will get better.

Regards,

Derek

Edited June 26, 2018 by DerekD

[PaddyT]

For that budget an Alvey 650 and a 2nd hand surf rod , load it up with 40lb mono and chuck out a live squid under a bobby cork

[connico]

Look at Fin Nor Lethal or Offshore for a quality yet affordable reel... Pair this with a Penn Prevail or a Daiwa sweepfire and you got a setup for under $200 that will handle kingies

[mrsswordfisherman]

@masterfisho7 and @kingie chaser please ask that company to contact fishraider regarding sponsorship if they wish to advertise or shoot me a pm 

 

[kingie chaser]

33 minutes ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

@masterfisho7 and @kingie chaser please ask that company to contact fishraider regarding sponsorship if they wish to advertise or shoot me a pm 

 

So no product links of any kind on the forum unless its from one of your forum sponsors??

 

Just to clarify, e.g. is showing a reel or rod on the Shimano or Diawa website ok as long as its not shop specific or not??  YES THE SAME AS THE OTHER MEMBERS HAVE DONE - QUOTE THE TACKLE AND LET THE POSTER GO FIND THE BEST PRICE  mrsswordie

Edited June 26, 2018 by mrsswordfisherman
Explanation of site rules

[mrsswordfisherman]

6 minutes ago, kingie chaser said:

So no product links of any kind on the forum unless its from one of your forum sponsors??

You can link to products on their websites. We have a sponsor DINGA who gives members discounts and will price match.

Fishraider has always and is still looking for good companies to sponsor or enter into partnerships to provide for members here. Get them to make contact

If you want to send that link to the poster then do so in a pm please

[kingie chaser]

4 minutes ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

You can link to products on their websites. We have a sponsor DINGA who gives members discounts and will price match.

Fishraider has always and is still looking for good companies to sponsor or enter into partnerships to provide for members here. Get them to make contact

If you want to send that link to the poster then do so in a pm please

No problem mrssf, I have never left links before so was unaware of your policy

I know it can be a grey area when you are trying to keep sponsors happy so wont happen again from me.

BTW I have no affiliation to any brand or store, I just shop where I am getting a good deal & usually only buy  thing on sale!

Good to know Dinga will price match though 

Edited June 26, 2018 by kingie chaser

[mrsswordfisherman]

Back to business - lets get Flattiefisher a good Kingie combo

 

[Flattiefisher]

thanks for your replies

[kingfishbig]

11 hours ago, Flattiefisher said:

thanks for your replies

It would help if you tell us if you are live baiting or spinning for kingfish as the outfits needed are very different. 

[PaddyT]

Alvey will do both, live bait and spinning with gars which is a very effective method

[kingfishbig]

I don't think an alvey would be very suitable, especially with a beach rod that gives away a lot in leverage. For live baiting a lever drag game reel is the go, at the cheaper end a Shimano TLD 25 or you could look second hand. For a rod to match you want a 7.5 to 8.5  ft LBG rod rated at 15-24 kg.

For spinning I would choose a threadline with a good drag, perhaps a Pfluger Salt in one of the larger 2 sizes and 50 lb braid. A GT style popper rod would be a good match. Given you budget have a look at the Gladiator heavy popper rod.

 

[PaddyT]

The blokes got a budget of 200, Alvey will do the job fine , cheapest eggbeater that will do what he wants is over $250- and it depends on the territory he wants to fish, short rods are fine on platforms like Jervis, Avoca etc but next to useless on the north coast ledges- and the OP is from Brissie- 

[kingfishbig]

28 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

The blokes got a budget of 200, Alvey will do the job fine , cheapest eggbeater that will do what he wants is over $250- and it depends on the territory he wants to fish, short rods are fine on platforms like Jervis, Avoca etc but next to useless on the north coast ledges- and the OP is from Brissie- 

I mentioned the Pfluger Salt and someone suggested a Fin Nor Lethal both have good drags and come in well under $200. Also for livebaiting I suggested looking second hand for an overhead. Yes you need to go a bit longer in rod length on the north coast but a 12ft beach rod will make little impact on a big kingie due to the leverage factor. Also an Alvey will be very unwieldy for constant spinning and also hampered with low retrieve rate and line twist. Overheads are more efficient for fighting big fish too. There is a reason you hardly ever see Alveys used for this style of fishing (either spinning or livebaiting).

Edited July 3, 2018 by kingfishbig

[wazatherfisherman]

On 7/4/2018 at 8:42 AM, kingfishbig said:

I mentioned the Pfluger Salt and someone suggested a Fin Nor Lethal both have good drags and come in well under $200. Also for livebaiting I suggested looking second hand for an overhead. Yes you need to go a bit longer in rod length on the north coast but a 12ft beach rod will make little impact on a big kingie due to the leverage factor. Also an Alvey will be very unwieldy for constant spinning and also hampered with low retrieve rate and line twist. Overheads are more efficient for fighting big fish too. There is a reason you hardly ever see Alveys used for this style of fishing (either spinning or livebaiting).

Sorry, just have to say something re Alvey's not being suitable for Kingfish. I live baited for Kingfish off the rocks for near enough to 20 years. Started off with plain 650 no drag 20lb mono- too light, caught a few, lost heaps. Next 30 lb mono, still lost a lot but caught a few more. Next 700 Alvey- no drag 40lb Weiss Perlon started catching them regularly but still lost many of the larger ones. Next 651 E5 Alvey- with drag but handles mounted on spool 48 lb Tortue- caught most only lost occasional one. As PaddyT said fine for spinning with gars and also for spinning giant minnow lures. When the "sports-fishing" bug struck, changed to Penn Senator 113H star drag, 20lb(lost too many) then 30lb mono, then Policansky lever drag 30lb mono, Losing them again. Back to 651 E5, only lost odd one again. Bought another E5 Alvey- standard 650 size 33lb Tortue(651 has super deep more reinforced spool holds 600+ metres of 50lb mono) for dual purpose live bait/ gar and minnow spinning. The E5 series in my opinion are the best Kingfish/Mulloway reels ever made for rock fishing. Don't think they are still available as like many Alvey's were made too well and will last owner a lifetime. Very rare to see an "E5" model on ebay and they always sell for a big price.  Good drag and trouble free. No question that lever drag overheads are miles ahead for Tuna etc. Almost ALL the live bait guys that fished Sydney cliffs and also Bluefish used Alvey's, not to mention most of the northern rivers wall Mulloway guys and original WA balloon fishers. Rods were from 81/2 to 10 foot (with the majority just over 9 foot)- "Butterworth" MT 9108,9120,9136 OR FSU6120, Silaflex FT70 with aluminium extension butt, Sportex 3904-6 and Fenwick LB1086, LB1206 were the"go-to" blanks for building the rods. Again, as Paddy said above, 2nd hand surf rod with a bit cut off the tip was also a popular alternative. As a side note, George Forrester of the AFA club used to jig for kings at the peak with a 725C52 Alvey and would sometimes get 30-40 fish in a day. You learn a great deal fighting fish with sidecast and centerpin reels and it's just my opinion, but having a 'stand-up' fight with a large fish in this style of fishing is really exciting. Sadly, Alvey fishermen seem to be a dying breed around Sydney and Alvey nearly closed last year, mainly because they made reels so well that they were 'handed-down' from father to son without needing to be replaced. Maybe you should borrow one and try it

[savit]

Thanks @wazatherfisherman   , a few questions please:

- How did you get rid of / reduce twist while spinning lures/garfish?

- What rod lengths did you use for LBG spinning with 650/651 size reel?

- Is smaller 600 size reel significantly weaker built than 650?

- Did you try geared GRC/GRBC reel models?

[wazatherfisherman]

3 minutes ago, savit said:

Thanks @wazatherfisherman   , a few questions please:

- How did you get rid of / reduce twist while spinning lures/garfish?

- What rod lengths did you use for LBG spinning with 650/651 size reel?

- Is smaller 600 size reel significantly weaker built than 650?

- Did you try geared GRC/GRBC reel models?

G'day Andrew the only thing you have to remember with using an Alvey is that there must be a swivel as the highest part of your rig, which is easy when spinning with gars or big minnows. A swivel on your mainline then about 2 feet of 15-25 kg leader then gangs or minnow style lure- minnow style don't spin, they wobble side to side but turning the reel around to sidecast position is what causes the twist. An easy way of describing the twist effect is to use a garden hose as an example. If you pull hose off it's drum or hose-reel straight off, it won't twist. If you pull loops off the side of the reel, when you pull hose back in you'll see that it has developed twist which needs to be straightened out as it won't go back on reel properly- if it does go on it looks uneven and slightly 'unsightly'. When beach fishing, the general rig of  sinker, bead, swivel, leader, hook always causes twist, but the advantages of the reel on the beach leave any other reel type miles behind. To combat the line twist issue on the beach, some people run their sinker between 2 swivels which works well for minimising twist and maximising casting distance, but takes away the ability to 'feed' line out and I use the former rig regardless of the inevitable twist. When beach fishing, it's pretty easy to cut your line, put your rig in your pocket and go for a walk along the beach, dropping your rig-less line in the water and walking off about 150 metres, then winding it back on through the water.If you do this on your walk away, then again on the way back, maintaining retrieving it through the water, it generally re-straightens your line. Doing this twice in a few hr's on the beach only takes a few minutes and prevents otherwise dreadful line snarls that result from the twist. Without doing it, this will always happen when there is anything above the swivel like sinker or bobby cork. The most commonly used rig for fishing the rocks anywhere around Sydney, for virtually everything is swivel 2 feet of leader with a running 0,01 or 1 size sinker straight onto the hook, if you get busted by a pig or snagged or 'leatherjacketed' you lose your hook and sinker but rarely your swivel and it's the most productive rig for most popular fish. For gars and pilly's same rig(heavier leader) and gangs with no lead. This pretty much negates twist from the start, with no need to do the 'un-twist' thing at all.  Correct swivel size is important, the smaller the better they work. Good general rule of thumb is to never have the gauge of the swivel wire thicker than the mono eg up to 11-12 kg line a size 8 or 9 swivel. This of course changes when using braid, but braid isn't much good on a sidecast where you're spreading your line on retrieval with your fingers- OUCH! Rod length- I've had 5 or 6 rods, all fibreglass. all between 9 and 10 feet long. 3 of them were really fast taper and they cast further but didn't slow the fish anywhere as well as the 'Multi-taper' style did. The 'MT' series of blanks with a more 'through' action(bending for around 35-40% of blank length as opposed to 20-25-30% of 'FT' fast taper) This is actually a really important consideration for this style of fishing, as although FT series cast better, MT styles are better for your back as they act more like a shock absorber in a way not dissimilar to the action of a Luderick rod, (but of course not bending through like a Luderick rod which bends to almost 75% of blank) Alvey 600A5(no drag) was my most used sidecast for nearly all general rockfishing except the heavy duty stuff like we're talking about, the advantage was primarily weight and far less bulk of the reel. For the heavy duty stuff, the 650 size has far greater line capacity and wider spool and is more robustly made. The 651E5 was much heavier with reinforced deep spool and drag system not something you could hang onto all day, primarily a live bait reel. I got 2 custom made deep spooled cedar 600's made by ex Alvey spool turner Barry Langley and these have become my favourites with the lighter weight, yet deep spool. It's well worth buying a 2nd hand cedar spool on something like ebay. You commonly see them in "Rosewood" stain and they are superb to use. As for geared Alvey, I had the first model they brought out, but it was geared too high and needed a lot of start-up inertia to get it moving, meaning there was far less direct drive and result was less power. It's the only Alvey I didn't like, but became a collectors item. I got rid of mine years ago. I didn't try the next couple of versions, nor have I ever been a huge fan of the C series drag reels, just a personal thing, I preferred the A5 plain reels. Sorry for the usual long winded answer, but these are my favourite reels to catch fish on! Cheers Waza

[wazatherfisherman]

Just wanted to add that the 600A5's are tough enough for anything, just smaller in size and particularly line capacity, but balance up well with 9-10 foot rods. If Kingfish are the primary target from the rocks, the 650 size is probably the best choice, although I used a 700A5 plain for a couple of years, no complaints with it, just found the E5 series the best of all.

[kingfishbig]

9 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

 

Actually overheads are popular for jewies off the breakwalls on the north coast (handle the very heavy lines better). Also you say lever drags are way better for tuna, but if you are livebaiting off the rocks how do you know a tuna is not going to take the bait? Also the ergonomics, mechanics of an overhead (or a threadline for spinning) are much better. One example is with a lever drag overhead you can leave it in free spool with the ratchet on and a tiny bit of drag unattended in a rod holder, with an Alvey this would be problematic and it is tiresome holding on to a rod all day. In other words I still think it is making it hard for yourself using an Alvey.

PS: I have several Alveys but they just sit in the cupboard these days, I think this is the same for a lot of fishermen. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by kingfishbig

[kingfishbig]

Another thought is that if you want to spin and livebait with the one outfit you could go with a medium size star drag overhead. I got a Newell 338 at the markets the other day for just $35 spooled with 30 lb braid. You could use the braid as backing and run a top shot of 30 lb mono and it would hold enough line to stop a northern bluefin tuna. It will cast heavy poppers and stickbaits quite well. A while back I got an ABU 9000C for $45 which would also fit the bill. On his budget there would be plenty left over for a heavy overhead spin rod.

[PaddyT]

21 minutes ago, kingfishbig said:

Another thought is that if you want to spin and livebait with the one outfit you could go with a medium size star drag overhead. I got a Newell 338 at the markets the other day for just $35 spooled with 30 lb braid. You could use the braid as backing and run a top shot of 30 lb mono and it would hold enough line to stop a northern bluefin tuna. It will cast heavy poppers and stickbaits quite well. A while back I got an ABU 9000C for $45 which would also fit the bill. On his budget there would be plenty left over for a heavy overhead spin rod.

Easier to learn to use an Alvey than a Newell, Waz is right, Alveys are no longer "fashionable " but they are damn good gear, must admit I flogged mine off quite a few years ago when I switched to 99.9% boat fishing,. Also flogged a Seascape 621 Major , 3 sets of gears, a Snyder FT70-120 2 FSU 4120's , Penn Senator 6/0, MT 9120 LBG Stick, couple of Shimano Speedmasters and a whole bunch of LBG crap that i no longer use. Kept a very nice custom made Calstar overhead spin stick that I had built for the north coast and no longer use but cant bring myself to unload . Times have changed thats for sure, as i was winding up my LBG fishing most newbies were fishing braid and "locking up" on everything- including longtails (and loosing heaps of them) which can easily be landed with a bit of clever rodwork in most circumstances.An Alvey or an overhead gave the best control of a fish in close to the rocks because of the ability to freespool or give controlled release of the line when needed and instantly put more pressure on. Locking up on a lot of fish just drags them into the rough stuff faster.

[wazatherfisherman]

17 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

Actually overheads are popular for jewies off the breakwalls on the north coast (handle the very heavy lines better). Also you say lever drags are way better for tuna, but if you are livebaiting off the rocks how do you know a tuna is not going to take the bait? Also the ergonomics, mechanics of an overhead (or a threadline for spinning) are much better. One example is with a lever drag overhead you can leave it in free spool with the ratchet on and a tiny bit of drag unattended in a rod holder, with an Alvey this would be problematic and it is tiresome holding on to a rod all day. In other words I still think it is making it hard for yourself using an Alvey.

PS: I have several Alveys but they just sit in the cupboard these days, I think this is the same for a lot of fishermen. 

As PaddyT said it is far easier to use/ learn to use an Alvey than something like a Newell- Good score at the markets on that and the Abu 9000C bargain price for good old reels and well spotted- As for not knowing re Tuna, the thread originally was about a Kingfish outfit, however with the Kings, the deep, close-in method provided the majority of them(and Jew) Tuna were sought using different technique- shallower for a start. Leaving rod in rod holder was what everyone did and we caught Luderick while waiting for a run unless 'murk' was in or fish 'there', then stayed 'on rod'- too heavy as you say to hang onto all day. Rod holders were about 3 inch gal pipe welded to 1/2 inch solid rod roughly 3 foot long. Not problematic to leave- no overrun with a 'left Alvey' danger danger leaving o/head, one overrun and in it goes. Saw rods snapped at butt couple of times at Avoca- $4-500 outfit gone. To counter that they started making custom hardwood butts with s/steel pin through centre. Not criticising your ideas/opinions just letting you know there were/are plenty of Alvey live baiters who caught tons of good fish. You have Alvey's, why don't you give them another go just for Kings? The excitement of fighting a good sized fish on that gear(especially the no-drag "A" series) is something you won't forget