Flattiefisher

kingfish setups

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15 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Easier to learn to use an Alvey than a Newell, Waz is right, Alveys are no longer "fashionable " but they are damn good gear, must admit I flogged mine off quite a few years ago when I switched to 99.9% boat fishing,. Also flogged a Seascape 621 Major , 3 sets of gears, a Snyder FT70-120 2 FSU 4120's , Penn Senator 6/0, MT 9120 LBG Stick, couple of Shimano Speedmasters and a whole bunch of LBG crap that i no longer use. Kept a very nice custom made Calstar overhead spin stick that I had built for the north coast and no longer use but cant bring myself to unload . Times have changed thats for sure, as i was winding up my LBG fishing most newbies were fishing braid and "locking up" on everything- including longtails (and loosing heaps of them) which can easily be landed with a bit of clever rodwork in most circumstances.An Alvey or an overhead gave the best control of a fish in close to the rocks because of the ability to freespool or give controlled release of the line when needed and instantly put more pressure on. Locking up on a lot of fish just drags them into the rough stuff faster.

Ah PaddyT now I'm travelling down memory lane, I have Snyder FT70-120,FSU 5120 and MT 9120 still, a couple of speedmasters with the updated washers and speedmaster 6-1 o/h. Can't climb the cliffs any more but same, couldn't part with it- too many memories. Hoping that when I move to Murwillumbah in a few months can still use from walls like Fingal, Wooli. Treasure my 651E5 Alvey and MT mega 9 wrap-  easily lifted Kings up to about 25 lb- been offered big dollars for them but could never sell them either

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Just wanted to relate a conversation I had with Bruce Alvey last year when it was announced that Alvey was unfortunately going to have to close down after 97 years in business. I don't know him personally, but he was both very friendly and quite happy to talk of the impending closure, even though it was a traumatic time for both himself and the business. The cost of electricity was a major factor. Also, sadly more and more younger fishers were opting for high-end threadlines instead, many lured by the mass media of things like GT popping, giant Yellowfin on lures from the stones, Drone fishing, slide-baiting and so on. Braid also was part of the 'problem' as spreading line(with fingers) became a safety issue. and many have switched to the advantages of  using these new super-lines.  Also, as the reels were built to last(and do) anyone buying one could still be using it in 50+ years time. They were so well made they've been handed down from father to son  (grandfather to in heaps of cases!) making the initial purchase of an Alvey a 'lifetime' buy. There is virtually nothing that goes wrong with them, even when dropped in the ocean or filled with sand, a quick dunk in the surf, a shake and you're back in business- 5 mins washing and re- lubing and you could leave it in the garage for months and nothing would be corroded. Consider what would happen to any other style of reel under those conditions. Great for fishers, lousy for reel sales. There was a buying "frenzy" on ebay and 2nd hand reel prices rose nearly 100%.  Bruce went on to say that he believed also that many fishers weren't developing the same 'skill-levels' as a result of superlines, super drag systems, etc. The skill of judgement of line strength, the ability to control a fish by means of 'palming' the spool on plain series reels (centerpin reels also fall into the category) and the general 'feel' for your outfit were changing with all the advancements in technology. Not saying that there isn't a different skill-level altogether in learning to use all the new gear, there certainly is. As testament to the legion of Alvey users out there, the company was going to sponsor several Alvey only competitions, where only the "A" series of plain non star drag reels would be permitted. They had hoped to showcase the resulting captures from that type of tournament. Thankfully for we fishers, due to an overwhelming panic driven demand, with ongoing orders, they have managed to stay open at least for the mean time. The ebay 'frenzy' has subsided somewhat. Who'd have thought that by making a product so well, could be bad for business?  Raiders, try a plain Alvey, one will last you forever!- Note- I have absolutely no affiliation with the company, just love the reels!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

As PaddyT said it is far easier to use/ learn to use an Alvey than something like a Newell- Good score at the markets on that and the Abu 9000C bargain price for good old reels and well spotted- As for not knowing re Tuna, the thread originally was about a Kingfish outfit, however with the Kings, the deep, close-in method provided the majority of them(and Jew) Tuna were sought using different technique- shallower for a start. Leaving rod in rod holder was what everyone did and we caught Luderick while waiting for a run unless 'murk' was in or fish 'there', then stayed 'on rod'- too heavy as you say to hang onto all day. Rod holders were about 3 inch gal pipe welded to 1/2 inch solid rod roughly 3 foot long. Not problematic to leave- no overrun with a 'left Alvey' danger danger leaving o/head, one overrun and in it goes. Saw rods snapped at butt couple of times at Avoca- $4-500 outfit gone. To counter that they started making custom hardwood butts with s/steel pin through centre. Not criticising your ideas/opinions just letting you know there were/are plenty of Alvey live baiters who caught tons of good fish. You have Alvey's, why don't you give them another go just for Kings? The excitement of fighting a good sized fish on that gear(especially the no-drag "A" series) is something you won't forget

Well nearly everyone leave their rod in a holder when livebaiting as it can be hours between a run. As I said a tiny bit of drag should prevent over runs and you can use a safety lanyard for extra security (I don't have sand spikes on any of my LBG rods). This puts an alvey at a disadvantage. Also I caught all my kingies with the livebait set shallow (6 ft under the float), so I'm not sure about them being a different method. I wouldn't be put off overheads because an alvey is 'easier to use/learn'. It's a skill worth acquiring rather than being limited to fix spool reels all your fishing life. I even use overheads from beach fishing these days. 

Yes I'm sure a big kingie would be memorable on an A class (especially if I get friction burns, or brake/ bruise a thumb or knuckles)!

 

Edited by kingfishbig
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Got to agree with you Waz, saw a lot of fish lost because guys would get lazy and stick to rod in a holder. Used to be an endless source of practical jokes too- make the rachet scream!

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43 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

Got to agree with you Waz, saw a lot of fish lost because guys would get lazy and stick to rod in a holder. Used to be an endless source of practical jokes too- make the rachet scream!

I have never had a problem with leaving the rod in a holder (do the same when boat fishing). Sure there can be missed hook-ups, but this will happen even if you are holding the rod. You have consider there is the opportunity cost if you insist on holding the rod all the time, eg you can't fish for something else at the same time, or you have to wind in if you go and get a drink or snack etc.

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3 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

Well nearly everyone leave their rod in a holder when livebaiting as it can be hours between a run. As I said a tiny bit of drag should prevent over runs and you can use a safety lanyard for extra security (I don't have sand spikes on any of my LBG rods). This puts an alvey at a disadvantage.

 

Interesting topic. Looks like I missed something. What puts alvey at a disadvantage?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, savit said:

Interesting topic. Looks like I missed something. What puts alvey at a disadvantage?

I have covered them in my previous posts , also considering that the there was a suggestion to use one with a 12' beach rod.

Edited by kingfishbig

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2 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

I have never had a problem with leaving the rod in a holder (do the same when boat fishing). Sure there can be missed hook-ups, but this will happen even if you are holding the rod. You have consider there is the opportunity cost if you insist on holding the rod all the time, eg you can't fish for something else at the same time, or you have to wind in if you go and get a drink or snack etc.

Well in an LBG season of say Jan to April which consists of about 16 weekends which the average joe fishes less than half  due to other commitments , weather etc so lets call it 15 hard fishing days of which 2/3rds will be fishless so on 5 days a year there will be a few longtails or spannies around or down south maybe a marlin. I considered one missed bite from a tuna or spannie a disaster let alone a few in a season- so bloody hell yeah- I held my rod or the line off the tip-all day. The effort i put into getting up the coast, walking out to the platform, catching bait meant there was no way in the world I walked away from my rod, after a big day at Hat or Muttonbird or Iluka I was dehydrated, hungry and stuffed , still am when I fish offshore and i still dont fish reels in freespool unattended.

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48 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

Well in an LBG season of say Jan to April which consists of about 16 weekends which the average joe fishes less than half  due to other commitments , weather etc so lets call it 15 hard fishing days of which 2/3rds will be fishless so on 5 days a year there will be a few longtails or spannies around or down south maybe a marlin. I considered one missed bite from a tuna or spannie a disaster let alone a few in a season- so bloody hell yeah- I held my rod or the line off the tip-all day. The effort i put into getting up the coast, walking out to the platform, catching bait meant there was no way in the world I walked away from my rod, after a big day at Hat or Muttonbird or Iluka I was dehydrated, hungry and stuffed , still am when I fish offshore and i still dont fish reels in freespool unattended.

But you have more chances spinning while you have a live bait out as well, that's what I mean by the opportunity cost. And spinning is a first line method for big fish on the north coast as spaniards and longtails are partial to taking lures and live baiting can be a bit problematic (hard to come by, strong currents).

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I give up, I was talking about livebaiting not spinning, if i spin, i spin, if a livebait , i livebait.They dont mix well.

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7 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Got to agree with you Waz, saw a lot of fish lost because guys would get lazy and stick to rod in a holder. Used to be an endless source of practical jokes too- make the rachet scream!

Have to admit to putting the rod in the holder heaps of times, but as I always stood right next to- and I mean next to it- catching Blackies and we fished the deep method. I've always reckoned a great "fisherman's alarm clock" would have the sound of an Alvey ratchet screaming off- you'd be out'a bed in a split second!

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On 7/19/2018 at 10:18 AM, savit said:

Interesting topic. Looks like I missed something. What puts alvey at a disadvantage?

No disadvantage! Different method of fishing, in all the years only ever saw a few Kingfish taken fishing live bait less than about 10 foot deep and that was at Kiama Blowhole, JB and Avoca. Where we fished in Sydney 20-30 foot deep was the norm. Often when rock fishing you see Kingfish cruise by or pop out from the edge pretty much on the surface, often following a hooked fish or lure, sometimes they take, sometimes not. Fishing deep they took more often, not unlike why boats use downriggers when trolling for Kingfish rather than just towing un-weighted. Since the now common usage of 'riggers' started Kingfish catches have increased substantially for those that have switched to them. Not just a coincidence!

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On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:49 PM, wazatherfisherman said:

No disadvantage! Different method of fishing, in all the years only ever saw a few Kingfish taken fishing live bait less than about 10 foot deep and that was at Kiama Blowhole, JB and Avoca. Where we fished in Sydney 20-30 foot deep was the norm. Often when rock fishing you see Kingfish cruise by or pop out from the edge pretty much on the surface, often following a hooked fish or lure, sometimes they take, sometimes not. Fishing deep they took more often, not unlike why boats use downriggers when trolling for Kingfish rather than just towing un-weighted. Since the now common usage of 'riggers' started Kingfish catches have increased substantially for those that have switched to them. Not just a coincidence!

Like I said all my land based kingies took baits set around 6' deep. I didn't put them very far out from the rocks so they were still close to structure, which kingies like. Conversely tuna will take a live bait set deep as Bob Russo of LBG fame attests:  http://www.fishingheritagejervisbay.net.au/subsbobby3.htm

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On 7/19/2018 at 2:14 PM, PaddyT said:

I give up, I was talking about livebaiting not spinning, if i spin, i spin, if a livebait , i livebait.They dont mix well.

I think you will find Kingfishbig likes to go offtopic ??

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, GoingFishing said:

I think you will find Kingfishbig likes to go offtopic ??

Now that is that 'off topic' ie it's a pot shot without adding  anything of substance. 

Edited by kingfishbig

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49 minutes ago, kingfishbig said:

Now that is that 'off topic' ie it's a pot shot without adding  anything of substance. 

No hard feelings mate im just playing.....love your contributions....its the wide variety of opinions that make this site so resourceful!!

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9 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

Like I said all my land based kingies took baits set around 6' deep. I didn't put them very far out from the rocks so they were still close to structure, which kingies like. Conversely tuna will take a live bait set deep as Bob Russo of LBG fame attests:  http://www.fishingheritagejervisbay.net.au/subsbobby3.htm

I agree Tuna can be caught deep, but only ever hooked 1 that way as opposed to hundreds of kingy's and the thread is/was about Kingfish set up. Anyway, glad you caught some, also that you're only trying to help another Raider and I didn't really suggest an alternative in the price range just had to back PaddyT up as a successful Alvey user! I agree this has gone off track. Happy fishing

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Hi,

Wow, and I thought I knew all about fishing.  Back to the drawing board and thank you all for the information on this Post.

Brillant.

Cheers.

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