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Advice needed for buying a fishing boat


Xi803

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Hi guys.

Just need some advice on buying a boat.

Wanting to upgrade from my 2006 Quintrex 460 Dory tiler steer.

Im looking for either a side or centre console. 

Budget is 20k to 25k for a low hour used boat.

 

I normally fish the hawkesbury river for bream and flatties and do go to the heads at Sydney harbour and Jervis bay to chase Kingies. 

Still very new to boating as i have only owned my Quinnie for 1yr.

Looking to fish a bit further out. Peaks, Fads 12mile etc...

I will still mainly use it for inshore but like to know that it will be capable to fish offshore on calm days.

Thanks.

 

 

 

Edited by Xi803
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There's plenty of boats capable of doing what your looking for... the quintrex renegade in size 460 and up is a good side console and possibly the top enders.

I had a 460 renegade and used to fish comfortably offshore but sold it as its not an offshore rig and i do almost exclusively offshore fishing. That being said it was more than capable of getting out to FADs etc

 

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I have a Stacer Outlaw 449 Side Console with a 60hp ETEC. I picked it up new 4 years ago with a few extras including Minn Kota, bimini (which don’t use), VHF radio, live bait tank etc. within your price range. I probably use it more outside than I do inside! It’s a great boat! I’d go bigger if I could but it’s perfect for me to use solo and too big and I might need a bigger vehicle.

A similar boat in a Quintrex is the Renegade. Good luck in your search!

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I don't think an open pressed tinnie is really suitable for going that far out (especially in winter when the deep reefs fish the best). I'd be looking at a fiberglass or plate alloy boat with a deep V around 5.4 to 5.8 m with a runabout or cuddy cabin design. The  budget given means you will have to look at something a bit older/ higher hours but a least it will be capable for the job.

Edited by kingfishbig
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1 hour ago, kingfishbig said:

I don't think an open pressed tinnie is really suitable for going that far out (especially in winter when the deep reefs fish the best). I'd be looking at a fiberglass or plate alloy boat with a deep V around 5.4 to 5.8 m with a runabout or cuddy cabin design. The that budget you will have to look at something a bit older/ higher hours but a least it will be capable for the job.

My understanding of his requirements were a boat used mostly for inshore fishing with the occasional offshore trip on calm days... 20-25k with low hours.

I dont think a deep V offshore rig in fibreglass or aluminium with high hours fits that description at all.

Edited by GoingFishing
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29 minutes ago, GoingFishing said:

My understanding of his requirements were a boat used mostly for inshore fishing with the occasional offshore trip on calm days... 20-25k with low hours.

I dont think a deep V offshore rig in fibreglass or aluminium with high hours fits that description at all.

Well he has asked for advice and mine is (as I explained) his requirements are a bit unrealistic.

PS: you can no way be sure that the seas will remain calm when you are going that far offshore. 

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30 minutes ago, kingfishbig said:

Well he has asked for advice and mine is (as I explained) his requirements are a bit unrealistic.

PS: you can no way be sure that the seas will remain calm when you are going that far offshore. 

I respectfully disagree. I fished the FADs, peak etc dozens of times from my 460 renegade. Always made it home safely without incident.

When it comes to offshore fishing it all comes down to the experience of the skipper...knowing your boats capabilities, keeping tabs on weather changes, being prepared and having all the right gear.

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I have a 4.8 vsea and fish estuary an outside  not ideal for lake n river but perfect for wot i do at sea  agree that experience is needed but guys have to start somewhere  i was the only boat at broughton is on sat arvo in very ordinary conditions but my little tub was feeling very safe  an open style console will be fine for wot u want to try  baz fishes out of port stephens in his and loves it  its only 449  get something closer to 5.0 and you should be happy...rick

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2 hours ago, rickmarlin62 said:

I have a 4.8 vsea and fish estuary an outside  not ideal for lake n river but perfect for wot i do at sea  agree that experience is needed but guys have to start somewhere  i was the only boat at broughton is on sat arvo in very ordinary conditions but my little tub was feeling very safe  an open style console will be fine for wot u want to try  baz fishes out of port stephens in his and loves it  its only 449  get something closer to 5.0 and you should be happy...rick

Yep, being an open boat it gets a bit cold sometimes and punching back into weather, like into a howling westerly, even coming back up the Bay, I can cop a hiding from the spray that makes me long for a windscreen sometimes... but I’m positive the boat can handle it better than me! You grits your teeth and gets wet! ??? Hard to beat an open boat for fishability! ?

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10 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

I respectfully disagree. I fished the FADs, peak etc dozens of times from my 460 renegade. Always made it home safely without incident.

When it comes to offshore fishing it all comes down to the experience of the skipper...knowing your boats capabilities, keeping tabs on weather changes, being prepared and having all the right gear.

Well I was just pointing out there is the option of going for something older but significantly more capable. At least he will be less limited by the weather, which is seldom ideal off Sydney.

I don't quite follow the logic of because you have gotten way with pushing the limits/ capabilities multiple times makes it a good idea. I was just watching a documentary on the Challenger disaster where an expert described a lot of such sloppy thinking at NASA which contributed to the disaster.

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17 minutes ago, Berleyguts said:

Yep, being an open boat it gets a bit cold sometimes and punching back into weather, like into a howling westerly, even coming back up the Bay, I can cop a hiding from the spray that makes me long for a windscreen sometimes... but I’m positive the boat can handle it better than me! You grits your teeth and gets wet! ??? Hard to beat an open boat for fishability! ?

Imagine coming back from the 12 mile under those conditions! Hence my suggestion.

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40 minutes ago, kingfishbig said:

Imagine coming back from the 12 mile under those conditions! Hence my suggestion.

Yes, I don’t need to go out too far at Port Stephens but I know my boat can handle it if I did - but, yes, you do need to pick your days! I still love a console boat!

Having said that, I do dream of an 18-21ft centre walk around cabin! ?

 

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3 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

Well I was just pointing out there is the option of going for something older but significantly more capable. At least he will be less limited by the weather, which is seldom ideal off Sydney.

I don't quite follow the logic of because you have gotten way with pushing the limits/ capabilities multiple times makes it a good idea. I was just watching a documentary on the Challenger disaster where an expert described a lot of such sloppy thinking at NASA which contributed to the disaster.

I agree offshore rigs provide better protection from the weather and yepp definately an option.... but i wouldnt go so far as to say an open side or centre co sole are unrealistic or unsafe options. 

Also i wouldnt really describe it as "getting away with" or "pushing the limits". In the right conditions and with an experienced skipper operating a vessel inside or outside would be the same. 

I would compare this with the following example. I would like a new but second hand car to use for family and kids but would also like some towing capability for the 2-3 times a year.

The best fit for the above would not be a ute such as a Hilux or F250 with 200,000km on the odo??

From what i have observed, 90% of boating incidents occur due to skipper negligence and ironically occur inshore (collisions, surf conditions along bars and cliffs etc). 

 

Edited by GoingFishing
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16 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

I don't think an open pressed tinnie is really suitable for going that far out (especially in winter when the deep reefs fish the best). I'd be looking at a fiberglass or plate alloy boat with a deep V around 5.4 to 5.8 m with a runabout or cuddy cabin design. The  budget given means you will have to look at something a bit older/ higher hours but a least it will be capable for the job.

I would tend to agree with you there KFB.

I would rather a boat be even more capable than what would be considered the minimum or adequate requirements for going that far out.

I haven't bought my 1st outside rig yet but I really like the plated alloy offerings that are around but budget is always an issue. 

With a bit of searching youll find something for your price.

 

Id be pretty happy with a boat like this & its not a bad price imo, although myself I would like something between 5 & 6 mtrs.

Not an enclosed cabin but still would be ok for that distance out I recon.

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2011-Formosa-480-Classic-Centre-Console/SSE-AD-5436605/?cr=0&gts=SSE-AD-5436605&gtssaleid=SSE-AD-5436605&gtsviewtype=Spotlight&psq=((Service%3D[Boatsales]%26Make%3D[FORMOSA])%26(((SiloType%3D[Dealer used boats]|SiloType%3D[Dealer new boats])|SiloType%3D[Private used boats])|SiloType%3D[Demo and near new boats]))&pso=0&pss=Premium

Edited by kingie chaser
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Pick your days and do it in the boat youve got, at your stage of experience get a lot more time getting to really know the boat youve got and when you move up to a biger more seaworthy one you will be fine- my first boat was a 16ft quinnie and I spent nearly all the time with it outside- plus that size up to about 20ft is very versatile for all sorts of fishing. My current ride is a 5.4M TABS center console which can be a bit wet and uncomfortable but it is very seaworthy and I am regularily on the shelf with it- pick your days and you will be fine- become an avid weather watcher (dont rely on apps on your phone) and you will be fine

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17 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

Pick your days and do it in the boat youve got, at your stage of experience get a lot more time getting to really know the boat youve got and when you move up to a biger more seaworthy one you will be fine- my first boat was a 16ft quinnie and I spent nearly all the time with it outside- plus that size up to about 20ft is very versatile for all sorts of fishing. My current ride is a 5.4M TABS center console which can be a bit wet and uncomfortable but it is very seaworthy and I am regularily on the shelf with it- pick your days and you will be fine- become an avid weather watcher (dont rely on apps on your phone) and you will be fine

And try and get out fishing in as many different boats as you can, so you can figure out what YOU want in a boat. ?

Me? I always wanted a 15ft console tinny from when I was a young fella and I used to read about Malcolm Florence and watch him on TV fishing out of a Dehavilland Viking centre console. That’s all I need in a boat for what I do and with my tow vehicle. If I go too much bigger, I’ll need to spend $40 or $50k on a new vehicle!

You will get 100+ opinions on here. Take them all on board - there are no right or wrong answers (within reason) - and choose what is right for you.

In my case, I wanted a brand new boat and motor package, having had some troubles with a used one before, so I found something that suited in my price range - new gave me piece of mind and I haven’t looked back. ??

Edited by Berleyguts
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"I agree offshore rigs provide better protection from the weather and yepp definately an option.... but i wouldnt go so far as to say an open side or centre co sole are unrealistic or unsafe options". 

No, not if it's big enough, but I was referring to open pressed tinnies around 4.6 m which have limited offshore capability irrespective of whether you get wet or not. Although some wave breaking structure does add to safety.

"Also i wouldnt really describe it as "getting away with" or "pushing the limits". In the right conditions and with an experienced skipper operating a vessel inside or outside would be the same". 

Well if the conditions are right then you can go as far as much fuel you can carry - but it's not really the point. Conditions can turn for the worse. 

"I would compare this with the following example. I would like a new but second hand car to use for family and kids but would also like some towing capability for the 2-3 times a year".

"The best fit for the above would not be a ute such as a Hilux or F250 with 200,000km on the odo??"

Depends what you are towing. If you are towing illegally/ exceeding the capabilities then even once is too often. Also the boat I recommended would be better for in close offshore fishing ie you won't be limited by the weather so much, be more comfortable.

"From what i have observed, 90% of boating incidents occur due to skipper negligence and ironically occur inshore (collisions, surf conditions along bars and cliffs etc)". 

You could add hull/ equipment failures. Also adverse conditions are not unrelated to boat size as has been discussed.

 

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also picking your days when to venture outside is very easy these days with multiple apps to look at wind swell and sea coditions...we went on weekend with 20 plus knots forecast but knowing that I wouldn't be mor than 4 naut mile off the shore goin to the island I had no hesitation going.....I have thousands of hours experience at sea in large small and pro boats.....if you get a 5.0mtr boat set it up properly  have all safety gear and practice safe boating in reasonable weather you will gain experience and widen your horizons....there is no reason to assume its wrong to go to sea in a boat smaller than 5,5 or 6.0 mtr  hundreds of people do it every weekend up n down the coast   go get a boat an enjoy yourself...rick

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The problem with going a long way out in a small boat (eg the 12 mile in a 4.6m pressed tinnie) and putting faith in the weather forecast is the winter westerly winds. They can pick from light to strong/ gale force without warning and without being forecast. You have little lee effect that far out, you can't out run it and you have to head straight back into very steep chop. The light weight, short length, lack of protection and shallow V of that style of boat will make this very hard going.

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17 minutes ago, kingfishbig said:

The problem with going a long way out in a small boat (eg the 12 mile in a 4.6m pressed tinnie) and putting faith in the weather forecast is the winter westerly winds. They can pick from light to strong/ gale force without warning and without being forecast. You have little lee effect that far out, you can't out run it and you have to head straight back into very steep chop. The light weight, short length, lack of protection and shallow V of that style of boat will make this very hard going.

Dont know what country your fishing in mate in all my years of fishing ive never seen weather change from say 5-10knots (the conditions one would go outside in a 4.6m runabout) to gale force winds without forecast. The weatherman does get it wrong occasionally but instead of 5-10 knots it might be 15-knots.....not 35 knots... 

If it ever has happened (forecast wrong by more than 30 knots) it is so rare that you really wouldnt make your purchasing decision based on that risk alone. 

Edited by GoingFishing
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xi is interested in going further afield if weather permits   there is nothing wrong with that if you have all the gear and check all the weather available....how many small boats fish off the nsw coast every day when its good...I go to browns in a 4.8 vsea and the carpark off port stephens   am I crazy......or am I doing everything by the book and being safe.....xi is asking for advice what to buy to be able to do what he has listed  not to be shot down in flames for suggesting a boat that could be multi purpose....a 6.0mtr deep vee glass boat is ideal for outside but not very practical for spinning for bream n flatties.....a 4.8 t0 5.3 mtr could be a very good size as a compromise to do both   I have been on raider for a while now and prefer to offer positive advice to new guys   if they don't know  that's why we as older  supposedly smarter members are here to offer advice...if he said he was getting a 3.5 mtr punt I would advise against  but hes after advise as to what he should get   not what not to get...rick

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Punching back into westerlies can be difficult. Winter means westerlies - I don’t go wide in winter.

I’m just thinking back to the late 70s and early 80s... the ANSA guys would fish offshore in 14ft Clarks, Dehavillands and Quintrex Fishabouts.... when conditions were right. We crossed the Narooma bar... we’d be dragged from the Island to the shelf by huge yellowfin.  The boats these days are a lot better. ?

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9 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

Dont know what country your fishing in mate in all my years of fishing ive never seen weather change from say 5-10knots (the conditions one would go outside in a 4.6m runabout) to gale force winds without forecast. The weatherman does get it wrong occasionally but instead of 5-10 knots it might be 15-knots.....not 35 knots... 

If it ever has happened (forecast wrong by more than 30 knots) it is so rare that you really wouldnt make your purchasing decision based on that risk alone. 

There are things outside your personal experience. I have seen it happen and when I was learning the ropes virtually every experienced offshore/ game fishermen warned me about it.

 

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