Bream Rods with small butts

[BuckWild]

Hi All

Does anyone know of any bream rods (off the rack) that have a small butt? All the modern rods these days have a butt that's too big for my liking (yeah I don't like big butts?)
I'm after a rod in the 6'8 - 7'2 range, 1- 4kg.

To show the size I'm after, the pic below is of a Shimano Rack Raider, MajorCraft BassPara and Daiwa Gen Black (Itchy Twitch). I want something similar to the Shimano Rack Raider.

Cheers

Col

a 
 

[Hill373737]

Col

Here is what I use - Crony Weapons II - might even be a shorter butt than the Rack Raider. Its 7'0", 4-10lb.

PM if interested in more details and I can steer you to a shop that I know has a couple in stock as they are very hard to find.

steve

[BuckWild]

9 minutes ago, Hill373737 said:

Here is what I use - Crony Weapons II - might even be a shorter butt than the Rack Raider. Its 7'0", 4-10lb

That is a very nice butt! ???

I see it's a 1 piece, do they come in 2? How heavy is the rod? I find my rack raider a tad on the heavy side and it does not balance well with a 2000 Certate

[Hill373737]

Yeah, I love the butt!! It took a bit to get used to at first, now my other rods feel wrong. I have 2 and fish one with a 1000 and the other with a 2500  - when I swap between them, I prefer the balance with the 1000.

Its light but they only come as a 1 piece which might rule it out for you if you are keen on a 2 piece.

[BuckWild]

Yeah definitely want a 2 piece mate, but that rod sure does look sexy

 

[savit]

I believe plenty of rod builders/ rod repair businesses can cut the rod butt and rebuild it to the required new shorter length. So, you are not limited to the limited models with shorter butt, however the rod mod  will impact rod resale value.

[BuckWild]

17 hours ago, savit said:

I believe plenty of rod builders/ rod repair businesses can cut the rod butt and rebuild it to the required new shorter length.

I kinda wanna avoid this route, hence I prefer off the rack. Most of my rods are $130 and under, and are a few years old already, assuming a mod would cost ~$50 I just don't think it's worth it

[dirvin21]

Shimano classix.... and shimano ballistix gold.... both have a short  butt section and aren't overly expensive

[DerekD]

Hi BuckWild,

I may be stating the obvious but have you looked at other rods in the Shimano Raider series. There are two which come to mind including the Shimano Raider Bream Finesse 762 (7 foot 6 inches 2 piece) 2-4kg 3-12gram lure weight (Shimano Code RDR762BREAM)? Believe the spec for the rack raider is 2-5kg so there might be a slight weight saving.

It has a short butt and ticks a few of your boxes (including price if you hunt around). It is 6 inches longer than you mention but I've never found that to be an issue. I run mine with a 4lb line and a 1500 Shimano reel.

Another option is the Shimano Raider bream 722 1-4kg (Shimano code RDR722BREAM) which seems to tick ALL the boxes you mentioned above. Look at the full range of Raider rods at the Shimano Website. Dinga will probably have them on special. I can also find them for about $108 if I look around.

https://www.shimanofish.com.au/content/fish/oceania/au/en/homepage/productdetail.P-RAIDER.html

Regards,

Derek

Edited August 13, 2018 by DerekD

[BuckWild]

9 hours ago, DerekD said:

I may be stating the obvious but have you looked at other rods in the Shimano Raider series.

Hey Derek

I already have both the rack raider and bream finesse. Whilst both fit the butt criteria, i find both rods heavier than my other rods and they don't balance well with my 2000 certate or 2500 Stradic

Col

[PaddyT]

Do the mod yourself- hacksaw, new piece of foam, 24hr epoxy (dont use the 5min stuff)- less than $15. Over the years ive modified a heap of factory rods- remove a bit of the tip to make them a bit stiffer, or put a butt extension in or removed a bit of the butt because they didnt quite "balance" for me-give it a go

[DerekD]

Hi again BuckWild.

Might be an interesting challenge for you. For my style of SP fishing, like you, I prefer the shorter butt but unfortunately you have reached a point of compromise. To achieve the balance you are talking about either:

• additional weight is required in a short butt which will result in an overall weight increase
• the butt will have to be extended and a lighter weight used on the end reducing overall rod weight but resulting in the big butt issue.

Sounds like you will have to look at an ultrlight rod. Daiwa did a rod called the Spellbinder which had a short butt and was light but they have been discontinued.

Good luck and I'd be really interested to hear if you find what you are after.

Regards,

Derek

[connico]

Nitro Powerbream Finesse has a tiny butt...

Otherwise get one custom made. Howler Custom rods used to make rods for We flick fishing that were excellent... had tiny butts that you enabled you to customise the weights of the butts so you can match it with a specific reel...

[BuckWild]

2 hours ago, DerekD said:

 

Good luck and I'd be really interested to hear if you find what you are after

Looks like I'm being nudged towards the custom route. Never quite understood why the butts have progressively gotten longer over the years. FFS they're only bream! 

My first rods were a Strudwick Sic Stic Pro and a Squidgy Spin. Both had short butts. If you have a look at the Millerod Bream Busters, even they still have short butts, so don't understand the trend with long butts. 

[DerekD]

3 hours ago, BuckWild said:

Never quite understood why the butts have progressively gotten longer over the years. FFS they're only bream!  

My first rods were a Strudwick Sic Stic Pro and a Squidgy Spin. Both had short butts. If you have a look at the Millerod Bream Busters, even they still have short butts, so don't understand the trend with long butts. 

"Why?" you ask.... See if the following theory makes sense. It comes down to mathematics - or more accurately solid mechanics.

Over the years we have seen improvements in rods from cane, to fibreglass to graphite. They have gotten more responsive and lighter. People want the next evolution. One obvious and marketable option is to make the rod even lighter. How do we do this? There are limitations to how light you can go with the current materials. Go too thin on the blank walls and you lose strength. The guides and fittings won't get too much lighter and still be cost effective. The rod still needs to be balanced but maybe we can play around with the centre of mass. Specifically, play around with the geometry of the counter weight (read butt) of the rod. By putting the counter-weight further away from the reel seat it means we can use a smaller and more accurately a lighter counter-weight. We have just shaved a few more grams off the overall weight of the rod. Have you noticed how traditional butts were solid but now they have a little shaft and then a bigger knob at the end? That is probably why the butts have gotten longer.

I've always found the Bream Finesse to be pretty balanced. With the 1500 Symetre reel on mine the centre of mass is just a little up from the end of the wind in ferrule which locks the reel into place. In the car on the way home I was wondering if your issue relates to how you hold the rod. You are aware of rod balance so you really don't sound like a novice. I like a grip which keeps two fingers below the reel foot and two fingers and thumb above. This puts my hand a lot closer to the centre of mass. What grip do you use?

Have you considered one of the rods where the line runs up the inside of the blank?

Regards,

Derek

PS - in addition to the weight saving it could also be that the marketing team wanted a "go faster and sexier" and thus marketable look. They are probably are less worried about the fact that people like you and me (an engineer) are more concerned about useable function than marketing. I owned a Daiwa Spellbinder which was damaged by a friend. It was ergonomic and had a short butt so I wasn't happy but he was too good a fishing mate to replace. I then picked up a Daiwa Wicked Weasel and while I loved the blank I didn't like the longer butt design so I relegated it to kayak duties where the butt was not a hindrance. I did write to Daiwa asking if they could use the same blank (2-6kg) in a short butt design. They never got back to me.

Edited August 14, 2018 by DerekD

[BuckWild]

39 minutes ago, DerekD said:

I like a grip which keeps two fingers below the reel foot and two fingers and thumb above.

That is exactly how I hold my rods

I grew accustomed to the short butts as that's what I started on when I first got into lure fishing. Although I can fish with the longer butts, it's just not as "comfortable" if you know what I mean? With my Daiwa Gen Black, when I'm working the lures, the butt sometimes either hits my forearm or my fat gut ?? I don't have this problem with the Raiders, but as I said the rod feels heavy and unbalanced, and can get a bit tiring casting over a 4 hr session
 

Getting my tax return soon, the longer this thread continues the more I'm convincing myself to spend it all on  a Bream Buster and an Exist/Stella ????

[DerekD]

Just now, BuckWild said:

 With my Daiwa Gen Black, when I'm working the lures, the butt sometimes either hits my forearm or my fat gut ?

I have the same problem with the butt hitting my forearm. I won't say anything about the fat gut but I could be in total denial. Looking at a photo today of me with a king while wearing a T-shirt that is a touch too short I realised the white belly was not a good look.

[BuckWild]

6 hours ago, connico said:

Nitro Powerbream Finesse has a tiny butt...

Otherwise get one custom made. Howler Custom rods used to make rods for We flick fishing that were excellent... had tiny butts that you enabled you to customise the weights of the butts so you can match it with a specific reel...

Yeah I've seen the Howler's on the WFF youtube vids. They definitely look the goods. They're on my list if I go the custom route

[connico]

1 hour ago, BuckWild said:

Yeah I've seen the Howler's on the WFF youtube vids. They definitely look the goods. They're on my list if I go the custom route

I had one till someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse lol..... I have a nitro Powerbream finesse right now. Its my third favourite rod in the collection :P. Its the go to for bream though!

[wazatherfisherman]

14 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Do the mod yourself- hacksaw, new piece of foam, 24hr epoxy (dont use the 5min stuff)- less than $15. Over the years ive modified a heap of factory rods- remove a bit of the tip to make them a bit stiffer, or put a butt extension in or removed a bit of the butt because they didnt quite "balance" for me-give it a go

Same as me Paddy, I think many guys are worried about cutting the rod, as you say hacksaw (or a dremel) 24hr Araldite and new rod bits- you can even "bling" if you want to with winding checks, aluminium covers and ornate butt caps/butts. They even sell butt pieces that you can add counterweights etc to if you want to. Whole re-modelling take 15 mins and save $$. Good rod builders generally use as you say 24hr Araldite or similar, which can be heated to remove/move metal parts like tips. I just moved a badly aligned gimbal on a game rod for my neighbour, who found the rod in the throwouts for the last street clean-up- $350-400 rod thrown out because both gimbal and AFTCO uni-butt ferrule badly aligned. 2 local tackle shops told him would need a complete rebuild-big $- took 20 mins at home and cost free.