Lock out

[eastwood1980]

What you guys reckon about the whole marine park lock out?

[DerekD]

After reading the 12MB report part 2 the lock out of 25 areas scares me. I don't think it is well thought out or at least it won't necessarily achieve what they think it might. I have been discussing it with a number of people and trying to put together well reasoned arguments against it. There is a FB page called "stop the lockout" which I have joined and the best summary I have seen so far is by a person called Royce (who I believe might also be a Fishraider member). It consisted of nine distinct points (including safety, emotional well-being and financial) to which I believe I can add at least two more.

I have put in a request to post under fishing chat with the administrators and hope to get some further ideas from other Raiders.

[Fab1]

9 minutes ago, eastwood1980 said:

What you guys reckon about the whole marine park lock out?

I think we will whine and moan about it to each other in the typical laid back australian way like any other time any issues come up and do nothing about it allowing them to keep going full steam ahead.

So basically,we are wasting our time unless we band together as a whole.

Thats my opinion.

 

[macman]

There are a lot of people banding together on this already. But, it requires careful reading of the proposal, real thought and then for everybody to make a personal submission, attend the meetings where possible and support people who are fighting for our rights. Most importantly act with a bit of class, hot headed behaviour and raw anger is not going to help anyone.

Be very aware of the facts, there is a lot of misinformation out there.

Matt

[Guest Guest123456789]

They can ban the whole ocean for all I care - I’m fishing sustainably wherever I want in an environmentally friendly way. They can’t lock us all up - no bees no honey.

[ARC H]

59 minutes ago, DerekD said:

After reading the 12MB report part 2 the lock out of 25 areas scares me. I don't think it is well thought out or at least it won't necessarily achieve what they think it might. I have been discussing it with a number of people and trying to put together well reasoned arguments against it. There is a FB page called "stop the lockout" which I have joined and the best summary I have seen so far is by a person called Royce (who I believe might also be a Fishraider member). It consisted of nine distinct points (including safety, emotional well-being and financial) to which I believe I can add at least two more.

I have put in a request to post under fishing chat with the administrators and hope to get some further ideas from other Raiders.

yeah i read that was good

[luderick -angler]

There is a Facebook page Stop the Lockout guys, If your not already signed up do so. Macman is right a clear head and reasoned argument in your submission here's a copy of mine I put in the other day feel free to use it and amend it if need be. Get your kids to put a submission in. The proposal has far and wide ramifications beyond just stopping anglers from fishing an area. Write to MP', local councils and DPI minister Niall Blair. Don't use threats or swear. We don't need to give the Greens the ammunition to say we are a pack ofuncouth bogans that don't respect fisheries.

 

This below ismy submission.

 

I disagree with the Marine Park proposal based on the fact that the majority of sites that are proposed particularly Bondi to Coogee.

 

Factors include

1. This will concentrate a majority of anglers to a smaller area resulting in increased pressure and potential conflict between land based anglers and spear fishers.

2. You will be removing access to some of the safer rock ledges forcing anglers to more exposed rock ledges hence causing an increased risk factor to peoples lives, why do this when your department and the government went to all the expense of the Rock Fishing Safety act?

3. The economic impact to charter operators such as Alex Bellisimo, Justin Duggan, no no no and the impact on local and small businesses, including tackle shops up and don the coast, motels and caravan parks that rely on tourist trade during peak holiday periods as a fishing destination.

4. Potential lost revenue to DPI Fisheries as people refuse to pay recreational fees as the no longer want to fish which may lead to a collapse in funding for native breeding programmes and stockings as an example

5. Fishing is a proven therapy in mental illness and PTSD, one which has helped myself over the years and others. The Bondi to Coogee area is an area I frequent as I do not drive and access is good by public transport. This would take away an important resource for my personal well being and potentially for many others.

6. Fisheries are already well managed with reduced bag limits and increased minimum size limits,  the cessation of commercial trawlers in Sydney Harbour and Botany Bay catchments. The reduction in pollution from ocean outfall sewage, the ending of the kingfish traps. All these factors have led to a healthy fishery.

7. The arrears proposed ar shared by divers and anglers, currently anglers pay a fee to fish, yet dive groups continue to use artificial reefs paid for by anglers without contribution.

8. In 28 years of rock fishing I have not had any conflict with member of the public who is a non angler. What is this supposed conflict between anglers and other users? Are these isolated incidents blown out of proportion by over zealous individuals.

9. I have invested $150 in a Australian standard inflatable PFD specifically to comply with the Rock Fishing Safety Act along with many others who have done the same, what is the point of this purchase when I may not be able to fish my regular ledges.

 

The proposal at best seems over reactionary and biased towards a smaller percentage user group than anglers. Have DPI surveyed the general NSW population as to scuba divers versus anglers, What are the impacts for tourism?

I strongly disagree with this proposal and see no reason to change the status of the current state of affairs 

 

 

[Guest Guest123456789]

You can politely logic and reason all day long with an imbecile but will it get you anywhere?

The only thing that will work is an arse kicking at the next election or by election. Remember the greyhound bans? Then remember the nationals losing the by election in orange to shooters and fishers? Then remember the abolition of the greyhound bans?

[raging]

The proposal is ridiculous IMHO - especially if you consider the risk by rec fishing is low on the list within the paper compared to things such as pollution. It’s also a slippery slope, even if your spots aren’t effected this time around, it may be next time.

im all for sustainable fishing, but not once have I been checked by fisheries. If it’s about sustainability, fix that first. With correct bag & size limits and enforcement our fishing is sustainable.

 

something doesn’t smell right with this - either an attempt for the green vote or colluding with scuba industry.

ive filled out the survey (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/HawkesburyDP) & also contacted my local state MP. I urge you to do the same. This will come down to a numbers game - join the count, don’t leave it for the next guy.

 

While not a talk back radio fan - it’s good to see ray Hadley pick up the fight.

There is a Facebook group ‘stop the lockout’ for those who are interested.

[Nolongeramember]

4 hours ago, eastwood1980 said:

What you guys reckon about the whole marine park lock out?

I said it a few years ago on here. There will eventually be no fishing at all allowed in Sydney and these are the steps in getting to there. Other areas will follow. 

[eastwood1980]

I’ve joined the stop the lockout on fb as well...... this is all part of winning the election next year..... it’s a joke.... 

what about the trawlers that’s taking so much fish and our Sydney market more then 70% of the fish are from overseas.... we can’t even eat out own fis now? I don’t get it

[blaxland]

I have joined the stop the lock out group if only to give them numbers I hope they do a good job but here is what you can do

Have Your Say

Your comments are sought on the 25 sites comprising the park proposal, the management changes proposed at each site, and/or the benefits and costs to your activities, community or industry.

You can have your say by completing the online submission form by 27 September 2018.

The information you provide will inform the final marine park proposal to be considered by the NSW Government later in 2018. Existing management rules remain in place, and none of the proposals will be implemented until the NSW Government announces the outcome.

 

[DerekD]

5 hours ago, luderick -angler said:

There is a Facebook page Stop the Lockout guys, If your not already signed up do so. Macman is right a clear head and reasoned argument in your submission here's a copy of mine I put in the other day feel free to use it and amend it if need be. Get your kids to put a submission in. The proposal has far and wide ramifications beyond just stopping anglers from fishing an area. Write to MP', local councils and DPI minister Niall Blair. Don't use threats or swear. We don't need to give the Greens the ammunition to say we are a pack ofuncouth bogans that don't respect fisheries.

 

This below ismy submission.

 

I disagree with the Marine Park proposal based on the fact that the majority of sites that are proposed particularly Bondi to Coogee.

 

Factors include

1. This will concentrate a majority of anglers to a smaller area resulting in increased pressure and potential conflict between land based anglers and spear fishers.

2. You will be removing access to some of the safer rock ledges forcing anglers to more exposed rock ledges hence causing an increased risk factor to peoples lives, why do this when your department and the government went to all the expense of the Rock Fishing Safety act?

3. The economic impact to charter operators such as Alex Bellisimo, Justin Duggan, no no no and the impact on local and small businesses, including tackle shops up and don the coast, motels and caravan parks that rely on tourist trade during peak holiday periods as a fishing destination.

4. Potential lost revenue to DPI Fisheries as people refuse to pay recreational fees as the no longer want to fish which may lead to a collapse in funding for native breeding programmes and stockings as an example

5. Fishing is a proven therapy in mental illness and PTSD, one which has helped myself over the years and others. The Bondi to Coogee area is an area I frequent as I do not drive and access is good by public transport. This would take away an important resource for my personal well being and potentially for many others.

6. Fisheries are already well managed with reduced bag limits and increased minimum size limits,  the cessation of commercial trawlers in Sydney Harbour and Botany Bay catchments. The reduction in pollution from ocean outfall sewage, the ending of the kingfish traps. All these factors have led to a healthy fishery.

7. The arrears proposed ar shared by divers and anglers, currently anglers pay a fee to fish, yet dive groups continue to use artificial reefs paid for by anglers without contribution.

8. In 28 years of rock fishing I have not had any conflict with member of the public who is a non angler. What is this supposed conflict between anglers and other users? Are these isolated incidents blown out of proportion by over zealous individuals.

9. I have invested $150 in a Australian standard inflatable PFD specifically to comply with the Rock Fishing Safety Act along with many others who have done the same, what is the point of this purchase when I may not be able to fish my regular ledges.

 

The proposal at best seems over reactionary and biased towards a smaller percentage user group than anglers. Have DPI surveyed the general NSW population as to scuba divers versus anglers, What are the impacts for tourism?

I strongly disagree with this proposal and see no reason to change the status of the current state of affairs 

 

 

Hi All,

 

For those that have not read it yet there is a proposal up for discussion which relates to the creation of 25 new Marine Parks along the NSW coast. Several of which are in Sydney (Barrenjoey Head, Narrabeen Head, Long reef, Cabbage Tree Bay, North Harbour, Camp Cove, Chowder Bay, Nielsen Park, Bronte-Coogee, Cape Banks, Towra Point, Boat Harbour). They are looking at three classes of parks - the worst option (where there are conflicting interests) from our perspective will not allow any fishing but will allow passive activities such as kayaking or Scuba diving. On a side note Jacques Cousteau invented the Scuba gear in 1942 with a mate so it has recreationally been around for less than 80 years. In context fishing and boating has been around for tens of thousands of years. I digress – anyway the full proposal can be found on the DPI website at:

 

https://www.marine.nsw.gov.au/key-initiatives/hawkesbury-shelf-marine-assessment

 

Specifically just under phase 3 look for Part 2 which is about 12.4 MB. There are more links on the site but this is a pretty good overview. They list the current situation and then put forward the proposed recommendation.

 

I am interested in the well reasoned arguments against this proposal which can be used as applicable when people contact their local member or fill in the survey which must be completed before September the 27th. If you are feeling particularly creative see if you can come up with some arguments for Marine parks and then more importantly the counter-argument.

 

Luderick-Fisherman submitted 9 excellent points (see post above) when he went through the process. In discussions with others the following have come up.

 

• With the current spread of anglers you get small numbers of fish taken from many areas which the fish population can easily cope with. By locking out so many areas you force more people to fish one area thus not giving the now heavily fished areas a chance of recovery.

• In my case I've owned a fishing kayak since October 2010 and launch from Mosman and range all the way from the Harbour bridge and up to North Head. If heading to North Head I pass by Chowder bay and hug the coastline to give the boats plenty of room in the channel for safety reasons (specifically mine). Not a lot of stowage room on a kayak and so what do I do with the gear if even passing through or stopping for a coffee at Clifton gardens. Most of what I chase in the summer each weekend are the pelagics that might stay in the Chowder bay area for half a day and then move on Sanctuary or no Sanctuary. What it sounds like they are trying to protect wouldn't be impacted by the way most people are fishing the area making the concept of a sanctuary redundant and upsetting a lot of people along the way.

• Due to the dioxins West of the bridge the authorities strongly advise against taking fish for the table (which is a reason why a lot of people go fishing in the first place). If they want to safely put fish on the table they have little chance to do so unless they head over to main harbour or the shore line which will now get even more crowded as access becomes reduced.

• I have been advised that a lot of the DPI knowledge related to fishing comes from recreational anglers – what will happen to this source of information if the DPI don’t step in with some reasonable supporting data? On a related matter what use will fishing licences be if the fees no longer go towards keeping areas open for fishing.

 

What I have also found to be interesting reading is about one of the supporters of the Marine Parks proposal - Felicity Wilson MP Member for North Shore. She started a “Support a Marine park campaign” in May of 2018.

 

On her campaign page she gives a nice little background of what she believes in and requested support for her campaign. While she has a right to have a personal opinion or preference, as a standing Member for North Shore she should at least be taking an open view on major issues. Unfortunately as per the webpage and the attached screen grab the only input you can contribute to that discussion is “YES” I support a Sydney marine park. This comes across as very biased.

 

Here is the link – suggest you make a soft copy for future reference.

 

http://www.felicitywilson.com.au/campaign/support-a-sydney-marine-park/

 

See attached screen grab.

 

Now for some further reading on Felicity putting a spin on information have a look at these nice little articles from the ABC and the SMH.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-05/nsw-liberal-mp-backtracks-on-double-degree-claim/8681758

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mp-felicity-wilson-faces-threat-from-branch-tell-us-where-you-lived-or-lose-support-20170920-gyl27u.html

 

I’m looking forward to some well thought out discussion points.

 

BTW there will be information sessions at a number of locations across Sydney for the next several weekends relating to this proposal. If you can suggest you head down to one of these. Dates and locations can be found at:

https://www.marine.nsw.gov.au/key-initiatives/hawkesbury-shelf-marine-assessment/phase-3-information-sessions?SQ_VARIATION_826802=0

 

I'm looking forward to the one to be held at Clifton Gardens on the morning of Saturday the 22nd of February as Felicity will be one of the key speakers.

 

Regards,

 

Derek

Edited August 22, 2018 by DerekD

[JewCraze]

48 minutes ago, DerekD said:

Hi All,

 

For those that have not read it yet there is a proposal up for discussion which relates to the creation of 25 new Marine Parks along the NSW coast. Several of which are in Sydney (Barrenjoey Head, Narrabeen Head, Long reef, Cabbage Tree Bay, North Harbour, Camp Cove, Chowder Bay, Nielsen Park, Bronte-Coogee, Cape Banks, Towra Point, Boat Harbour). They are looking at three classes of parks - the worst option from our perspective will not allow any fishing but will allow passive activities such as kayaking or Scuba diving. On a side note Jacques Cousteau invented the Scuba gear in 1942 with a mate so it has recreationally been around for less than 80 years. In context fishing and boating has been around for tens of thousands of years. I digress – anyway the full proposal can be found on the DPI website at:

 

https://www.marine.nsw.gov.au/key-initiatives/hawkesbury-shelf-marine-assessment

 

Specifically just under phase 3 look for Part 2 which is about 12.4 MB. There are more links on the site but this is a pretty good overview. They list the current situation and then put forward the proposed recommendation.

 

I am interested in the well reasoned arguments against this proposal which can be used as applicable when people contact their local member or fill in the survey which must be completed before September the 27th. If you are feeling particularly creative see if you can come up with some arguments for Marine parks and then more importantly the counter-argument.

 

Luderick-Fisherman submitted 9 excellent points (see post above) when he went through the process. In discussions with others the following have come up.

 

• With the current spread of anglers you get small numbers of fish taken from many areas which the fish population can easily cope with. By locking out so many areas you force more people to fish one area thus not giving the now heavily fished areas a chance of recovery.

• In my case I've owned a fishing kayak since October 2010 and launch from Mosman and range all the way from the Harbour bridge and up to North Head. If heading to North Head I pass by Chowder bay and hug the coastline to give the boats plenty of room in the channel for safety reasons (specifically mine). Not a lot of stowage room on a kayak and so what do I do with the gear if even passing through or stopping for a coffee at Clifton gardens. Most of what I chase in the summer each weekend are the pelagics that might stay in the Chowder bay area for half a day and then move on Sanctuary or no Sanctuary. What it sounds like they are trying to protect wouldn't be impacted by the way most people are fishing the area making the concept of a sanctuary redundant and upsetting a lot of people along the way.

• Due to the dioxins West of the bridge the authorities strongly advise against taking fish for the table (which is a reason why a lot of people go fishing in the first place). If they want to safely put fish on the table they have little chance to do so unless they head over to main harbour or the shore line which will now get even more crowded as access becomes reduced.

• I have been advised that a lot of the DPI knowledge related to fishing comes from recreational anglers – what will happen to this source of information if the DPI don’t step in with some reasonable supporting data? On a related matter what use will fishing licences be if the fees no longer go towards keeping areas open for fishing.

 

What I have also found to be interesting reading is about one of the supporters of the Marine Parks proposal - Felicity Wilson MP Member for North Shore. She started a “Support a Marine park campaign” in May of 2018.

 

On her campaign page she gives a nice little background of what she believes in and requested support for her campaign. While she has a right to have a personal opinion or preference, as a standing Member for North Shore she should at least be taking an open view on major issues. Unfortunately as per the webpage and the attached screen grab the only input you can contribute to that discussion is “YES” I support a Sydney marine park. This comes across as very biased.

 

Here is the link – suggest you make a soft copy for future reference.

 

http://www.felicitywilson.com.au/campaign/support-a-sydney-marine-park/

 

See attached screen grab.

 

Now for some further reading on Felicity putting a spin on information have a look at these nice little articles from the ABC and the SMH.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-05/nsw-liberal-mp-backtracks-on-double-degree-claim/8681758

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mp-felicity-wilson-faces-threat-from-branch-tell-us-where-you-lived-or-lose-support-20170920-gyl27u.html

 

I’m looking forward to some well thought out discussion points.

 

Regards,

 

Derek

Thanks for the survey link. I've just done my submission too! It's ridiculous they want to drive fishers away by creating this marine park. It's sad what's happening to Australia under the influence of the greens.

[Nolongeramember]

3 hours ago, raging said:

It’s also a slippery slope, even if your spots aren’t effected this time around, it may be next time.

So true! You might not care too much now, but these are the stepping stones to locking out everything.  

[DerekD]

The administrators of the Stop the lockout page on FB have advised the following steps.

The four main objectives of Stop The Lockout! is to bring together all recreational fisherman, recreational spear fisherman, celebrity fisherman and industry heads. Through the page and its members we are united and in one voice we will all work to achieve our objective of No Lockouts or Marine Parks as planned for the Marine Biodiversity in the Hawkesbury Shelf Marine Bioregion. To achieve our objectives members are asked to do the following:

1.Members need to complete the online survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/HawkesburyDP

2. Members will be asked to complete a letter to be put to your local Member of NSW Parliament objecting to these Marine Parks.

3. Members will be invited to attend the Marine Parks Information Sessions in order to lodge their attendance and objection to the parks

4. Continue to invite new members to the page in order to grow our numbers The admins of the page are working hard behind the scenes and will continue to update members with information as it comes to hand as well as further ways in which we can continue to achieve our objectives

Also read the suggestion that people mail Niall Blair the Minister for Primary Industries addressing same concerns.

 

[PaddyT]

Good stuff Derek, this whole thing might actually be the wakeup call that recreational fishing needs in Australia. The byelection in Wagga in 2 weeks will be a close run thing and will help our cause if the SFFP can get up. The whole MP thing is not about protecting our oceans- its about Green preferences in the inner city seats- remember- my spot today, your tommorrow!

[Berleyguts]

I have joined the Stop The Lockout Facebook page but I am already over it! The amount of foul and abusive language, uneducated ramblings and copies of letters sent to ministers without even a spell and grammar check being done etc., do nothing to help the cause. If it gets any worse, I will leave the page.

The cause needs a combined stance of solidarity, headed by an educated and well-spoken spokesperson, presenting documented evidence supporting the cause and finding holes in the proposal.

I now live in a marine park (and love it!) and I reckon there are plenty of places to fish but I can understand the concerns of Sydney anglers.

I have scanned the proposal in the link but as I am travelling at the moment, it is a hard read on my phone. When I get home next week, I’ll log on and have a proper read - I’ll probably print it out - and then make an informed decision before completing the survey or submitting anything to my member of parliament. I don’t normally discuss politics but I do not want to be represented by a Fishers and Shooters party, or anything like that. I am a recreational sportfisherman, that’s all. I generally don’t give my vote to minor parties with narrow-minded goals, with no real plan for, or experience in running a state or country! Having said that, I wish both major parties would just focus on doing the jobs they were put there to do and stop squabbling and in-fighting over their damn leadership!

[PaddyT]

Umm-this has nothing to do with personal beliefs , this is about preventing a politically motivated attempt at a vote grab by an uninformed and ignorant state government. I am a fisho (and a hunter for that matter) and I will protect my recreation from those who wish to take it away from me, however i will not bring other aspects of personal life or religion or sexuality or any other crap into the argument- I suggest we all do the same. Politicians of all colours are interested in one thing- getting reelected- if we can convince them  that this will harm their chances - they will cave in. Keep the conversation civil!

[PaddyT]

1 hour ago, Berleyguts said:

I have joined the Stop The Lockout Facebook page but I am already over it! The amount of foul and abusive language, uneducated ramblings and copies of letters sent to ministers without even a spell and grammar check being done etc., do nothing to help the cause. If it gets any worse, I will leave the page.

The cause needs a combined stance of solidarity, headed by an educated and well-spoken spokesperson, presenting documented evidence supporting the cause and finding holes in the proposal.

I now live in a marine park (and love it!) and I reckon there are plenty of places to fish but I can understand the concerns of Sydney anglers.

I have scanned the proposal in the link but as I am travelling at the moment, it is a hard read on my phone. When I get home next week, I’ll log on and have a proper read - I’ll probably print it out - and then make an informed decision before completing the survey or submitting anything to my member of parliament. I don’t normally discuss politics but I do not want to be represented by a Fishers and Shooters party, or anything like that. I am a recreational sportfisherman, that’s all. I generally don’t give my vote to minor parties with narrow-minded goals, with no real plan for, or experience in running a state or country! Having said that, I wish both major parties would just focus on doing the jobs they were put there to do and stop squabbling and in-fighting over their damn leadership!

Hey Berley guts- Starlo has asked for a more civil tone on the page and I think calmer heads will prevail, I will point out however that Sydney will be the litmus test for those who wish to destroy our chosen recreation- they got the marine parks into the more "isolated" parts of the state first and are now trying the most populous part- if they get it through the restrictions will ramp up-everywhere! Cheers

[fragmeister]

Woah!

It's a hot subject!

I can relate to the rage many feel at the potential loss of privilege.  A part of me wants to rant and rave and accuse and "kitchen sink" all the breaches of my personal freedom over the years and the increased liberties given to those I consider undeserving or dangerous ... but I stop myself because it is not productive and it will do nothing to help the cause.

If we become polarised on the issue and fight amongst ourselves then we have little chance of making a difference. If we draw a connection between the introduction of marine parks and the breakdown of civilization as we know it we will lose credibility. If we don't know the facts and our opposition do then we can offer little to the debate except for emotive opinion. 

I am not convinced for one moment that recreational line fishing is even at odds with Marine parks. Long Reef has been a Marine Park for nearly 40 years and as far as I am aware the proposed changes are to remove commercial fishing and to add site-specific rules for line fishing.  The undefined "site-specific" rules are what concerns me more and I believe this should be part of the basis for comment and objection for that site.

Other sites may have their own specific areas of concern.

I am pretty confident we all want the same thing so lets keep it all civil and productive.

 

Jim

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by fragmeister

[kingfishbig]

24 minutes ago, fragmeister said:

Woah!

It's a hot subject!

I can relate to the rage many feel at the potential loss of privilege.  A part of me wants to rant and rave and accuse and "kitchen sink" all the breaches of my personal freedom over the years and the increased liberties given to those I consider undeserving or dangerous ... but I stop myself because it is not productive and it will do nothing to help the cause.

If we become polarised on the issue and fight amongst ourselves then we have little chance of making a difference. If we draw a connection between the introduction of marine parks and the breakdown of civilization as we know it we will lose credibility. If we don't know the facts and our opposition do then we can offer little to the debate except for emotive opinion. 

I am not convinced for one moment that recreational line fishing is even at odds with Marine parks. Long Reef has been a Marine Park for nearly 40 years and as far as I am aware the proposed changes are to remove commercial fishing and to add site-specific rules for line fishing.  The undefined "site-specific" rules are what concerns me more and I believe this should be part of the basis for comment and objection for that site.

Other sites may have their own specific areas of concern.

I am pretty confident we all want the same thing so lets keep it all civil and productive.

 

Jim

 

Well with the sites I looked at I couldn't find any recreational fishing only areas. There are even some no fishing zones in Botany Bay where there is no commercial fishing allowed as it is a Recreational Fishing Haven. If you look at some of the so called Conservation Zones (which are in addition to the sanctuary zones) at least some of them don't allow any line fishing (eg the large one off the Coogee/ Bronte coastline).

[JewCraze]

If we zoom in on individual issues they're all unrelated, I absolutely agree. And on my submission to the survey I mentioned nothing else other than the marine park issue. I'm not dumb. But here on this forum I thought it's a bit more relax and I can look at the issues from a zoomed out perspective and I see activists destroying everything good.

 

And I might add ... modern day activists look nothing like those who fought to free slaves, those who fought for genuine equality, but they all want to claim to be just like those good activists in the old eras.

As for the FB page I have not joined. I'm sick of FB and no longer a user.

[PaddyT]

47 minutes ago, fragmeister said:

Woah!

It's a hot subject!

I can relate to the rage many feel at the potential loss of privilege.  A part of me wants to rant and rave and accuse and "kitchen sink" all the breaches of my personal freedom over the years and the increased liberties given to those I consider undeserving or dangerous ... but I stop myself because it is not productive and it will do nothing to help the cause.

If we become polarised on the issue and fight amongst ourselves then we have little chance of making a difference. If we draw a connection between the introduction of marine parks and the breakdown of civilization as we know it we will lose credibility. If we don't know the facts and our opposition do then we can offer little to the debate except for emotive opinion. 

I am not convinced for one moment that recreational line fishing is even at odds with Marine parks. Long Reef has been a Marine Park for nearly 40 years and as far as I am aware the proposed changes are to remove commercial fishing and to add site-specific rules for line fishing.  The undefined "site-specific" rules are what concerns me more and I believe this should be part of the basis for comment and objection for that site.

Other sites may have their own specific areas of concern.

I am pretty confident we all want the same thing so lets keep it all civil and productive.

 

Jim

 

Respectfully Jim, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one- part of the problem is this- the lockout zones can be changed with a tick of a pen and I cant imagine that a Labor/Green govt wouldnt do exactly that. I will also add that as usual- we get absolutlely nothing in exchange for a loss in fishable area-no extra artificial reefs, no extra fisheries patrols - zip. This is a one sided "negotiation" , by filling in the survey and joining the FB page you will add weight to at least getting a substantial compromise. I too have nothing against marine parks persay- BUT i dont view rec fishing as a key "threatening process" - we are part of the solution when it comes to improving fish stocks and the general environment. Sure have lock out zones- but move them every 5 years (allowing stocks to locally replenish) and when they are lockouts- lock everyone out - divers/swimmers the lot. I think the idea that this proposal will stop here is wrong- the greens and anti's will want us shut down in as many places as they can.

[DerekD]

Hi Again,

Another point to raise with the parties pushing for the Marine parks - Fishing is a recreational activity which is easily accessable to all socio-economic and multi-cultural groups. I can head out with a $5 handline and a bit of bait just as easily as going fishing with the latest and greatest rod and reel and super-braid. As such it should be a social activity which should be encouraged not choked out as per current proposals.

Berleyguts I empathise and agree with your feelings about some of the excessive and obnoxious comments on FB but can I respectfully request that you stay in the Stop the Lockouts till we at least see some sort of (hopefully positive) resolution. The administrators have been quite clear in their goals and it is one of the few places (including Fishraider) where information can be quickly shared on this one major issue. Unfortunately a vocal minority sounds like it has soured the experience for you but we can also say that about the people driving these Marine Park changes.

Thinking about this over the last few days it has hit home about how important fishing is to me and if I look at most of my closest friends I have met them either first degree or second degree through fishing.

Regards,

Derek

Edited August 23, 2018 by DerekD