Lock out

[Welster]

1 hour ago, kaniSS said:

All this lockout BS has shown me one thing and that's the method Greenies use to get their message across. The days of protesting on the streets with flowers and sandals are gone. They have infiltrated government now, using authority to ban all the activities we enjoy.

We fisho's are too soft, we still have the "She'll be right mentality" we should up in their faces.

There is no doubt about it we have given to ground on to many issues.   

I feel sorry for our kids griwning up with the crap rules society keeps dishing out. 

[kingie chaser]

There's going to be a big story on this on Sundays nights 9 news.

 

Which is good because other than being here & the SSAA association with SFFP you wouldn't even know its been happening.

 

More exposure to the general public needed imo!

[Berleyguts]

The latest RFA newsletter presented some very good arguments in point form. I will use them in my email submission although I already commented in the survey on each the 25 zones.

[Welster]

I didn’t reply to each zone but did s general reply and uploaded a letter.   I intend to talk to my kids about if they wish to reply this weekend.  

[kaniSS]

On 9/7/2018 at 3:43 PM, Welster said:

There is no doubt about it we have given to ground on to many issues.   

I feel sorry for our kids griwning up with the crap rules society keeps dishing out. 

For sure. My son came home upset on Friday from School he is 9. Told me "Is fishing now banned dad"? I said no, he was happy. Apparently his friend told him it wad banned now. Sad stuff. 

[JonD]

We had a marine park pushed on us down here and though there have been a few people telling complete and utter lies about the south coast falling to its knees because of it there's actually been very little change for fishers.

Buisness locally has had a constant increase, even local charter operators here in Narooma have more than doubled during the 11 years of marine parks. Very little has been taken from the rec angler worth fishing, tourists still flock here in record numbers each season. Our boat ramps are filled to capacity even though the fishing has continually declined for some species. I regularly dive both sanctuarys and non sanctuary, the fish count is like chalk and cheese.

This doesn't mean I'm in favour of marine parks, simply trying to put the record straight which idiots have posted in national papers. In fact I'm fully in support of not having this marine park ( or what looks more like a complete lockout for Sydney). 

I believe we have enough truthful reasons against the park lockout without people making the argument worse for us anglers by fabricating false news. Yes it's a fact human populations are continuing to put enormous pressure on the planets resources and well researched planning is needed to look after what's left for generations to enjoy. Our fishing techniques has constantly improved with better boats, electronics right down to the terminal end tackle. 

Better education into fish breeding stock and reduced take of each species is a far better way to manage stock. Also if key areas are getting damaged by anglers anchoring why not implement several permanent anchorings with signage stating no anchoring, it seems to work for the $$$$$$$$ yaughts.

[JonD]

On 9/10/2018 at 8:18 AM, kaniSS said:

For sure. My son came home upset on Friday from School he is 9. Told me "Is fishing now banned dad"? I said no, he was happy. Apparently his friend told him it wad banned now. Sad stuff. 

Simular thing happened with my daughter in regards to the super trawler, what can we do my daughter asked. We attended meetings, signed petitions etc but nothing looked like it was going to change. Then luckily just a few days before the factory ship was set to trawl our coast I happened to stumble across a large school of redfish ( target species of the trawler). Not only did I stumble across the fish but they were within range of the super trawl limits and just about every seabird, dolphins and seals were feeding on them. With a heap of above and underwater footage this was enough to put extreme pressure on government after the footage was used through tv media. This was the nail in the coffin needed to stop the trawler which was banned three days later. 

Carefull aproaches are needed in tackling such issues and a wise selection of representatives are needed to calmly negotiate our side, so many meetings and negioations shut down due to people talking ( shouting over each other ).

Edited September 11, 2018 by JonD

[kingie chaser]

14 minutes ago, JonD said:

We had a marine park pushed on us down here and though there have been a few people telling complete and utter lies about the south coast falling to its knees because of it there's actually been very little change for fishers.

Buisness locally has had a constant increase, even local charter operators here in Narooma have more than doubled during the 11 years of marine parks. Very little has been taken from the rec angler worth fishing, tourists still flock here in record numbers each season. Our boat ramps are filled to capacity even though the fishing has continually declined for some species. I regularly dive both sanctuarys and non sanctuary, the fish count is like chalk and cheese.

 

That's not the message  your local fishing club president David Clarke is portraying!

https://omny.fm/shows/the-ray-hadley-morning-show/marine-lockouts-will-force-fisherman-into-dangerou/embed?style=artwork

[Berleyguts]

15 minutes ago, JonD said:

We had a marine park pushed on us down here and though there have been a few people telling complete and utter lies about the south coast falling to its knees because of it there's actually been very little change for fishers.

Buisness locally has had a constant increase, even local charter operators here in Narooma have more than doubled during the 11 years of marine parks. Very little has been taken from the rec angler worth fishing, tourists still flock here in record numbers each season. Our boat ramps are filled to capacity even though the fishing has continually declined for some species. I regularly dive both sanctuarys and non sanctuary, the fish count is like chalk and cheese.

This doesn't mean I'm in favour of marine parks, simply trying to put the record straight which idiots have posted in national papers. In fact I'm fully in support of not having this marine park ( or what looks more like a complete lockout for Sydney). 

I believe we have enough truthful reasons against the park lockout without people making the argument worse for us anglers by fabricating false news. Yes it's a fact human populations are continuing to put enormous pressure on the planets resources and well researched planning is needed to look after what's left for generations to enjoy. Our fishing techniques has constantly improved with better boats, electronics right down to the terminal end tackle. 

Better education into fish breeding stock and reduced take of each species is a far better way to manage stock. Also if key areas are getting damaged by anglers anchoring why not implement several permanent anchorings with signage stating no anchoring, it seems to work for the $$$$$$$$ yaughts.

Thanks for that feedback, Jon. I imagine it’s a similar story up here in Port Stephens, although some of the guys up in the Seal Rocks/Forster area claim it is far worse for them in that area than it is down here in the Bay. In relation to your diving experience in both sanctuary and non sanctuary zones and “the fish count is like chalk and cheese”, do you reckon there’s scope for changing some of the sanctuary zones after they recover, say a review after 5 years? I ask this because I was talking to a local tackle store employee about the petition and he told me he was about to sign until he read that, in addition to stopping this park, it wanted to reverse all other lockouts in existing marine parks. He fishes from a kayak and he can see the massive variance in fish stocks when he paddles over the Fingal Bay sanctuary zone on the way to his fishing spots. He knows people from Newcastle who “can only catch snapper by fishing illegally in the sanctuary zone” as “they can’t catch them outside the zone”. Now I reckon that comes down to their technique and effort, more than anything! I reckon the fishing here’s OK. Scratchie and Rick do alright on the snapper... and I’m getting there (with perseverance).

[JonD]

1 minute ago, kingie chaser said:

That's not the message  your local fishing club president David Clarke is portraying!

https://omny.fm/shows/the-ray-hadley-morning-show/marine-lockouts-will-force-fisherman-into-dangerou/embed?style=artwork

He is not my fishing club president, he is the person I'm referring to though. Feel free to contact local tourism and ask their opinions on how businesses are doing within the marine parks area. Check his record of complaints within our local newspaper over the years, also see if you can find any records of him fishing himself. For a man who rarely heads out on the ocean he has a very load opinion and certainly doesn't represent the town. 

The scary thing is some people who don't know him may be inclined to believe his dribble and stay away from our town fearing you can't fish here.

We still have the same tackle stores open for buisness, upgraded clubs. four petrol stations, bigger building supplies stores, more restaurants, more doctors surgeries and staff etc etc. Yes just like all towns some shops have gone and new ones opened which is typical of anywhere. 

[PaddyT]

problem as I view it Jon is that once we are locked out of an area- then we are locked out forever, are lockouts a fisheries tool,  or simply a way that government says to the populace "Look at US saving the environment" without actually doing much at all?. When Bob Carr announced a massive bunch of NP's in the 1990's he didnt provide a single cent for proper management of those new Parks. They have become havens for ferals, blackberries and lantana, and access by $WD's, hunters and other who used to use the "crown land". Ive got no problems with Marine Parks or even lockouts if they were actually developed and used scientifically. Why not have a multifaceted system - Closed seasons for certain areas/closed seasons for certain fishes, anchoring bans, reduction in catch limits, even "rest periods" for certain bits of habitat ie temporary shutdowns on parts of reef or seagrass or whatever to allow it to rehabilitate. People are seeing the Sydney Marine Park as a restriction of freedom but if a proper complex (and probably expensive) system was brought into play- then guess what most people would buy into it. Govt wants to do this on the cheap and without getting the major stakeholder (and major potential loser in the whole matter ) onside. Rec fishing can coexist with Marine Parks but as they stand now- I am agin them, hope to see a few Raiders at the rally on the 27th

[kingie chaser]

I just don't get it!

They want you to buy a licence but then tell you where you can fish.

 

I can see people just not bothering in the near future, selling their gear & boats & occasionally going to the seafood market instead, much much cheaper to do that!

 

I mean I understand there needs to be some sort or conservation but not to the degree they are proposing.

You have to defend these decisions to the hilt because once its gone you never get it back!

 

Slightly off topic, I am also a recreational shooter & our rights to shoot are also always under threat by greeny tree huggers who sit in their city well furnished apartments & have no real idea what is happening out in the country except from what they read on some report or maybe TV.

If the same sort of things start to creep into Rec shooting then I will & many others just give it away, but do people in general actually realise the impact that would have on the feral animal population in Australia, NOPE!

 

Basically I just get sick of government bodies dictating how we can live our lives, we think we live in a democracy well that also is being eroded!! 

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by kingie chaser

[JonD]

39 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

problem as I view it Jon is that once we are locked out of an area- then we are locked out forever, are lockouts a fisheries tool,  or simply a way that government says to the populace "Look at US saving the environment" without actually doing much at all?. When Bob Carr announced a massive bunch of NP's in the 1990's he didnt provide a single cent for proper management of those new Parks. They have become havens for ferals, blackberries and lantana, and access by $WD's, hunters and other who used to use the "crown land". Ive got no problems with Marine Parks or even lockouts if they were actually developed and used scientifically. Why not have a multifaceted system - Closed seasons for certain areas/closed seasons for certain fishes, anchoring bans, reduction in catch limits, even "rest periods" for certain bits of habitat ie temporary shutdowns on parts of reef or seagrass or whatever to allow it to rehabilitate. People are seeing the Sydney Marine Park as a restriction of freedom but if a proper complex (and probably expensive) system was brought into play- then guess what most people would buy into it. Govt wants to do this on the cheap and without getting the major stakeholder (and major potential loser in the whole matter ) onside. Rec fishing can coexist with Marine Parks but as they stand now- I am agin them, hope to see a few Raiders at the rally on the 27th

 

Yes totally agree which is why everyone has to stand together and object it. However caution in the manner it's done is also vital. Any investigation into the claims made by a certain person down here makes us look like a bunch of crazies. 

Feedom is a funny old thing, I remember people saying they would never wear seat belts as it was their free choice. This goes across the board in everything, fish size catch limits etc, it was the greed of some that brought these restrictions. I remember everyone up in arms about catch restrictions.

Just to be clear Im against the close out, my daughter fishes, spears, contributes to fishing magazines, marine science, sponsored by tackle stores, spearfishing companies etc etc and has been invited to attend the big meeting in Sydney. She's quite knowledgeable and has managed to be well respected among both green and fishing parties, as a school girl she fights a far better battle than me in a very calm way. 

[dunc333]

i heard today the premier is starting to get wobberly at the knees  as she didnt realize she woke the sleeping giant of fishers and will back down very soon from the marine park proposal.

[kingfishbig]

6 hours ago, JonD said:

We had a marine park pushed on us down here and though there have been a few people telling complete and utter lies about the south coast falling to its knees because of it there's actually been very little change for fishers.

Buisness locally has had a constant increase, even local charter operators here in Narooma have more than doubled during the 11 years of marine parks. Very little has been taken from the rec angler worth fishing, tourists still flock here in record numbers each season. Our boat ramps are filled to capacity even though the fishing has continually declined for some species. I regularly dive both sanctuarys and non sanctuary, the fish count is like chalk and cheese.

This doesn't mean I'm in favour of marine parks, simply trying to put the record straight which idiots have posted in national papers. In fact I'm fully in support of not having this marine park ( or what looks more like a complete lockout for Sydney). 

I believe we have enough truthful reasons against the park lockout without people making the argument worse for us anglers by fabricating false news. Yes it's a fact human populations are continuing to put enormous pressure on the planets resources and well researched planning is needed to look after what's left for generations to enjoy. Our fishing techniques has constantly improved with better boats, electronics right down to the terminal end tackle. 

Better education into fish breeding stock and reduced take of each species is a far better way to manage stock. Also if key areas are getting damaged by anglers anchoring why not implement several permanent anchorings with signage stating no anchoring, it seems to work for the $$$$$$$$ yaughts.

There was an 80% drop in angling participation in the Jervis Bay marine park after it was enacted according to a government survey, so they can discourage angling. 

[kingfishbig]

5 hours ago, PaddyT said:

. People are seeing the Sydney Marine Park as a restriction of freedom but if a proper complex (and probably expensive) system was brought into play- then guess what most people would buy into it. Govt wants to do this on the cheap and without getting the major stakeholder (and major potential loser in the whole matter ) onside. 

Why be so hung up on area management? Plenty can be done with traditional methods for very little cost and disruption to fishermen and businesses that support them. And especially given that apart from a few cases we are not overfished to begin with.

[PaddyT]

16 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

Why be so hung up on area management? Plenty can be done with traditional methods for very little cost and disruption to fishermen and businesses that support them. And especially given that apart from a few cases we are not overfished to begin with.

Sure, fisheries should be the primary management tool, but what would be wrong with a localised , temporary closure if there was reason to do it- eg a habitat recovery. Or after a catastrophic event eg oil spill , extreme weather event. Whilst in general I am against closures based on lines on a map- I could see reasons why they shouldnt be excluded from a proper management plan.But again this would be expensive to manage.

[raging]

Has anyone here given feedback on the Tunks Park lockout?