The role of a man

[Fab1]

Hi guys,

  I wanted to ask something that's really getting on my nerves these days.

  From my experience it seems young people are losing the basic skills of survival past on from father to son these days.

Theres a 22yr old at my work that doesn't know how to change a blade on a stanley knife.

When i asked him to pass me a pair of vise grips he didn't know what they were.,it really sadens me to see this basic knowledge lost.

I know some of you will say to just pay someone to do the work but i dont care if your a white collar worker,labourer or whatever i think being able to use and do basic jobs is a great skill to have.

This is what i think is the minimum a young man should know.

How to use hand tools like hammers,saws,chisels screw drivers,tape measures etc.

Doing jobs like hanging a picture for the mrs,changing a flat tyre,starting a fire,digging a hole,using a broom,i could go on forever.

People have forgotten how to use common sense and their brain these days.Even adults. 

I'd be given my son the biggest kick in the AXXE if they where my off spring it isn't funny.

I don't know everything but i take pride in challenging myself to be a better person and do the research and learn new things.

Anyway it would be intresting to hear others thoughts?

Cheers.

[Fab1]

Sorry,stuffed that up.

[zmk1962]

2 minutes ago, Fab1 said:

Hi guys,

  I wanted to ask something that's really getting on my nerves these days.

  From my experience it seems young people are losing 

Sorry @Fab1 can't hear you......

[Berleyguts]

Sometimes, there’s not always a father around to pass these things on, I’m afraid. Split families can make this type of thing difficult. I’m not particularly handy but I’ll have a go at most things. Some things I know are beyond me and I’ll get someone in if necessary. Other things take time and I will do them - I just wish the missus would stop reminding me every six months! ??

I learnt a bit off my Dad (he wasn’t particularly handy but a good painter and now I’m equally as fussy about painting), more off my grandfather, a little more from neighbours and a bit more as I moved through life from work colleagues etc., also quite a lot from Scouts.

Sometimes, kids are just waiting for someone to take them under their wing and teach them the things they haven’t had the opportunity to learn from their Dad. Just a thought. ?

I’m more interested in seeing a young man who treats women with respect, speaks confidentally and respectfully to all people he encounters, has good manners, says “Excuse me”, “Please” and “”Thank you”, shakes your hand firmly, looks you in the eye, states their name when making and receiving phone calls, leaves a clear voice mail message if you can’t answer and apologises when necessary! Teach them that, by example, and I think the other stuff will follow.

[GoingFishing]

7 minutes ago, Berleyguts said:

Sometimes, there’s not always a father around to pass these things on, I’m afraid. Split families can make this type of thing difficult. I’m not particularly handy but I’ll have a go at most things. Some things I know are beyond me and I’ll get someone in if necessary. Other things take time and I will do them - I just wish the missus would stop reminding me every six months! ??

I learnt a bit off my Dad (he wasn’t particularly handy but a good painter and now I’m equally as fussy about painting), more off my grandfather, a little more from neighbours and a bit more as I moved through life from work colleagues etc., also quite a lot from Scouts.

Sometimes, kids are just waiting for someone to take them under their wing and teach them the things they haven’t had the opportunity to learn from their Dad. Just a thought. ?

I’m more interested in seeing a young man who treats women with respect, speaks confidentally and respectfully to all people he encounters, has good manners, says “Excuse me”, “Please” and “”Thank you”, shakes your hand firmly, looks you in the eye, states their name when making and receiving phone calls, leaves a clear voice mail message if you can’t answer and apologises when necessary! Teach them that, by example, and I think the other stuff will follow.

I think youve summarised it all very well mate.

It all starts at home...........

[wazatherfisherman]

18 minutes ago, Berleyguts said:

Sometimes, there’s not always a father around to pass these things on, I’m afraid. Split families can make this type of thing difficult. I’m not particularly handy but I’ll have a go at most things. Some things I know are beyond me and I’ll get someone in if necessary. Other things take time and I will do them - I just wish the missus would stop reminding me every six months! ??

I learnt a bit off my Dad (he wasn’t particularly handy but a good painter and now I’m equally as fussy about painting), more off my grandfather, a little more from neighbours and a bit more as I moved through life from work colleagues etc., also quite a lot from Scouts.

Sometimes, kids are just waiting for someone to take them under their wing and teach them the things they haven’t had the opportunity to learn from their Dad. Just a thought. ?

I’m more interested in seeing a young man who treats women with respect, speaks confidentally and respectfully to all people he encounters, has good manners, says “Excuse me”, “Please” and “”Thank you”, shakes your hand firmly, looks you in the eye, states their name when making and receiving phone calls, leaves a clear voice mail message if you can’t answer and apologises when necessary! Teach them that, by example, and I think the other stuff will follow.

Very well put. I was also a scout and learned heaps of great life skills there, especially respect- for others, environment, self, etc. Was an army cadet until Whitlam disbanded cadet units and although learned many handy life skills I wouldn't list respect(other than by mandatory rank) as something I learned from the Army. 

I just don't understand why many young people aren't very interested in hiking, climbing, camping, fishing, outdoor stuff- I only had one parent (Mum-dad took off when I was 6) and I couldn't get enough of outdoor adventures, regardless that I had minimum instruction. 

As a former childcare worker I watched the "electronic entertainment age" slowly engulf kids leisure time. Funnily enough, when the "Pokemon" craze first hit, it actually got kids playing "normally" again, albeit taking on the roles of the Pokemon characters. They were using their imaginations and making their own games to the Pokemon theme, at the very least it got them away from their gameboy's, nintendo's and playstations. 

Now, the world has gone silly watching other people do things they could be doing themselves. There's even a show that people watch viewing other people watching T.V (Gogglebox)- and it's popular?

Google has become the great overseer with an answer to any question asked of it, regardless of it being right or wrong. When the Y2K "scare" surfaced and theories abounded that computers might fail and the world would be in chaos, I wondered what would happen to all the people that were so conditioned to others doing even basic things for them. If google(or similar) became unavailable to answer questions, what would the askers do?

I guess, as necessity is the 'mother of invention' people would manage, however teaching a "life-skills" type course at school would be a step in the right direction, only my opinion, but it seems man is going in the wrong direction in many aspects

[dirvin21]

The strong male role model seems to be an endangered species

[wazatherfisherman]

31 minutes ago, dirvin21 said:

The strong male role model seems to be an endangered species

Doesn't even need to be strong, "having a go" was/is totally acceptable. I still bugger plenty of things up, but if you don't try or have "fear of failure" you never learn. 

I wouldn't feel "comfortable" if I didn't know which end of the hammer to hold, even if I didn't swing it very well. You can't "google" a nail in

[Berleyguts]

2 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

I just don't understand why many young people aren't very interested in hiking, climbing, camping, fishing, outdoor stuff

Helicopter parenting and the, possibly, founded fear of the creeps that are out there in this world today, unfortunately.

When I was a kid, we played in/on the street and in the bush down the road. The PlayStation was a tree by the creek. At age 8, I had my first pocket knife and used to camp out overnight in that bush down the end of the road. Before BMX/mountain biking was a sport, I used to ride my sister’s little 20” bike (I had a 24” road bike - too short for a 26/27 ?) along logs, off rock jumps and flat out down the hill to a dead end, grab a willow branch as I took air and swung out into the creek. We’d catch frogs and lizards and snakes, trap rabbits or try and shoot them with an air rifle - as long as we were careful near the golf course, the manager didn’t mind. We’d ride through the stormwater  drains underground for miles, without incident because we paid attention to what the weather was doing. We’d get a few grazes, bruises and sprains and occasionally, a kid would break an arm or a leg but nobody sued anybody because we were just kids being kids. Nobody got into any serious trouble because if you did something really stupid, someone would tell your parents about it. In fact, a neighbourhood mum would probably clip you over the ear and your parents would thank them. There was community in those days. ?

It’s just not like that anymore. ?

I drank from the hose and survived! ?

[Guest Guest123456789]

Look at cigarettes, cars any sort of new technology or product when first introduced. No controls or safety until after people are harmed. Computer games and social media are no different, the local schools now and health professionals are doing a great job of better educating parents about ‘screens’ and why their use needs to be limited. The state government are looking to ban phones and tablets for primary school kids and that law can’t come quick enough in my view. At our house we don’t let’s kids access screens until 4:30pm and then once dinner is on the table they’re switched off.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Guest123456789
Typo

[big Neil]

Hi guys! Interesting topic and an accurate representation of modern society. But hey it's not just the males of the species. How many young folks of either gender can do the "handy" things that their parents learned from an early age? Ok, there are the "handy" jobs that have been mentioned, but what about cooking a reasonable meal, budgeting, knowing how to get by without particular things? These are the basics of SURVIVAL. I see these valuable life skills dying, even here in the country...the fundamentals of everyday existence. Younger folk dining out rather than having a go at making something nice for themselves and their friends. Bedrooms that look like the trading floor at Harvey Norman. I could go on, but don't need to. Modern society has changed in Australia. For the better??? Most older people would say not. The reality is that younger people may not be able to do the things that their parents could, but there will always be people who can. Tradies and chefs are there to "bridge the gap"...that's a plus for their prosperity. Every generation critically evaluates the next and compares with themselves. The speed of change is the thing that I have noticed more in my 3 generational lifetime. I cannot imagine what the world will be like in another 3 generations. Nor do I need to. Life will still go on and people will critically analyse others. What I would hope for is that people become LESS self-interested and consider the "big picture" more. Technology is (potentially) a bigger threat to humanity than not knowing how to change a tyre. It has already started to strip bare the communication capabilities of the human race. Once we lose the ability to look each other in the eye, to speak and to listen, to feel each other's needs, we are doomed as a species. Here endeth the first lesson in the "book of life according to Big Neil". Cheers.

[Rah]

10 hours ago, Fab1 said:

 

This is what i think is the minimum a young man should know.

How to use hand tools like hammers,saws,chisels screw drivers,tape measures etc.

Doing jobs like hanging a picture for the mrs,changing a flat tyre,starting a fire,digging a hole,using a broom,i could go on forever.

Not just young men should know these things, young women should too. And I know my 2 girls will. 

My dad has 2 left hands and 10 thumbs, but I have learnt all these skills and more from my mum. 

When I got my licence, the first thing mum did was make sure I knew how to change the tyre and check fluid/oil levels. 

 

 

[Fab1]

10 hours ago, Berleyguts said:

Sometimes, there’s not always a father around to pass these things on, I’m afraid. Split families can make this type of thing difficult. I’m not particularly handy but I’ll have a go at most things. Some things I know are beyond me and I’ll get someone in if necessary. Other things take time and I will do them - I just wish the missus would stop reminding me every six months! ??

I learnt a bit off my Dad (he wasn’t particularly handy but a good painter and now I’m equally as fussy about painting), more off my grandfather, a little more from neighbours and a bit more as I moved through life from work colleagues etc., also quite a lot from Scouts.

Sometimes, kids are just waiting for someone to take them under their wing and teach them the things they haven’t had the opportunity to learn from their Dad. Just a thought. ?

I’m more interested in seeing a young man who treats women with respect, speaks confidentally and respectfully to all people he encounters, has good manners, says “Excuse me”, “Please” and “”Thank you”, shakes your hand firmly, looks you in the eye, states their name when making and receiving phone calls, leaves a clear voice mail message if you can’t answer and apologises when necessary! Teach them that, by example, and I think the other stuff will follow.

Excellent responce mate.

9 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Very well put. I was also a scout and learned heaps of great life skills there, especially respect- for others, environment, self, etc. Was an army cadet until Whitlam disbanded cadet units and although learned many handy life skills I wouldn't list respect(other than by mandatory rank) as something I learned from the Army. 

I just don't understand why many young people aren't very interested in hiking, climbing, camping, fishing, outdoor stuff- I only had one parent (Mum-dad took off when I was 6) and I couldn't get enough of outdoor adventures, regardless that I had minimum instruction. 

As a former childcare worker I watched the "electronic entertainment age" slowly engulf kids leisure time. Funnily enough, when the "Pokemon" craze first hit, it actually got kids playing "normally" again, albeit taking on the roles of the Pokemon characters. They were using their imaginations and making their own games to the Pokemon theme, at the very least it got them away from their gameboy's, nintendo's and playstations. 

Now, the world has gone silly watching other people do things they could be doing themselves. There's even a show that people watch viewing other people watching T.V (Gogglebox)- and it's popular?

Google has become the great overseer with an answer to any question asked of it, regardless of it being right or wrong. When the Y2K "scare" surfaced and theories abounded that computers might fail and the world would be in chaos, I wondered what would happen to all the people that were so conditioned to others doing even basic things for them. If google(or similar) became unavailable to answer questions, what would the askers do?

I guess, as necessity is the 'mother of invention' people would manage, however teaching a "life-skills" type course at school would be a step in the right direction, only my opinion, but it seems man is going in the wrong direction in many aspects

Kids are very lazy these days i see and your lucky to get them to go out to the letterbox or the otto let alone go hiking,bushwalking etc.

 Even adults i find lazier and lazier.

Again just the other day i asked work mates to walk with me from artarmon to St leonards station as we have a courtesy bus that doesn't run on weekends and they said they're too tired(Lazy in my opinion)to walk and will wait 18min for the bus.I left and walked the 25min in the pooring rain to the station alone.

8 hours ago, dirvin21 said:

The strong male role model seems to be an endangered species

Seems that way.

8 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Doesn't even need to be strong, "having a go" was/is totally acceptable. I still bugger plenty of things up, but if you don't try or have "fear of failure" you never learn. 

I wouldn't feel "comfortable" if I didn't know which end of the hammer to hold, even if I didn't swing it very well. You can't "google" a nail in

Exactly mate,one thing i know is you learn to swing a hammer and aim pretty quickly on a cold winters morning with frozen fingers after striking your thumb a few times.

Same with things like working under the car,you learn pretty quick to push with an open palm on a spanner or pull compared to pushing with your hand clasped in a fist as slipping off the nut and smashing your knuckles is invigorating too.Ouch!!

  Theres something about that kind of pain thats almost as nice as stubbing your toe on the corner of the skirting board when racing about the house.

6 hours ago, Berleyguts said:

Helicopter parenting and the, possibly, founded fear of the creeps that are out there in this world today, unfortunately.

When I was a kid, we played in/on the street and in the bush down the road. The PlayStation was a tree by the creek. At age 8, I had my first pocket knife and used to camp out overnight in that bush down the end of the road. Before BMX/mountain biking was a sport, I used to ride my sister’s little 20” bike (I had a 24” road bike - too short for a 26/27 ?) along logs, off rock jumps and flat out down the hill to a dead end, grab a willow branch as I took air and swung out into the creek. We’d catch frogs and lizards and snakes, trap rabbits or try and shoot them with an air rifle - as long as we were careful near the golf course, the manager didn’t mind. We’d ride through the stormwater  drains underground for miles, without incident because we paid attention to what the weather was doing. We’d get a few grazes, bruises and sprains and occasionally, a kid would break an arm or a leg but nobody sued anybody because we were just kids being kids. Nobody got into any serious trouble because if you did something really stupid, someone would tell your parents about it. In fact, a neighbourhood mum would probably clip you over the ear and your parents would thank them. There was community in those days. ?

It’s just not like that anymore. ?

I drank from the hose and survived! ?

Those where the best days of your life.I did the same plus some.I always think how im still alive with some of the risks we took.

   I'll fill you in on a secret,i still drink from the hose and haven't died yet.?

1 hour ago, flatheadluke said:

Look at cigarettes, cars any sort of new technology or product when first introduced. No controls or safety until after people are harmed. Computer games and social media are no different, the local schools now and health professionals are doing a great job of better educating parents about ‘screens’ and why their use needs to be limited. The state government are looking to ban phones and tablets for primary school kids and that law can’t come quick enough in my view. At our house we don’t let’s kids access screens until 4:30pm and then once dinner is on the table they’re switched off.

Good on you for caring about your kids mate.

1 hour ago, big Neil said:

Hi guys! Interesting topic and an accurate representation of modern society. But hey it's not just the males of the species. How many young folks of either gender can do the "handy" things that their parents learned from an early age? Ok, there are the "handy" jobs that have been mentioned, but what about cooking a reasonable meal, budgeting, knowing how to get by without particular things? These are the basics of SURVIVAL. I see these valuable life skills dying, even here in the country...the fundamentals of everyday existence. Younger folk dining out rather than having a go at making something nice for themselves and their friends. Bedrooms that look like the trading floor at Harvey Norman. I could go on, but don't need to. Modern society has changed in Australia. For the better??? Most older people would say not. The reality is that younger people may not be able to do the things that their parents could, but there will always be people who can. Tradies and chefs are there to "bridge the gap"...that's a plus for their prosperity. Every generation critically evaluates the next and compares with themselves. The speed of change is the thing that I have noticed more in my 3 generational lifetime. I cannot imagine what the world will be like in another 3 generations. Nor do I need to. Life will still go on and people will critically analyse others. What I would hope for is that people become LESS self-interested and consider the "big picture" more. Technology is (potentially) a bigger threat to humanity than not knowing how to change a tyre. It has already started to strip bare the communication capabilities of the human race. Once we lose the ability to look each other in the eye, to speak and to listen, to feel each other's needs, we are doomed as a species. Here endeth the first lesson in the "book of life according to Big Neil". Cheers.

Great write up mate.These days we cant even talk to the person sitting beside us at the train station as their face is glued to their phone.

  I don't even talk to anyone at work because everytime i do it seems that facebook is more important than me too.It amazes me how 2 work mates can sit side by side for an hour having their break and not say one word to each other.

I certainly not going to miss this world when im gone as i find it a sad world indeed.

53 minutes ago, Rah said:

Not just young men should know these things, young women should too. And I know my 2 girls will. 

My dad has 2 left hands and 10 thumbs, but I have learnt all these skills and more from my mum. 

When I got my licence, the first thing mum did was make sure I knew how to change the tyre and check fluid/oil levels. 

 

 

Exactly rah,and guys should know things that are passed on from women such as cooking,ironing,washing etc.

  I taught my step-daughter (abandoned by her dead beat dad at the age of one)the same things,how to mow,put up fencing,roofing,concreting,welding,tiling,change the clutch in her car,change tap washers and a million other jobs like that.

  She works like a trooper too and just recently we fenced 30 acres for our horses and outlasted the nephews.lol.

She also has tiled her whole house and has now passed her tiling skills to her husband.?

[big Neil]

1 hour ago, Fab1 said:

Excellent responce mate.

Kids are very lazy these days i see and your lucky to get them to go out to the letterbox or the otto let alone go hiking,bushwalking etc.

 Even adults i find lazier and lazier.

Again just the other day i asked work mates to walk with me from artarmon to St leonards station as we have a courtesy bus that doesn't run on weekends and they said they're too tired(Lazy in my opinion)to walk and will wait 18min for the bus.I left and walked the 25min in the pooring rain to the station alone.

Seems that way.

Exactly mate,one thing i know is you learn to swing a hammer and aim pretty quickly on a cold winters morning with frozen fingers after striking your thumb a few times.

Same with things like working under the car,you learn pretty quick to push with an open palm on a spanner or pull compared to pushing with your hand clasped in a fist as slipping off the nut and smashing your knuckles is invigorating too.Ouch!!

  Theres something about that kind of pain thats almost as nice as stubbing your toe on the corner of the skirting board when racing about the house.

Those where the best days of your life.I did the same plus some.I always think how im still alive with some of the risks we took.

   I'll fill you in on a secret,i still drink from the hose and haven't died yet.?

Good on you for caring about your kids mate.

Great write up mate.These days we cant even talk to the person sitting beside us at the train station as their face is glued to their phone.

  I don't even talk to anyone at work because everytime i do it seems that facebook is more important than me too.It amazes me how 2 work mates can sit side by side for an hour having their break and not say one word to each other.

I certainly not going to miss this world when im gone as i find it a sad world indeed.

Exactly rah,and guys should know things that are passed on from women such as cooking,ironing,washing etc.

  I taught my step-daughter (abandoned by her dead beat dad at the age of one)the same things,how to mow,put up fencing,roofing,concreting,welding,tiling,change the clutch in her car,change tap washers and a million other jobs like that.

  She works like a trooper too and just recently we fenced 30 acres for our horses and outlasted the nephews.lol.

She also has tiled her whole house and has now passed her tiling skills to her husband.?

That's fantastic Fabian and I'm sure that she will never forget you and all the help which you have provided. Top job you, top job her. Anyway chin up mate. I have a saying which I use a lot... "You can take the horse to the trough, but you can't make it drink". bn

[zmk1962]

Awesome topic and responses guys and gals !  I tried so long not to respond as I knew I'd ramble, but here it goes....

I honestly believe a lot of humanity's problems are the result of living in an "instant" packaged society  and losing connection with nature. Very rarely do you see kids today amusing themselves through their own creativeness and inventions - making do with what they have. It's all too easy to switch on the tele, netflix, or other steaming channel while browsing FB or other social media - and fall into a cycle of  amuse me now or I will flick to something else.... too much focus on instant gratification and self importance vs how to make yourself important and useful to others...

Anyway, I grew up in a very modest household but my dad (a sparkie) and mum were the salt of the earth - they gave us the best they could. Wasn't much left to spend on fancy holidays - but during school holidays I had the BEST toys - my dads tool's and his workshop - just go for it!!! ... drill and grind at your own risk....  sling shots, bows, fishing rods, billy carts... and eventually more advanced things like spear guns were all carefully constructed, tested and used.  I could have anything I wanted - as long as I could make it!!! hahaha.   Lots of trial and error, cuts, burns etc. but it spurned my passion to think it through and give it a go.  Are any of us open minded enough to let an 8yo kid loose on power tools??? My dad grew up on a farm and lived through the war - he saw nothing wrong with it - just be careful - sure dad!

Personally I was always drawn to the outdoors, camping, fishing, trapping and had a passion for learning how frontier/pioneer folk lived of the land.  I came across this book when I was about 9 and it changed my life - (finally found an eCopy about 3 years ago and now have the PDF downloaded for posterity)

https://diyhomeschooler.com/2011/06/13/american-boys-handybook-free-ebook/

Contrast the experiences gained from those pages vs those gained on an iPAD game !  Which prepares you better for life?

When our daughters came along my wife and I were keen to give them both practical and intellectual stimulus - I recall their favourite toys were buckets and buckets of LEGGOs - we could not by enough ... Hours of time being creative and inventive -  some of their creations were massive and decorated our lounge for weeks at a time as they kept coming back to rebuild or extend or remodel as a new idea came up. Still have those stored somewhere in the attic waiting for the next gen. There was a lot of common sense and practicality that was learnt from those little plastic pieces. They caught up on computers and other tech stuff pretty quick, but they were grounded.

Anyway, to bring this back to topic... I still feel that the root cause is that our society is becoming programmed and based around instant gratification. The entertainment industry KNOWs this and has made it BIG BUSINESS.  No better example than music and at the risk of sounding really really old ... I'd like to share the following with you...bear in mind I make that statement being a classically trained guitarist that has since ventured into blues, country, rock, pop etc etc etc so I am hardly a troglodyte.....

But have you ever though that music is getting simpler, more programmed, more and more similar .... listen on!

 

ITS MANUFACTURED AND OUR KIDS A PROGRAMMED! 

How do we break the cycle??

Cheers

Zoran

 

[wazatherfisherman]

3 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Awesome topic and responses guys and gals !  I tried so long not to respond as I knew I'd ramble, but here it goes....

I honestly believe a lot of humanity's problems are the result of living in an "instant" packaged society  and losing connection with nature. Very rarely do you see kids today amusing themselves through their own creativeness and inventions - making do with what they have. It's all too easy to switch on the tele, netflix, or other steaming channel while browsing FB or other social media - and fall into a cycle of  amuse me now or I will flick to something else.... too much focus on instant gratification and self importance vs how to make yourself important and useful to others...

Anyway, I grew up in a very modest household but my dad (a sparkie) and mum were the salt of the earth - they gave us the best they could. Wasn't much left to spend on fancy holidays - but during school holidays I had the BEST toys - my dads tool's and his workshop - just go for it!!! ... drill and grind at your own risk....  sling shots, bows, fishing rods, billy carts... and eventually more advanced things like spear guns were all carefully constructed, tested and used.  I could have anything I wanted - as long as I could make it!!! hahaha.   Lots of trial and error, cuts, burns etc. but it spurned my passion to think it through and give it a go.  Are any of us open minded enough to let an 8yo kid loose on power tools??? My dad grew up on a farm and lived through the war - he saw nothing wrong with it - just be careful - sure dad!

Personally I was always drawn to the outdoors, camping, fishing, trapping and had a passion for learning how frontier/pioneer folk lived of the land.  I came across this book when I was about 9 and it changed my life - (finally found an eCopy about 3 years ago and now have the PDF downloaded for posterity)

https://diyhomeschooler.com/2011/06/13/american-boys-handybook-free-ebook/

Contrast the experiences gained from those pages vs those gained on an iPAD game !  Which prepares you better for life?

When our daughters came along my wife and I were keen to give them both practical and intellectual stimulus - I recall their favourite toys were buckets and buckets of LEGGOs - we could not by enough ... Hours of time being creative and inventive -  some of their creations were massive and decorated our lounge for weeks at a time as they kept coming back to rebuild or extend or remodel as a new idea came up. Still have those stored somewhere in the attic waiting for the next gen. There was a lot of common sense and practicality that was learnt from those little plastic pieces. They caught up on computers and other tech stuff pretty quick, but they were grounded.

Anyway, to bring this back to topic... I still feel that the root cause is that our society is becoming programmed and based around instant gratification. The entertainment industry KNOWs this and has made it BIG BUSINESS.  No better example than music and at the risk of sounding really really old ... I'd like to share the following with you...bear in mind I make that statement being a classically trained guitarist that has since ventured into blues, country, rock, pop etc etc etc so I am hardly a troglodyte.....

But have you ever though that music is getting simpler, more programmed, more and more similar .... listen on!

 

ITS MANUFACTURED AND OUR KIDS A PROGRAMMED! 

How do we break the cycle??

Cheers

Zoran

 

Hi Zoran that was both fascinating and tragic! Thanks for putting it on I really enjoyed it. Cheers Waza

[big Neil]

7 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Awesome topic and responses guys and gals !  I tried so long not to respond as I knew I'd ramble, but here it goes....

I honestly believe a lot of humanity's problems are the result of living in an "instant" packaged society  and losing connection with nature. Very rarely do you see kids today amusing themselves through their own creativeness and inventions - making do with what they have. It's all too easy to switch on the tele, netflix, or other steaming channel while browsing FB or other social media - and fall into a cycle of  amuse me now or I will flick to something else.... too much focus on instant gratification and self importance vs how to make yourself important and useful to others...

Anyway, I grew up in a very modest household but my dad (a sparkie) and mum were the salt of the earth - they gave us the best they could. Wasn't much left to spend on fancy holidays - but during school holidays I had the BEST toys - my dads tool's and his workshop - just go for it!!! ... drill and grind at your own risk....  sling shots, bows, fishing rods, billy carts... and eventually more advanced things like spear guns were all carefully constructed, tested and used.  I could have anything I wanted - as long as I could make it!!! hahaha.   Lots of trial and error, cuts, burns etc. but it spurned my passion to think it through and give it a go.  Are any of us open minded enough to let an 8yo kid loose on power tools??? My dad grew up on a farm and lived through the war - he saw nothing wrong with it - just be careful - sure dad!

Personally I was always drawn to the outdoors, camping, fishing, trapping and had a passion for learning how frontier/pioneer folk lived of the land.  I came across this book when I was about 9 and it changed my life - (finally found an eCopy about 3 years ago and now have the PDF downloaded for posterity)

https://diyhomeschooler.com/2011/06/13/american-boys-handybook-free-ebook/

Contrast the experiences gained from those pages vs those gained on an iPAD game !  Which prepares you better for life?

When our daughters came along my wife and I were keen to give them both practical and intellectual stimulus - I recall their favourite toys were buckets and buckets of LEGGOs - we could not by enough ... Hours of time being creative and inventive -  some of their creations were massive and decorated our lounge for weeks at a time as they kept coming back to rebuild or extend or remodel as a new idea came up. Still have those stored somewhere in the attic waiting for the next gen. There was a lot of common sense and practicality that was learnt from those little plastic pieces. They caught up on computers and other tech stuff pretty quick, but they were grounded.

Anyway, to bring this back to topic... I still feel that the root cause is that our society is becoming programmed and based around instant gratification. The entertainment industry KNOWs this and has made it BIG BUSINESS.  No better example than music and at the risk of sounding really really old ... I'd like to share the following with you...bear in mind I make that statement being a classically trained guitarist that has since ventured into blues, country, rock, pop etc etc etc so I am hardly a troglodyte.....

But have you ever though that music is getting simpler, more programmed, more and more similar .... listen on!

 

ITS MANUFACTURED AND OUR KIDS A PROGRAMMED! 

How do we break the cycle??

Cheers

Zoran

 

Well Zoran, what an interesting video, filled with heaps of information that I obviously already knew. Now I'm not being flippant here. I grew up with the "Mersey Sound" and worked my way through different genres of music (Country, Folk, Classical) to a time where my brain said to me "Stop listening, THIS IS CRAP". I feel blessed that I have been spared from having to stagger onto the Bandwagon which is "modern popular music". Has anybody actually thought "why do these modern female singers have to strip down to their underwear to present a rendition of their usual claptrap?" IT'S BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SING!

I really enjoyed your post and everything that you say is absolutely correct. But let's not write off the current generation. Sure they are very different, but it's a very different world today. One thing that has stuck in my mind for my entire life is a statement which my father said to me. He had come back to England after 4 years fighting the Japanese in the Far East, married and myself and 2 brothers were all born within 4 years. No doubt his life was tough and at times he must have wondered whether there was any hope for the future. When my 2 brothers and I were in our teens and we were playing The Beatles latest hit, non -stop, while joining in with our "air guitars", he said, "God help us if we ever have to rely on you lot for our future!" A statement which I'm sure he held true, at the time. Yet here I am many years later, having played my part...having contributed, having made a difference. So that statement taught me a very valuable lesson in life...things change, the world changes and people change, BUT LIFE GOES ON! Cheers, bn

[zmk1962]

7 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Zoran that was both fascinating and tragic! Thanks for putting it on I really enjoyed it. Cheers Waza

Thanks @wazatherfisherman.  Over time I think we may all have felt and commented about one or two points raised in that video - but the way that video captures and presents all the aspects and considerations is well -- almost artistic!  After watching that video it also occurred to me that so many moviesand TV shows are also "manufactured". ..you can almost set a clock by when the characters are introduced, the plot set up, the tension - leading to a climatic escalation arrrgh... 

2 hours ago, big Neil said:

I really enjoyed your post and everything that you say is absolutely correct. But let's not write off the current generation. Sure they are very different, but it's a very different world today.

Thanks @big Neil could not agree more. That's why I said in my post "at the risk of sounding really really old" ... just like my parents commenting about the music I was listening to - the very stuff that video promoted as being the epitome of creativity hahaha ! 

Each new generation develops new skills - usually based on the technology that has become pervasive at that time and that creates an opportunity for that generation  to succeed and solve things the previous generation could not. Pervasive connectivity is todays technology (FB being an implementation). I can already see that my kids are connected to others around the globe in a way that past generations could never be. Also the very nature of "collaboration" on an issue, has changed from using connectivity to simply exchange of facts or ideas formed in isolation (they way I collaborated) - to real time collaboration at every level of the problem solving - it's like a hive brain at work. This provides huge opportunity....but in my view ONLY if individuality and creativity is preserved. If they all think the same, it doesn't matter how many heads collaborate - you'll get the same answer.

So bringing it back to topic  - when @Fab1 wrote  "role of a man" - I didn't see it as a gender statement as much as a statement of "the role of an adult (vs child)".  Given the challenge that our society is becoming programmed and based around instant gratification - the best thing an adult can do is help promote our kids individuality and creativity  balanced with a respect for nature and each other.

Be a role model that teaches kids to question and assesses and form their INDIVIDUAL opinion. Its ok to have an opinion as long as you can back it up !  Spur on our kids to be creative and not just a consumer -  help them be confident to give it a go even if their creation is different. Failure is a path to success.

I think kids/young adults need that positive counter against the brute force of our entertainment industry coupled with social media connectivity - that are driving them to see themselves as a failure unless they become a homogenised  consumer - and be just like everyone else!

Cheers

Zoran (now back to fishing and boating -- hahaha)

[Scratchie]

So, after reading everyone’s comments, it inspired me to do something about it. 

Now this is not the “role of a man” but more a role of a parent thing! 

We decided to grab the keys from our friends property on the rural mid north coast and go spend a couple of days teaching our children things we did as kids! 

So. We’ve spent the last two days teaching them how to make a fire, a bow and arrow, a slingshot, no iPads etc, how to cook without power, how to make up games from nothing! We went fishing on the river, walking at night with a torch to view the wildlife, telling stories etc and they have had a ball.  

Just to add, we’ve had the opportunity to sleep on the comfort of the house but have chose to stay in the tent with no mods and cons just to add to the experience! 

Our days have been full and I think my wife and I have a new found respect from our kids and they have from us! So I think that’s it for now as I’m break the no social policy rule! 

Thanks for the inspiration raiders, I’m thoroughly enjoying myself! 

Cheers scratchie!!! 

[zmk1962]

AWESOME ..... You're a champion @Scratchie !!  

I bet you the kids had a blast as you (the parents) would have.  

Download that American Boys Handybook PDF ... it will inspire!

Cheers and Thanks for sharing.

Z