Trolling for Kings

[wazatherfisherman]

1 hour ago, GoingFishing said:

Champion advice there Wazza.

Certainly some interesting methods there worth a shot. 

Do you have a photo of the feathered lures mentioned above?

Hi GoingFishing sorry I can't take photo's of them as I'm moving to Murwillumbah on the 10th of December and they are packed in storage at Kennards. Maybe another raider could put a picture of one up? They are the basic silver headed red eyed white or red/white feathers. Or if you are an older fisho you may have the mother of pearl eyed version? Thanks in advance!

[blaxland]

Just a $2 pink squid with a sinker and hooks added got this rat 2 years ago still swimming I think

Edited November 9, 2018 by blaxland

[Berleyguts]

Red and white feather. Something like this, although you can get them with more red than white, too, sometimes:

 

[Volitan]

It’s interesting that most of the people here have had most of their success using lures in ‘shock colours’ rather then natural patterns. By shock colours I mean all white, or all white with prominent red, or all white with minor orange markings, or all white with a blue back.

I can’t help wondering why this is - and I think maybe it’s because kingfish are not pelagic fish even though they sometimes act like it. They might rise to feed in the water colum for a small percentage of their feeding time - and actually they don’t do a bad job of it - but their overwhelming adaptation is to life as a reef fish. We can therefore expect their responses and perception to be different to a true pelagic like a mackerel, bonito or tuna. True pelagics essentially run their prey down, so they are well adapted to seeing and pursuing baitfish prey against a surface or near-surface background. The fact that most of their prey has disruptive camouflage (like the mackerel pattern) is something they have largely adapted to overcome in a kind of evolutionary arms race.

Reef fish will more often feed by patrolling alone or in small groups and relying upon stealth and surprise to catch their prey after a short pursuit. Generally, reef fish seek shelter very quickly when a predator appears so the kingfish has only a split second to recognise prey and mount an attack. They may favour shock colours because they are only secondarily adapted to  pursuing surface-oriented baitfish and therefore are not particularly good at visually tracking a well camouflaged prey item. The shock colours elicit a feeding response in an ambush predator adapted to transient stimuli and allow them to track it easily - right down to actually grabbing it.

Of course I’m just speculating here.

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Volitan

[wazatherfisherman]

4 minutes ago, Berleyguts said:

Red and white feather. Something like this, although you can get them with more red than white, too, sometimes:

 

Thanks Baz legend! That one's got better eyes than the old ones I'm talking about, but exact right lure- I usually pull the red ones out. Thanks again!

[wazatherfisherman]

8 minutes ago, Volitan said:

It’s interesting that most of the people here have had most of their success using lures in ‘shock colours’ rather then natural patterns. By shock colours I mean all white, or all white with prominent red, or all white with minor orange markings, or all white with a blue back.

I can’t help wondering why this is - and I think maybe it’s because kingfish are not pelagic fish even though they sometimes act like it. They might rise to feed in the water colum for a small percentage of their feeding time - and actually they don’t do a bad job of it - but their overwhelming adaptation is to life as a reef fish. We can therefore expect their responses and perception to be different to a true pelagic like a mackerel, bonito or tuna. True pelagics essentially run their prey down, so they are well adapted to seeing and pursuing baitfish prey against a surface or near-surface background. The fact that most of their prey has disruptive camouflage (like the mackerel pattern) is something they have largely adapted to overcome in a kind of evolutionary arms race.

Reef fish will more often feed by patrolling alone or in small groups and relying upon stealth and surprise to catch their prey after a short pursuit. Generally, reef fish seek shelter very quickly when a predator appears so the kingfish has only a split second to recognise prey and mount an attack. They may favour shock colours because they are only secondarily adapted to  pursuing surface-oriented baitfish and therefore are not particularly good at visually tracking a well camouflaged prey item. The shock colours elicit a feeding response in an ambush predator and allow them to track it easily.

Of course I’m just speculating here.

 

Hi Volitan that is a very interesting and well thought out theory. I swear by the bright fluoro orange colour and it looks like nothing I've ever seen alive in the water, nevertheless it always invokes interest and more often than not a swipe at it from a curious (if not hungry) Kingy. My favourite deep dropping jig was a fluoro orange "Speed King Swivel Hip", favourite "minnow" Speed King XSP 9 inch in bright pink- neither resemble any baitfish I've ever seen, but a reef dweller mmm you might be onto something here!

[Blackfish]

1 minute ago, wazatherfisherman said:

H My favourite deep dropping jig was a fluoro orange "Speed King Swivel Hip", 

My favourite in the day to. It out fished every thing else at the time including  Irons, Mavericks etc and on memory it was the 5 oz not the smaller 3 oz that was the go.

I'm sure I still have a couple laying around.

[wazatherfisherman]

3 minutes ago, Blackfish said:

My favourite in the day to. It out fished every thing else at the time including  Irons, Mavericks etc and on memory it was the 5 oz not the smaller 3 oz that was the go.

I'm sure I still have a couple laying around.

Hi Blackfish the bigger one for the Peak and the smaller one was great at Montague Island. I have one larger one and 3 of the smaller ones (brand new!) left, 2 hot pink 1 orange. Agree was best jig at the time!

[Berleyguts]

45 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Thanks Baz legend! That one's got better eyes than the old ones I'm talking about, but exact right lure- I usually pull the red ones out. Thanks again!

Back in the 70s and 80s I used to read about guys getting big jew off the northern river breakwalls during floods... on... red and white feathers. 😉

In the early 80s I was fishing off Narooma in a 14ft tinny and the skipper hooked and played (for 30mins) an estimated 200lb black marlin on 6lb threadline gear while trolling for striped tuna... on... a red and white feather.

I always intend to troll a r&w feather as well as my xrap or skirted lures but I have enough trouble managing one lure solo!

Edited November 9, 2018 by Berleyguts

[Blackfish]

Never fished Montague but used them at the Peak and only used the Orange ones.

Used them on the Sported 3327A with the Penn Jigmaster.

Thanks mate, bought back some great memories.

[Blackfish]

They used to use the Red and White Feathers at Kildare and Box head for Jewies as well BG.

Used to read some great articles written by Gene Dundon (I think that was his surname) in the old Australian Angler.

As a kid I was wide eyed with awe.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Blackfish

[wazatherfisherman]

4 minutes ago, Blackfish said:

Never fished Montague but used them at the Peak and only used the Orange ones.

Used them on the Sported 3327A with the Penn Jigmaster.

Thanks mate, bought back some great memories.

I went through 2 rods- Butterworth JS980 "Jig King Deluxe" (Deluxe had a roller tip) then a custom Ironglass GH 10 or 14 can't remember which and 3 reels Penn Senator 113H (30 LB) then Penn Jigmaster 500l Aluminium spool (20 lb) then Daiwa Sealine 350H (10 kg- when ANSA changed to kg's)- I'd struggle to have 2 drops with the high speed jig these days LOL! Still have 2x JS980 Butterworths but the reels were stolen from Carramar nearly 20 years ago

[wazatherfisherman]

10 minutes ago, Blackfish said:

They used to use the Red and White Feathers at Kildare and Box head for Jewies as well BG.

Used to read some great articles written by Gene Dundon (I think that was his surname) in the old Australian Angler.

As a kid I was wide eyed with awe.

I read them as well- can't remember if it was Aust Angler or Anglers Digest that had a cover picture of 4 blokes with about 15 huge (50 lb +) jews taken on feathers and "chair leg" lures off South Ballina wall. Ross Garvan/vin wrote a couple about same at Yamba "T Piece"

[wazatherfisherman]

23 minutes ago, Berleyguts said:

Back in the 70s and 80s I used to read about guys getting big jew of the northern river breakwalls during floods... on... red and white feathers. 😉

In the early 80s I was fishing off Narooma in a 14ft tinny and the skipper hooked and played (for 30mins) an estimated 200lb black marlin on 6lb threadline gear while trolling for striped tuna... on... a red and white feather.

I always intend to troll a r&w feather as well as my xrap or skirted lures but I have enough trouble managing one solo!

Those feathers were the "go-to" lures for fishing the walls in flood for jew. We used to sell a whole range of them mail-order when I worked in tackle shop. They have a "sexy" wiggle on retrieve!

Maybe you should try the old white feathers next time you go for a troll! They caught just about everything that you could get trolling but lost favour to new "flashy" types of Konaheads and skirts which are of course good for billfish etc but like many have said not responsible for that many Kingies

[Berleyguts]

16 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Those feathers were the "go-to" lures for fishing the walls in flood for jew. We used to sell a whole range of them mail-order when I worked in tackle shop. They have a "sexy" wiggle on retrieve!

Maybe you should try the old white feathers next time you go for a troll! They caught just about everything that you could get trolling but lost favour to new "flashy" types of Konaheads and skirts which are of course good for billfish etc but like many have said not responsible for that many Kingies

I will! I still have my Konaheads from the 80s too... (except the one I lost to that huge yellowfin). I trolled them last season, hoping for marlin and I’ll troll them this season, too. I can’t see the point in buying new skirted lures, when I know the Konaheads work and I have so many of them! But I will put a feather in the spread. 😉

[wazatherfisherman]

3 minutes ago, Berleyguts said:

I will! I still have my Konaheads from the 80s too... (except the one I lost to that huge yellowfin). I trolled them last season, hoping for marlin and I’ll troll them this season, too. I can’t see the point in buying new skirted lures, when I know the Konaheads work and I have so many of them! But I will put a feather in the spread. 😉

I will be really surprised if you don't get a couple of Kingies on it up your way- even from the regular Bonito haunts. The new lures might "match the hatch" better but they don't swim like the good old feathers. Hope you have success- might start a "resurgence" of some older style gear!-  Also can buy about 10 feathers for the price of a new trolling lure!

[kingie chaser]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 5:43 PM, GoingFishing said:

Gday Raiders

With the kingfish season warmin up im just wondering what trolling lures everyone recommends for kingfish?

My go to lures are the deep diving xmas tree and the xrap bibbed diver in pilchard and bonito but i rarely get kings on those lures.

Also do you recommend trolling the lures down deeper, say in the middle of the water column?

 

Good thread GF & some good info in here for me to.

 

I really want a legal king this year inshore out of Botany bay or Port hacking & I have previously been reading up of what to use for trolling.

Some guys say you can use large knife jigs with a combination of weights, worth a try I guess??

 

BUT a lot of what I read is inline with what Paddy mentioned, buy a downrigger & my first choice would be live yakka's & squid but recon depending on their mood a lure with the downrigger would work.

 

I have often thought about a downrigger but always thought they were to expensive to even contemplate until now.

So for my Tinny I am looking at a Cannon manual mini which is reasonably priced & have actually found one cheaper than the RRP.

https://cannondownriggers.com.au/products/manual-downrigger/mini-troll/

 

What do you raiders think of this model for inshore & off a 13ft tinny??

Looks like a good pairing to me??

[PaddyT]

52 minutes ago, kingie chaser said:

 

Good thread GF & some good info in here for me to.

 

I really want a legal king this year inshore out of Botany bay or Port hacking & I have previously been reading up of what to use for trolling.

Some guys say you can use large knife jigs with a combination of weights, worth a try I guess??

 

BUT a lot of what I read is inline with what Paddy mentioned, buy a downrigger & my first choice would be live yakka's & squid but recon depending on their mood a lure with the downrigger would work.

 

I have often thought about a downrigger but always thought they were to expensive to even contemplate until now.

So for my Tinny I am looking at a Cannon manual mini which is reasonably priced & have actually found one cheaper than the RRP.

https://cannondownriggers.com.au/products/manual-downrigger/mini-troll/

 

What do you raiders think of this model for inshore & off a 13ft tinny??

Looks like a good pairing to me??

You really want a heavy duty rigger for offshore, 6lb-10lb bombs and a livie put a fair bit of strain on, trolling big lures is even harder. Cannons are a good brand as are Scotties.

[PaddyT]

14 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

Do you get many kings on this lure. I used to own one years ago but lost it one day on the botany FAD 😅.

 

Thanks Paddy thats great advice !!! 

The kind of fishing your talking about sounds like a dedicated day fishing for kings which i rarely/have never done. I will give it a try this summer but dont own a downrigger yet.

And thats why you dont catch many kings- target them and your results will change, if you go fishing for everything you generally catch nothing ! And i dont mean that in a negative way but remaining focussed is important

[PaddyT]

13 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Yup... all these had good write-ups somewhere and ended up accumulated in my tackle box over time hehehe. No idea why I have not had success with the hardbodies.  Like the other guys ... I troll 4-7kts (7-12km/h) ... and watch the rod tips to make sure they are showing lure action.  The skirts I troll faster 9-16km/h (typically 12) depending on conditions.

To @PaddyT's great advice, I have downrigged and had some success with squid (live and frozen) but have struggled with live yakka/slimies as my 200hp 2stroke idles at 700rpm and in gear that pushes my rig close to 4km/h and its too fast and the bait doesn't last ... ideally with live yakka/slimies you should be at dead slow 2-3km/h.  (I don't like to troll near rocks on the 15hp Aux).

Cheers Z

4kmh per hour is fine, i even go a bit faster under certain conditions, the downrigger holds them in the water and breathing no probs! If you are having problems with flatlined livies dying its because the angle of the line from the rod tip drags them up all the time and they die quickly, use a rubberband off your line and wrap it on a cleat so the line angle is flat (or even the reel handle which is what i do)

[kingie chaser]

25 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

You really want a heavy duty rigger for offshore, 6lb-10lb bombs and a livie put a fair bit of strain on, trolling big lures is even harder. Cannons are a good brand as are Scotties.

As mentioned, inshore, Botany bay & port hacking!

[Welster]

2 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

As mentioned, inshore, Botany bay & port hacking!

I have a downigger but haven’t ysed it a lot.   But have lost a good king in the Hacking using it.    Mine in a Scotty 1080 with an 8lb bomb I think.

My thoughts are you will be disappointed if you buy a light duty one like you are thinking and will soend mire upgradinging later.   

It would be better to look out got a heavier duty one second hand IMHO. I’m sure others in here with more experience will comment. 

[The Iceman]

17 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Pictures as promised.

For me - all these skirts worked on Kings at different times (the pink pakula even landed a 70+kg striped marlin)

Top two are resin head and bottom two solid metal heads

All these metal jets have also caught kings

This Rapala is yet to catch a fish (it caught me in the tackle store though) !!!

Infact not much luck for me with all these hardbodies - rapala, halco etc ..  But then when I look at them through @Volitan's eyes -- they are mostly natural colours  maybe that's my problem.   

Anyway ... I have focused on the skirts mainly ..... but this season I'll certainly try airbrushing "Qantas colours" on a few and have another go with the hard bodies ! 

Cheers Zoran

There's a rare lure in that box Elliot's Darwin dart great bonnie lure

Kings caught plenty on nils masters and lively lures blue pilly trolling south of Port Hacking

[GoingFishing]

Many thanks to all for the advice thus far...a very knowledgeable group who are willing to share. Thanks again

So the two key takeaways for me are:

1. Add some feather and skirted lures in red/white and shock colors to my arsenal for trolling and

2. Save up for a downrigger and learn the downrigging livies method.

I have used the poor mans downrigger method some years ago slow trolling a live squid off north heaf and managed a nice rat. Might have to do that until i buy and fit a proper downrigger.

Out of interest, can anyone recommend a good spot to find small sized slimie mackeral off sydney? All the slimies iv been getting in the last two weeks are quite large.  

I also need to invest some time to learn how to catch squid 😅

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by GoingFishing

[Blackfish]

Years ago, for deep trolling and before Downriggers were the go, people used Paravanes for what you want to do and they worked a treat.

Also there is some BIG Kings around and the size that a 2-3kg Salmon would be needed.