Trolling for Kings

[zmk1962]

2 hours ago, The Iceman said:

There's a rare lure in that box Elliot's Darwin dart great bonnie lure

Yeah @The Iceman its accounted for many a bonnie but staying true to @GoingFishing's topic I cannot claim a single kingy on it... nevertheless it is the closest to the Qantas Colours in that kit bag.

Cheers Z

[kingie chaser]

Think I might do a bit of research & look at doing a DIY downrigger for a bit of a project.

 

I need some sort of challenge atm  

[GoingFishing]

1 hour ago, zmk1962 said:

Yeah @The Iceman its accounted for many a bonnie but staying true to @GoingFishing's topic I cannot claim a single kingy on it... nevertheless it is the closest to the Qantas Colours in that kit bag.

Cheers Z

Happy to divert.....in my experience by fa the most lethal lure for trolling bonnies is the christmas tree (which appears very similar or the same as the Qantas colors).

[Sea Ranger]

In the early 80s when I was a teenager I worked my summers on charter boats on Lake Michigan in Wisconsin USA.  We always used downriggers, outriggers and planing boards.   Good fun it was. We only targeted salmon.

have any of you tried these ?

Downriggers

 

Bear

Edited November 10, 2018 by Sea Ranger

[savit]

4 hours ago, Blackfish said:

Years ago, for deep trolling and before Downriggers were the go, people used Paravanes for what you want to do and they worked a treat.

Also there is some BIG Kings around and the size that a 2-3kg Salmon would be needed.

I was considering one.  Are there any cons of Paravanes?

[wazatherfisherman]

4 hours ago, Blackfish said:

Years ago, for deep trolling and before Downriggers were the go, people used Paravanes for what you want to do and they worked a treat.

Also there is some BIG Kings around and the size that a 2-3kg Salmon would be needed.

Thumbs up for the paravanes and I still have a Yamashita "Diving Board" shaped like a bent-up mini surfboard that had a few different tow-point holes for different depths- no comparison to a downrigger but helped catch a few fish and to be honest I don't think 'riggers' were really on the Aust market back then!

[wazatherfisherman]

19 minutes ago, savit said:

I was considering one.  Are there any cons of Paravanes?

Hi Andrew the cons of paravanes are that they stay on your line while fishing and are mostly suitable for smaller sized lures/baits- I don't know if they still sell the larger variety. The Yamashita (I think it's Yamashita haven't used it for years) diving board was a bit larger and when you got a strike they flipped over 180 degrees which reduced line pressure. You might be able to add a small Scotty brand release clip to a larger paravane so you could run it independently of your line- just a thought

[Blackfish]

49 minutes ago, savit said:

I was considering one.  Are there any cons of Paravanes?

I was just thinking of the cost issue for you Savit.

They used them years ago and worked so maybe you could try something like this just to have a go without the outlay.

Waz I was thinking of running it independently with the release clip as you suggested.

I haven't had a Google but there maybe some info available mate.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Blackfish

[wazatherfisherman]

7 minutes ago, Blackfish said:

I was just thinking of the cost issue for you Savit.

They used them years ago and worked so maybe you could try something like this just to have a go without the outlay.

Waz I was thinking of running it independently with the release clip as you suggested.

I haven't had a Google but there maybe some info available mate.

When I used the diving board I ran it on 30 lb rather than usual 20 lb as it does create a bit of drag. I bought a couple of the Scotty release clips to (use as PaddyT suggested)- keep the bait lower angle to help keep them alive a bit longer but the rubber band around reel handle as he suggested is probably a better and easier option. 1 of those cheaper black clothes peg style Scotty ones would be ideal to use crimped on a paravane/board style rigger. Or use the old Jensen "Dodger" style flasher- the "Krockadile" type were good for getting bait down deeper but you had to "fight" them as well as the fish!

[PaddyT]

Downrigger has big advantages over a paravane- you can change and control the depth much easier with a downrigger, as for salmon for livebait, ive tried a few times during spring when the salmon are balled up but ive only hooked makos, i know the kiwis use them but ive not had any luck, live micro bonito and frigates on the other hand get smashed

[Botany Bay Fishing]

yes love all the info here.

Got this 80cm king in Botany Bay a while back trolling Rapala X-rap lures.

All the proper info is in the vid

 

 

[kingie chaser]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:57 AM, PaddyT said:

Downrigger has big advantages over a paravane- you can change and control the depth much easier with a downrigger

Sure I don't think anyone doubts that.

But its trying to justifying spending the coin on one for someone that doesn't spend that much time on the water!

 

hence why most people in that situation are willing to spend $10 on a paravane over $300+ on a downrigger.

[Botany Bay Fishing]

1 hour ago, kingie chaser said:

Sure I don't think anyone doubts that.

But its trying to justifying spending the coin on one for someone that doesn't spend that much time on the water!

 

hence why most people in that situation are willing to spend $10 on a paravane over $300+ on a downrigger.

Poor mans Downrigger Works a treat also

[PaddyT]

16 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

Sure I don't think anyone doubts that.

But its trying to justifying spending the coin on one for someone that doesn't spend that much time on the water!

 

hence why most people in that situation are willing to spend $10 on a paravane over $300+ on a downrigger.

So you'd spend a few hundred on lures that dont work anywhere near as well? 

[GoingFishing]

On 11/11/2018 at 9:57 AM, PaddyT said:

Downrigger has big advantages over a paravane- you can change and control the depth much easier with a downrigger, as for salmon for livebait, ive tried a few times during spring when the salmon are balled up but ive only hooked makos, i know the kiwis use them but ive not had any luck, live micro bonito and frigates on the other hand get smashed

Hi Paddy, out of interest, what do you regard as a micro bonito/frigate....the smallest iv caught on bait or trolling is 30-35cm.

Also, where would you go to catch them for live bait?

 

[PaddyT]

If there around , they are around, 30-35 cm as a livey is a great size, kings will harrase bigger bonnies but not eat them easily, if we see frigates on top we spin one up and whack a hook through its nose and fish it where we caught it

[Nolongeramember]

17 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

If there around , they are around, 30-35 cm as a livey is a great size, kings will harrase bigger bonnies but not eat them easily, if we see frigates on top we spin one up and whack a hook through its nose and fish it where we caught it

Paddy how do you keep them alive? If I spin one up it dies as soon as I put it back into the water. 

[zmk1962]

I'd be interested to hear how @PaddyT does it.... for me, I have found that bridle rigging a live bait keeps it alive the longest as it does not interfere with its normal breathing.  If its a small bait an elastic band works, if its bigger like a small bonnie then a loop of dacron does the job. It's simplest if you have a live bait needle. I have the needle and elastic bands / loops of dacron easily accessible on my cutting board ready to go - so the bait spends minimum time out of the water.

Cheers Zoran

[Nolongeramember]

2 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

I'd be interested to hear how @PaddyT does it.... for me, I have found that bridle rigging a live bait keeps it alive the longest as it does not interfere with its normal breathing.  If its a small bait an elastic band works, if its bigger like a small bonnie then a loop of dacron does the job. It's simplest if you have a live bait needle. I have the needle and elastic bands / loops of dacron easily accessible on my cutting board ready to go - so the bait spends minimum time out of the water.

Cheers Zoran

I’m referring specifically to Frigates. No matter how well I treat them or how fast I get them back out as a live bait they quickly die. 

[PaddyT]

You need to be fast, i drop them upside down into a wet towel and if i have the gear ready i bridle them , but again, I aim to have them out of the water for less than 30 seconds, so practice your bridle rigging at home with a dead fish if you want toget better at it, otherwise i just whack a 8/0 throuhgh the nose and the other thing is dont knock the boat out of gear, keep moving forwards, as soon as the bait hits the water it will have water forced through its mouth and gills, if you stand still the frigate or bonnie will die, also dont bugger around getting them in, use some stick! The dont last as long as a yakka but if they get eaten who cares.

[Nolongeramember]

3 hours ago, PaddyT said:

You need to be fast, i drop them upside down into a wet towel and if i have the gear ready i bridle them , but again, I aim to have them out of the water for less than 30 seconds, so practice your bridle rigging at home with a dead fish if you want toget better at it, otherwise i just whack a 8/0 throuhgh the nose and the other thing is dont knock the boat out of gear, keep moving forwards, as soon as the bait hits the water it will have water forced through its mouth and gills, if you stand still the frigate or bonnie will die, also dont bugger around getting them in, use some stick! The dont last as long as a yakka but if they get eaten who cares.

Yep, I haul them it real quick and they are back into the water quick smart, but they pretty much die as soon as they go back in. I haven't tried trolling them, only at anchor so that must be my mistake. Thanks.

[Green Hornet]

Back in my landbased game days I almost used frigates as live baits exclusively. 

As soon as one hit the lure I didn't strike but just kept winding holding the rod low and not letting the fish get its head. Keeping the line tight the only way they can swim is straight at you and you can get them out of the water in seconds.

Holding the frigate upside down to keep it calm the hook went straight through its snout and the fish was back in the water in the blink of an eye. I'd then let the fish run until I sensed it was slowing down, up the drag lever to put just the slightest amount of drag pressure on and wind the fish back at a brisk pace. This would run oxygenated water through its gills and revive the fish. By repeating this process over and over it was possible to keep a frigate alive for up to 30 minutes.

It was always interesting to note kings first grab a frigate by the tail and twist to break the fishes spine at the tail to immobilise it, before taking the bait headfirst.

I have no doubt they'd last a lot longer trolling. The key is be prepared and get them back into the water ASAP.

[zmk1962]

4 hours ago, Hateanchors said:

I haven't tried trolling them, only at anchor so that must be my mistake. Thanks.

Yup... Sorry should have made it clearer... I was referring to trolling with bridle rigs vs generic live baiting as the Topic was about Trolling.  

Cheers Z

[PaddyT]

14 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

Back in my landbased game days I almost used frigates as live baits exclusively. 

As soon as one hit the lure I didn't strike but just kept winding holding the rod low and not letting the fish get its head. Keeping the line tight the only way they can swim is straight at you and you can get them out of the water in seconds.

Holding the frigate upside down to keep it calm the hook went straight through its snout and the fish was back in the water in the blink of an eye. I'd then let the fish run until I sensed it was slowing down, up the drag lever to put just the slightest amount of drag pressure on and wind the fish back at a brisk pace. This would run oxygenated water through its gills and revive the fish. By repeating this process over and over it was possible to keep a frigate alive for up to 30 minutes.

It was always interesting to note kings first grab a frigate by the tail and twist to break the fishes spine at the tail to immobilise it, before taking the bait headfirst.

I have no doubt they'd last a lot longer trolling. The key is be prepared and get them back into the water ASAP.

Yep, dead right, i always reckonned that most tuna species go into a state of temporary "shock" when they are first hooked, we used to take advantage of that when the giant schools of striped tuna used to form up in spring inshore off Sydney. We used to spin for them with our rockfishing spin rods, 25 lb mono and a 1/2x1/4 with 4/0 bronze trebles, we used to get the hookup, keep the rod up high and "skip" the tuna to the boat, we would catch 40-50 in a morning session and use them for bait for the rest of the year, if they got their heads down then you actually had to fight them. Different on light gear of course. And yeah, off the rocks or a stationary boat you can "troll" the frigate by letting him out on freespool and then slowly winding him back, repeat, repeat , repeat.

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi Paddy great point about using bronze trebles. I don't reckon a lot of younger fisho's would realise the value of using the bronze trebles as opposed to the common use of silver coloured trebles regardless of  the various strength and rust proofing qualities. Better hook-ups and far, far better "matching the hatch" properties