kingie chaser

Re wiring LED lights on tralier help

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Hi raiders, Im have replaced my rear & side LED trailer lights on my Dunbier & trailer & on the rear I have stop & blinkers working fine but some reason have no tail lights(when the headlights are turned on) so not sure what is going on there?

LED.thumb.jpg.009fcfc044fabbea3a29f32482445164.jpg

Also put the exact same side lights on that were on the trailer & replaced the wiring right up to this connector/joiner plug but the side lights, both blinker & tail/stop lights are not working.

58-series.thumb.jpg.22e43a05e76e84db3bc66d207b8cf50a.jpg

 

I am thinking this harness pin/joiner might be faulty & am thinking of replacing it but not even sure what it is or what to replace it with, cant find what it is on the net.

pin.thumb.jpg.943d79d41cc47717fe91975a7137c606.jpg

Basically for each side the 2 wires come in from the side lights & join up with the 4 wires from the rear lights to this T pin that connects to the 7 pin connector.

Sorry for the out of focus pic but you can make out this T connector Im talking about.

Any suggestions on my next move would be great.

Cheers

Adrian

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Do you have a 12v test lamp or meter? If so put plug in and turn lights on and work towards the lights . Jim

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32 minutes ago, JimC said:

Do you have a 12v test lamp or meter? If so put plug in and turn lights on and work towards the lights . Jim

Hi Jim, Yes I have a multi meter & can check the side coming from the vehicle but if the fault in on the trailer light side pins I don't know how I would check that?

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Hi Adrian,

BTW, was everything working before you rewired the trailer or were you fixing a specific problem? 

Also if everything was working previously then most probably the wiring up to where you made changes is ok... and the issues are where you have made your new connections OR at the light connections themselves

I find it difficult to follow what exactly is happening as at the start you say "I have stop & blinkers working fine but some reason have no tail lights" and then later you say " but the side lights, both blinker & tail/stop lights are not working".

But from what you describe it sounds like you have some cross connected wires... there maybe other issues but as @JimC implied, you need to start isolating the problem starting with whats coming out of your vehicle and working back to the lights. 

Regarding where you made connections - am I understanding correctly that on your trailer you have a 7pin plug (that connects to the car) and that plug is connected to the T - connector - which splits into 2 connectors.  You made all your changes after these 2 connectors... right? 

If so, I suggest you undo your connections, plug the 7pin into the car and run a test to clearly identify all the wires coming out of each of the 2 connectors -- ie which wire is the -ve and which are the +ve for the brakes, lights, side lights, blinkers etc  ....

Have a read through this post - where I previously attached a trailer plug wiring diagram and some diagnostic tips.

 

At the lights connections, bear in mind that each light should have two wires: a solid earth (-ve) connection and a positive (+ve) that only receives power when that light is activated - from a switch or brake pedal action.  

In most simple wiring schemes, the -ve should be on all the time, and many trailer wiring issues are a result of a poor or missing earth at a light fitting -- or a cross connected +ve .

PM me if you want to discuss.

Cheers and best of luck.

Zoran

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I don’t use connectors, but I remember seeing them, I think they are called ‘ledlink’ connectors

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

Hi Adrian,

BTW, was everything working before you rewired the trailer or were you fixing a specific problem? 

Also if everything was working previously then most probably the wiring up to where you made changes is ok... and the issues are where you have made your new connections OR at the light connections themselves

I find it difficult to follow what exactly is happening as at the start you say "I have stop & blinkers working fine but some reason have no tail lights" and then later you say " but the side lights, both blinker & tail/stop lights are not working".

But from what you describe it sounds like you have some cross connected wires... there maybe other issues but as @JimC implied, you need to start isolating the problem starting with whats coming out of your vehicle and working back to the lights. 

Regarding where you made connections - am I understanding correctly that on your trailer you have a 7pin plug (that connects to the car) and that plug is connected to the T - connector - which splits into 2 connectors.  You made all your changes after these 2 connectors... right? 

If so, I suggest you undo your connections, plug the 7pin into the car and run a test to clearly identify all the wires coming out of each of the 2 connectors -- ie which wire is the -ve and which are the +ve for the brakes, lights, side lights, blinkers etc  ....

Have a read through this post - where I previously attached a trailer plug wiring diagram and some diagnostic tips.

 

At the lights connections, bear in mind that each light should have two wires: a solid earth (-ve) connection and a positive (+ve) that only receives power when that light is activated - from a switch or brake pedal action.  

In most simple wiring schemes, the -ve should be on all the time, and many trailer wiring issues are a result of a poor or missing earth at a light fitting -- or a cross connected +ve .

PM me if you want to discuss.

Cheers and best of luck.

Zoran

Thanks for the reply Zoran, so what happened was the original shity Dunbier rear right LED had broken its seal & the when I opened it the brake globes had corroded but the blinker was still working.

When I cut that light assembly off I checked the wiring & all 4 wires (red/green/yellow/white) all looked finr with no discolouration so I left the wiring there to the back of the trailer & individually rejoined the new.LED assembly with heat shrink solder connections & double heat shrink over the join.

The left rear side was still sealed with the blinker working, the brake working but no light when the headlights were on.

Did the same wiring job as the right side.

Go to the side lights & the left light wire had actually been done up in the mud guard bolt & all the wires crushed, the earth & power light on the were burned or corroded as when I cut it off to have a look the wires were rusty so I did a full new 7.5amp wire from the to the T connection.

Sorry just finished my break at work so will continue when I get home.

Edited by kingie chaser

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12 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

I checked the wiring & all 4 wires (red/green/yellow/white) all looked finr with no discolouration so I left the wiring there to the back of the trailer & individually rejoined the new.LED assembly

Adrian, regarding the rear RH light, did you do a test to confirm the purpose of each coloured wire ? If so, can you write up what each colour does (it will be easier to refer to colours going forward).  The 4 wires should be - blinker, brake, tail light, earth. Sometimes the electricians don't follow the colour convention so its best to always check what each coloured wire does on your specific trailer.

To help with the diagnostics, can you confirm what is actually working on RH side:

Brake: y/n

Blinker: y/n

Tail Light: y/n

If anything above is working it confirms we have an earth -ve connection coming in somewhere.

12 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

left rear side was still sealed with the blinker working, the brake working but no light when the headlights were on.

Regarding rear LH light, how many wires were in this loom. Again there should be 4. If you only had 3 then they would be blinker, brake and earth and that would explain why you have no tail light. If you have 4 wires there, then you are not sending power down the wire that connects to the tail light LED (or the connection at the light or LED is stuffed).

 

13 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

side lights & the left light wire had actually been done up in the mud guard bolt & all the wires crushed, the earth & power light on the were burned

Regarding the side lights.  These should be the simplest. There are only 2 wires  a +ve and -ve. If you replaced this wire all the way to the T connector then we can assume the wires are ok and not broken.

So if the side lights are not working two things come to mind.

1. you have the +ve and -ve wires crossed over. If polarity is reversed the LED will not work... as I understand it LEDs are polarity sensitive.  OR

2. when the original wires were crushed, they caused a short circuit that blew a fuse somewhere further up (perhaps in the vehicle wiring).

The side light +ve should have power when you turn on your lights. It typically runs off the same circuit (wire) that feeds power to the Tail light(s) ... BTW, does your number plate light work? The number plate light runs off the same circuit as well.

So please confirm, do your car Tail lights come on? if not check you car fuses. If yes, check the car 7pin trailer connector to confirm its sending power to the trailer? Turn the car lights on and put your multimeter across Pin 7 (Tail light) and Pin 3 (earth). You should see 12V.

Cheers Zoran

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, zmk1962 said:

Hi Zoran, thanks for your reply & patients!

I know its really hard to assess something as hard as this without seeing it & knowing every last detail but I will answer your questions to the best of my knowledge-

 

Adrian, regarding the rear RH light, did you do a test to confirm the purpose of each coloured wire?-No, I just wired it exactly the same as the old lights 

If so, can you write up what each colour does (it will be easier to refer to colours going forward).  The 4 wires should be - blinker, brake, tail light, earth. Sometimes the electricians don't follow the colour convention so its best to always check what each coloured wire does on your specific trailer.

So yes 4 wires from the assembly, white(earth), yellow(blinkers), red(stop), brown(tail lights), connected to same colours on the existing wiring from the T connection.

To help with the diagnostics, can you confirm what is actually working on RH side:

Brake: yes

Blinker: yes

Tail Light: no

If anything above is working it confirms we have an earth -ve connection coming in somewhere.

Regarding rear LH light, how many wires were in this loom 4, same as other RH side.

Again there should be 4. If you only had 3 then they would be blinker, brake and earth and that would explain why you have no tail light. If you have 4 wires there, then you are not sending power down the wire that connects to the tail light LED (or the connection at the light or LED is stuffed).

 

Regarding the side lights.  These should be the simplest. There are only 2 wires  a +ve and -ve. If you replaced this wire all the way to the T connector then we can assume the wires are ok and not broken.

Also what is VE + & - ??

So if the side lights are not working two things come to mind.

1. you have the +ve and -ve wires crossed over. If polarity is reversed the LED will not work... as I understand it LEDs are polarity sensitive.  OR

So the 6 inches of wire from the side LED;s are brown & white BUT the main wire to the T connector was black & red, so I wired it up the same as the previous shity join with the black connected to the white & red to brown, the new 2 core wire I purchased was also black & red!

1277409002_Sidelightwired.thumb.jpg.d4dd599be7b78eb4f1682ae5ea3747fe.jpg

2. when the original wires were crushed, they caused a short circuit that blew a fuse somewhere further up (perhaps in the vehicle wiring).

I am going to check my fuses, all my car lights are working fine so don't think that's the cause but I will check to see if there is some taillight fuse! 

The side light +ve should have power when you turn on your lights. It typically runs off the same circuit (wire) that feeds power to the Tail light(s) ... BTW, does your number plate light work? That I will have to check!!

The number plate light runs off the same circuit as well.

So the 2 side light wires go into the male connection along with the 4 wires from the rear light, I presume the splice the white to white & the red(which is actually the brown) also to the brown??

So this is the male 7 plug that comes from the T connection, its then split into 5 wires so I presume somewhere in this connection it creates the green right turn signal wire.

154409697_7pinplug.thumb.jpg.47b0351964a028c2861456ba906c2a92.jpg

So please confirm, do your car Tail lights come on? Yes if not check you car fuses. If yes, check the car 7pin trailer connector to confirm its sending power to the trailer? Turn the car lights on and put your multimeter across Pin 7 (Tail light) and Pin 3 (earth). You should see 12V.

 

Quote

 

Cheers Zoran

So basically from what I can see I have wired it all up as it was before when all the lights were working when I bought the trailer 3 years ago, I will check my fuses & the number plate light on the car as well.

*Also note that with the side lamp I have only done the left side to date & the new wires are connected to the last 2 inches of the wires coming from the male T connector.

Not sure if this T connection & joiners is where the problem lies but I am not a fan of it & now even sure why it exists??

Im going to test all this out now so see what comes of it.

Once again appreciated the assistance :biggrinthumb:

Edited by kingie chaser

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Sometimes ( pretty rare ) the little wire connectors within the plug close up and the male part doesn't make contact with the female part, get a small flat screwdriver and put in gap and open up slightly (not too far ) so that both are in contact with each other.

Frank

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Posted (edited)

Thanks frank Ill try that to.

Just.checked fuses & all good, checked number oleate light on vehicle & working.

I'll do a multi meter test from the 7 pin female connection from the car 1st then connect up the male 7 pin to it & test the female connections of the T joint & see what happens from there.

At least that should eliminate a few things from the equation but the fact that I have blinkers & brakes on the 2 rear lights & no taillights is a bit baffling.

Edited by kingie chaser

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Posted (edited)

Great reminder @frankS... well worth checking... we are looking for solid connections at all points.

2 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

Also what is VE + & - ??

Sorry should have made it clearer:  +ve means Positive, -ve means Negative (just engineers shorthand).

2 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

So the 6 inches of wire from the side LED;s are brown & white BUT the main wire to the T connector was black & red, so I wired it up the same as the previous shity join with the black connected to the white & red to brown, the new 2 core wire I purchased was also black & red!

1277409002_Sidelightwired.thumb.jpg.d4dd599be7b78eb4f1682ae5ea3747fe.jpg

Ok so it just happens that I am also re-wiring my side lights today... and I think I have the same ones as yours....

image.png.285a32b0ed2db3316527db14834fa4c4.png

 

image.png.462cdacb6e68b267ae74c8f96f503794.png

My ones show that at the light WHITE is GND - ground (earth / negative) and BROWN is VCC or supply voltage (positive). 

You need to make sure your Black wire is Negative and Red Wire is feeding Positive.

2 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

So the 2 side light wires go into the male connection along with the 4 wires from the rear light, I presume the splice the white to white & the red(which is actually the brown) also to the brown??

The way I see the wiring:  

For Side lights - 

7pin plug White (negative)  ---> T piece White ----> new sidelight cable Black ----> Side light White

7pin plug Brown (positive)  ---> T piece Brown ----> new sidelight cable Red -----> Side light Brown

So back at your T connector:

image.png.e965136599a38a743f16c5f15af7455b.png

If you unplug the 2 connectors, can you check which pins inside have power (positive) when you turn on lights (Tail lights, blinkers (LH, RH) and brakes. Do it one at a time. Also, figure out which is Earth (negative). That will check if you are actually getting all the connections through the T piece. And help you determine if all wire colours are in the correct connections.

Cheers Zoran

 

Edited by zmk1962
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14 minutes ago, Mmg said:

Plus im going to be putting my lights up high on the trailer guide posts.

so they never get submerged. 

sealed trailer led lights get minute cracks and water gets in, had it happen a few times now!

MMG Be careful with putting the lights up high. I am pretty sure that in NSW there is still a maximum of I think 1.5 metres high, that is from road level. Check regs before going to the trouble of fitting them.

Frank

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1 hour ago, Mmg said:

Too many joins n plugs i recon.

 If it was me id be getting rid of all the connections and joins.

Yup. I prefer simple straight through wiring and only use connections where I frequently have to disconnect and reconnect. 

Just trying to help Adrian get his working with minimum changes as per his request. 

1 hour ago, Mmg said:

sealed trailer led lights get minute cracks and water gets in, had it happen a few times now!

Mine have been on since 2001. No issue. They were installed on flat surfaces and I made sure nothing was over tightened.  Given the nature of my boat both bogeys get submerged and the lights out back can go close to 50cm underwater. 

Cheers Z

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Posted (edited)

Getting rid of this join was sort of part of my original question & again in the last post when I said I dont even know why this is set up this way.

I'll do the checks on this set up & the pins etc but IF I was to change it can you offer me a suggestion as to how I would do away with this connection for a straight through set up?

So I presume I just join the 2 stop light wires at the pin, same for the taillight, & earth obviously left & right blinker to thier own positions & also side led earth combined with rear & side light brown(positive) to stop or taillight?

OR do I splice these before the pin so a single wire only goes into each pin?

Yep Zoran they look the same  autolamp led 58ARM.

Edited by kingie chaser

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Posted (edited)

After thinking about it overnight I think I will just get rid of the T join altogether, to many things that can go wrong with these small pin connectors I recon & also realise the later in my last post is the only way it will work anyway.

Splice below the 7 pin connector!

Edited by kingie chaser

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10 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

I dont even know why this is set up this way.

Its probably done that way by Dunbier as part of their mass production process - its an way easier for them to wire up hundreds of mass produced trailers - rather then individually wire each trailer, they can make all the wiring looms up on a bench, and just push the small connector through holes in the trailer chassis, plug together and done. Unskilled labour could do it.

10 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

can you offer me a suggestion as to how I would do away with this connection for a straight through set up

Adrian, you have pretty well answered this later in your last two posts.

You only have two considerations really.

1. Connect all the wires at the 7-pin plug. Just check how many wires you have there (as combined together and covered with heat-shrink or tape the cable might end up thick and inflexible). That may be ok if your car plug faces toward the trailer, It may be a problem if you need to bend all the wires because of the position of your car plug.

2. Run a length of 5 or 7 wire cable from the 7-pin plug back and do all your cable connections there - pick a spot where they connections will be out of the way and where they will not have movement. This will give you a flexible and light cable at the car.  Mines done this way. I have enough spare cable so that the connections are tucked into the hollow of the trailer chassis out of the way. Of course solder, heatshrink and waterproof heatshrink all the connections.  

Cheers Zoran

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So before I went all gung ho & made those changes to the trailer harness I thought I had better start by multi meter testing from the power source...……………..the car.

So checked the power from the blinkers L & R & all fine, checked the stop lights(brakes) & all fine, turn the lights on & check the rear lamps(brown wire) & nothing so I figure now I may have found the reason for at least not having any lamps on the rear trailer light assembly on although the side marker lamps of the trailer would be on the same circuit as far as I can see?

So I unscrew the 7 pin plug from the towbar & open it up & didn't like the look of it with black carbon in the connectors so I replaced it, been a lot of dust getting in there from 4x4 tracks & also been spraying it with WD40 so changed it for a new Narva also didn't know what this frayed nylon was in the middle & it wasn't going anywhere so figured its a sort of packing down the centre of the 5 wires, just never seen it before. .

1507890049_car7pin.thumb.jpg.98fd61d647ea167b3564ae2a709c1c8c.jpg

On re testing it & hoping the 7 pin plug was the issue I still didn't have any power on the brown rear lamp pin so now I am thinking there is an issue there??

As mentioned I have all lights working on the vehicle & all fuses are ok so not sure whats going on.

 

The only thing I can think of now is to check where the connection is from the car to the tow bar wiring harness.

Not even sure where that is so would have to start tracing wires back from under the car.

I did notice there were a few connectors under the rear of the car but didn't get to looking at those yet but that's the next step anyway 🤨

I love trying to do things myself but I guess there comes a time where you have to swallow your pride & go to an auto electrician!

Still I will dig a bit deeper into the car to 7 pin wiring connection.

Any more ideas @zmk1962?

 

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Hi Adrian, 

That's what I suggested way earlier ....  check the car 7pin connector.

On 3/10/2019 at 9:30 AM, zmk1962 said:

check the car 7pin trailer connector to confirm its sending power to the trailer?

If all your car lights are working (blinker, brake, tail, numberplate etc), but you are not seeing power at the 7pin connector pin then you have pretty much established that its a broken connection of that wire OR  that wire itself is broken somewhere.  Either way you have to do what you said - trace it back.

You can do it yourself... or pay an Auto electrician.  Its not rocket science and if you have time then you know you will do it right.

Brown is Tail light, so for simplicity the Auto elecs often tap into that wire somewhere close by - I'd have a look in the boot behind the car tail lights first. You may be luck and find the "brown" wire.

Cheers Zoran

 

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I much appreciate the advice through the thread Zoran, while I guess I have answered my own questions at times I also was just bouncing ideas or concerns around that I wasn't 100% on.

Although its not sorted I think I can figure it out from here & if not have to see the auto electrician.

Thanks again for the help mate :thumbup: 

 

 

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Hey thanks for your kind words Adrian.... just trying to help where I can...  its what raiders do ! 

Hope you get it sorted soon. 

Cheers Zoran

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1 hour ago, zmk1962 said:

Hey thanks for your kind words Adrian.... just trying to help where I can...  its what raiders do !

Cheers Zoran

Yes mate 100%, were not here for self glorification but to be part of a community of like minded people with a common interest.

I wouldn't be here otherwise 😉

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What vehicle is it? 

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Adrian, just an additional thought.  While you are working on tracing your cars 7pin plug tail light wire, it would be good if you hooked up your trailer to another car's 7pin connector (preferably one where you know everything is working).

If this test proves the boat trailer lights are fixed, then perhaps waterproof heatshrink over those Tpin connectors and you'll probably be done for years to come.

Maybe someone in your street has a tow bar with 7pin connector, or a raider lives near by. Not sure which area you live in, I'm Castle Hill way.

Cheers Zoran

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Yeh thats a great idea.

Not sure if I know anyone who tows but I'll have to contact a couple of mates & ask the question.

Thanks for the offer but Castle hill is a long way from Randwick!

 Sure I will find someone local.

Cheers again.

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