GoingFishing

BRP (Evinrude) acquires 80% ownership of Telwater (Quintrex)

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I thought BRP were a Canadian company?

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9 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

https://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/details/brp-takes-control-of-aussie-boat-builder-telwater-118263/

I guess this shows a genuine commitment by the Yanks to the Aussie boating market. 

Nope - its all about getting motors on hulls- watch the manufacturing plant move to Asia. I wandered through a Quintrex dealer a couple of weeks ago and they are nicely finished hulls but i really couldnt believe the prices for what is essentially a tinny.

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They are a good boat as I have the Stacer 509 Searunner with a 115 Evinrude and it is good in a swell and flies on the flat - top speed 37knots

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1 hour ago, PaddyT said:

Nope - its all about getting motors on hulls- watch the manufacturing plant move to Asia. I wandered through a Quintrex dealer a couple of weeks ago and they are nicely finished hulls but i really couldnt believe the prices for what is essentially a tinny.

I aggree they will probably move to asia. I reckon that will do nothing to the price though.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Nope - its all about getting motors on hulls- watch the manufacturing plant move to Asia. I wandered through a Quintrex dealer a couple of weeks ago and they are nicely finished hulls but i really couldnt believe the prices for what is essentially a tinny.

 

2 hours ago, blindmullet said:

I aggree they will probably move to asia. I reckon that will do nothing to the price though.

 

Its all well and good to look into your crystal ball and forecast a dark future.

but for the time being they are not manufactured in Asia, and there has been no evidence to suggest they will be manufactured in Asia, nor is there is any evidence that BRP or Telwater are even thinking about moving to Asia. 

Quintrex has been manufacturing boats locally for DECADES. Perhaps we should not sell them out so quick yeh?

@PaddyT you dont give the quintrex product enough credit. They are good reliable boats, constructed to a high quality here in Australia, and most of them last a lifetime. As such, they hold their value.

BTW - You will find the prices in Sydney are exorbitant because you know, companies that operate inside Sydney assume everyone is swimming in money.

I bought a new boat from QLD and paid $73.5k including doing the regos here in NSW myself. The same boat got quoted for $86K here in Sydney.

All warranty issues can be dealt with by my local dealer. HA!

 

Edited by GoingFishing
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Look I hope you are right but manufacturing aint exactly going well in Oz as a whole is it?If BRP can save 3K per hull by building them in China- they are going to do it end of story. They are a publicly listed company in Canada with shareholder obligations that they will be forced to meet. quinnies are OK quality wise but there are good hulls for lower prices available from quite a few of the "semi plate" builders ie TABS, Formosa etc, and sure we all pay the Sydney tax- would I pay 65K for a 5.8 M Quinnie bowrider- nope- I can buy a 2nd hand high quality US made glass center console for that money with a better level of finish and much better ride. Getting back to my original point the only reason engine makers buy boatbuilders is to have hulls to put motors on- Mercury had a long running strategy of this in the USA for many years (and I think they still do ), this ensures service and parts dollars for many years after the boat/motor package is sold. 

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23 minutes ago, PaddyT said:

Look I hope you are right but manufacturing aint exactly going well in Oz as a whole is it?If BRP can save 3K per hull by building them in China- they are going to do it end of story. They are a publicly listed company in Canada with shareholder obligations that they will be forced to meet. quinnies are OK quality wise but there are good hulls for lower prices available from quite a few of the "semi plate" builders ie TABS, Formosa etc, and sure we all pay the Sydney tax- would I pay 65K for a 5.8 M Quinnie bowrider- nope- I can buy a 2nd hand high quality US made glass center console for that money with a better level of finish and much better ride. Getting back to my original point the only reason engine makers buy boatbuilders is to have hulls to put motors on- Mercury had a long running strategy of this in the USA for many years (and I think they still do ), this ensures service and parts dollars for many years after the boat/motor package is sold. 

None of BRPs products are manufactured in Asia. All Evinrude Motors are manufactured in the Uniting States. 

The newly formed independent company, named Bombardier Recreational Products, included all the activities started 60 years earlier by its founder. BRP has manufacturing facilities in five countries: Canada, the United States (Wisconsin, Illinois, North Carolina and Arkansas), Mexico, Finland, and Austria. 

$65K might get you a second hand glass boat, but it will be at close to 10 years old at that price and is likely to need some more $$$ to get it into really good nick, and that's assuming your a glass boat fan, some people don't want glass boats.

"Value" can be subjective.

if you want to compare boats in similar "range" I bought a 6.2m yellowfin plate boat and my close mate bought a 6.2m Whitley and having driven both many times i can tell you the ride in my boat is a'lot more comfortable. The hull on my boat alone weighs some 200kg more (Which of course has a cost associated with pushing that weight, but thats a conscious decision)

Understandably a 6.2m Haines Hunter at almost double the price will certainly ride better than both due to its weight and hull design, but not everyone has that kind of money.

PS - Formosa have two ranges, a standard range and a fully plate range.

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21 minutes ago, GoingFishing said:

None of BRPs products are manufactured in Asia. All Evinrude Motors are manufactured in the Uniting States. 

The newly formed independent company, named Bombardier Recreational Products, included all the activities started 60 years earlier by its founder. BRP has manufacturing facilities in five countries: Canada, the United States (Wisconsin, Illinois, North Carolina and Arkansas), Mexico, Finland, and Austria. 

$65K might get you a second hand glass boat, but it will be at close to 10 years old at that price and is likely to need some more $$$ to get it into really good nick, and that's assuming your a glass boat fan, some people don't want glass boats.

"Value" can be subjective.

if you want to compare boats in similar "range" I bought a 6.2m yellowfin plate boat and my close mate bought a 6.2m Whitley and having driven both many times i can tell you the ride in my boat is a'lot more comfortable. The hull on my boat alone weighs some 200kg more (Which of course has a cost associated with pushing that weight, but thats a conscious decision)

Understandably a 6.2m Haines Hunter at almost double the price will certainly ride better than both due to its weight and hull design, but not everyone has that kind of money.

PS - Formosa have two ranges, a standard range and a fully plate range.

200kg of extra weight- im not suprised it rides better- Ride at sea comfort equation=weight X hull length. Anyway we will see what the future holds.

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Posted (edited)

A lot of manufacturing has gone back into the USA due to the post GFC impact on wages. As unemployment peaked and wages fell, the cost of transport, communication and potential IP theft weighed back into USA favour (for USA based companies) instead of China.

For Australian based companies the low wages of Asia including China have come with quality control and IP theft issues. 

I doubt there will be any radical changes made by BRP in the short term. 

The timing is interesting though, having just had our economic cycle peak and now moving into a downward cycle, boat and motor sales will no doubt slow too. 

BRP might have jumped in at the wrong time.

Edited by Ah Me Ting
typos
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On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:09 PM, GoingFishing said:

I bought a new boat from QLD and paid $73.5k including doing the regos here in NSW myself. The same boat got quoted for $86K here in Sydney.

All warranty issues can be dealt with by my local dealer. HA!

 

That's a huge saving, worth the effort for doing some towing & paperwork, well done!

Us Mexicans seem to pay so much more for everything unfortunately!! 

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Intreseting move for BRP. Isn't there a sales ban on new 2 stroke engines gonna be implemented in Australia in July?

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Yes, but  not engines like the e-tec, only carbs style non compliant motors will be no longer available, most manufacturers deleted their Direct injection 2 stroke models some time ago, only BRP is continuing manufacture of them

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, browncrab said:

Intreseting move for BRP. Isn't there a sales ban on new 2 stroke engines gonna be implemented in Australia in July?

Lol. The etec is one of the cleanest engines on the market....cleaner than alot of the new 4 strokes actually 

Edited by GoingFishing

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Speaking to a Etec sales Rep and he said BRP will most likely offer a 4 stroke engine option in the next 3 - 5 yrs depending on how sales continue.

they have a 4 stroke technology as it’s used in Snow Mobiles and Jets skis which are also held at high revs for long periods.

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Evinrude already manufacture 4 strokes my father in law has a 15hp evinrude 4 stroke. I didn’t believe him until we took the cowling off.

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Kind of interesting how their small HP engines are 4 strokes when once this was considered why people wanted 2 strokes because of weight issues, sort of proves that the weight difference is not what it was? plus I guess no one would buy a (say) 3.5HP e-tec, if they could build one, it would be too heavy, and too expensive, and the only way BRP can comply with pollution requirements was to use a 4 stroke like the competitors have.

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I want a Etec Jet engine, just to be different at the ramp

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4 hours ago, jeffb5.8 said:

I want a Etec Jet engine, just to be different at the ramp

Ud feel the difference at the ramp, at the throttle, at the bowser and anywhere else where it mattered 😎

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On 5/13/2019 at 11:58 AM, jeffb5.8 said:

I want a Etec Jet engine, just to be different at the ramp

How about a Viking longboat, replete with scantily clad members of the Australian women’s hockey team?

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simple as i think someone has said above .buy big boat manufactures like telwater in different countries so they can hang there own product on them. simple maths cheers dunc333

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On 5/11/2019 at 7:08 PM, jeffb5.8 said:

Speaking to a Etec sales Rep and he said BRP will most likely offer a 4 stroke engine option in the next 3 - 5 yrs depending on how sales continue.

they have a 4 stroke technology as it’s used in Snow Mobiles and Jets skis which are also held at high revs for long periods.

Coming from living in canada and the snowmobiling community, skidoo (BRP) had the worst reputation in the 2 stroke world anyway. It wasnt uncommon for someone to blow an engine in one season.  Thankfully most came with a 2 year warranty on the engine.  From seeing that first hand over there, and coming back here and reading about all their issues with 2 stroke marine engines ill steer clear for now.  8(  

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On 5/13/2019 at 11:58 AM, jeffb5.8 said:

I want a Etec Jet engine, just to be different at the ramp

I want an 800cc, 160hp 2 stroke snowmobile engine in my boat!!  Hows the power to weight?!?  

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Fishop - just as you ordered

 

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