Fuel additives...anybody use them?

[big Neil]

Thanks to everyone for contributing to the debate...much appreciated. I had heard that E10 fuel was not good for outboard motors so have always used unleaded fuel. Cheers, bn

[noelm]

2 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

I am yet to hear of a single outboard sold in Australia that is ethanol compatible. Happy to be corrected 

Practically everything produced for the last 5 years or so is Ethanol compatible, most even longer than 5 years.

[Fishop]

23 hours ago, noelm said:

Ring free makes no difference if you use E10, that's not what it's for, neither is stabil, stabil is for storage, nothing more nothing less.

This is just one of many conversations had regarding ethanol fuel.  I'm not saying it right this is just what I'm reading. 

[Fishop]

Also straight off the yamaha website,

 

http://maintenance.yamahaoutboards.com/fuel-fuel-system/

 

"what can I do to protect myself from the damaging effects of ethanol"  dot point 2 "add fuel stabiliser"  dot point 3 is "use ring free".

 

😂😂😂 

[Rebel]

Hi,

Just remember E10 has SUGAR. be aware.

Cheers.

[cfish]

Even unleaded can have a small percentage of ethanol these days, if there is a tiny bit of water in my tank you can see stabil dissolve it with your own eyes.

I have used Ringfree as well however it a cleaner /decarbonizer rather than a cure for water problems, you can this as a shock treatment like Seafoam if you want to risk being fined by the EPA. Fuels are designed for modern cars with plenty of additive so its probably a waste of money.

Edited August 24, 2019 by cfish

[GoingFishing]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:52 PM, noelm said:

Practically everything produced for the last 5 years or so is Ethanol compatible, most even longer than 5 years.

I would hardly call them ethanol compatible. The manufacturers seem to accept that ethanol free fuel might not be available in all places and therefore suggest the use expensive fuel additives to prevent (I say, slow down) damage.

But common sense should prevail???

Why use ethanol fuel if you have 91 octane ethanol free fuel available?? 

[big Neil]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:52 PM, noelm said:

Practically everything produced for the last 5 years or so is Ethanol compatible, most even longer than 5 years.

G'day Noel. My Yamaha 15HP is much older than 5 yrs and I have always run it on a mix of unleaded fuel and marine 2 stroke oil at a ratio of 100:1. I have a good mate who is an excellent Mechanic who tells me "never run E10 in your outboard". I never have. It's good to see so many Raiders contributing to the thread, obviously many are interested in their outboards continuing to keep them safe on the water. Cheers, bn

[noelm]

I agree, if you can avoid E10, then do so, especially for boats that might sit around for long periods, that said, most engines these days are Japanese, and Ethanol is a fact of life, fuel lines and other rubber bits and pieces are safe to use E10, the main problem is people using additives to clean, protect or prolong engine life and confuse what does what, and engine cleaner does not prolong fuel life, and fuel "stabiliser" is not intended to remove carbon, that's what I am getting at, most engine cleaners simply contain a derivative of Ethanol, as scary as that may seem, some are no more than a Kerosene base, Ethanol is not Sugar by the way. People can use what they like in their engine, it matters little to anyone but themselves, just be sure to use the correct product.

[kingie chaser]

When buying my Merc 25hp from new 9 years ago the guys at the shop gave me a run through.

I was told to only use premium 95 or 98 octane fuel, & I have for 9 years without any issues.

Personally I think fuel contamination starts more from where you buy it from in the 1st place!

 

I was also shown how to pull the fuel line off while the engine is running to ensure all the fuel is burned in the lines/bowl/filter etc, running the motor with the muffs on until it conks out, they even said pull the choke out when you feel the engine start to stall.

I have thought about using an additive for when my tank sits around half full as it does at times, probably the longest being about 8 months but then I have gone to the ramp in plenty of similar situations & it has started fine so never worried about using it.

I do also make sure the breather on the tank is closed off while in storage.

 

I know in many situations people don't have the option of doing what I do  with the bigger motors/boats so yeh I would consider it in those circumstances.

Edited August 26, 2019 by kingie chaser

[kingfishbig]

3 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

When buying my Merc 25hp from new 9 years ago the guys at the shop gave me a run through.

I was told to only use premium 95 or 98 octane fuel, & I have for 9 years without any issues.

Personally I think fuel contamination starts more from where you buy it from in the 1st place!

 

I was also shown how to pull the fuel line off while the engine is running to ensure all the fuel is burned in the lines/bowl/filter etc, running the motor with the muffs on until it conks out, they even said pull the choke out when you feel the engine start to stall.

I have thought about using an additive for when my tank sits around half full as it does at times, probably the longest being about 8 months but then I have gone to the ramp in plenty of similar situations & it has started fine so never worried about using it.

I do also make sure the breather on the tank is closed off while in storage.

 

I know in many situations people don't have the option of doing what I do  with the bigger motors/boats so yeh I would consider it in those circumstances.

There is nothing wrong with 91 ULP so long as it is ethanol free. Outboards don't have high enough compression to get any benefit from high octane fuels.

[kingie chaser]

55 minutes ago, kingfishbig said:

There is nothing wrong with 91 ULP so long as it is ethanol free.

I didn't say there was!

 

It was just a recommendation to me & I don't mind the small incremental cost even if it only helps fractionally.

 

I have read a few investitive stories & also seen some experiments on high octane petrol & agree they do more for high end performance engines.

 

Im happy to pay that knowing at least I will be getting what is probably a more cleaner burn in the long run 

 

Besides I go through about 75ltrs of fuel a year tops in my little tinny so $7.50 a year isn't going to break the bank 😉   

 

Not sure if its related but I've had my 25hp Mercury seapro for 9 years & haven't even changed the spark plugs yet!

[Fishop]

3 hours ago, kingfishbig said:

There is nothing wrong with 91 ULP so long as it is ethanol free. Outboards don't have high enough compression to get any benefit from high octane fuels.

The argument is that higher octane is cleaner fuel.  the fuel companys will openly say that their higher octane fuel has more cleaning agents etc etc just so you buy it.  Only way to tell if this is true or not is if you had say a catamaran and bought 2 new engines with separate fuel tanks and filled one with 98 and one with 91 and then opened them up after 1000 hours to see if there is any difference!

 

😄😄😄

Edited August 27, 2019 by Fishop

[GoingFishing]

6 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

 

Besides I go through about 75ltrs of fuel a year tops 

Living the dream ! I use an average of 20-25 litres on a bottom bashing trip and muchhhhhh more during summer when trolling outside.

[GoingFishing]

4 hours ago, Fishop said:

The argument is that higher octane is cleaner fuel.  the fuel companys will openly say that their higher octane fuel has more cleaning agents etc etc just so you buy it.  Only way to tell if this is true or not is if you had say a catamaran and bought 2 new engines with separate fuel tanks and filled one with 98 and one with 91 and then opened them up after 1000 hours to see if there is any difference!

 

😄😄😄

From Evinrudes website.

[GoingFishing]

12 hours ago, noelm said:

I agree, if you can avoid E10, then do so, especially for boats that might sit around for long periods, that said, most engines these days are Japanese, and Ethanol is a fact of life, fuel lines and other rubber bits and pieces are safe to use E10, the main problem is people using additives to clean, protect or prolong engine life and confuse what does what, and engine cleaner does not prolong fuel life, and fuel "stabiliser" is not intended to remove carbon, that's what I am getting at, most engine cleaners simply contain a derivative of Ethanol, as scary as that may seem, some are no more than a Kerosene base, Ethanol is not Sugar by the way. People can use what they like in their engine, it matters little to anyone but themselves, just be sure to use the correct product.

Screenshot from my 2017 model G2 operators guide.

Whilst they stop short of bluntly saying don't use ethanol fuels, they pretty much imply it don't they?

[Welster]

2 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

Screenshot from my 2017 model G2 operators guide.

Whilst they stop short of bluntly saying don't use ethanol fuels, they pretty much imply it don't they?

Kind of like saying put it in if you have no other choice and don't blame us when it goes pair shaped. 

[Fishop]

17 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

From Evinrudes website.

Looks like ill go back to 91 unleaded and save myself 18c/litre!!!   

 

Ive read that about the mandatory additives on other websites like racq and nrma and whatnot, but then other sites will say the complete opposite, so who do you believe!!!  So frustrating, the internet has made it so everyone has easy access to information and misinformation!!!

Our local fuel station is a caltex and their site specifically says that the higher octane has more and better additives, basically trying to convince you to pay the higher price.

[Welster]

2 hours ago, Fishop said:

Looks like ill go back to 91 unleaded and save myself 18c/litre!!!   

 

Ive read that about the mandatory additives on other websites like racq and nrma and whatnot, but then other sites will say the complete opposite, so who do you believe!!!  So frustrating, the internet has made it so everyone has easy access to information and misinformation!!!

Our local fuel station is a caltex and their site specifically says that the higher octane has more and better additives, basically trying to convince you to pay the higher price.

I only ever use 91 in my boat.

 

but when that site refers to the federal government rules are they US or Aussie rules. 

[GoingFishing]

1 hour ago, Welster said:

I only ever use 91 in my boat.

 

but when that site refers to the federal government rules are they US or Aussie rules. 

If you look at the image you will see I've lifted that off Evinrude Australian website. So that is relevant to AUS

[rozza_b]

i can tell you right now there is a massive difference between 91 & 98 ron, try running 91 in any performance car and you will see the difference instantly.

Personally i run 98 in my boat, the one time i ran a tank of 91 it played up like no tomorrow, was harder to start & didn't feel as punchy so just went back to 98, have had heaps of people tell me i cant run it in my boat as it will do damage to the motor but not one single person has been able to provide me with an answer as to why it shouldn't be used, i would be lucky to use $15 of fuel most trips so for the extra cost doesn't bother me for a bit of peice of mind, each to their own though.

In regards to stabilizers have considered using them due to the amount of time it takes to get through my 60l tank but haven't got round to it yet and still to see any issues from fuel.

[big Neil]

8 hours ago, rozza_b said:

i can tell you right now there is a massive difference between 91 & 98 ron, try running 91 in any performance car and you will see the difference instantly.

Personally i run 98 in my boat, the one time i ran a tank of 91 it played up like no tomorrow, was harder to start & didn't feel as punchy so just went back to 98, have had heaps of people tell me i cant run it in my boat as it will do damage to the motor but not one single person has been able to provide me with an answer as to why it shouldn't be used, i would be lucky to use $15 of fuel most trips so for the extra cost doesn't bother me for a bit of peice of mind, each to their own though.

In regards to stabilizers have considered using them due to the amount of time it takes to get through my 60l tank but haven't got round to it yet and still to see any issues from fuel.

Hi rozza-b. I think that we're all aware of the impact of putting 91 in a high-performance motor but it's a bit of a different issue the other way around. Whether there's a benefit, how much benefit is subjective. I think that we are all keen on the idea of feeling "safe" on the water when it comes to our motor getting us there and back. To that end, each of us does what we know works. The last paragraph is interesting though and leads me to wonder if the fuel really was a problem in my boat. It did start 1st time when I replaced the old stuff. I've pretty much resolved to try to use "fresh fuel" when I go fishing and use any residual stuff for the gardening motors. Thanks for your contribution to the thread. Cheers, bn

[big Neil]

On 8/27/2019 at 7:02 PM, GoingFishing said:

Living the dream ! I use an average of 20-25 litres on a bottom bashing trip and muchhhhhh more during summer when trolling outside.

Still, great value though to be able to get out there doing your thing. Much cheaper than a round of golf. LOL bn

[kingfishbig]

11 hours ago, rozza_b said:

i can tell you right now there is a massive difference between 91 & 98 ron, try running 91 in any performance car and you will see the difference instantly.

Personally i run 98 in my boat, the one time i ran a tank of 91 it played up like no tomorrow, was harder to start & didn't feel as punchy so just went back to 98, have had heaps of people tell me i cant run it in my boat as it will do damage to the motor but not one single person has been able to provide me with an answer as to why it shouldn't be used, i would be lucky to use $15 of fuel most trips so for the extra cost doesn't bother me for a bit of peice of mind, each to their own though.

In regards to stabilizers have considered using them due to the amount of time it takes to get through my 60l tank but haven't got round to it yet and still to see any issues from fuel.

It's already been pointed out that outboards are low compression engines so won't get any benefit from high octane fuels. Cars are another matter and some actually mandate high octane fuel.

I haven't head anyone say high octane fuel will damage an outboard motor - the only downside is that you will be wasting money. 

[GoingFishing]

13 hours ago, rozza_b said:

i can tell you right now there is a massive difference between 91 & 98 ron, try running 91 in any performance car and you will see the difference instantly.

Personally i run 98 in my boat, the one time i ran a tank of 91 it played up like no tomorrow, was harder to start & didn't feel as punchy so just went back to 98, have had heaps of people tell me i cant run it in my boat as it will do damage to the motor but not one single person has been able to provide me with an answer as to why it shouldn't be used, i would be lucky to use $15 of fuel most trips so for the extra cost doesn't bother me for a bit of peice of mind, each to their own though.

In regards to stabilizers have considered using them due to the amount of time it takes to get through my 60l tank but haven't got round to it yet and still to see any issues from fuel.

Consider us told !! But hang on... are we talking about car engines or boat outboards?

No one has suggested that high octane fuels cause damage to engines. Rather the discussion here is about the value add one would get by using those high octane fuels.

I dont know what make/model outboard you have, but for Evinrude they are designed in such a way that they burn low octane fuels. This is intentional to meet their carbon emissions targets. Putting high octane fuels in an Evinrude is like burning money, the engine is not designed to burn fuel over 91 octane and the unburnt fuel just comes out via the exhaust as soot.

So i can tell you....for me...high octane fuels have no value add whatsoever.