Places to find weed for Luderick in Sydney - New Beginner

[JamoDamo]

G'day everyone, I recently went down to Como on a nice little walk with my family. Anyways I saw this guy fishing on the jetty, being a keen fisherman and interested if he caught anything I went down said hello and asked him what he was fishing for and he told he was going for luderick. He and his family was there fishing off the jetty, I ended up asking him about it and he taught me some knowledge about blackfishing. He gave me a little go and the anticipation of the float going down was so addictive. I had so much fun and from that point on i'm hooked on it. Its so addictive and i'm itching to buy my own gear and get into it. My only problem is where can i get bait. He said there was this creek in Brighton that had a good supply of it but it is a trek and a half from my place and my dad probably couldn't be bothered to get up and take me. So i am just wondering if any of you guys would have any needed knowledge to pass down to me. I have seen the Blackfishing guide on this forum and thats gotten me started just itching to get into some fish. 

 

Thanks JamoDamo  

[JamoDamo]

He also told me to find some tips on here. This site has been my haven since year 7 bludging so that i could learn more off all of you guys thanks!

[DerekD]

Hi JamoDamo,

Firstly, welcome to Fishraider. Are you based anywhere near the ocean or river systems in Sydney?

I use the cabbage weed but I get it from the ocean rocks at the intertidal zone. I look for places where the weed will get flushed frequently with water but will not be continuously under water. Now if you can get down to your local FLOATING ferry wharf that waterline sometimes holds the same weed as it frequently gets hit with waves from boats going by. Quantities won't be great but you should find some.

I haven't found a good source for the stringy weed which is the other go to for luderick/blackfish but I understand that water outlets with a good source of nutrients are worth looking at.

Good luck,

Derek

Edited September 2, 2019 by DerekD

[JamoDamo]

Thanks mate, yes i am i live near the Georges river and there is a mud creek near my house approx 5-7 min walk. Good Muddies, flathead, bream and some monster bull mullet at least 55cm plus. I am near the Georges and Port hacking is a bit of a trek but it is accessible via car 30min drive. 

Thanks, JamoDamo

[JamoDamo]

I wonder if carss park has some luderick weed and cabbage...

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi JamoDamo I used to get a bit of weed and also soft 'sheet cabbage' from the drain and small inlet at Kelso Park on Henry Lawson Drive- this was a few years ago however, but in general, most small creeks and canals that flow through or past golf courses will have weed in varying lengths. As Derek said, most water outlets with nutrient enhanced water like golf courses, drains adjacent to parks and also ponds are likely places to check.

On the ocean front, most saltwater rock baths will have weed growth at different times, only problem is council rangers/workers poison it off due to it being a slipping hazard. Often a 'weed patch' will grow where sand and rock meet, but these spots don't last long due to being found by both the fish (they often eat it at night on the high tides) and also Luderick fisho's who prize this type of weed as it's both quality and keeps well.

If you find the really soft "sheet cabbage' which is found both on mud flats and in shallow creeks, often it is really fragile and tears- just use a multi-layered bait by placing a few  layers flat on top of each other 

Weed also grows well on logs, ropes, chains that are in the water, but again, if the fish can get at it, it usually isn't there long. Often just walking the shoreline of shallow bays with mudflats and a few mangrove trees will source you some, be prepared to get it when there's water on it as it's easier to grab

[JamoDamo]

My dad has a small bathtub pond with some type of weed growing in it its in freshwater but i am not sure if it is luderick weed. Will have a look i hope it is. Thanks so much guys appreciate the much needed info

[Green Hornet]

Freshwater weed will work as long as its not just slime. Golf course water hazards are often a good place to source some.

I'm not from Sydney, so don't know the area too well, but if you have trouble finding good weed I believe Mac's Bait at Blakehurst, just near Tom Uglys Bridge, often sells it. 

[Berleyguts]

You used to be able to sometimes find green weed in the drains at the back of Kelso Park on Henry Lawson Drive. Many years ago, I used to buy it at Mac’s Bait Bar at Tom Ugly’s. Also, consider trying weed flies. The work OK but berley will still help. Tip: fish down current of others using berley. 😉

[JamoDamo]

Can anyone recommend me a cheap 10 ft rod that could be used for blackfish? If so it would be really helpful.

 

[JamoDamo]

Also could i just buy the floats and split shots and size 8 hooks and not use a blackfish rod like one that is 6"

[Oscarthebeagle]

Hi

It was nice to meet you the other day, sorry I couldn't get you a fish but you at least got see how addictive watching the float was and a few half downs kept you interested.

You can use any rod, but you will find the longer rod helps with setting the hook and keeping the fish out of structure during the fight.

The rod you were using the other day is my extra rod that i have for my kids (the 35ish cm fish in the keeper bag had been caught by my 8 year old daughter) and non fishy friends to use and why i let a stranger have a go for 20mins.

It's a Jarvis Walker Aurora 8'6" Jimmy Crane Light Fishing Rod, cheap, nasty, tough, suitable for estuary Blackfishing and will get you started. A small threadline reel 1000-2500 size loaded with 3kg mono and 6lb fluro trace matches the rod.

A store with big W in it's name has them on special for $23 at the moment. If you decide you like Blackfishing you will upgrade it and at that price it's no loss if you don't keep blackfishing.

For your line, trace, floats, split shots, hooks and float stoppers go to a smaller tackle store to buy it and get them to help with the set up.

Pleased you listened to my best piece of advice, which was to get on Fishraider.

Unfortunately with 4 young kids my fishing trips are sporadic and normally spontaneous meaning i can't really organize to meet up for a fish.

Good luck with the quest and any questions ask away.

Ash    

[wazatherfisherman]

40 minutes ago, JamoDamo said:

Also could i just buy the floats and split shots and size 8 hooks and not use a blackfish rod like one that is 6"

You can use most lighter rated (2-3 kg) rods, particularly if they have a relatively soft action- meaning that the bend of the rod continues from the tip down about 2/3 rds of the rod length. However, there are several reasons why Blackfish rods are more of a 'specialty' item, length being important.

Firstly, for shore-based fishing for Blackfish, in most areas, you are drifting your float a reasonable distance from where you're standing. When the float dips under, you need to be able to gather your slack (floating) line quickly to strike the fish, this is more easily achieved with a longer rod- say 9 or 10 ft as a minimum. It's also easier to keep a true line between you and your float by using the rod to 'lift' your excess floating line back into a direct (straight) line, this also is much easier to do with the extra rod length.

Casting also is much easier when swinging a float and trailing rig and bait if you have the extra length.

Then the more important factor of playing the fish- as Blackfish are more of a 'lunge fighter' and not a distance runner (well, mainly), a longer soft rod acts as a 'shock absorber' the bending action of the rod (slow taper) is the main factor in subduing the fish. Most dedicated Blackfish rods are slow taper, some bending right down the rod to just above the front grip- for the most part you shouldn't be able to break 3 kg line through the rod, or certainly not easily. 

Don't want to discourage you by saying any of the above, but if you want to get into Blackfish fishing, then it is well worth saving your $ and getting some appropriate gear as you'll enjoy your fishing time much more. My first Blackfish rod was a 9 ft 3 piece solid fibreglass Jarvis Walker "Swansea" which would be considered as an extremely heavy rod to hold by today's standards, first reel a Steelite centrepin (which was very difficult to cast any distance with) yet caught me plenty of fish.

Just a tip with regards to weed, some freshwater weed works really well, especially if you make up a decent burley with it and damp sand. Sometimes you can turn the fish onto whatever weed you have with a small constant burley trail. The "better" weed, if you look closely at it's individual strands, is generally round at one end (the roots) and 'solid looking' then either flat stranded or hollow tubular (which becomes 'flat') at the opposite end. Very similar colour and texture to ocean cabbage, just finer. Undoubtedly others may disagree, but I've found that the darker filamentous weed is better than the light stuff.

In my opinion, the weed gathered from Mona Vale rock baths (I know it's miles from your area) is consistently among the best in Sydney and it's a very dark green colour.

When the fish are fussy or water clear, sometimes they will bite off the 'flat' section/s leaving the round 'root' section untouched. If you start getting downs and not getting hook-ups, remove the 'root' section from your bait.

Blackfishing is almost a sport within a sport- a great fish for Sydney fishers as they are available year round. There is heaps of great info here on Fishraider. Hope this is helpful, if you need any info you can't find just msg me.

Good fishing 

Regards Waza

[JamoDamo]

Thanks so much guys the tips from all of you is so helpful and i really appreciate it. Thanks Oscar for getting me interested in it , it was so much fun and i can't wait to try it out myself! My only problem is where to find bait within my general vicinity, a decent reel with the right line and swivels, hooks, split shots and most importantly the float! Are like jarvis walker floats good enough to use or should i buy from the local tackle shop? ( for me are also a trek) I've been researching it a lot watching tutorials and the like. Am i better off using braid, mono or that "float line" that i have heard all about. Also what about the leader, hooks and swivels. What sizes should i use for them and does the size of the float affect the fishing at all. I am thinking about going to Gunnamatta bay for some luderick as i saw so horses i reckon that were at least 38cm plus. Also do you think Gunnamatta would have a good supply of bait i hope so, but they great thing about that is that it is close to places with rock pools and places where the weed would grow ie Darook park which i have heard is good for squid although i do not have any jigs which i would like to invest in too! And then shelly beach with rock pools which i know has a healthy amount of good sized bream which you can get on prawns and nippers and worms ( all but worms and nippers i know how to find ). I think i'll never try rock fishing as it is too dangerous and i have no one who can mentor me through it and someone to keep me safe along with all the necessary safety gear like the rocks cleats and life jacket. If you could tell me some more spots for weed that are relatively close ie 30 minute drive that would be great also some decent spots to try but i suppose it is all trial and error as fishing is a sport that is like that. I know Captain Cook bridge on that little fishing wharf has some nice luderick and bream so maybe i might try there i remember to older block there fishing for them said there was a creek near captain cook that was plentiful with cabbage and weed! He said it was near some kind of big pole or post hmmm looks like a job for Google Earth. Anyways thanks for the help Oscar and all the guys who have given me a point in the right direction thanks!

Jamo Damo 

[JamoDamo]

Sorry for not making it in paragraphs making it easier to read for you guys as i know it will take some time

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi again to answer some of your questions- yes JWalker floats would be ok- make sure the entire body part of the float is under the water though, you only need enough float stem above water to see it- no body at all though as that creates too much resistance and the fish will likely let go of the bait.

Use mono not braid, the minimal or no stretch in braid will often pull hooks out and also reduces the shock absorption effect of the rod. If you aren't using a soft enough rod this will also happen. The extra stretch in mono is an advantage. To get your mono to float, simply soak a small piece of felt in vaseline, 'bend' it around your line between your fingers and pull about 15 mtr's of line off your reel through the felt- you'll see when there is a 'coating' on your line. Keep the piece of felt in a small tin or snapseal bag and leave in your fishing bag as often you'll need to re apply when out fishing.

Make sure you get vaseline off your fingers before touching your weed/cabbage.

Use the smallest size swivels- 12's or 14's, hooks size 8 or 9 for the river- most tackle sellers have purpose made green hooks for Blackfish- the "Panfish" variety (can't remember the brand) are good and have a small eye which is good if using soft cabbage/weed- the Mustad 'needle sneck' have a large eye- ok for weed. Generally almost all short shank hooks in size 8/9 will catch you fish.

Leader- 6lb is heavy enough for any Blackfish- you can use fluorocarbon which is harder for fish to see, but I prefer mono, it is better for doing the half hitches on your bait and much cheaper. Use lighter leader than main line so you only lose your hook if busted off/snagged.

The ocean rocks around Cronulla will have bait, be mindful of the sea and the slippery surface. Sounds like you have already got a couple of likely weed locations to try. 

 

 

[JamoDamo]

Thanks guys so much again, A few more questions again. So when i get the luderick and i am going to keep them should i kill the straight away by cutting the throat to the stomach or should i put them in a keep net to keep for when i kill  them? How would i make my landing net bigger? (before oscar told me at the wharf to get a paint pole extender for it and sure its the same size and then attach in). So i should get like 2-3kg main line and then 6lb fluorocarbon or mono (I think i'll go mono bc its cheaper) they say you want like 10-14-16lb mono main line. Is that too heavy although i do not think it would impact because all my rig would be under the float. Also i watched a luderick tutorial on youtube on how to rig a float on thehookandthecook channel and Scotty Lyons was rigging a float and teaching you how to get neutral buoyancy and he was using sheet lead to do so. He said he was using braid because he wanted to be "positive" to his float what does mean i assume it means like keeping in constant contact with your float? Anyways thanks again guys i'll be sure to put more questions down.

Thanks JamoDamo

[Berleyguts]

@JamoDamo Have a read of this thread:

 

[JamoDamo]

Thanks mate appreciate it

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi again- keep your fish alive in a keep net until you are going to clean them then just cut their throat across ways and put back in keep net or better still if there is a pool handy that they can't escape from, put them in there to bleed out, they will swim most of their blood out, which is what you want. Don't break their necks or they die before pumping the blood out. The reason you want the blood out is because a stress reaction with an adrenalin-like chemical the fish has, combined with a primarily vegetative diet results in a release of an iodine like substance, which goes through the bloodstream and can often result in poor or weedy tasting flesh- not always, but if it happens they aren't as tasty.

Oscarthebeagle gave you great advice on gear and landing net extension- the rod he suggested is also a good starting point, as he said not expensive should you decide Blackfish aren't for you.

As for main line 8-10 lb (4 kg) is plenty, the thicker your main line the more floatation (vaseline or similar) you need on it- just keep your leader (trace we always called it) slightly less strength than your main line, but Blackfish become less likely to bite on lines (whatever strength they are) over .2mm- which is just over 6lb in most decent lines. 

 I try to steer people that are new to Blackfishing towards Tortue Super -control- the green colour. Reason?- It is relatively inexpensive for a quality mono, has a long life (make sure you wash under the tap after use) has great abrasion resistant properties, is reasonably thin diameter and most importantly- half hitches really well. This last point becomes relevant the more baits you put on, some fluorocarbon lines don't half hitch very well and actually abraid themselves when doing half hitches- Tortue is great stuff (and I worked for a fishing line distributor years ago- not 'our' brand) and good value.

Although a lot of people seem to use braid, I strongly suggest you use mono- you can keep the same 'contact' with it.

[JamoDamo]

Thanks mate keep everything all you guys have said in mind. Is bread a good alternative bait to use if green weed and cabbage is scarce to find for me. I saw this video of this guy fishing for blackfish with no float no weight just three hooks in a paternoster type rig with a swivel connecting the main line to the rig. I have a decent out fit with 3-6kg line that might need some new line because i am running out due to snags..... If you could point me in the direction for a good line 2-4kg or 3-6kg that would be awesome. And thanks again for the great advice

[wazatherfisherman]

I stand by Tortue as the best mono- they sell it in 2,3,4,5,6,8 kg etc. Old stock went up in pounds from 3+half by 1 pound. Still using 6+half and 7+half main and 5+half, 6+half trace

[kingfishbig]

I like Maxima Ultra Green. It's supposed to have very low visibility in water. I can vouch for good knot strength, abrashion resistance and limpness. Here's their marketing blurb:

Maxima Ultragreen is virtually invisible to fish which means more strikes for you. This premium line has the unique ability to match the colour of surrounding water. Rays of light are absorbed rather than reflected presenting your lure or bait most naturally. MAXIMA keeps'em caught.

Ultragreen- though often attempted, no other manufacturer has duplicated the exclusive colour and characteristics of Maxima's Ultragreen. This line becomes virtually invisible under water. Ultragreen is also soft and limp, yet retains Maxima's legendary tough, high durability finish for excellent abrasion resistance.

Ultragreen is the best all-around line for a variety of freshwater and general saltwater fishing, spooling and casting well on spinning, baitcasting and larger conventional reels.

MAXIMA'S STANDARDS OF EXCELLENCE

Tensile Strength. Maxima's uniquely precise extrusion process and quality control are your guarantee of 100 percent consistency in tensile strength.

Knot Strength. Maxima's exclusive polymer formula maintains knot strength and prevents slippage. The unique hard-process finish keeps properly-tied knots from cutting into themselves.

Low Stretch. Maxima is engineered only with a hint of stretch and delivers power when it counts.

Abrasion Resistance. Maxima's special bonding of hydrocarbon molecules gives a tougher finish - for protection against nicks, cuts and chafing.

Limpness. A line that is too limp will stretch too much and absorb water. That's why we engineered Maxima with just the right amount of limpness.
 

Edited September 4, 2019 by kingfishbig

[JamoDamo]

Thanks might take a look at the maxima line. Oscar or any other of the other really helpful people am i better off getting the 8"6 rod or one of the larger variants of that rod. How much are alveys to buy as that might be a good idea for blackfishing as i can let more line out whilst drifting. Thanks!

[hookerbruce]

Oyster creek at the bridge on Bates Drive near Kareela shopping centre has some weed. I picked some up today to take up the coast next week. It’s a bit rough but will work just fine. Don’t forget to make up a bit of berley.

Sounds like Oscarthebeagle had a good teacher

bruce