Black drummer spots near Botany Bay

[eladamrine]

Hi, I have been lurking these forums and decided to post for the first time.

I want to try to catch a good sized (>1kg) black drummer. I have been trying at a couple of rock fishing spots in Kurnell (Doughboy Head, Potter Point, and Kamay National Park. Also tried Bare Island today) with no luck. I thought I'd check that there are Black drummer at these spots before I commit more time. Are there any good spots near Botany Bay (I live in Rockdale) that I might have more luck with?

Since I am here I should also check my gear, rig and strategy is right. I pretty much follow the advice from this video from The Hook and the Cook (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q6bQu6hs5A). I try to find a gutter with lots of whitewash, and use a bread burley every 5 mins. Then I cast towards the edge of the whitewash. 

I use peeled green prawns (from woolies) as bait on a size 1/0 baitholder hook. I use a running float on the main line, with stopper set to 2m. I use a size 1 ball sinker down to the hook. 

I use some budget fishing gear that I list below: 

- Shimano Aerocast 122 Surf Rod (12" 6-10KG)

- Daiwa C4000 Reel with 20lb mono (the video suggests 30lb, but this is what was already on the reel. Willing to change)

 

I have trouble getting big bites. A lot of times my bait will get picked off very quickly by smaller fish. 

I have seen a poster on this forum suggest Dobroyd Head as a good Drummer spot (https://www.fishraider.com.au/topic/89598-a-hook-size-for-both-luderick-and-drummer/?tab=comments#comment-660106). However, it is about a 50 min drive for me. It will be my next destination if there are no close spots. 

Thanks 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by eladamrine
changed name of float

[Koalaboi]

Hi,

Don't know your part of the world at all so, not really able to give specific locations.

Just the same, I have caught a lot of drummer over the last 40 years and I can tell you that if you have a spot that holds luderick, there's probably drummer there too.

Look for those rock platforms where the waves at high tide wash over patches of lettuce. If you target the spot where the wash returns to the ocean you'll find drummer, and blackfish and bream etc.

Keep trying different locations according to swell, wind, season and tide conditions and, after a while you'll know where to go to get a feed with some level of confidence at any particular time.

KB

[eladamrine]

Thanks KoalaBoi. I have caught some Luderick near Potters Point in Kurnell and they have the types of rock platforms that you mentioned. That gives me some confidence there might be Drummer there as well. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by eladamrine
changed name

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi eladamrine and welcome to Fishraider- it was me who posted the info on Dobroyd. It is a good spot to have a fish for Drummer- just make sure you have rock plates and a life jacket for anywhere rock fishing in Sydney.

Years ago, before it was declared a marine sanctuary, when Drummer fishing Dobroyd, we used to cut cunje on site and use it for bait, of course you can't take any now, so it's worthwhile sourcing some elsewhere and taking it anywhere you want to catch Drummer. Sure you'll get them on a variety of other baits like prawns (green and 'Royal Red') , crabs, bread etc, but if you aren't having any luck, go to the trouble of collecting some cunje. Take the firm red meat out- it has 2 'nipple-like' teats at the top, which is where you thread your hook through. Keep the 'guts'- the softer underside of lighter red and the yellow squishy part, along with the empty outer body for burley. Once separated from the guts, you can salt the cunje lightly with non-iodised salt, allow to 'toughen up' for a couple of hours, then freeze for when you are going fishing- it's by far the best bait for them (bar Abalone gut which has been banned due to the possible spreading of the Abalone virus) As you have discovered, just about everything eats prawns and although you get plenty of action with them, a lot of it is from unwanted species.

A couple of suggestions for you- if you are happy to use a float/bobby cork, then fish deeper than 2 mtr's- that way you'll avoid (well to a degree). the heaps of Sweep, Mado's and Yellowtail that abound in the top 2-3 mtr's of the water column. For example if fishing Dobroyd, which fishes best (for most species) at high tide, you'd want to set your bait down between 3 and 4.5 mtr's depending on which spot you choose (there are heaps of places to try there)- ideally you also want to be fishing about a mtr or so off the bottom to minimise unwanted bottom dwelling species like kelpfish.

There are just as many Drummer if you fish close-in along deep sections as there are in the white water zone, often people fishing the white water are throwing out past the fish- the larger ones are usually really close to the edge, particularly where there is a natural water 'run-off' from a cabbage/weed covered area- even more so if it's adjacent to a cunje covered spot, they are opportunist feeders just waiting for the run-off water to bring food from above over the edge. This also applies to Groper, which commonly "surf" a swell onto a low platform to search for crabs- I've seen plenty of large ones do it in quite a few different locations, they know how to get their food and get back off the ledge.

Also there is a variation of the bobby cork rig that works really well. Have your sinker above a swivel then about 50-60 cm's of leader down to your hook. Use slightly lighter line-say about 15 lb under your 20 lb line,, The bait still swings freely and if you get busted off or snagged, you generally only lose your hook or worst case your lighter leader. Also using the lighter line will result in more bites, once you start using line over 20 lb you'll get significantly less bites.

If you choose to fish for them without a float/cork, the easy rig is simply to run a size 0 to 1 ball sinker below a swivel running straight onto your hook- have always preferred a Mustad 92554 2/0- which is basically a double strength suicide (octopus pattern) like the "Big Red"- easily camouflaged in cunje. Keep the distance between hook and swivel at about 45 cm - that way you keep in good contact with your bait

Another tip is to use chicken layer pellets for burley- you can get them at produce stores and pet shops. You need to soak the pellets in a bucket of water until they mash up into a mud like consistency- DON'T throw them in until they've mashed up or the fish will gorge on them and not your bait! They are cheap to buy and can really get Black Drummer in a feeding frenzy- sometimes right in view.

If you are prepared to drive to the Royal National Park, there are heaps of places to catch them along the coast there as they are quite abundant. The rock platform at the southern end of Burning Palms beach is an excellent spot for them with most fish in the 1-1.5 kg range- not giants but plenty there. There is a deep gutter between the shore and the large rock outcrop at the north end of the platform, only fishable during flat seas on a falling tide. You fish 4 mtr's deep under your float and get your bait as close as possible to the land side of the outcrop. If you start getting unwanted species there just adjust your float a bit shallower- there is also heaps of cunje on location. It's not fishable from about halfway up an incoming tide as it is low to the water. By catch there are Bream and Luderick.

October is the month when Black Drummer (correct name Rock Blackfish) activity is at a peak, with spawning aggregations and large fish biting freely around Sydney, which is handy at a time when prevailing westerly winds help flatten the sea.

Hope this is useful info for you best of luck.

Regards Waza

[noelm]

Might also pay to "google" check using imported green prawns for bait, I find bread or cungie is the best Drummer bait, Prawns get eaten by every small fish around, I also prefer no sinker or float, or at best, a very tiny sinker, if fishing a new area, look for wash over deeper water, or even better, some rocks just offshore that have some wash over them, Drummer are good fun, and great eating.

[eladamrine]

Thanks for your replies Wazatherfisherman and noelm. 

@noelm I try to boil green prawns, I hear that kills the virus.

I will try gathering cungie. Do cungies grow in rivers and bays or only on ocean rocks? I live near botany bay so that would be the first place I look. 

I don't know how to look for deeper water. Is it related to looking at the pattern of the wash? 

@wazatherfisherman thanks for the detailed response. I'll probably print it so I can read it all. I just bought a lifejacket and attached rock plates to my shoes. The ocean scares me, so I wear them all the time when rock fishing.

I will look into getting cungie to use as bait. I want to ask how long would the cungie last in the freezer the salting technique? And what other fish might I encounter with cungie apart from drummer? 

I've heard what you say about having the hook 1m off the bottom of the sea floor. How do you judge the depth? Is it just trial and error and seeing at what depth you get snagged? 

Thanks for the tips about rig setup.  I'm excited to try out the spot you mentioned in the Royal National Park. Too bad it looks like bad conditions tomorrow or else I was going to head to the Royal National Park or Dobroyd Head. Looks like the East South swell will make both places dangerous. 

[wazatherfisherman]

3 hours ago, eladamrine said:

Thanks for your replies Wazatherfisherman and noelm. 

@noelm I try to boil green prawns, I hear that kills the virus.

I will try gathering cungie. Do cungies grow in rivers and bays or only on ocean rocks? I live near botany bay so that would be the first place I look. 

I don't know how to look for deeper water. Is it related to looking at the pattern of the wash? 

@wazatherfisherman thanks for the detailed response. I'll probably print it so I can read it all. I just bought a lifejacket and attached rock plates to my shoes. The ocean scares me, so I wear them all the time when rock fishing.

I will look into getting cungie to use as bait. I want to ask how long would the cungie last in the freezer the salting technique? And what other fish might I encounter with cungie apart from drummer? 

I've heard what you say about having the hook 1m off the bottom of the sea floor. How do you judge the depth? Is it just trial and error and seeing at what depth you get snagged? 

Thanks for the tips about rig setup.  I'm excited to try out the spot you mentioned in the Royal National Park. Too bad it looks like bad conditions tomorrow or else I was going to head to the Royal National Park or Dobroyd Head. Looks like the East South swell will make both places dangerous. 

G'day again- cunje grows on the ocean front mainly, but it's also growing in estuary systems close to the open ocean. Dobroyd area has plenty but you are no longer allowed to take anything (weed/cabbage included) from that area. It also grows really well on most of the marker buoys and large mooring structures in places like Sydney Harbour, but to get it you then need a boat. Adjacent to many rock platforms you will find it at low tide, but as it grows in the 'wash-zone' be mindful of the sea when collecting it.

Cunje lasts for a few months if you salt it, making sure to drain off all the water and seal in airtight containers. As mentioned, separate the 'meat' from the guts before freezing.

As for species, well, most demersal species eat cunje. Other than Drummer (Pigs as there known to most fishers) you'll encounter Bream, Tarwhine, Luderick (especially this time of year or at night) Groper, Leatherjackets, Parrot Fish, Wrasse and most fish that feed close to the shoreline. All these same species also take crabs (bar Luderick which don't have the teeth to deal with them) Cut sections of crabs (particularly Red Crabs) are also excellent bait.

To catch the Red Crabs, an easy way is to buy an 8 inch octopus skirt (the same ones on large trolling lures) and bind it on the end of about 4 ft of really thick wire- use strong wire that you can just manage to bend. Bend a bit around at the opposite end for a handle, and the legs of the skirt hanging off the other end. 

Find a couple of large tidal pools with crevices along them at or just below waterline and push the octopus skirt legs first into these crevices/cracks- any crabs will usually come racing out for you to grab. From trial and error, I found pink and white skirts are the best, especially if you can get them with blue dots/stripes across the pink.

Be mindful of the sea as it's easy to get distracted when getting bait. Check also you are not in any sanctuary zone or intertidal protected area. I think the bag limit is 10 crabs for bait. 

Once you have them, use a knife to lift the top shell off from the back-to-front. Then cut the legs off parallel to the body- IMPORTANT-Don't break the legs off, cut them or you pull the meat out and ruin the bait.  A crab the size of a 50c coin  can be cut into 4 sections- thread either 1 or 2 legs on over the hook shank then the quartered section. If crabs are really small or scarce you can use a whole crab but beware as Groper including giant ones also love crab done like this.

As for 'deeper' water, if you can't make out anything on the bottom, that is 'deeper' water! Dobroyd area is under 6 mtr's deep. Easy way to check depth over the edge is just tie a sinker on and drop it over! Most quality fish that are feeding/looking for feed are generally about 3-5 mtr's under (unless in the shallow washy zone)

The spot at Burning Palms is only fishable during flat seas and the lower parts of the tide as although there is a large rock outcrop in front of you, there is a small natural wave break that sends a wave towards you- if you fish it during times of no swell- generally associated with a westerly airflow- towards low tide you should be fine- you can tell from the headland before you make the descent to beach level if is ok to fish there.

That platform is called "Oyster"- there are quite a few really small oysters. The actual spot is called "The Tablet". There is a higher spot to the right known as "Tiny Blowhole" (the blowhole is about the size of a tennis ball!)- From there you cast southeast over the visible kelp patches for Drummer, Bream, Luderick. It is most known for producing outsize Tailor- not many, but large ones. From there, you can walk south about 15 mins to the famous Figure Eight pools platform,, sand bottom and good general spot. The bay between the 2 platforms is shallow, boulder strewn, with several small platforms that are good to fish but you need a spray jacket as waves constantly break close by sending big spray over the rocks- good shallow water bobby cork area for Drummer and big Bream but difficult to fish. If you do go as far as the Eights platform it's worth a look and a swim when the sea is calm

Hope you find this helpful, good luck if you go

Regards Waza