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Hey raiders

So I want a light weight fishing combo (preferably Shimano but doesn’t have to be) suitable for throwing lures off the rocks and catching some kingies. I don’t really have a price range.

any suggestions?

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Hi Will,

The problem with fishing off the rocks is not just hooking and fighting the fish it is landing them. I was using a Shimano raider snapper 762 (15-45gm lure weight) a 4000 Shimano Stradic c/w 15lb braid and 30lb leader. I ended up dead lifting a couple of kings. I prefer a shorter rod than some of the other people off the rocks as I try and get a lot of lure movement with the sluggo/slapstix lures I like using and I struggle to achieve this with the longer rods. I do lose a bit of casting distance.

I also picked up a Daiwa Saltist Hyper 7ft PE3/5 (60-120gm lure weight) and matched it with a Daiwa BG5000 and a fine 50lb braid. The reel I can switch between that rod and the 9 foot 6 Saltist Hyper I also own if I want that extra bit of distance.

Good luck.

Derek

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1 hour ago, DerekD said:

Hi Will,

The problem with fishing off the rocks is not just hooking and fighting the fish it is landing them. I was using a Shimano raider snapper 762 (15-45gm lure weight) a 4000 Shimano Stradic c/w 15lb braid and 30lb leader. I ended up dead lifting a couple of kings. I prefer a shorter rod than some of the other people off the rocks as I try and get a lot of lure movement with the sluggo/slapstix lures I like using and I struggle to achieve this with the longer rods. I do lose a bit of casting distance.

I also picked up a Daiwa Saltist Hyper 7ft PE3/5 (60-120gm lure weight) and matched it with a Daiwa BG5000 and a fine 50lb braid. The reel I can switch between that rod and the 9 foot 6 Saltist Hyper I also own if I want that extra bit of distance.

Good luck.

Derek

Thanks Derek for the reply. Btw I use a 2m Gaff which pretty much handles all fish I catch.

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do you want a specific light combo for kingys like 1-3/2-4 etc or do you mean physical weight of rod and reel??

??

Edited by Squ!rt

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hey mate I use a 9ft starlo stik with an spheros 8000 reel yet to get a king off the stones but I have got heaps of salmon n tailor using 60g metal lures

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3 hours ago, Squ!rt said:

do you want a specific light combo for kingys like 1-3/2-4 etc or do you mean physical weight of rod and reel??

??

Hey mate, I meant physical weight of the rod and reel. Going to target other species like salmon, tailor, bluefish etc. sorry for the confusion 🙃

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Off the ocean rocks you simply are not going to get one rod to do the lot- also a 2m gaff is next to useless. im going to give you a bit of a tutorial here based on 30 odd years of chucking metal off the stones. 1. Different rock platforms have different requirments, around Sydney a good allrounder is a 10 ft rod that has a moderatly light tip and a lot of backbone for lifting down low- its really hard to gaff a fish lighter than 5 kgs off the rocks so you need to be able to lift (using momentum not just brute force) any fish up to that weight- if you fish alone gaffing is damn hard with any fish off the rocks.2. cheap graphite is a bit fragile-banging it around the rocks is a bad idea. I used a good old FSU4120 for ever and it caught everything from tailor to longtails. 3. Length of rod can be very important for safety, saving you from loosing lures , for casting and finally for landing more hooked fish. An example is two different well known rock platforms- Avoca-smooth sandstone dropping straight down- for fun i used to spin up rat kings, bonnies , frigates etc using a 6 ft flickstick on 6lb line and becuase you could get the rod tip out and above the fish it was very rare to loose one-North Whale-higher ledge with close in reef- very hard to land a king above 5 kgs because all they had to do was swim the wrong way and cut you off, 10 ft rod, use lots of side pressure and try and fight the fish out wider, also the main hookup point there was 40m out along a reef drop off- used to land a few good ones their mainly on poppers and skipped gar by using a 12ft rod and keeping their heads out of the water - if they crashdived it was all over very quickly.Some food for thought

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4 minutes ago, rickmarlin62 said:

Hope your not chasing bluefish  they are protected species

mind you Rick if he can find one he'd be up their in the "ächieving a minor miracle"" catagory-

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Naaah i know where theres heaps of them  they rat my snapper baits sometimes in the wash    beautiful fish   ive released bout a dozen last couple of yrs   accidental captures  not targeted

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Cool, personally never seen one other than photos.

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13 hours ago, rickmarlin62 said:

Naaah i know where theres heaps of them  they rat my snapper baits sometimes in the wash    beautiful fish   ive released bout a dozen last couple of yrs   accidental captures  not targeted

Rick I have not caught any, I thought you are allow to catch them via fishing rod and reel but not take them while spearfishing

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15 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Off the ocean rocks you simply are not going to get one rod to do the lot- also a 2m gaff is next to useless. im going to give you a bit of a tutorial here based on 30 odd years of chucking metal off the stones. 1. Different rock platforms have different requirments, around Sydney a good allrounder is a 10 ft rod that has a moderatly light tip and a lot of backbone for lifting down low- its really hard to gaff a fish lighter than 5 kgs off the rocks so you need to be able to lift (using momentum not just brute force) any fish up to that weight- if you fish alone gaffing is damn hard with any fish off the rocks.2. cheap graphite is a bit fragile-banging it around the rocks is a bad idea. I used a good old FSU4120 for ever and it caught everything from tailor to longtails. 3. Length of rod can be very important for safety, saving you from loosing lures , for casting and finally for landing more hooked fish. An example is two different well known rock platforms- Avoca-smooth sandstone dropping straight down- for fun i used to spin up rat kings, bonnies , frigates etc using a 6 ft flickstick on 6lb line and becuase you could get the rod tip out and above the fish it was very rare to loose one-North Whale-higher ledge with close in reef- very hard to land a king above 5 kgs because all they had to do was swim the wrong way and cut you off, 10 ft rod, use lots of side pressure and try and fight the fish out wider, also the main hookup point there was 40m out along a reef drop off- used to land a few good ones their mainly on poppers and skipped gar by using a 12ft rod and keeping their heads out of the water - if they crashdived it was all over very quickly.Some food for thought

Thanks paddy. I fish with a buddy and yes the gaff doesn't handle everything. I currently use a 7 ft rod with a silstar spinning reel and throw 20 to 40g metals. As you can tell this is why I am looking to buy a new rod and reel. 

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14 hours ago, rickmarlin62 said:

Hope your not chasing bluefish  they are protected species

Hey Rick. The bluefish is a protected species sorry about the confusion, I call a different type of fish 'blue fish' 

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56 minutes ago, marks1984 said:

Rick I have not caught any, I thought you are allow to catch them via fishing rod and reel but not take them while spearfishing

You could be thinking of a Blue Groper which you can catch by line but its illegal to spearfish.

Or Tailor are called Bluefish, more of a American term though, you can catch them on line and Spearfish.

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On 10/10/2019 at 12:36 PM, DerekD said:

Hi Will,

The problem with fishing off the rocks is not just hooking and fighting the fish it is landing them. I was using a Shimano raider snapper 762 (15-45gm lure weight) a 4000 Shimano Stradic c/w 15lb braid and 30lb leader. I ended up dead lifting a couple of kings. I prefer a shorter rod than some of the other people off the rocks as I try and get a lot of lure movement with the sluggo/slapstix lures I like using and I struggle to achieve this with the longer rods. I do lose a bit of casting distance.

I also picked up a Daiwa Saltist Hyper 7ft PE3/5 (60-120gm lure weight) and matched it with a Daiwa BG5000 and a fine 50lb braid. The reel I can switch between that rod and the 9 foot 6 Saltist Hyper I also own if I want that extra bit of distance.

Good luck.

Derek

Hey Derek,  

The Shimano raider snapper 762 (15-45gm lure weight) a 4000 Shimano Stradic c/w 15lb braid , would that be suitable to upgrade the main line on the reel to 20lb?

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Hi Will,

The rod rating on that is 5-8kg. You could probably up it to 20lb but it depends then on how you fight the fish and a couple of other factors. Let me explain.

General consensus is not all braids are the same. I have two different lines rated at 80lbs. One is a Fins braid and the other is a Japanese YKG. The difference is diameters and handling is very noticeable. The other issue is that some companies under rate the braid (probably to allow for losses when people tie knots). That 20lb braid could be breaking at 30lbs or even more. The rod and fittings have been set up for 8kg and probably a safety margin. One of my mates straightened the guides on his rod because he used line on his rod double what the rod rating was. You can get away with this if you fight with the rod pointed more directly at the fish as the load runs back to the reel with a lot less strain on the guides. You still want some bend in the rod to take the shock loading but you are not high sticking or putting stupid strain on the runners.

My mum gave me the series 1 Raider Snapper over a decade ago as a birthday present. I've fished it hard and it is still going strong. Having said that I've recently been trying out two rods in the Atomic Arrowz range. I almost bought another one the other week. Based on your question there is one in the series I think you should look at. In 2 piece the model is the AAS-270H. It is 7 foot spin rated for 14-30lb line and 10-50g lures. They also do it in a one piece (drop the 2 in 270 model number). I came so very close to buying it but didn't need it and not ready to retire the Raider Snapper. look at Frogley's offshore to check the technical specs. Worthwhile picking one up to check the feel but also check in with Dinga to see if they have them (and hopefully at an excellent price as usual).

I was fishing off the rocks last week with another Fishraider who uses a longer rod with 10lb braid which can really get the light lures out there. He and the guy next to him hook up about the same time. Guy next to him gets a small bonito. Mate takes a bit longer but surprised at the fight the bonito was putting up. Turned out to be a 71cm king which played nicely this time. Didn't go back in the water.

Just some more things to think about and make your decision a little more difficult. :1prop:

Regards,

Derek

BTW - I'm not a fan of having leader knots running through the guides. If you can feel it passing through then there is the risk of damaging guides/rods. I run a leader of maximum about 1m depending on the length of rod I am using. Just something to think about when you get your setup and as you get involved in those frequent cast and rip it back sessions. Yes I can tie an FG knot but I still don't want it ripping through the guides at speed.

Edited by DerekD
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As i said before its all about terrain, a 2m gaff is next to useless- get a 14ft (4.5m) gaff, gaffing fish lighter than 5kg is a PITA and unnessisary if you have the right rod. Until braid came along (and for many years after )most of the fish i spun up of the rocks were on 25lb Tortue , no leader, no double- dont overcomplicate things.

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Thanks for the Info guys, very interesting.

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On 10/10/2019 at 8:47 PM, rickmarlin62 said:

Naaah i know where theres heaps of them  they rat my snapper baits sometimes in the wash    beautiful fish   ive released bout a dozen last couple of yrs   accidental captures  not targeted

Bluefish... are they the ones you get on Lord Howe Island?

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On 10/10/2019 at 8:47 PM, rickmarlin62 said:

Naaah i know where theres heaps of them  they rat my snapper baits sometimes in the wash    beautiful fish   ive released bout a dozen last couple of yrs   accidental captures  not targeted

What are bluefish?

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Yep same  close relative to black drummer   but blue with gold flecks in the scales

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On 10/10/2019 at 12:36 PM, DerekD said:

Hi Will,

The problem with fishing off the rocks is not just hooking and fighting the fish it is landing them. I was using a Shimano raider snapper 762 (15-45gm lure weight) a 4000 Shimano Stradic c/w 15lb braid and 30lb leader. I ended up dead lifting a couple of kings. I prefer a shorter rod than some of the other people off the rocks as I try and get a lot of lure movement with the sluggo/slapstix lures I like using and I struggle to achieve this with the longer rods. I do lose a bit of casting distance.

I also picked up a Daiwa Saltist Hyper 7ft PE3/5 (60-120gm lure weight) and matched it with a Daiwa BG5000 and a fine 50lb braid. The reel I can switch between that rod and the 9 foot 6 Saltist Hyper I also own if I want that extra bit of distance.

Good luck.

Derek

Hi, I prefer to use a shorter rod as well. I find it lighter and easier to control the lure and give it a more realistic action. Hope you don’t mind Derek but I think I’ve made my mind up and think I’m going to go with the raider snapper rod and the Stradic 4000. Does anyone have any lure recommendations to use off the rocks in and around Sydney with this setup (15-45g lure weight).

Will 

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4 hours ago, Will Wright said:

Hope you don’t mind Derek but I think I’ve made my mind up and think I’m going to go with the raider snapper rod and the Stradic 4000.

Mind??? Not at all. I've recommended the Snapper Raider and the smaller Bream Finesse to a number of people over the years and coincidently today. If I damaged mine I'd probably buy another. It is an excellent combination. If you ever get down to the lower North shore I'd be happy to show you how effectively it can be used for a variety of lures. With the schools of kingfish due to arrive in numbers in Sydney over the next two months your timing is excellent.

Yes I do have some recommendations. My go to for kings are the 6 and 9 inch (pink or white) slapstix used with a TT bullet head jig head and XH hook. 20 and 30gm halco twisties. Phatt blatz flutter jigs. Size 3 squid jigs. More later. We also do well send down stripped squid pieces unweighted through the water column. I like either a 5/0 mustad light gauge circle hook or a Gamakatsu 5/0 or 6/0 circle hook.

Edited by DerekD
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